Parenting and stupidity Options

[Pikasyuu]

This is purely moddy and in no way has anything to do with the topic:

Izzy. If I have to correct one more swear word in your posts, I will warn you. I have had to edit at least six or seven of them despite rarely even being around. A second thing to keep in mind is that there is a rule on these forums that basically requests that you do not be stubborn - that means, don't ignore another person's argument to simply repeat what you have argued in more blunt terms or use an argument so outrageous that it makes no sense. You haven't completely broken this rule, but based on the religion thread and the drug legalization thread, you're getting close enough for me to remind you.

On topic:

"Needless suffering, extremists, genocide, racism, et al exist anyway, a reason more or less for someone to be one will make little difference."

Doesn't this totally nullify your vendetta against religion? You went from foaming at the mouth hating them to saying 'Oh well, all these bad things exist anyway, it doesn't matter if another bad thing exists/supports it!' Since you consider religion such a terrible, world destroying thing, why don't you assume that's just the other bad thing and apply the same blase attitude?

[voices_in_my_hea...]

Oookay. I Will go back and read the entire thread in a bit, but for now I'm just going to type out my thoughts on the whole thing.

What qualifies the mother here as "stupid"?
My mother never graduated High School - in fact, she dropped out early in her Sophomore year. She is an extremely slow reader, has bad math skills, and basically lacks all general terms of "smart". however she is an excellent mother - there has never been a time in my life that she has not been there for me, she has never caused me harm and is, in all honesty, someone i would consider a personal hero of mine.
On the other side of things, My father graduated #2 in his entire class, has a broad knowledge of science, math, and history, and meets all general standards of being brilliant. However, (though, if you don't mind, I don't care to go into it) he is NOT a good parent.
My point being this - your intelligence has no correlation to your parenting skill. A person could have an IQ score of 190 and still lack the capability to show a child the love and support they need.

I guess the whole story struck a personal chord with me, so sorry for the ranting.

[Pikasyuu]

I don't think the argument towards preventing 'stupid' people from reproducing has anything to do with parenting skill, it's because something to the effect of a master race is being suggested.

..I wonder if anyone else in history has tried to create a master race..

[Yannick]

Syuu, if you'd actually been reading my posts, you'd realize I was responding to everyone individually. Things are bound to be repeated (though I wasn't even repeating myself that much?) because for one, I'm saying it to different people, and secondly, if my point is being ignored/disregarded the first time, yeah, I'm going to raise it again. Just because my arguments don't make sense to you, doesn't mean they are off-topic or against the rules. An argument, however 'outrageous', still makes a (not necessarily valid) point whether you like it or not. I've seen stranger posts than the ones I've made (not necessarily on this forum because I can't think of any specifics, but on ones with similar rules), so, just because you are totally against what someone else is saying, doesn't mean you can pull the rules on them. Especially when I'm not even breaking them.

On topicish: I'm withdrawing from this discussion. We disagree and will continue to disagree. If I can't speak my mind without being called on it, I don't see the point. Peace.

[voices_in_my_hea...]

I don't think the argument towards preventing 'stupid' people from reproducing has anything to do with parenting skill, it's because something to the effect of a master race is being suggested.

Ah, I assumed the child was being taken away because there was doubt on her skill as a mother.

On the topic of the "stupid breeds stupid" train of thought, though -
(sorry if I'm repeating anyone here! I have serious issues reading large blocks of text at a time online so not all responses were read, my apoligies)
Even with genes that are more easily defined - such as blue eyes or black hair, just because both parents posses that trait doesn't mean the child will have it. My grandfather has bright red hair and grey eyes, while no one else in his family as far back as they could trace had either. In my opinion, intelligence is something that just can't be tracked. Along with not being able to measure it, I just don't see any way of tracing the passing of the "stupid gene" (Assuming there is one, which I kind of doubt) from person to person anyway. I know many couples who are both extremely smart who've had some of the most idiotic children in the state, and vise versa.

Sigh. I always feel like I'm rambling. Please, stop me if I'm not making any sense.

[Pikasyuu]

Syuu, if you'd actually been reading my posts, you'd realize I was responding to everyone individually. Things are bound to be repeated (though I wasn't even repeating myself that much?) because for one, I'm saying it to different people, and secondly, if my point is being ignored/disregarded the first time, yeah, I'm going to raise it again. Just because my arguments don't make sense to you, doesn't mean they are off-topic or against the rules. An argument, however 'outrageous', still makes a (not necessarily valid) point whether you like it or not. I've seen stranger posts than the ones I've made (not necessarily on this forum because I can't think of any specifics, but on ones with similar rules), so, just because you are totally against what someone else is saying, doesn't mean you can pull the rules on them. Especially when I'm not even breaking them.

I did read your posts, actually - all of them. It wasn't that the argument didn't make sense to me and I decided to go 'wah wah I disagree with Izzy I am going to pull rules on her!' Oh please. If I pulled rules on everyone I disagreed with, I'd be on here 24/7 spamming the warn button, so you can let go of the idea that you're being picked on for what you believe. Please refer to the rules page and read what is actually written under the rule 'Don't Be Stubborn'. If you had bothered to read my post, I said you were getting close enough for me to say something. That tailed onto your original infraction of constant swearing, which, frankly, is getting old. Since I didn't warn you in the first place as much as remind you of something, I see absolutely no reason to get up in arms and decide that this has to do with my disagreement (which, don't worry, exists!) to your posts. Note the very first thing in your reminder that says 'This has nothing to do with the current discussion' and 'based on (other thread here) in addition to (other thread here)'. An example of this, for instance, is using the argument 'I will at this point in time in the future be absolutely successful no matter what. I have no way of proving this or backing it up aside from implying I am superior to all those that have failed in trying to achieve their goals, but I am right and therefore this is valid.' If you have anything else to say about this, PM me.

[gothictheysay]

Basically, Izzy, you're outlining a form of Social Darwinism. Which, frankly, disgusts me. It's all fine and good if you've withdrawn from the discussion - I withdrew from reading posts halfway through. But the original case posted baffles me, and it also baffles me how someone in this day and age could ever seriously believe we should stop "stupid" people from having children. Have I ever said something like "I hope so-and-so doesn't breed, because they're stupid/mean/etc"? Yes, I have. But I would never take steps to actually prevent that person from doing it. That would be hateful. I respect the human race enough not to push an agenda as horrible and hateful as sterilization on them. It scares me that you seriously want it to happen.