Music Programs Options

[tptcow]

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Why do schools have to shut down their music and chemistry programs?

I whish there were some sort of movement to stop this nosense. Perhaps on the level of the civil rights movement in the U. S. would do nicely.

[Laramon]

I'm all for keeping chemistry and music programs in schools. I've always been a promoter of cutting spending on sports to give to the arts. Building teams is good, but at what cost?

[depressed lonely...]

yeah the amout of time and money spent on sport is obsene at my X-high school we had assembly of which 40 minutes was spent on sport 5 on teachers ranting about drugs, sex and not wearing our uniforms with pride and if there was time they told us about the students that had made academic aceivements as everyone was either geting their lunch out of their bags or heading for the door.

another such incident was at my primary school when we did fund raising for a gift to the school. the things we were in budget for were (a a school kiln (b new sound equipment for the auditorium or (c sport stuff balls,bats,sticks,pads what do you think was bought

[CommieBastard]

Sports annoys me. It feels like a waste of tax money. Okay, there should be some, but it should not get a higher priority than actual education. Which, I wonder, would we rather have - a nation of educated citizens, or a nation of ignorant athletes?

[Laramon]

Current situation:
Large portion of healthy, athletic, poorly-educated citizens
miniscule portion of educated, semi-athletic citizens
Large portion of unmotivated, mixed education people with generally low health

What it could be:
Decently educated people with good general health and moderately athletic.

All we would really need to do is reprioritize education. We NEED an athletic curriculum in schools that motivate people to learn and be active.

When I was growing up, I cared not about Phys Ed. It was all about performance, not about sportsmanship or being healthy or anything else, really. They talked about health, yadda yadda, but I didn't believe it; I don't think anyone in my classes really did either. We were young and healthy and in our minds would stay that way. I was wrong and living the consequences as we speak and will until I die.

The point is that I saw Phys Ed as a competition, not as a learning experience, and was uninterested in it. I did not join sports until much older because they reflected the same things that phys ed did for the most part.

Long story short, I pursued education, and neglected my health. It could have been avoided with a little restructuring of curriculum and money.

[gothictheysay]

Sad, isn't it?

Especially how music programs are hurriedly the first to be cut. I'd say 75% of the people I know are involved in music. Why aren't some sports cut instead of music programs? I don't know. What's also depressing is how people around here aren't willing to vote in a tax raise for their children's schools. They're willing to have the kids, but not willing to pay for music programs and sports - middle schools around our area haven't been able to fund these programs because the parents won't vote to pay the taxes they need. Consequently, they're cut.

Illinois is the only state (I believe, but I haven't checked. That's straight out of a P.E. teacher's mouth) that requires Physical Education all four years of high school, daily. That's nice. But I think you only need three years of math to graduate. Now it looks a bit lopsided... not to knock the benefits of P.E. at all, but compare...

[elphaba2]

NY requires four years, but it's every other day gym. They actually just passed this new rubric for it, where we're graded on a multitude of things, like "knowledge of activity" and "capibility of supressing emotions and passions". It's insane. I'd dig it out and scan it in, simply because it's full of misspellings and ridiculous rules, but I'm far too lazy and I might have ritualistically burned it.

(example of a ridiculous rule)
Even if we have a legal absence, we get graded off; so, in essence, we get punished for being sick, or having a guidence counseler meeting, etc.

What makes it worse is that they've cut funding for the music program, so the school instruments (the large things, like tubas, cellos and basses) are in terrible condition, and the room in which people keep their instruments during the day has no heat. Anyone who plays an instrument knows that radical temperatures are absolute murder, but the school board determined that putting in heat would be too expensive. Meanwhile we have a shiny new gym and nice big fields they're trying to raise money to replace with turf, because it's easier to play football on. I think there are some mixed-up priorities they need to take a look at.

[artist.unknown]

I'm in the same boat as elphaba, just a bit southerly. Here, I have to spend four years learning how to hit a white ball back and forth over a net, but only two years of history and half a year of the arts in order to graduate. Because, you know, volleyball is a major life skill. It will also surely save me from obesity. And it's not like being well-rounded or well-educated is nearly as important. Gah.

The administration tried to kill our exchange program, meaning I wouldn't be able to live in Germany next year. They claimed it's distruptive to my education (and also makes work for them). I'm sorry, at what point was education limited to a single, windowless building? I'm curious.

Our football field's got lights. The players get their own bus and new uniforms every year. My German textbook, meanwhile, lost its binding somewhere around ten years ago, no art supplies were ordered for the art rooms, and I've had to help friends duck tape their instruments to-gether. And in the meantime there's a proposal for 30,000 dollar astroturf. Come again?

[markslut]

I do know there is no love lost between Chemistry and Physics at Exeter as one of my best friends is a Physics postgrad at Exeter.

My Boss's son has managed to get an offer from Plymouth as he was on a defered place on a chemistry course at Exeter.

As far as I know nothing has been cut from the Slone Infested AU

Sloanes are very powerfull at Exeter as whoever wrote the poster '101 ways to kill a Sloane' poster found out.

*Sloane = Rich public school student, usually with family in high places, often with an attitude problem. Some of them even own Porches!

[Asenyth]

I must say it is a shame when schools have to cut arts programs like music, theater, and physical art. And it is really easy to say, being an artist or having friends who are artists or hating sports, to cut some money from football or something. That would be wonderful, but the programs that make more money get the priority of who the money is alloted to. Sports subsist on their own, not to mention also provide money for other programs like the arts. Without the sports, there would be no costumes for the school play or paper on which to draw on. When the sports make less money, then there is going to be less paint bought for Impressionism 101. We cannot forget that this is a capitalist society driven by wealth and greed. It is pretty sad that schools are making money off of these kids anyways, but in order to keep these programs from being cut, you and your parents are going to have to pay more taxes, ticket prices are going to have to be instated or raised. There will have to be fundraisers. It's the only way. It's kind of like if you worked and you got a dollar and you wanted to buy a candy bar and then I walk up to you and I demand that you must give me your candy bar or your dollar because I don't have a dollar. That isn't fair. That is like what you are saying when you want to cut sports for arts, that's not fair to those who are in sports programs that do work really hard. Trust me, their programs would be cut too if they didn't make so much money. And as far as physical education goes, there are laws governing how much phys. ed. you need because it has been proven that people need to exercise and if you don't exercise then you won't be healthy. It hasn't been proven that you need art to make you healthy (although I think that is true). That is pretty much all I have to say about this topic, if you have a problem with arts being cut, you can make a donation to your school's arts department or start a fundraiser. I know I was selling gummi bears to learn German and candy bars when I was in the school play. If you have a problem you need to get active and work with similarly minded people to fix the problem.

[artist.unknown]

I'm not trying to attack you personally, but most of my family works in academic institutions so here's my tuppence.

That would be wonderful, but the programs that make more money get the priority of who the money is alloted to. Sports subsist on their own, not to mention also provide money for other programs like the arts. Without the sports, there would be no costumes for the school play or paper on which to draw on.

School money is actually strictly budgeted. It is illegal to move money from one account to another. In other words, money allotted to sports must stay with sports, while money allotted to paying the piggish administration stays with the piggish administration. Which is why my superintendant can pay for construction for a bigger office while I don't have books.

That is pretty much all I have to say about this topic, if you have a problem with arts being cut, you can make a donation to your school's arts department or start a fundraiser. I know I was selling gummi bears to learn German and candy bars when I was in the school play.

There are also typically administration regulations on fundraising and how many groups can be running one at the same time. Sports nearly always are, which means the other groups have to politely take turns.

And as far as physical education goes, there are laws governing how much phys. ed. you need because it has been proven that people need to exercise and if you don't exercise then you won't be healthy.

The amount of work that goes into most gym classes doesn't do anyone much good, unless there are some radical benefits to volleyball I'm not aware of. It sounds noble to fund something to make kids "healthier", which is why they do it. But I'd like to see statistics that it actually does.

It hasn't been proven that you need art to make you healthy (although I think that is true).

Schools weren't established for health concerns, they were established to educate. If they want to keep us healthy while they're at it, that's lovely, I'm all for it, but when it comes down to it, I'd much prefer the emphasis of schools' spending be on educating.

[elphaba2]

It sounds noble to fund something to make kids "healthier", which is why they do it. But I'd like to see statistics that it actually does.

I don't know about anyone else, but the "workout" you get in gym is probably about equal to the workout you get walking from one class to another. We have about 7 mins to change, so thats just a half hour left, then there's five minutes for attendence and about two to get us "organized", then three to explain the day's activities, all in all whittling the time spent "being healthy" to 20 minutes staring at each other while the gym teachers (who, by the way, are only to be referred to as "physical education experts"<--utter truth!!) prod us with lacrosse sticks to get us to whack a white ball back and forth around a net.
Run-on sentence anyone?
I would much prefer that time were spent letting us be creative. You're required to take one art or music class in my school for at least two years, but gym is required for all four. Our gym teachers are physical education experts, and the art teacher is lucky if she can get "Miss Williams".

That is pretty much all I have to say about this topic, if you have a problem with arts being cut, you can make a donation to your school's arts department or start a fundraiser

But the whole point of this article is that art programs shouldn't be cut. Teachers shouldn't have to resort to sending their students out selling candy bars in order to buy paper and paints. An equal part of the budget should be set aside for art programs, just as math programs, or football teams are.

And simply as a shot of spite, my school's football team sucks. It sucks teh big one11.

[Laramon]

Asenyth, the only money my high school's football team got was through royalties for their pictures on business' calendars and spots on TV commercials and the like. I seriously doubt that the money they made was equal, let alone greater, than the amount of money that was thrown into the sports program. While they were off buying new uniforms, or rebuilding the bleachers every other year, or returfing the field every couple of years, my band, choir, and art programs went down one by one. Band required that members purchase their own instruments because the school's had finally died. My choir class required that we raise funds for any activities, so the few of us who knew marketing had to work our butts off to make our tours happen (we were the best in the Northwest USA, but in order to compete we had to pay our own way in. That should tell you something.). The only freebie we got was after our hard earned tour of California. Hawaii had heard about our multi-competition winnings and our fantastic tour that they offered to fly us out for 2 weeks in Hawaii to sing at various places.

All in all, it wasn't lack of Student interest in the arts programs, but it was that someone higher up prioritized sports first, education second, and arts in the garbage can. That isn't fair and it isn't right.

[Asenyth]

Schools weren't established for health concerns, they were established to educate. If they want to keep us healthy while they're at it, that's lovely, I'm all for it, but when it comes down to it, I'd much prefer the emphasis of schools' spending be on educating.

Well then, if that's how you really feel, by that measure there shouldn't be any arts or sports eh? And did you know that originally schools were started as a means of having the state pay to get your kids out of your hair for awhile?

School money is actually strictly budgeted. It is illegal to move money from one account to another. In other words, money allotted to sports must stay with sports, while money allotted to paying the piggish administration stays with the piggish administration. Which is why my superintendant can pay for construction for a bigger office while I don't have books.

I must assume you are kinda right here, but when we are talking extra-curricular activities like the school play or the big football game, the money made from ticket sales, refreshments, ect. goes to one account, and I'm sorry, but the reproduction of "The Phantom of the Opera" did not make as much as the Thanksgiving game with the schools rivals. The play didn't make any money most likely it lost some. And as far as your superintendant's bigger office, you can start complaining to the school board and the town/city's voters who have to make every tiny little choice when it comes to changing a public building like a school. They are also the ones that allot those precious dollars that go to the school. It's they who want a new football field.

There are also typically administration regulations on fundraising and how many groups can be running one at the same time. Sports nearly always are, which means the other groups have to politely take turns.

Well, make a complaint and say you want to set up a fundraiser and get on the list to do one next you lazy bum and stop complaining that the sports people are out there doing it. And I'm not saying you have to make a school sponsered funraiser, start one yourself outside of school and then donate the money to the arts.

The amount of work that goes into most gym classes doesn't do anyone much good, unless there are some radical benefits to volleyball I'm not aware of. It sounds noble to fund something to make kids "healthier", which is why they do it. But I'd like to see statistics that it actually does.

Okay, then look at figures from when there was stricter amounts of time for phys. ed. and look at the obesity rates and then compare them to today's. I'm sorry your school's gym program sucks so much, but I do remember playing basketball and volleyball, tennis and such at my school and if you actually participated then you heart rate did raise and you exercised. Volleyball is good for you when you're reaching up for the ball and running around trying to keep up a volley. I'd much rather sit on the bench myself, but I have to admit that yes, it was exercise and it was good for me. Not to mention, just running about in a circle for a few minutes let's you clear your head and learn better, so it does have it's educational benefits too.

Asenyth, the only money my high school's football team got was through royalties for their pictures on business' calendars and spots on TV commercials and the like. I seriously doubt that the money they made was equal, let alone greater, than the amount of money that was thrown into the sports program.

You're probably right, they most likely didn't raise anywhere near the amount that was given to the program by the school, but I don't see where your point is with that. Do you think that sports shouldn't be funded? Laramon, I know you said your band had to buy their own instruments. Have you ever bought an instrument? I know my flute cost about $400. I've also lain down sod, or 'turfed' areas before. It is much cheaper than flutes for a band mind you. I don't see why band players shouldn't have to buy their own instruments. And I was in choir for about 9 years, any competition we went to we had to pay money to go there because busses and things cost money, that's just how it is.

I knew when I came out with my opinion on this one you guys would absolutely slaughter me, as you all did. I was hoping that someone would think for a minute and realize how things are and want to change them. Things just don't change for themselves. In reality, I don't think anything in the schools gets enough funding which is why I see so many people making 'a lot' into one word and things like that. The fault of this is on the taxpayers, they are only willing to contribute so much of their money to educate us. They are also the ones that decide which programs get the money. People need to realize that there are a lot of people that hold the arts very important and we need more people that do. I can remember many times where I wanted to be involved in activities through my school that were arts AND sports related and I couldn't because my mom did not have the money that was required to join them. Yes, some schools charge you to play sports and join plays. Some schools even charge you to ride the bus. My school system instated these things soon after I had graduated. Football and other sports were the most expensive activites to join just so you all know, and I don't think that's fair either.

[sjbbandgeek]

I go to a catholic school, and we have to fundraise for all our activities. Our football and basketball programs pay for most of the other sports fees because they are the only ones that make money. Soccer doesn't attract the crowds that american football does in California. Our music program has its booster club and it takes care of our fees, but we still have to pay the costs for our spring tour.
The public school I went to last year has been downsizing the band program for years. We used to have 3 45 minute sessions over the week in a portable classroom in which we store all the equipment. Now we have 2 45 minute sessions in the lunchroom were we store our stuff in a leaky closet.

[gothictheysay]

Okay, then look at figures from when there was stricter amounts of time for phys. ed. and look at the obesity rates and then compare them to today's.

I think by this sentence you are implying that there used to be more physical education time, yes? I'd probably like to see a definitive source that there was more time earlier than there is today. I'd also like to see any sort of statistics that show kids with more gym time are healthier when they grow up. Despite lots of P.E. time, I don't think it's necessarily encouraging habits for the future - exercising and whatnot after you graduate from school. I'm sure there are lots of people who trudged through P.E. in their highschool years, didn't make it a point to exercise when they weren't forced to, and became unhealthy because of it. While P.E. is helping kids that wouldn't normally exercise actually do so, it's not necessarily the school's responsibility, is it?

[artist.unknown]

Well then, if that's how you really feel, by that measure there shouldn't be any arts or sports eh? And did you know that originally schools were started as a means of having the state pay to get your kids out of your hair for awhile?

I think anyone who's taken an art course (which includes art history) or music (which includes theory) can agree that it's educational and intellectually damanding. Arts budgets do negatively effect education. As for schools, the first public schools in the states were begun in Massachusettes to keep kids from falling in the devil's hands, supposedly. And it was actually quite difficult to create public schools because, quite to the contrary, parents wanted their children at home to work in the fields or factories. It was more financially beneficial in all ways for people to keep kids at home and not pay taxes on schools while they're at it.

Okay, then look at figures from when there was stricter amounts of time for phys. ed. and look at the obesity rates and then compare them to today's.

There are a lot of factors going into the obesity rates, the least of which I think is gym classes. Kids eat more fast food. They stay at home playing video games with each other instead of tearing around the neigbourhood with local kids. Etc etc. Besides, the circular problem with this one is that the kids who don't partipate in gym are the unfit ones, whereas the gung-ho kids are the ones who are fit to begin with and don't particularly need the extra help.

The fault of this is on the taxpayers, they are only willing to contribute so much of their money to educate us.

I agree completely. Our local school budgets are constantly being voted down and it's absolutely criminal. The problem is that people whose kids are out of school don't want to have to pay for them. If school funding wasn't such a mess, priorities wouldn't be such a problem.

[Feyliya]

In my high school, the football teams took out a 1 million dollar loan from the tax-payers to be paid back by the school's budget in the next few years. The money was to build a brand new stadium, something which we didn't really need. To pay back the lean on the budget, the funding for my school's other programs was cut. My HS's football team didn't have to lift a single finger to raise their money. My marching band had to run constant fundraisers to pay for the dubious privledge of playing at halftime during the away games. The art program in my school barely had enough money to buy paint. The only reason the honors art program even existed was because it was funded from higher up. Our chorus program was well-funded, but only because of rich benefactors. Several of the richest families in the area paid quite well for their outfits and their trips (a caribbean cruise being one of them). This went for everyone, in fact. From ROTC to the track. The only people who were well-funded through the budget were the football players. Even the textbooks in my classes were falling apart.

What this all boils down to is that football was placed as a higher priority in my high school than anything else. They were well-funded while everything else rotted to become one of the lowest-scoring schools in one of the lowest-scoring states in America. The football team didn't gross any money from the game's ticket sales or from consessions. Trust me, my mother and I spent four years working both the ticket and snack booths because they threatened to pull more funding from the band if someone from there didn't do it, so I would know. They didn't even make any attempts at finding outside money, either. Simply put, they were a team that didn't win so much as a single game that was treated like royalty.

Asenyth, don't you think that that million dollars could have gone to something better? How about textbooks, for one? A new football stadium wasn't needed. The old one was good as it was. The new one, in fact, has more seating and parking problems than the old one. And they tore up a first-rate rubber track of the track team's that they paid for with three years's worth of fundraisers to do it. Also, inside the track was the marching band's practice field. My marching band had to practice in an ant-infested swamp and the track team had to practice on an ancient, rocky, pitted track at the middle school after that. The only good thing about the new field is that it's right next to the school instead of a mile away. They haven't even put back in a new track for the track team yet.

And, before you get on about arts programs not helping in children's health, there have been studies done that show the more mental stimulation a child has the better they do in physical endeavors, and visa versa. To stay healthy, humans need both physical exercise as well as mental. The less arts a child has, the less mentally alert the child becomes. Memory becomes sluggish, it becomes harder to retain new information, and it becomes harder to notice small details. And, if you will notice, this is a symptom that many jocks exibit.

[Asenyth]

That rightly all sucks, yell at the tax payers that thought that it was okay for the football team to take out a million dollar loan from them. Why does everyone keep acting like I have something against music and art programs? I don't, I love those programs, I hate sports programs, I think they are useless. I just want you guys to do something about the problem, you can whine and mope and be mad at me for playing the Devil's advocate, but god dammit just actually do something. I do think that we all live in a democracy here and if you have a problem you can take a stand and use your freedom of speech and take a stand. The American Revolution didn't happen from people sitting around complaining, you have to stand up. This right here is not standing up, going to your mayor or town selectmen or speaking up in a town meeting is, so just go do that why don't you?

[gothictheysay]

The complaining comes from frustration that sometimes there is nothing that can be done, and that decisions have been made. And oftentimes the complaining can turn into worthwhile discussion, as I believe the author of the first post tried to encourage.

[Asenyth]

I know that, and I understand, but there ARE things that can be done and it is worthless to just pity yourself.