Vegetarianism Vs Meat Eating Options

[Pikasyuu]

I apologize for not having a better opening post and will probably make a better one when I see which direction this thread takes, but, basically, what the title says - are you a vegetarian? Why? Vegan? Why? Do you consume red meat? Why?

I, personally, am a pescetarian. To simplify it, because I like animals and the meat industry is horrifying, full of hormones and other additives, and generally..mean. It's also more healthy, and I get protein from alternative sources such as fishes.

[Moosh]

I eat meat. Because I quite like the taste, and I don't really care about animals.

Possibly this post should have been better, but I've been in the library for the last eight hours.

[gothictheysay]

I'm not a vegetarian, but I don't have much of a good reason for it, other than the fact that I like the taste of some meats too much to give it up. I would probably have to work harder to find sources of protein/iron too, (eggs are great though!) and I'm lazy. I do like animals - when I was younger, I decided I loved pigs so much that I wouldn't eat pig meat, and just from doing that for years I rarely eat bacon/ham/pork - but I guess not enough to not eat some of them? :X I could, however, work harder and try to purchase meats from places that guarantee not to abuse their animals with hormones and such. I'm all for that. I could also probably go without beef in the future, but chicken is so good! ._. I know lots of vegetarians and have often eaten the fake meat stuff, which isn't all bad.

[Phyllis]

I'm an ovo-lacto vegetarian. I actually do like the flavour and texture of meat. I admit that sometimes I miss it -- especially seafood. But I don't eat it for several reasons:

1. It's generally better for the environment. Growing one calorie of meat protein takes something like ten times the amount of fossil fuel as growing one calorie of plant protein. I'm a total arsebucket to the environment in other ways (my family live halfway across the world = some unavoidable long-haul flights), but I do like to do my part when I can.
2. I dislike factory farms. If I'm going to eat an animal, I'd prefer that it was treated humanely and not injected with all sorts of wacky hormones prior to being slaughtered. Organic, free range stuff is available, of course, but that brings us to my next reason...
3. I'm married to a guy who was raised as a vegetarian (and is not going to change his mind), and to be completely honest I am just too lazy to cook myself separate meals. I love to cook, but I hate cooking for one.
4. I've been a vegetarian so long that eating meat at this point would probably make me feel ill. It happened the first time I went from being a veggie to eating meat again, and I don't care to repeat it!
5. I'm cheap. Vegetarian food is generally a lot cheaper, assuming you don't live off of the pre-packaged veggie burgers (which I did for a long time, I have to admit, because I didn't really know how to cook non-meaty meals).

I don't have a problem with other people eating meat. As long as they don't try to pressure me into eating it, then we're cool. I only get kind of twitchy when people who eat fish and/or chicken say that they're a vegetarian. Trout is not a vegetable, kids.

[Yannick]

Meat eater, but I do limit myself. Mainly because I don't want to take in too much stuff I don't need. Basically, pure hedonist, and I enjoy meat. I'm indifferent about animals. While I couldn't actually kill and cook something myself, I have no problem eating stuff. I think animals have the right not to be slaughtered mercilessly, but really don't care that much. They were going to die anyway. There are more chickens than people, chickens not being the brightest species, so what good are they to have around just reproducing? Survival of the fittest, so, *noms*

I do buy (well, my mom does, but I made her..) organic though, mostly because this video freaked me out a few years ago.

I've done the vegan/vegetarian thing before (admittedly, for stupid reasons), but found it gets boring after a while. "Look vegetables! Again.."

Smoked salmon, cooked salmon, and sushi (specifically salmon sushi ) are too awesome to give up.

4. I've been a vegetarian so long that eating meat at this point would probably make me feel ill. It happened the first time I went from being a veggie to eating meat again, and I don't care to repeat it!

I was like that with milk for a while. When I was a toddler, I would cry for chocolate milk until I got it, wake up in the middle of the night and demand for it, and throw the hugest fit if my parents wouldn't let me have any. My first word was 'kaba' (chocolate milk), and first sentence 'Mama, kaba!'. This behavior continued until I was about 8, still drinking from my (kick-ass) dinosaur sippy cup, when my mom decided it should stop. She didn't just make me stop drinking kaba (hated plain milk, always), but dramatically reduced how much I got. And made me stop drinking from the sippy cup.
Then when I was 12ish, I decided to go vegan. It lasted *maybe* a month and a half? But yeah, my body started craving milk like crazy. So I had some, and felt really sick. Got over it though, and yeah, definitely not something I want to do again.

Has anyone else noticed that humans are, as far as I know anyway, the only mammals to drink milk after we're not infants anymore? Maybe lactose intolerance is normal?

[I_am_the_best]

I'm a semi-vegetarian. I just haven't got the effort to actually carry it through. Not much of a fan of the meat taste thing, and I don't eat pigs anyway, what with being Jewish and all that. I don't like hurting animals. I used to, in the summer months at least, take great pleasure in running about the house barbarically with a rolled up newspaper and killing all the flies. That was completely unnecessary of me. It's not because I care about the animals in anyway, the vast majority of them aren't self-aware or rational (are dolphins? I'm never sure of that one), but because I think that to an extent it reflects who you are a little bit, how you treat animals I mean. A bit like the Kantian 'don't be rude to animals, you might learn bad habits for when you're around humans' thing. That said, that becomes a bit tenuous when it comes to eating meat. I'm not going to discriminate against meat eaters. I eat meat too sometimes because the whole 'I'm vegetarian' thing is too much effort if you're round other people's houses and they've already prepared a meal, but if given a choice, then it's vegetarian always.

[snooodlysnoosnoo...]

I've been a vegetarian my whole life, well if you don't count the times my Grandpa persuaded me to eat meat and the chicken nugget phase when I was about 8 (if they even count as meat), which makes my situation a bit weird.

Until I was about 16 I would occasionally eat fish because my parents do but I found myself sitting staring at it wondering if it had a good life, how long ago it was caught and how long ago it died. Pictures of trawlers covered in fish effectively "drowning" make me feel sick and the issues with dolphins and tuna are huge - even the "dolphin friendly" nets are often ineffective.

With regards to eating mammals and birds, the few times that I have eaten meat (probably not since I was about 10 tbh) I do not remember enjoying the experience. The whole intensive farming thing is horrific and more than anything it bugs me that the majority of people don't seem to care about anything except how much they pay for it. I understand that these animals are bred to be killed and eaten and that part doesn't bother me - it's the way that they spend their short lives, often not seeing daylight until they are transported to the abattoir.

My boyfriend is a big fan of eating meat and I'm not going to stop him from eating it, I try to buy organic/free range for him and persuade him to eat the same as me occasionally but he always finds it bland. The problem there is not that it is veggie, it's that I don't like spicy food, I don't like tomato sauce and I don't like seasoning (herbs, pepper etc) so the food I make myself is bland so even if I wasn't veggie we would probably still have the same problem.

I'm not really sure if I've answered the question though :S

[Daria]

I'm an ovo-lacto vegetarian.
1. It's generally better for the environment. Growing one calorie of meat protein takes something like ten times the amount of fossil fuel as growing one calorie of plant protein.
2. I dislike factory farms. If I'm going to eat an animal, I'd prefer that it was treated humanely and not injected with all sorts of wacky hormones prior to being slaughtered. Organic, free range stuff is available, of course, but that brings us to my next reason...
...
4. I've been a vegetarian so long that eating meat at this point would probably make me feel ill. It happened the first time I went from being a veggie to eating meat again, and I don't care to repeat it!
5. I'm cheap. Vegetarian food is generally a lot cheaper

Ditto!

Has anyone else noticed that humans are, as far as I know anyway, the only mammals to drink milk after we're not infants anymore? Maybe lactose intolerance is normal?

It is- it's actually kind of hilarious that humans farm cows/yaks/goats/sheep for milk and consider breastmilk disgusting. The amount of dairy that humans eat is HUGE and many vegans have the same arguement that Cand pointed out about meat production- you're feeding, heating, caring for these animals which uses up a lot of energy and resources. Also, cows -> methane -> global warming. Although many vegans will still eat rice (which is another massive producer of methane).

I'm vegetarian for a number of reasons, and they seem to change over the years. I started out as an angry 9 year-old (maybe I was 8? Can't remember. It was before my younger brother was born) who didn't want animals to die for her food. I gave up all meat bar prawns- and then after a while I gave those up too. I used to love eating meat- I was the child who would always ask for a drumstick from the roast, love spare ribs, shell-on prawns (so I could peel off the shells), mussles, shark, haggis, sausages, black pudding, bacon- especially the fat- and ham: essentially, the more I got to rip it apart with my teeth or hands, the better. I've even had frog's legs. When I gave up the prawns, I started having stomach problems and after a while it was deduced that the pesticides and insecticides that were sprayed on food were causing the upset- apparently something in meat or fish allowed me to tolerate them. So I went on an organic diet. Back in the mid-to-late 90s, the only people eating organic food were hippies who grew their own and rich people who bought it from Waitrose. Because of financial problems, I had to give up being vegetarian because the family just couldn't afford to buy organic food for me.
So! Cue me being 11, trying out vegetarianism again. For some reason this time, my body didn't react badly to the chemicals put on food and I could survive without needing to eat meat. Hurrah! I think my reasoning was about same as last time- I didn't want the animals to suffer for my food.
About a decade later and I still abhor the idea of battery farming- but there's also the environmental issue that plays a large part in my eating habits. I try to buy locally produced (and if it's organic then yay!) food, free-range eggs, less rice and less soya products (because the amount of processing needed to get them to look like something else). Being a marine biologist, I don't have a problem with people eating fish: I have a problem with overfishing, pollution, and the people who think that eating live octopus* makes you cool. Being a vegetarian, I don't have a problem with people eating meat: I have a problem with the source. Even when people half heartedly go for "good" meat- such as the better bacon made in the UK, or free-range chicken- they still don't pay enough attention to what they are buying. Just because it has a Union Jack flag on the packet, doesn't mean the pigs were reared in the UK- the bacon was just packaged there. The lack of butchers in towns and villages now mean that people go to the supermarket for their meat- you can ask a spotty teenager in a Morrisons uniform where the bacon was reared, but he can't tell you the farm.
The idea that meat is cheap is something else that bugs me. Meat is not cheap. It costs hundreds of pounds per pig to get it to slaughter, and because people feel that everything these days should have money off, be Buy One Get One Free or cheap then they are outraged at spending what would give the farmer a fair amount for his produce. This means that farms run at a loss and because they would then go bust, the government gives them subsidies to keep them in business- just. It either encourages them to start growing something else, or to sell up to a larger farm which then absorbs them like an amoeba and slowly monopolises the market. ARGH!
*breathes*

I have always felt that there are some people who need to eat meat- and that theory has been proven to me by friends and aquaintences who get severely anaemic if they don't eat meat. That isn't for lack of trying to take iron supplements. Personally, I can go give blood when I'm on my period and be told that my iron levels are "fantastic".
As I see it, humans evolved (ho ho ho) as hunter gatherers. We were meant to eat small amounts often, not eat dairy and only eat meat or fish when we went out and caught it. Because of modern society, old royal societal eating habits and the constant greed for money, the way we eat is totally screwed up. It isn't going to change any time soon, either.

No apologies for the length of this post- be happy that I left out my rant about fast food chains!

*Octopus. The creatures that have so many neurones and nerve endings in each arm that they are considered to have nine brains. I just can't understand why people eat them live. If they had a voicebox, they would scream at the pain inflicted on them.

[Phyllis]

Has anyone else noticed that humans are, as far as I know anyway, the only mammals to drink milk after we're not infants anymore? Maybe lactose intolerance is normal?

Yup! Like Daria said, it is normal to be lactose intolerant after infancy. Even among humans. From Wikipedia: "It is estimated that 75% of adults worldwide show some decrease in lactase activity during adulthood. The frequency of decreased lactase activity ranges from as little as 5% in northern Europe, up to 71% for Southern Europe, to more than 90% in some African and Asian countries."

I've done the vegan/vegetarian thing before (admittedly, for stupid reasons), but found it gets boring after a while. "Look vegetables! Again.."

It can easily get boring unless you familiarise yourself with a variety of veggie recipies. Cooking interesting and varied vegetarian food is harder (for me, at least) than cooking interesting and varied meat dishes. I had to actually get cookbooks and join an online vegetarian recipe community before I stopped just cooking processed meat substitutes (which are fine occasionally, but I'd rather not base most meals on them).

snoo: I can't say I blame him! I think I would need to keep a supply of salsa or chili sauce handy if I was eating with you on a regular basis.

[voices_in_my_hea...]

I'm not vegetarian in any way at all.

Two reasons:
1)I'm anemic. Even eating meat as reguarly as I do, my iron levels are still extremely low. So, to quit eating meat would probably give a blow to my system that I couldn't quite handle.
2) My dad works in the meat producing industry. Because of this, we tend to get really good deals on all sorts of meat. Since I'm 16 and don't have any way of going out and buying my own food, I'm pretty much stuck eating what we're given to eat.

[gothictheysay]

There are more chickens than people, chickens not being the brightest species, so what good are they to have around just reproducing?

I would argue that because chickens have been domesticated and raised for our consumption, and we now raise chickens to eat them, that's why there are more chickens than people... I don't think the main reason we eat chickens is because "there are lots of these, why not eat them"?

There are a lot more humans than other species, can we eat them too? (which actually doesn't particularly bother me much, but, what right do we have to go around just reproducing? Not saying you're wrong for eating meat, obviously, but I think that particular line doesn't make the best argument. )

[Yannick]

There are a lot more humans than other species, can we eat them too? (which actually doesn't particularly bother me much, but, what right do we have to go around just reproducing? Not saying you're wrong for eating meat, obviously, but I think that particular line doesn't make the best argument. )

Well, seeing as we're the species that pretty much dominates this planet, I think we have the right to do whatever we want. Does that justify us being assholes about it? No, we should still be conscious of the environment. But in the end, what we decide goes, and I think human reproduction is really more of something that's completely essential than a right. Chickens die out? Meh. Humans die out? Still meh, but I'd rather it happen by big pretty universal explosions than our own stupidity to decide to discontinue reproduction.

Meh.

[leopold]

Has anyone else noticed that humans are, as far as I know anyway, the only mammals to drink milk after we're not infants anymore? Maybe lactose intolerance is normal?

Yup! Like Daria said, it is normal to be lactose intolerant after infancy. Even among humans. From Wikipedia: "It is estimated that 75% of adults worldwide show some decrease in lactase activity during adulthood. The frequency of decreased lactase activity ranges from as little as 5% in northern Europe, up to 71% for Southern Europe, to more than 90% in some African and Asian countries."

Which makes it all the more bizarre that we keep doing it. I know I've got a degree of intolerance to lactose myself, I can feel the IBS-like symptoms creep up on me after drinking a large quantity of milk or overdoing the ice-cream. I shan't tell you what happens afterwards

But on the original question: I'm an omnivore. I make no apologies for it. The human physical makeup is designed so we can eat pretty much anything; incisors for biting vegetables, canines for tearing meat, a digestive system sophisticated enough to handle both and the needs for all manners of proteins, vitamins and what-not that such a varied diet provides. But I don't eat meat for that reason. I enjoy the taste of it. Always have. I probably eat more than is healthy for me, if I'm honest, but for me, no vegetable can top a good steak. Unless it's mushrooms, sautéed and coated in blue cheese. Mmmmmm... Sorry, I went a bit Homer there! I do eat vegetables and fruit as well, I do try to balance the diet, but I can't have a pile of boiled new potatoes (skin on) and a side of steamed broccoli without a slab of gammon or chicken or some such to go with it. I do eat the occasional veggie dish and I do find them quite enjoyable, but I couldn't eat them all the time.

[Daria]

Leo: one word. EXPLOSIVE!

[leopold]

What, the result of lactose intolerance? Yeah, tell me about it. The metaphors alone are enough to put you off!

[Phyllis]

It might be worth trying goat or sheep milk products in place of cow sometimes, Leo. I have the same problem (oh, Lordy, I considered resurrecting the TMI thread for what transpired after I had a cream scone when my in-laws were visiting), and I read somewhere or other that the proteins in goat's and sheep's milk doesn't usually create the same tummy rumblings. I don't like soymilk, so I figured it was worth a shot. I've found it to be true so far!

I still sometimes say "Pft, that's Future Candice's problem!" and pick up the cheddar, though.

[Daria]

There's also Lactofree which has added lactase. It is mroe expensive, though, but they also do a yoghurt and cheese range now.

[leopold]

All very interesting ideas, I shall have to investigate these. Thanks, ladies

I can usually handle dairy in small doses, but when I do stupid stuff like eating half a carton of Ben & Jerrys (like I did last night) or have a vat of cappuccino (as I did about five minutes ago) then I end up paying for it. Urk... 'scuse me, I need to go do something in private...

[Daria]

ALSO! Case studies (i.e watching how my boyfriend's body reacts now and again) drinking the lactofree allows you to eat more normal dairy because it's giving you the enzymes that you're lacking. Hurrah!

(However case studies have also shown that 1/2 tub of B&J + copious amounts of alcohol = projectile vomiting that a one Emily Rose would be impressed by)

[leopold]

Oooh, sounds like a call to use the word w00t!

I've not had projectile vomit from B&J, but then I don't drink with it. Or without it, come to think of it. I tend to find the projectiles are from a more, erm, southerly direction

[gothictheysay]

Yeah, my boyfriend is lactose intolerant, but he can usually handle dairy as long as it's not straight milk. For that, he has Lactaid milk, which sounds similar to Lactofree that Daria mentions. It doesn't taste much different, either.

[froggle-rock]

I was a veggie for a few years in my teens. I've been thinking about it a fair bit recently and I think having come back from Jamaica where my diet was fairly differant and reading this thread I'm going to cut down on the amount of mean I eat. But not cut it out. I enjoy eating some meats, just as I enjoy some veg- (esp blanched broccoli *quivers*). It does play on my mind the amount of food that animals fed for us to eat, eat and their living conditions. I tried to grosse myself out by watching slaughter videos a while back. Maybe I've just become nonchalant about it all. I've never been a person though, that feels that a meal isn't a 'propa' meal if it doesn't have a body part of an animal in it, though.

You can get iron and protein from other sources, I love cooking with nuts and all that to be honest- I like the texture. In my mash tatoes, noodles, rice all that jazz.

Reason I became a veggie when I was a teen was because I had lots of pets and was all in love with animals and against cruelty to them. I stopped because one day I gave into the temptation posed by my nan's fried chicken.

It might be worth trying goat or sheep milk products in place of cow sometimes, Leo. I have the same problem (oh, Lordy, I considered resurrecting the TMI thread for what transpired after I had a cream scone when my in-laws were visiting), and I read somewhere or other that the proteins in goat's and sheep's milk doesn't usually create the same tummy rumblings. I don't like soymilk, so I figured it was worth a shot. I've found it to be true so far!

I still sometimes say "Pft, that's Future Candice's problem!" and pick up the cheddar, though.

I don't get IBS when I consume cow's milk it just brings out eczema patches. But I've not trouble with goats milk- not that I drink large, or even medium quantities of either. Just don't have a taste for dairy milk. Alternatively there is oat milk if you're not gluten intolerant, or rice milk, or the yummiest of al: almond milk. Or, you could just pour juice on your cereal.

They [chickens] were going to die anyway. There are more chickens than people, chickens not being the brightest species, so what good are they to have around just reproducing? Survival of the fittest, so, *noms*

Well, you are going to die anyway too, Yannick, but it's no advocation for you getting offed any sooner. Anyways, most of them are bred to make eggs and for eating.


Syuu, what made you ask?

[Pikasyuu]

Syuu, what made you ask?

curiosity, and the fact that i enjoy reading a good discussion.

[Felander]

I am a meat-eater, mostly because I enjoy the whole experience of cooking and eating meat too much to give it up. Whenever I'm buying meat I will try and source organic free-range cuts, since I'm a firm believer that the quality of meat is directly related the the quality of life experienced by the animal. I do feel better knowing that the creature had a healthy, active, and 'happy' life, and if this can be somehow tasted in the meat, so much the better. I'm a strong advocate of eating or using every part of an animal; a philosophy I feel allows me to pay the most respect to the animal's life by ensuring it goes on to contribute to the cycle of life in whatever way.

[believe]

I would -like- to be a vegetarian. However, I am far too finicky to adequately meet my nutritional needs without (and sometimes with) meat. I also looooove chicken. Someday, when and if I make a living wage, I will consider going pescetarian or however it is spelled as I know the meat industry is truly horrific.