William Gibson, HELP ME DECIDE? Options

[Mr Meh]

I have recently read "Nueromancer" and "Burning Crome" by William Gibson

I was wondering if you fine people out there could help me decide whether to read "Count Zero" or "Mona Lisa Overdrive" next

[Mata]

Count Zero. It's the second in the trilogy, and Mona Lisa Overdrive comes third.

His second trilogy runs in sequence: Virtual Light, Idoru (possibly my favourite), All Tomorrow's Parties.

He has also written a new novel, published in the US last year, Pattern Recognition, which so far is a stand-alone novel. You can read any of these in any order you want, especially the first trilogy, but they are best in the order that they were intended to be read.

Gibson has also written lots of other things, including the script for a play back in 1992. The script was considered lost to the world, Gibson himself doesn't have a copy, until I managed to track down the director of the play a few week's ago, and hopefully I should be getting a copy of it within a month or two. I'm very excited.

I can talk about Gibson until your eyes bleed. Don't make me prove this.

[The Bobster]

I can talk about Gibson until your eyes bleed. Don't make me prove this.

Me too.

For instance, one thing that's very difficult to do is put yourself back in the historical millieu of the time of his earlier novels were published. The Neuromancer Trilogy might even seem a little trite to people today, especially internet geeks like us and people who've seen quite enough of the Matrix films. Easy to forget that a lot of these concepts didn't exist in society until Gibson added them to our common meme structure. He hasn't been given enough credit for a lot of this stuff. (It has been claimed that Gibson invented the word "cyberspace," for instance.)

Mr Meh, you say you've read a couple of his early things but you didn't mention if you enjoyed them. This is key, of course. Though perhaps not as groundbreaking, the later novels are better books, with characters more finely-drawn and the plotlines more comprehensible, the environments of the characters more akin social commentary on the present age and less like a mere backdrop for a "potboiler" in the thriller genre.

Mata, I'm fascinated to hear about this play. Do keep us informed as it develops.

[Mr Meh]

well i bought nueromancer on the advice of a friend then got burning crome

then bought everything i could find with the guys name on it and plan to have them alkl read soon i was just wondering about the order

[Mata]

I expect that the order of the novels is probably listed in the front of them in the 'also by this author' section. So if you lose this thread you can probably find the same info there.

Yes, Gibson did invent the term cyberspace, here's a transcript from the documentary 'No Maps for these Territories' where he's talking about coining it:

http://columbia.edu/~caw39/section2.html#cyberspace

If you're a real Gibson obbessive I'd strongly recommend the documentary. It's fiddly to get hold of outside of the US, but there are links to buy it on the official site. There are a few bootlegs available on various P2P networks, which seems only fitting considering the hacker aesthetic, but personally because it's been made on a shoestring by a small crew I would hope that people would support their efforts by buying an original copy.

I'll let you know how I get on with the play. I'll have to get permission from Gibson if I want to put it online for the public. It's most likely that he will allow me to do this, but if he doesn't then I'm going to have to respect his wishes. I'm writing my PhD thesis about his works, so if I do get this play then it will be a major score for me.

[Mr Meh]

just remember to forward a copy of the play to gibson himself

just think about it you could be the ultimate Gibson fan boy

[Patient #212]

I'm halfway through Neuromancer right now. It has a quality about it that I can't exactly describe, but I know I like it.

[Mata]

Gibson stated about Neuromancer that he wrote texture because he couldn't write characters, so it's probably that that seems odd!

The director of the play apparently is still in contact with Gibson, so I believe he will be asking for permission on my behalf, which is a real shame because I wanted to use it as a bargaining chip to get direct contact with him. I've asked that my details get passed on. I'm sure Gibson is a busy man, but it would be great to get the chance to ask him a few questions.

[Mr Meh]

it would be great to get the chance to ask him a few questions.

damn right the guy revelutionised sci fi

[beleraphon]

Just bought new Gibson novel
'Pattern Recognition'

its near-future, kind of like 'all tomorrows parties' was

my obsession continues unabated...


and The Difference Engine is worth a read as well, Gibson & Sterling.

and if you like that then go for:
Neal Stephenson
Michal Marshall Smith
Jeff Noon
Richard Morgan

fantastic cutting edge cyber-sci-fi

[Mata]

Actually Pattern Recognition is set in a very specific period, I believe it's summer 2002 (off the top of my head, it might be 2003). Well done on finding a copy, the first print run in the UK sold out within about six weeks and they're not doing another one until later this year when the paperback is released.

Neal Stephenson -

A very intelligent writer. Although his work these days seems to come is such huge tomes that I've not got around to reading his latest two books.

Michal Marshall Smith -

I've not read any of that.

Jeff Noon -

I've not really got on that well with Jeff Noon's work. I think there must be something about the style that doesn't appeal to me, but I don't know what it is. I've read a couple of his books and they've left me quite cold.

Richard Morgan -

A superb writer, although I wouldn't really say he's doing the same thing as Gibson (then again, neither is anyone else). Morgan's work is extremely violent, brilliantly thought out and incredibly masculine. It is also very distinctly post-cyberpunk. Gibson is a very poetic writer, evoking the sense of a scene rather than a pictorial image of an environment. Morgan, as do most writers, gives vivid images, but there is less of an emotive quality to his words. The locations and events are more vividly written but there is less of a sense of what it would be like to live in the times he describes. Everyone should read Altered Carbon before the film is finished.

The Difference Engine -

An interesting novel, 'steampunk' at its height in some ways. It doesn't hang together as well as the individual works by either Sterling or Gibson, but still it is a very interesting read, especially when put in context of Gibson's other work.

[beleraphon]

Pattern recognition is now out in paperback, got mine from Kulture Shock in Norwich, a specialist sci-fi & fantasy book, video, dvd and model shop.

Worth a visit if you end up this end of the country, they are often the first with the goodies and do a load of signings by authors, actors etc...

Michal Marshal Smith is great 'Only Forwards' comes highly reccomended.
(so can't spell today, sorry!)

And I didn't know about a film of Altered carbon, gonna have to search for it now, thanks!

bel.

[Azrael The Cat]

There making a movie version of Pattern Recognition. I haven't read the book yet, but it seems rather creepy. I loved the screenplay he wrote for Kill Switch on The X-Files. First Person Shooter wasn't so great though.

As for other writers, Brave New World is a good novel. So are the Foundation Series and the legendary Dune novels.

I'm wondering Mata (and anyone else who's willing to) if you could tell me what you think of Larry Niven? I seem to have developed an unhealthy obcession with him ever since my sister bought me a copy of The Mote In God's Eye. I'm especially fond of Ringworld, although I must admit that his best novel (of the one's I've read) has to be Destiny's Road.

Also, what about Micheal Crichton? Although most of his plots have something to do with sci-fi, he seems to restrain his imagination, although I must admit he's great at creating suspense. I'd like to see him write a horror story. I love his concepts for alien life though.

[Mata]

I've not read any Larry Niven.

Michael Crichton, from the couple of things of his that I read about ten years ago, can write a good, fun book. Don't expect revelations into the nature of humanity, just expect a good ride with them and you won't be disappointed.

I'd heard rumours of a Pattern Recognition movie, but this just strikes me as being a desperate attempt by Hollywood to make something - anything based on Gibson's novels. They've been trying to make a movie of Neuromancer since it came out. He just doesn't translate very well onto the screen.

I'm in slight dread of a movie of Pattern Recognition, I'm just waiting for crackly Ring-style footage to come on screen... That's the problem with his books, they rely on the power of your imagination to make things transcendent. You very rarely see a film that can convincingly convey that quality about an object, and so the footage in Pattern Recognition will probably lose all its power if someone actually tries to make it.

Bel: I suspect that the paperback you've got is a US import. I'm about 99% sure that it's not out in that format in the UK yet.

[Jonman]

Ooh - a movie of Altered Carbon? Nice! Look forward to that, although I have the horrid sinking feeling that it'll be a bag of old ladies pants.

I've not read much Michael Crichton, but what I have read has been dull, to be honest. Some of his core ideas are good, but his writing makes me fall asleep. It really does feel like a Hollywood movie of a book - all pretty on the outside, but lacking any real substance. Which, I suppose, is why his work translates into films so well....

[Azrael The Cat]

That might be due to the fact that he got himself through college by writing screenplays to b sci-fi flicks about killer androids. I actually like his writing. I like how he always seems to start a novel with an essay or news report kinda feel and then launch into the fiction. I like the way he blends the science in with the narative. Mata's right, it isn't too revolutionary, but it's always a ride and his ideas are interesting, even if in the end it's not really about those ideas at all.

[Mata]

Jon's got a fair point, he's just seeing it from a different angle. He grew up reading real high-sci-fi, so to him fiction without the meat behind it is just vapid. Personally I quite enjoy a bit of pulp whizz-bang, and I think that's what Crichton gives. And I really like the film 'Westworld', so that might sway me more towards his novels than I would have felt otherwise. He really is a screenwriter but I tend to read for escapism from my serious reading, not for more thought provoking stuff.

[oobunnie]

I've been meaning to pick up one of his books. Simply for the amount people on here rave about him. It turns out that I do own Burning Chrome, but as for my skim threw the first few posts I'm thinking it not the first in a book series. Anybody want to tell me which book I should go out and buy to start off with?

[Mata]

Burning Chrome is actually quite a good point to start. New Rose Hotel, Burning Chrome, and Johnny Mnenonic are all set in the same universe as Neuromancer and mostly are a bit previous to the novels. He wrote most of the work in that compilation before he began writing novels anyway, so it's interesting to see where he came from. Also, Johnny.. has a character in it that reappears in Neuromancer.

[Ashbless]

If you get a chance to go to a book reading by William Gibson I would highly recommend doing so. However you will then "hear" his books forevermore with a texas accent.
I was lucky to hear the man read bits of Johnny Mneumonic way way back in 1996(not 100% sure of the year) when he spoke at the university of Victoria.

Larry Niven's stuff is rather good. You may want to look for his Integral Trees stuff. I think they are preRingworld. If you play Magic an interesting bit of trivia is Nevinyrral's Disk is named in honour of this author and his tendency to destroy worlds.

[Mata]

I know what you mean about hearing his books in his voice forever more. I've got the CDs of Gibson reading Neuromancer that came out ten years ago (thankyou eBay!) and now when I'm re-reading Neuromancer I always hear it in his voice.

It's odd, previously I had always imagined the text to be more fast-paced. When Gibson reads it he makes it sound like beat-poetry.

[Twitching]

I finally read Neuromancer. Actually my first encounter with Gibson's writing. Really loved it.

In spite of the fact that I read the book because it was recommended to me by a guy I liked until he rejected me two days later. But hey, I only knew him for a week anyway and I'll never see him again, so I'll just appreciate his taste in books.

[Tarantio]

Strange really, but with my obsession for sci-fi and computers, you would think I would know more about Gibson's work, but as it stands I've only read Neuromancer and Count Zero, but heartily enjoyed them both. After only JUST, as in five minutes ago, seeing Jhonny Mnemonic for the first time I would have to agree that his work doesn't really go to film very well, even if he is involved in the making of it. Though I must say having Henry Rollins in it was a stroke of unmatchable genious.

I'm very surprised no one has mentioned the Cyberpunk series of anime yet, as almost everything about it is Gibsonesque, with only slight variations as to settings and details. As anime, the action is far cooler than anything on film, and it has similar depth and eerieness to the books (as I've read them) themselves. Also recommended are both the works of Phillip K Dick (who, you may notice, I never shut up about), especially the VALIS trilogy, and the Cyberpunk RPG, possibly out of print, but then so are tons of RPGs that you can find easily enough in places like eBay or in local RP shops (if you have those where you live).

As to the play, Mata, its news to me. If you ever get some spare time and the urge, feel free to send a copy north of the border, I know a LOT of people who would appreciate it, and may be able to arrange a little something in return

And no, I don't deal in sexual favours

[Mata]

I now have a semi-complete script of the play, but I've not yet received any word about whether I'm allowed to distribute it online (copyright restrictions 'n' all that). It's really a very odd piece of work.

Philip K Dick is great, but I've not had the chance to read much. I was expecting it to be a lot harder to read, but it was actually really easy going, which was a very nice surprise.

I've not seen the Cyberpunk anime series, but James Cameron's TV series 'Dark Angel' rips nearly everything wholesale from Gibson's second trilogy (Virtual Light, Idoru, All Tomorrow's Parties), and actually does it rather well.

[Azrael The Cat]

If you play Magic an interesting bit of trivia is Nevinyrral's Disk is named in honour of this author and his tendency to destroy worlds. 

I didn't know that actually. Then again I don't play magic. He does have a tendency to destroy worlds though, lol. I thought that the way the Moties waged war by using asteroids as projectile weapons was kinda cool though.