European PS3 delay, Grr! Options

[Mata]

I'm pretty miffed about this. The European release of the PS3 has been put back to March 2007, four months after Japan and the US.

There are some advantages though:

• this gives me time to save up money
• the major bugs in the production line should have been sorted out
• the online service will have been tested
• the system's software should have less bugs
• there will be a wider selection of launch titles available

That last one is a big advantage for us; four months is a long time in the early days of a machine so we should have some decent titles at launch, but I still find this frustrating. Even more annoying is the likelihood that even after that time there will probably be shortages, and in the UK we will still pay more than the rest of the world for the machine.

I was intending to be an early-adopter on this one, but now I'm not so sure. Like many people, I may go over to a Wii instead... But I'll wait to see what the games are like first. After my less-than-stellar impression from the GameCube, even the supposed best titles, I think it will take a fair bit of convincing to get me buying another Nintendo machine.

Is anyone else annoyed by this? Or is anyone else thinking about the Wii in a new light because of it?

[Sir Psycho Sexy]

The PS3 has always been over priced in my mind, then again, so has the xbox 360. On top of that they seem rather...redundant, or at least they would be if it wasn't for the unique games on each system. Maybe I'm missing something, but most of my gaming is done on the PC.
I've been looking forward to the Wii since I first saw the trailers, sure the games are probably gonna be quirky and a little camp, but the innovation of the Wii controller puts a whole new spin on it, it has something a PC doesn't, and that is why it's worth getting. I got the GC for Zelda, and that's pretty much all I've played on it, I traded in my PS2 to get it but I can't say I miss it, I was getting pretty annoyed with the lack of decent titles at the time and the way Seymour could flatten my whole team in FFX with just 2 attacks.

Oh yeah, I don't miss hand cramps either

[Witless]

You'll all hate my answer to this.

But since I am doing a digital animation course, game playing is part of our research. (Gods honest truth)
We get a games room where we get to play all the latest titles of all the latest consoles. As well as PC games.

I am fully intending to fully road test theWii and PS3 before I see what I'll get.

I'll not buy early on though.. like normal I'll wait for price fall that hits the christmas after launch, but I'll have a pretty thorough knowledge of both.

*waits for hate mail*

[Mata]

*pokes Witless with a very long stick*

My PC is for working on, and it would cost a fortune to get myself a PC that remained capable of playing the best PC games for five years (which is how long I've had my PS2). In these terms, a console offers pretty decent value for money. Also, my PC sits upstairs, and my computer desk will never be as comfortable, or socialable, as my sofa.

This said, I do still think that they are prohibitively priced. I think Sony may really have cocked up by stretching for the Blu-ray hardware and delaying the Euro launch. 360 and Wii are both going to have a massive lead, the price of the PS3 is enormous, even compared to the 360, which will cause a lot of people to wait longer before buying one. In the meantime the 360 will have had its first price-drop, and the Wii will still be cheaper than both of them.

[Spacehappy]

Whenever i see things about the PS3 i always think of this-

http://www.devilducky.com/media/49860/

(Might be considered adult humor)

Personally think the ps3 is overpriced and will fail drastically. Also some of the classic stuff those idiots at Sony have been saying is great reading-

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3150935

There was another with some sony guy saying that you would have to take out a second mortgage to buy a ps3, but i cant find a link

[bryden42]

*Feels really old and out of the loop*

Whats a Wii?

[I_am_the_best]

*Feels really old and out of the loop*

Whats a Wii?

Nintendo Revolution with a crazy name.

[Mata]

There are a few things that the Wii has going for it:

the price. It's mostly based on Game Cube technology, so manufacturing is easy and cheap, meaning that the machine is a relative bargin at £150 (or less - possibly)

the novelty of the spacially-aware controller

it's tiny

... Actually, that's the only things I can think of that are going for it, and that's not really such an impressive list.

The games so far haven't had particularly impressive previews, and many are relying on very old IP that doesn't necessarily have much new to offer other than the new interface. Will that be enough? I've just had a look on Amazon and all the games are being sold for £50 each, which is steep by next-gen standards, but, considering that the technology really only requires last-gen development approaches, that does seem excessive. One of my long-standing issues with Nintendo has been their habit of selling the machines cheaply then the games steeply, and I'm not encouraged by the way that this seems to be a continuing trend.

To add insult to injury, the US prices are half those in the UK - yet again. I'm getting very irritated by the continual disregard given to European territories, and especially the UK, in regards to pricing. Why should we have to pay twice the amount as other countries for the same products?

Bah.

Anyway, the Wii currently stands as a very interesting idea, but also something that could suffer greatly from the difficulty of extended physical play.

I think $ony have screwed up their European release majorly: to allow their main rival a two-year headstart, to charge around £150 more for their console, to allow their biggest IP to slip from the release date, to have continual delays in the launch... It's not good.

Then again, Micro$oft's Xbox 360 hasn't done a lot to convince me of the virtue of next-gen consoles either. There haven't been any games for the system that have really made me think 'wow, I wish I could play that', and nearly a year after launch that's a problem.

Man... I'm really cynical at the moment!

[Spacehappy]

Man... I'm really cynical at the moment!

Same here, i bought my PS2 2 years ago now, i own 6 game for it and tend to play my old playstation games on it more. This is why im dubious on the PS3, one it would be massively overbudget for me and two all my mates now own Xbox 360's (and i only know 1 that will buy a PS3).

Funny thing about the European market too, we get screwed on MMORPG market too.

[bryden42]

Ahhhh the revolution, Have heard of that just not as Wii. *feels not as old* its the one with the funky Motion sesitive 2 part controller right?

[Jonman]

The games so far haven't had particularly impressive previews, and many are relying on very old IP that doesn't necessarily have much new to offer other than the new interface. Will that be enough? I've just had a look on Amazon and all the games are being sold for £50 each, which is steep by next-gen standards, but, considering that the technology really only requires last-gen development approaches, that does seem excessive. One of my long-standing issues with Nintendo has been their habit of selling the machines cheaply then the games steeply, and I'm not encouraged by the way that this seems to be a continuing trend.

Don't believe the prices Amazon quote - they're simply placeholders - Nintendo themselves haven't released any details as to RRPs for the software. The US release date was revealed today as Nov 19th at $250. The European details will be revealed tomorrow. I'm guessing either an early December release, but more likely a February release, at about 175 quid. The Japanese release is on 2nd December, and will retail for 25000 Yen (about 113 quid). I'd be gobsmacked if the games go on at 50 quid - Several of Ninty's head honchos have publicly complained about that being an unsustainable pricepoint. Added to the fact that they're squarely positioning themselves as the cheap option for next-gen - it simply wouldn't make sense to sell the games at a high price point.
Dunno what you mean by them selling sofware expensive. N64, sure, but that's because a cart is a helluva lot more expensive than a CD. Gamecube games were competetively priced - similar to PS2 and Xbox titles. They were in the US anyway (my gamecube's a US machine, so I've mostly ignored the UK Gamecube scene out of necessity). DS games are very reasonably priced, with the maximum being 30 quid.

To add insult to injury, the US prices are half those in the UK - yet again. I'm getting very irritated by the continual disregard given to European territories, and especially the UK, in regards to pricing. Why should we have to pay twice the amount as other countries for the same products?

Because it costs more to distribute goods than it does in the US. Profit margins are similar. But the government and the EU take a bigger slice. Write to your MP and complain.

Anyway, the Wii currently stands as a very interesting idea, but also something that could suffer greatly from the difficulty of extended physical play.

That's a myth - reports from people in devcos who've had access to the hardware for a while say that invariably, the amount of motion required (once you've learnt the controls) would be suitable to slouching in a comfy chair and wiggling your wrist a little.

I think $ony have screwed up their European release majorly: to allow their main rival a two-year headstart, to charge around £150 more for their console, to allow their biggest IP to slip from the release date, to have continual delays in the launch... It's not good.

I dunno. To a certain extent, I feel that the 'Playstation' brand has such strength that they could fill a box full of dead badgers, write 'PS3' on it, charge a kidney for it, and it would still fly off the shelves. You can't deny that to the man on the street, "Playstation" is synonomous with gaming in a way that M$, Xbox, Nintendo or Wii simply isn't.

[Mata]

I don't believe that there are significantly higher distribution costs in Europe when compared to the US. The UK has train links and many ports that allow bulk transport at reasonable rates. I suspect that the difference in prices is partially taxes, as you say, but a greater influence is probably levels of competition: in the UK I don't think there is such a culture of price wars between retailers. Things are enhanced by the current state of the US economy, making it cheaper to buy things in the US due to the exchange rate. This is something I've noticed a lot recently with prices of films and hardware, and the Wii prices (albeit the specualtive ones) hit a sore point!

As I said before, the Wii could suffer greatly from the difficulty of extended physical play. The important word there is 'could'. I'm really not sure what sort of calilbration is going to be possible to allow for people to play tennis games as if they are playing real tennis, or to allow them to play the same game with tiny flicks of the wrist. This is a major challenge to developers, and I will be very interested to see the approaches taken in tackling it.

To put it another way: what's the point in having a controller that can sense 360 degree rotation and spacial movement, when the same result can be achieved through tiny flicks of the wrist? Surely this would leave a huge dead-zone in the control? I'm assuming that the lateral and depth spacial movement will be put into a ratio with the rotation of the controller to give the Wii an idea of the style of play being used, but this still seems imprecise... We'll see! I'm looking forward to finding out more about the machine over the next few months. The first games will be very interesting.

I would count myself a 'loyal' Play$tation gamer. It's the only next-gen machine that I've seriously considered purchasing, but if I'm having my doubts about whether it's worth getting at full price then that doesn't bode well for the casual gamer. If the 360 had any games that I really wanted to play then I might consider getting one of them - they're cheaper (probably a lot cheaper by March), they've got more games, and they've got an established and reliable online service. If the Wii turns out to have some great games then it's going to be an interesting situation: why spend £425 on a PS3 when you could buy a Wii and maybe 6 games for the same price?

The one thing that keeps me with the Play$tation brand these days is the backwards compatibility. I do enjoy bashing through a PS1 game now and then (Kurushi, Medievil, Strider, ect), and I've got lots of PS2 games that I enjoy returning to (I play through the Prince of Persia games at least once a year, for example). For this reason alone I will almost certainly get the PS3, but I had planned to be an early adopter, and now I feel there's been just too much cockiness on the part of $ony.

You're right, the lower half of a flea infested pigeon in a PS3 box would probably sell off the brand alone, but I think I'll be waiting until I see that there's something offered by the system that I really want to play. Heavenly Sword is a good option for this, but it's been a lot of previews and not a lot of substance...

I think that if the Wii does a good job with its games then $ony could experience a far greater challenge than they ever expected. There's lots of variables in play, but at the moment it looks to me that $ony might be in for a bit of a surprise, certainly in Europe at least... They'd better have a superb launch line-up!

[Mata]

The UK price has been announced for the Wii and it's £180, clocking in at a mere £50-60 more than than the US price.

Games will be between £34 and £39, which is again nearly 50% more than the US. Humbug to taxes! (Although 'yay' for having the NHS...)

[Sir Psycho Sexy]

Ubisoft has a lot riding on Wii. The French publisher is poised to take the lion's share of third-party software sales when they ship eight Wii games this calendar year, compared to only two for PlayStation 3.

*sticks tongue out at Mata* ner-ner!

Edit: Oh yeah,On Sony's answer to XBox Live

[Mata]

Don't get me wrong, I'd love for Wii to be superb, and Ubisoft are a production house that I greatly respect. I really think that $ony has mis-stepped with the release of the PS3, but it will only really feel pain from it if the Wii lives up to its promise. All I'm saying is that currently all of the next-gen consoles have drawbacks:

360: lack of a killer-app a year after launch

Wii: too many unknown factors - it probably has the greatest potential to be a runaway success (or to take the company down in flames) out of all three consoles

PS3: the delays, the (currently) tiny launch line-up, the price, the pretty awful box design...

None of them are currently doing much to inspire me to upgrade. The 360 is some ways is in the weakest position because it's had longer to prove itself and hasn't really done so. It's got some good racing games, and some decent FPS games, but nothing essential. If I had the space I would have probably got myself an Xbox for Stranger's Wrath and Halo, but 360 doesn't have anything that currently projects those levels of excellence.

I fully expect to end up with a PS3 and possibly a Wii. The former due to it playing old PS2 and PS1 games as well as allowing me to buy new releases, and the latter depends on what standard the games are. Despite this, neither looks like something that I'm going to be jumping at buying right away, and I'll be considering carefully before the purchases.

[Sir Psycho Sexy]

Don't forget the Wii will also have backward compatability with all the Gamecube games as well as downloadable versions of games from every Nintendo Console AND selected Sega Megadrive (Genesis) games. (Yay classic Sonic!)

[Spacehappy]

Don't forget the Wii will also have backward compatability with all the Gamecube games as well as downloadable versions of games from every Nintendo Console AND selected Sega Megadrive (Genesis) games. (Yay classic Sonic!)

Finding that out just made me Wii my pants.

If it is possible to download zelda from the N64 ect, i'm definatly buying one.

[Mata]

Nintendo haven't been very open about the nature of their online download service, but it is definitely a good addition to the machine. Have they said anywhere how the downloaded content will be stored? I assume the machine has a hard-drive, but I've not seen any mention of this.

I'm looking forward to playing Goldeneye again; I only had a fairly quick go on it on the N64, and Perfect Dark's reputation makes it interesting too. I hope the 'normal' controller is more comfortable than the current GameCube controller!

[Sir Psycho Sexy]

CPU IBM Broadway 729MHz
Internal Storage 512MB Flash Memory
GPU ATI Hollywood
Optical Disc Drive 8cm GameCube/12cm Wii
Supported Resolution: up to 480p
12cm Disc Capacity 4.7GB (single) / 8.5GB (dual)
System Memory Unknown
Memory Expansion 2 SD Memory
Wii Controller Ports Wireless (4 minimum)
Internet Connectivity WiFi 802.11b/g
GameCube Controller Ports 4 Ports
Disc Compatibility GameCube
GameCube Memory Expansion 2 Ports
USB 2.0 2 Ports
Downloadable Content NES, SNES, N64, Sega Genesis, Turbo Grafx

Taken from: http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=140981

Edit: European release seems to be scheduled for 8th December....seems to be...
http://ms.nintendo-europe.com/wii/?l=enGB?...nfo.html&l=enGB

[Mata]

512MB of Flash memory? That's a bit pants really, isn't it? Still, you can fit a fair amount of games on there, just nowhere near as many as I already own for the SNES and Mega Drive!

[michael1384]

Thats it i'm getting a Wii

[Mata]

Probably the most interesting game that I've seen lined up for the Wii is Far Cry. It's a very under-powered system to run the graphics, but if they make it work then it could be superb.

The 360 finally looks like it might be getting a title that really appeals to me: Crackdown has a lot of potential to do some really fun things. Apparently the whole world is there, but the balancing is going to be a real pain. That's the kind of issue that could make or break the game, but it's the first game for the system that has really caught my eye. If the 360 has a good Christmas line-up then $ony may be a bit surprised about the results of their launch.

[Sir Psycho Sexy]

512MB of Flash memory? That's a bit pants really, isn't it? Still, you can fit a fair amount of games on there, just nowhere near as many as I already own for the SNES and Mega Drive!

It's not much, but bear in mind that cartridge games weren't big, I don't think even the biggest N64 games (notably the Zelda ones) were much more than a few meg, plus it has USB ports, so I'm betting you can use flash drives...hopefully.

[Mata]

I'm pretty sure that some of the later SNES and Mega Drive games had expansions to 32MB, hence my surprise at only 512MB of Flash memory. Then again, they're probably compressed with modern techniques so may well be considerably smaller than that.

I've been thinking about this, and I probably was a bit hasty in my response, I'm sure Nintendo have thought about it, but it still doesn't seem much at all by modern standards. I hope it's swappable, or upgradable if needs be.

[mooooooooooopo]

Guess who gets to play with a PS3 devkit pretty soon.

Yay for work!

*flees*