 Revised Pledge of Allegiance |
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 Oct 26 2009, 10:26 PM
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#26
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 I could have written a short novel by this point  Group: Established Members Posts: 1,579 Joined: 4-August 08 Member No.: 12,759 Gender: Secret  |
Uh-huh. Okay. Pretty much through here.
Got anything for my "Three, okay, if you agree (or, I think you do?) that the pledge shouldn't be in schools... Do you want to actually help improve my argument/think up one of your own, so we actually get somewhere instead of internet-fighting each other, taking up a crapton of time and accomplishing nothing?" bit? -------------------- Every atom in your body came from a star that exploded. And, the atoms in your left hand probably came from a different star than your right hand. It really is the most poetic thing I know about physics: You are all stardust. You couldn’t be here if stars hadn’t exploded, because the elements - the carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, iron, all the things that matter for evolution and for life - weren’t created at the beginning of time. They were created in the nuclear furnaces of stars, and the only way for them to get into your body is if those stars were kind enough to explode. So, forget God. The stars died so that you could be here today. ~Lawrence Krauss
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Oct 26 2009, 10:33 PM
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#27
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 suggestive cupcake Group: Admin Posts: 6,435 Joined: 21-April 03 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 260 Gender: Female |
Nope. Like I said, I don't necessarily think the pledge should be in schools, but I have the same stance I always have - I don't care. Saying 'under God' did nothing to or for my religious choices in life, I feel about the state of affairs in this country the same as I would have had I said your pledge, and 90% of the time, I was tired, so I enjoyed the extra ten seconds sitting and spacing out thanks to my choice to refuse. Sorry.
 And personally, I do feel we've accomplished something. At least you have. You have to at least be a little stronger and clearer in your convictions now that you've had them nit-picked to death. You're welcome~ -------------------- i'm like oh kimosabe, your body is my hobby    the official 'you bitch' count: a whole lot last updated 11/05 |
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Oct 26 2009, 10:38 PM
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#28
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I could have written a short novel by this point Group: Established Members Posts: 1,579 Joined: 4-August 08 Member No.: 12,759 Gender: Secret |
QUOTE (syuu @ Oct 26 2009, 06:33 PM)  And personally, I do feel we've accomplished something. At least you have. You have to at least be a little stronger and clearer in your convictions now that you've had them nit-picked to death. You're welcome~ Lmao. Thanks. Now I can just tactfully reword everything, maybe give it some more thought, start a petition, get a bunch of people to sign off on on, and present it to the administration. Luckily for me, they don't know my views on religion, and certainly not to the extent that the people that have been reading the issues forum on here do, so that may give me the upper hand. Oh, and you have made me realize something. I won't accept just the "under God" removed anymore. 
-------------------- Every atom in your body came from a star that exploded. And, the atoms in your left hand probably came from a different star than your right hand. It really is the most poetic thing I know about physics: You are all stardust. You couldn’t be here if stars hadn’t exploded, because the elements - the carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, iron, all the things that matter for evolution and for life - weren’t created at the beginning of time. They were created in the nuclear furnaces of stars, and the only way for them to get into your body is if those stars were kind enough to explode. So, forget God. The stars died so that you could be here today. ~Lawrence Krauss
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Oct 26 2009, 10:44 PM
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#29
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 living in your basement, eating your candy hearts Group: Established Members Posts: 3,418 Joined: 23-February 04 From: cloud cuckoo land Member No.: 959 Gender: Female |
Just a sidenote: Izzy, do 30 people really come up and ask you why you aren't saying the pledge? I stopped saying it after a while, and I don't think anybody really questioned me. And if people do... so what? agreements and disagreements exist in school all the time, especially on a political basis. If you really don't want to say the pledge that badly, then don't say it. I mean, you don't rein in your religious criticism just because other people criticize you for it and ask you about it, right? I would think that wouldn't be different.
-------------------- Being corrupted by candice since 2004
teal and orange is the way forward |
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Oct 26 2009, 11:27 PM
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#30
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I could have written a short novel by this point Group: Established Members Posts: 1,579 Joined: 4-August 08 Member No.: 12,759 Gender: Secret |
About 8-10 have asked me why I don't say the pledge, one of them going full blown "Hey, show some respect for your country. This is AMERICA, you know." Seriously though, like 30 people today asked me why I wasn't wearing the "I pledge to be drug free." bracelet that we got during first period. (Red Ribbon Week ftl.) I told them I didn't agree with it. They asked me if I was on drugs. I said no, I just didn't agree with it. They didn't seem able to understand how someone not on drugs could think that. "So.. you don't agree with it because you're taking drugs?" "No, dude, I just don't agree with it because I people should have the choice to do what they want." "Oh, so you want to take drugs?" "No, eugh, forget it." "(Somewhat jokingly) Druggie." "Eugh."
Haha, just remembered first period, actually. French teacher passed them out. Noticed some people didn't put them on. "You guys know you're supposed to wear those right?" And since I'm in front of him: "On your wrist. It's a bracelet." Umm.. Yeah. "So put it on." Umm. I think it looks prettier decorating my back pack... So I tried putting it on my friend, who already had one on. Apparently it's 'gay' to wear two? But yeah. -------------------- Every atom in your body came from a star that exploded. And, the atoms in your left hand probably came from a different star than your right hand. It really is the most poetic thing I know about physics: You are all stardust. You couldn’t be here if stars hadn’t exploded, because the elements - the carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, iron, all the things that matter for evolution and for life - weren’t created at the beginning of time. They were created in the nuclear furnaces of stars, and the only way for them to get into your body is if those stars were kind enough to explode. So, forget God. The stars died so that you could be here today. ~Lawrence Krauss
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Oct 26 2009, 11:33 PM
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#31
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suggestive cupcake Group: Admin Posts: 6,435 Joined: 21-April 03 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 260 Gender: Female |
O/T:
I'm going to let my new icon talk for me. /O/T -------------------- i'm like oh kimosabe, your body is my hobby the official 'you bitch' count: a whole lot last updated 11/05 |
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Oct 26 2009, 11:54 PM
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#32
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I could have written a short novel by this point Group: Established Members Posts: 1,579 Joined: 4-August 08 Member No.: 12,759 Gender: Secret |
....Wait... at me or the people I go to school with..?
-------------------- Every atom in your body came from a star that exploded. And, the atoms in your left hand probably came from a different star than your right hand. It really is the most poetic thing I know about physics: You are all stardust. You couldn’t be here if stars hadn’t exploded, because the elements - the carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, iron, all the things that matter for evolution and for life - weren’t created at the beginning of time. They were created in the nuclear furnaces of stars, and the only way for them to get into your body is if those stars were kind enough to explode. So, forget God. The stars died so that you could be here today. ~Lawrence Krauss
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Oct 26 2009, 11:55 PM
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#33
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suggestive cupcake Group: Admin Posts: 6,435 Joined: 21-April 03 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 260 Gender: Female |
A little from column A, a little from column B...
-------------------- i'm like oh kimosabe, your body is my hobby the official 'you bitch' count: a whole lot last updated 11/05 |
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Oct 27 2009, 12:48 AM
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#34
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 Wait for the uprising Group: Established Members Posts: 3,177 Joined: 7-April 05 From: In a cave in Scotland Member No.: 1,735 Gender: Female |
Woah... I should pay more attention to the boards, daily.
This reminds me a little of in primary school when we prayed in assembly. I never used to join in but instead sat the quietly and twiddled my thumbs. I don't have much to say about the pledge, as it seems weird to me anyway but... Izzy, it is nice to see that you're angry about stuff enough to want to change things. So many people sit there in their day to day lives, complaining about stuff without feeling that either they can change it or even wanting to expend the effort to do so. Unfortunately, I don't think you have enough clout behind you, especially thanks to the WASP history of America, but you may be able to go some way to change how things work in your school if you work hard and do it in a mature and sensible way. Good luck! -------------------- We are unraveling our navels so that we may ingest the sun. DARIA IZ GOOD ON TOAST TOAST IZ GOOD ON DARIA |
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Oct 27 2009, 01:15 AM
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#35
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I could have written a short novel by this point Group: Established Members Posts: 1,579 Joined: 4-August 08 Member No.: 12,759 Gender: Secret |
Thanks.
-------------------- Every atom in your body came from a star that exploded. And, the atoms in your left hand probably came from a different star than your right hand. It really is the most poetic thing I know about physics: You are all stardust. You couldn’t be here if stars hadn’t exploded, because the elements - the carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, iron, all the things that matter for evolution and for life - weren’t created at the beginning of time. They were created in the nuclear furnaces of stars, and the only way for them to get into your body is if those stars were kind enough to explode. So, forget God. The stars died so that you could be here today. ~Lawrence Krauss
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Oct 27 2009, 06:41 AM
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#36
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 Group: Moderators Posts: 1,767 Joined: 9-June 03 From: North Carolina Member No.: 374 Gender: Male |
Sometimes I like to think of Jesus as the guy who invented high-fives.
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Nov 26 2009, 03:35 AM
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#37
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I could have written a short novel by this point Group: Established Members Posts: 1,579 Joined: 4-August 08 Member No.: 12,759 Gender: Secret |
Anyone up for one final nitpick? Typed this up today while waiting for some friends to show up..
As a student, I have been led to believe that schools are institutions that exist to instill education and good moral conduct into its students, without swaying or impacting the political or religious affiliations of those in attendance. While the schools I have gone to in my life, including <name of my current school>, have done an excellent job of maintaining a neutral atmosphere in regards to politics, it has come to my attention that some students are much less than satisfied with how the Pledge of Allegiance is administered. This has nothing to do with anti-American, anti-government, anti-justice-for-all, etc. feelings. Simply, because schools are meant to stay impartial on the matters that can influence the opinions of its students, we feel by there being a Pledge of Allegiance with mandatory presence/standing, the views of the government (as this a district problem, not merely one from our school) are being unfairly forced upon us. Certain aspects of one's life, such as what one believes in and where one's loyalties lie, should be determined within the household and with one's parents, not taught and practiced within schools. By all means, TEACH the pledge, its meaning, and its importance to American history/culture/society, but to demand students actively participate (even respectfully declining, in essence, is still participation, just by presence) is in all respects, unconstitutional. Again, it is not the actual content of the pledge we have problems with, it's the fact that the school openly chooses one side, sort of like the school defining itself as liberal or conservative, and before children even begin to comprehend the meaning of the pledge, they've been saying it for years. It's unfair, unjustified, indoctrination. With all due respect, the pledge is inappropriate in schools in the same sense that instructional time set aside for coordinated group prayer is. While perfectly acceptable at home or in extracurricular student organizations, it has been deemed unsuitable for students to be preached to by their instructors because of our multi-cultural environment and varying degrees of religiousness. We are open to alternatives for the pledge. For example, rather than setting class time aside for it, students who wish to take the pledge can, for the twenty seconds it takes to say it, meet up before school much the same way the faith-based student group we have meets and prays in the mornings. By doing so, everyone is happy, and those that wish to opt out no longer have to feel awkward about it because it will no longer be a classroom issue. I trust you will take our issue into consideration and make the right choice, which I caution you is not always the popular one. Kind regards, Izzy <last name> Below you will find attached a list of students who share my concern. <list of people> -------------------- Every atom in your body came from a star that exploded. And, the atoms in your left hand probably came from a different star than your right hand. It really is the most poetic thing I know about physics: You are all stardust. You couldn’t be here if stars hadn’t exploded, because the elements - the carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, iron, all the things that matter for evolution and for life - weren’t created at the beginning of time. They were created in the nuclear furnaces of stars, and the only way for them to get into your body is if those stars were kind enough to explode. So, forget God. The stars died so that you could be here today. ~Lawrence Krauss
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Nov 26 2009, 06:04 AM
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#38
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suggestive cupcake Group: Admin Posts: 6,435 Joined: 21-April 03 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 260 Gender: Female |
I can see traces of our argument in it, and I'm glad it helped you clarify what you mean more.
-------------------- i'm like oh kimosabe, your body is my hobby the official 'you bitch' count: a whole lot last updated 11/05 |
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