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Sir Maxerpopple
Posted on: Jun 1 2005, 01:36 AM


Is conformity, consumption, and obedience really that bad?
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To prove I still exist on this forum, recent books:

--The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, by Douglas Adams: I doubt I need to say much here but it's brilliantly funny, if you like that kind of humor.

--Naked Luch, by William Burroughs: Beautifully written filth. The hallucinations of a drug addict--everything bursts into ectoplasm or some disgusting liquid. Lots of rape and general vomit-inducing material. Great social commentary, and very well written.

--Man's Search for Meaning, by Viktor Frankl: An Auschwitz survivor and psychotherapist explains the tenets of logotherapy, also known as existential psychology. Very easy to read, very important to read as well.

--J.B., by Archibald MacLeish: A play taking a modern spin on the Book of Job. An exploration into how we deal with suffering and what we should do when bad things happen for no apparent reason. Brilliantly written, very powerful play. Pullitzer prize winner, to boot.

--The Wanting Seed, by Anthony Burgess: "A Malthusian comedy about the strange world that overpopulation will produce," or so the back of the book says. I didn't find it incredibly funny; there were some good parts, and maybe I'm just not getting it. Towards the end the book picks up and becomes worthwhile, but you still have to read 230 pages of bore to get to that point.

--If On A Winter's Night A Traveller, by Italo Calvino: A novel about writing that breaks all the rules of narrative and actually has you reading the beginnings of various novels on a surreal adventure to find love and literature. People will either love it or hate it. I loved it.

--No Logo, by Naomi Klein: A book discussing how corporate branding operates and who is fighting it. I've just started it, and it's great.
  Forum: Media · Post Preview: #296236 · Replies: 1179 · Views: 210,671

Sir Maxerpopple
Posted on: Feb 1 2005, 11:44 PM


Is conformity, consumption, and obedience really that bad?
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QUOTE (CommieBastard @ Jan 31 2005, 04:18 PM)
QUOTE (Sir Maxerpopple @ Jan 28 2005, 08:47 PM)
But the way it's presented is different.  In the states, at least, when there is news of death it's usually staistics or a very brief interview with someone who although is clearly devastated, is not presented well.  Then they snap right to the White House.  Moore has no sound in the backround, makes it go for an extensive amount of time, and follows it up by showing a man holding the charred corpse of an infant, then seemingly tossing it into debris asking what it did wrong.  That's a lot more powerful than what you see on the news.

Death as a statistic is one thing, when they presented it like that, showing that one angry woman wishing death on america via allah, it spoke a great deal.
*


The statistics are simple facts. Moore's presentation takes those facts and twists them into intellectual dishonesty. Any and all tricks of presentation such as he uses are just attempts to distort the truth. Moore has the talent to be more than the ultra-left-liberal Fox.
*

Of course, he has to. It's dirty politics, it's cheap, and it is degrading to democracy. It's also something liberals are going to have to start doing if they want to have power in the national government again.
  Forum: Media · Post Preview: #272733 · Replies: 65 · Views: 4,559

Sir Maxerpopple
Posted on: Jan 28 2005, 08:47 PM


Is conformity, consumption, and obedience really that bad?
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QUOTE (CommieBastard @ Jan 28 2005, 01:11 PM)
And - forced to think more about? Could be you're getting different news sources than I am, but nary a couple of days has gone by since hostilities commenced that I wasn't presented with news of deaths. Honestly, it's not exactly being covered up, we've been bombarded with images of people dying since day one. It's hardly revelation.
*
But the way it's presented is different. In the states, at least, when there is news of death it's usually staistics or a very brief interview with someone who although is clearly devastated, is not presented well. Then they snap right to the White House. Moore has no sound in the backround, makes it go for an extensive amount of time, and follows it up by showing a man holding the charred corpse of an infant, then seemingly tossing it into debris asking what it did wrong. That's a lot more powerful than what you see on the news.

Death as a statistic is one thing, when they presented it like that, showing that one angry woman wishing death on america via allah, it spoke a great deal.
  Forum: Media · Post Preview: #271436 · Replies: 65 · Views: 4,559

Sir Maxerpopple
Posted on: Jan 28 2005, 01:57 AM


Is conformity, consumption, and obedience really that bad?
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From a purely cinematic standpoint, it ran too long. I started to get bored, only because it's just one tragic thing after the other.

My favorite parts were when he read the USA PATRIOT act to congress in the ice cream truck and when he tried to get the congressmen to sign up their children for the military. Regardless of your political persuasion, the fact that congressmen don't read most of the bills should shock you. For me, that was the most disturbing.

I thought the orwell quote at the end was rather...melodramatic. But, I used the quote in an essay contest the week after (I saw the movie a few weeks ago), and it did fit. So thank you, Mr. Moore.
  Forum: Media · Post Preview: #271059 · Replies: 65 · Views: 4,559

Sir Maxerpopple
Posted on: Jan 23 2005, 04:29 PM


Is conformity, consumption, and obedience really that bad?
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QUOTE
Guerillas generally do not have great means, but their aim is for social reform and they continue on to win, not to prolong terror.
Terrorists have a goal--their goal is not to keep terror permanent. Al Quaeda wants to see the West (particularly america) destroyed. What I am saying is that neither of these forces need to win large battles--take for example the american revolution. The patriots fought with the mindset of "live to fight another day", whereas the british (the more conventional army) was not so concerned with mere survival. When you're dealing with small resources, that's how you win. Keep fighting 'till the opposing force goes home or dies. In both vietnam and the american revolution, the americans and british respectively could have fought for longer, but got tired of it.
QUOTE
Terrorists are generally of much resouces, that's why we were looking for WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION in Iraq. Note the MASS DESTRUCTION.
What makes you think terrorists have a lot of means? True, there are some very rich sponsors such as the saudis, sadam (arguably), and the bin laden family, but that's the only reason why these terrorists can afford nuclear weapons. Terrorists such as the PLO are not rich by anyone's standards--they use suicide bombs that are fairly easy to construct (you can find instructions on the web). Terrorists are recently becoming more low-tech, since they realized that western dominance of the information age will reveal their strategies if they plan too much on the internet. The 9/11 terrorists used airplanes they hijacked. The few terrorist organizations that have money are the exception, not the rule. The only reason most of them have weapons is because someone gave them weapons (either america or the USSR).
QUOTE
If terrorists just ran around throwing sticks and hiding in bushes, then there wouldn't be a war on terror now would there?
Small bombs are both cheap and effective. No terrorist HAS used a WMD, yet small bombs go off in embassises all the time.
QUOTE
It would also be rape
Not necessarily. It is just an aphrodisiac that 1) would affect both parties most likely and 2) would not necessarily lead to forceful rape.
QUOTE
raping people is wrong
Would you rather be raped or dead?
QUOTE
if you got raped in the bum and it was someone's fault that you were in a war with, I bet you would kill as many people as possible.
Really? I'd run home with my tail between my legs and do some serious praying/reflecting. But by that time the americans would have secured the position and I would be under arrest.
  Forum: The Issues Forum · Post Preview: #270317 · Replies: 43 · Views: 8,606

Sir Maxerpopple
Posted on: Jan 22 2005, 12:06 PM


Is conformity, consumption, and obedience really that bad?
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Less violent, rather. Ideally the opposing force would disband the enemy completely and let our side go through.
  Forum: The Issues Forum · Post Preview: #269883 · Replies: 43 · Views: 8,606

Sir Maxerpopple
Posted on: Jan 22 2005, 01:39 AM


Is conformity, consumption, and obedience really that bad?
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QUOTE
Your definition just allows for that tatic as an approved option.
What do you mean by my definition?
QUOTE
I wasn't comparing to the two as equal evils, though.. so I'm not sure thats really the point.
You used the analogy, I believe, to show the dangers of the philosophy of ends justifying means. But that analogy doesn't prove or disprove the issue at hand (homosexuality drugs). If you weren't trying to, then that's the end of that. If you were (as it seemed to me), then I find the analogy misleading.
QUOTE
That we've made some improvements doesn't prove its a good thing to base decisions off of or that we're always right.
No it does not, and I'm not saying america is in the clear.
QUOTE
Again, I'm not as sure. It seems to me that believing things like justification or consquences to the world are irrelevant, is a big part of why and how America got into Iraq. Some research that was flawed, people being angry and wham. A war in which that we still haven't been able to prove the WMD's existed as the American public and others were told. Concerns and dissenting voices were ignored. Were some biased? Certainly, but some have proven to be correct as well.
It's irrelevant to the discussion at hand. How parts of the world views ends justifying the means doesn't matter; the discussion here is about whether homosexuality drugs are ends justifying the means.

I have the feeling this discussion is becoming cloudy and that we are misunderstanding each other.
  Forum: The Issues Forum · Post Preview: #269817 · Replies: 43 · Views: 8,606

Sir Maxerpopple
Posted on: Jan 22 2005, 12:46 AM


Is conformity, consumption, and obedience really that bad?
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My objection is that torture and massive deaths are clearly different than ruining some families with homosexuality drugs. The analogy therefore has fault when attacking ends justifying means. In the case of torture and murder, yes there could be a case where the ends don't justify the means. But if all we have to lose from this is maybe ruining a few families, I simply don't care. The analogy fails because it isn't close enough to the situation at hand.

Whether or not ends justifying the means is too extreme for the world is irrelevant.

We are being careful in what we're promoting--non-violent wars. It was when we were promoting biological and chemical weapons that was a problem.
  Forum: The Issues Forum · Post Preview: #269810 · Replies: 43 · Views: 8,606

Sir Maxerpopple
Posted on: Jan 21 2005, 11:01 PM


Is conformity, consumption, and obedience really that bad?
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QUOTE
The tactics are different - guerrilla warfare does the most damage with the least amount of resources, while terrorism requires high profile attacks - they use as much of their resources as they can.
True. But, their resources are rarely alot. Additionally, while their targets might be different as in the example you have cited, that fails in two regards. First, when terrorists are fighting on home soil. The high profile targets are few in number. Secondly, while there are some differences, there is a fundamental difference between modern armies as opposed to terrorists and guerillas. Terrorists and guerrillas do not have large numbers or weapons, so they have the basic philosophy of "not having to win the war, just continue it; not have large confrontations but smaller tactical strikes." I concede that there are differences between the two, but the tactics when compared to modern military tactics quite similar.
QUOTE
the ends do not always justify the means.
And in this instance they do. So what if they have relationship problems later on. This isn't torture, at most it's destroying families, which I don't have a problem with, considering this is a war. If that's the only thing you can say is a consequence of the practice, the ends absolutely justify the means. Especially if they are people trying to kill american soldiers who only want to go home. If I have to choose between sending an american who doesn't want to fight to a warzone or ruining the social lives of the families of those aiming to kill the americans, the choice seems pretty clear.
QUOTE
A mass bombing of oh, pakistan's mountains to kill terrorists, therefore justifying the slaughter of people caught in the line of fire for example. Now, thats just an example (and deliberately extreme) and I know/hope most people wouldn't agree or support such tactics.
It is too extreme. Too extreme to apply as a valid analogy.
  Forum: The Issues Forum · Post Preview: #269776 · Replies: 43 · Views: 8,606

Sir Maxerpopple
Posted on: Jan 21 2005, 09:48 PM


Is conformity, consumption, and obedience really that bad?
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QUOTE
That's not entirely true, while a terrorist can use guerrilla warfare to accomplish their goals, the main goal of a terrorist is to inflict terror.
I'm not referring to reasons and motivations, but rather tactics.

As for whether the tactic is moral, I don't really care if
QUOTE
you were drugged and had sex with your best friend, especially if you felt it was wrong for any reason (social, religious, marital, among others)?
or if
QUOTE
broken households, children emotionally hurt by their parents because of it, ostrichization from the community - possibly on the level of the infamous "untouchables" of the indian caste system
are created. We are saving lives on both sides, and I think that's admirable in and of itself.

As for
QUOTE
3 - Opening up use of similar chemicals for domestic use, which would have the same consequences stated above, and be used by Americans on Americans.
all I have to say is that is always a risk of that. Keeping this in military rather than private sector control could stop that from happening. What if, perhaps, we started using predator drones to spy on americans? There's always a possibility, the key is to minimize it.
  Forum: The Issues Forum · Post Preview: #269751 · Replies: 43 · Views: 8,606

Sir Maxerpopple
Posted on: Jan 21 2005, 02:51 AM


Is conformity, consumption, and obedience really that bad?
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QUOTE
So you're saying Sir Maxerpopple, that you would have sex with anything if the drug was powerful enough? I doubt it.
Are you a biochemist? The aphrodisiac could easily play with your mind to make you both very sexual and very open to suggestion--meaning you will be attracted to the first person you see. You'll have to excuse me if I side with the biochemists here and not you, considering they did the preliminary research. If they knew it was impossible, would they suggest it?
QUOTE
And what makes you think Iraqis and Vietnamese have the "same tatics and attitudes to homosexuality?" Also, terrorists and guerillas are very different. You should do some research. Especially on the terrorist and guerilla thing.
Same tactics. Let's discuss guerrillas and terrorists. Both are inferior in numbers, technology, and logistics. Both strategies focus on making small key strikes, not fighting in the open, and not having to win large battles to win the war. They just need to survive until the opponent gets tired. To quote pgrmdave and his definition,
QUOTE
Guerrilla:
A member of an irregular, usually indigenous military or paramilitary unit operating in small bands in occupied territory to harass and undermine the enemy, as by surprise raids.
that is what a terrorist is. Maybe you should look at the vietnamese tactics and the iraqi insurgents today. Despite technological changes, they are rather similar. As for attitudes towards homosexuality, while I am no expert anthropologist, I can tell you that most cultures view homosexuality the same way--as a taboo. When you get into third world nations and regions, this is magnified in comparison to a metropolitan city.
QUOTE
My man Che is nothing like Mr. Osama that's for sure, in warfare or mindset.
They were both self-righteous to consider themselves semi-divine, whether the source of that divinity is allah or the proletariat.
QUOTE
No, but some guerilla fighters stoop to tactics that are no better.
The japanese threw manchurian babies in the air and caught them on their bayonets during WW2. Real nice tactics there.
  Forum: The Issues Forum · Post Preview: #269556 · Replies: 43 · Views: 8,606

Sir Maxerpopple
Posted on: Jan 17 2005, 05:30 PM


Is conformity, consumption, and obedience really that bad?
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If you would like to lenghten it, I would maybe expand on stanzas 6 through 9. It could be longer, because your set up is lengthy, which is fine. But stanzas 6 through 9 sounded a lot like the books my sister has (she is two). The rhyming at times is a wee bit odd, but nothing that takes away from the book (I doubt a reader in the target demographic would care). Could use some tweaking, but I can imagine my sister pulling out that book and handing it to someone to read to her.
QUOTE
Oh nonononononononooooooo! I can't draw worth BEANS! Seriously.
Neither could Saint Exupery, and people worship him. He wrote the little prince.
  Forum: Creations · Post Preview: #268530 · Replies: 17 · Views: 4,185

Sir Maxerpopple
Posted on: Jan 17 2005, 04:31 PM


Is conformity, consumption, and obedience really that bad?
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QUOTE
I'm mostly offended about the fact that these scientists who I'm sure are paid quite a lot of money out of my taxes think that people in other countries are so much like animals that if aroused enough they will just go against their personal beliefs and start engaging in homosexual sex. If you are turned on, but no one is around but your dog, do you then have sex with your dog? No, not unless you're into that sort of thing and if you are I don't need to know. I just think that this notion is short sighted.
Not if you are being influenced by a powerful drug.
QUOTE
One last thing, I know that America is currently bullying Iraq and lately the Middle East in general, but why do you all seem to assume these new weapons are being designed to use solely on Muslims and in the Middle East because that is not mentioned in the article at all?
The armies america has been fighting recently (since vietnam) have basically been the same--either guerrilla fighters or terrorists. While there are cultural differences, the tactics and attitudes to homosexuality are largely the same.
  Forum: The Issues Forum · Post Preview: #268511 · Replies: 43 · Views: 8,606

Sir Maxerpopple
Posted on: Jan 17 2005, 03:25 AM


Is conformity, consumption, and obedience really that bad?
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QUOTE
Its not in finding a non-violent method. Its not in doing innovative and good research. Its something that army finds distateful enough to ban mention of (don't ask, don't tell) is being seen as one of the possibilites as a weapon against the enemy.
It would be naive for me to say there is no connection. There probably is. Here's the thing--I don't care. There is another and very logical explanation as to why they are using this--horny soldiers could be more disorderly. It's also very probable that if these armies had more women in them, the sexuality wouldn't matter. However they aren't. These armies are mostly (if not entirely) male. Therefore by necessity, the horny attraction must be homosexual. This is innovation, and whether there may be ulterior motives or not is irrelevant.
QUOTE
What I'm not hearing, is any outrage at the armies assumption that gay troops would somehow provide less opposition than straight ones, aphrodisiac, or no.
How can you say "aphrodisiac or no"? It makes all the difference. Straight or gay doesn't matter--horny does. Because these armies are male, it is necessary the chemicals induce homosexual eroticism. Gay greek armies were not horny in battle.
  Forum: The Issues Forum · Post Preview: #268299 · Replies: 43 · Views: 8,606

Sir Maxerpopple
Posted on: Jan 17 2005, 12:23 AM


Is conformity, consumption, and obedience really that bad?
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QUOTE
When I watch America try to claim the moral high ground, I believe they need to follow through.
And we are by investigating non-violent and even painless ways of defeating the enemy.
QUOTE
I do find the suggestion that I had a preference for killing people to be offensive
I was not suggesting you do, I was asking you if you prefer violent means to non-violent ones. These new ideas are revolutionary for the usually traditional armed forces. When they innovate, it's usually to find a faster way to kill people, not a way to avoid killing people. And this isn't even painful.
QUOTE
among many possibilites
There were other possibilities expressed in the article, such as giving enemies bad breath and making them attractive to biting insects.
  Forum: The Issues Forum · Post Preview: #268247 · Replies: 43 · Views: 8,606

Sir Maxerpopple
Posted on: Jan 16 2005, 11:27 PM


Is conformity, consumption, and obedience really that bad?
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This seems whiney. Everyone bashes the army for killing people. Now there is a less than lethal way of doing it. No agent orange, no gulf war syndrome--harmless. It is a way to create disorder, and it does it in a completely non-violent way. It isn't discriminatory, and to think so is hypersensitivity. Or would you prefer we bomb them and potentially kill innocent civilians?
  Forum: The Issues Forum · Post Preview: #268226 · Replies: 43 · Views: 8,606

Sir Maxerpopple
Posted on: Jan 4 2005, 01:16 AM


Is conformity, consumption, and obedience really that bad?
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Which is exactly why I call it a model, not a rule. Many moral beliefs of people coincide, but this is coincidential due to how humans are. The diversity of people creates this disparity and thus the constant is not always so...constant.
  Forum: The Issues Forum · Post Preview: #264574 · Replies: 16 · Views: 4,096

Sir Maxerpopple
Posted on: Jan 4 2005, 01:07 AM


Is conformity, consumption, and obedience really that bad?
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QUOTE (CommieBastard @ Jan 3 2005, 07:51 PM)
Sir Max, can you explain the term "Universal Moral Constant", please?
*
Going with the way Xeno has it, it is the model of a basic morality that is common to people. Such as, "cannibalism is a moral evil" is a universal moral constant, as it is almost universally accepted. The Universal Moral Constant, or at least how I see it, is a model for what humans regard as moral or immoral based upon the fact of being human.
  Forum: The Issues Forum · Post Preview: #264571 · Replies: 16 · Views: 4,096

Sir Maxerpopple
Posted on: Jan 3 2005, 10:51 PM


Is conformity, consumption, and obedience really that bad?
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When looking at cultural relativism, it is really just a system of ethical classification. Humans have many similar attributes and our morality reflects this. The Universal Moral Constant is in many ways applicable--for example almost every society deems cannibalism immoral, murder is generally held as wrong, etc. These can be traced to social evolution or arguably even genetics. Regardless, they are fairly constant.

However, while these bases are almost universal, the natural differences in humans from experience and genetics create gaps in people's moralities. The cultural relativism standpoint is that different cultures have different moral codes, and while this is true, it goes deeper. Taken to its logical conclusion, every person sort of develops their own culture based upon their experiences. Just as a society creates a culture from the world around it and the people inside it, a person creates a personal culture from the world around him/her and the people around him/her. Everyone has their own morality--often times they coincide based on culture or the Universal Moral Constant. However each person develops their own morality, just like a society as a whole, regardless of how similar or different to others it may be.

Now that that's settled...

I view a moral system much like Tomoyo--it is created by people to control people's actions. A moral system has a goal--be it happiness, stability, survival, whatever it may be. An action that would be deemed morally good for the purpose of stability could be deemed morally bad for the system of happiness (such as female genital mutiliation). Therefore an action cannot be absolutely good or bad if it is for a different moral system, and therefore I do not see how moral absolutism can exist here.

As a created system, morality is subjective. It is not like a stone or a puddle or a tree--those things are matter, they exist in set forms and (regardless of how our senses and minds interpret them) are the same to you as they are to me. Morality is a creation of the mind, and different minds produce different creations--this is why there is more than just one painting or one sculpture (or one set of them).

The Universal Moral Constant is a model, not a rule, which means it is only coincidental that people's moralities match in many ways (even if the odds greatly favor this). At its heart, morality as a subjective creation is subject to individual interpretation.

So I think it is clear that if there are two different moral systems in two different places created by different people, something can be a moral good in one and a moral evil in the other.

And I do
QUOTE
condone female genital mutilation, slavery, religious oppression and the murder of homosexuals as acceptable under local cultural norms.
but instead of local cultural norms I look at it in the proper sense, individual moralities (just as the Universal Moral Constant is an abstract model, so is a society and culture). I recognize that the person committing the act believesthey are doing a moral good. I also recognize that the person receiving the act could believe something different. Whether I consider it right because others do is a different matter. I don't think relativism is saying "If only one person thinks it's right, it's right and I can do it because it is a cultural norm somewhere" (if this is what the absolutists are attacking, well then I apologize for this lengthy post. I interpret moral relativism (cultural or individual) as recognizing that moral systems are subjective and an absolute does not exist in a created system as people are different.
  Forum: The Issues Forum · Post Preview: #264505 · Replies: 16 · Views: 4,096

Sir Maxerpopple
Posted on: Dec 23 2004, 09:49 PM


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I'd have to say Krark is tied with Brother Black Sheep and Snaffleburger as my favorites. Krark was purely delightful, in an almost nihilistic way.

<lurk mode>
  Forum: About the animations · Post Preview: #262716 · Replies: 44 · Views: 14,584

Sir Maxerpopple
Posted on: Oct 17 2004, 06:40 PM


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The best government is defined by need. Like anything else, it is judged good or bad based on a hierarchy of values to make sense of the world. There is no all inclusive best government, it depends on the scenario.

History tends to teach us that in crisis, power tends to move towards a single entity and sometimes radicalism. Thus in a time of instability, a strong uniting dictatorship is probably the best route to take. However once the crisis is solved and people start clamoring for freedom, a more decentralized system will keep them placated, until that becomes corrupted. When that comes, the decay of a society has a few routes to take. It can either dissolve into chaos, slowly shift to a new power structure, or radically shift to a new power structure.

In any of these cases, a good government is defined by the values of those who interpret it. The first question to ask before we can ponder "what is the best government" is "what is the purpose of a government".
  Forum: The Issues Forum · Post Preview: #247703 · Replies: 8 · Views: 2,558

Sir Maxerpopple
Posted on: Oct 3 2004, 01:14 AM


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This poem uses overtly explicit and graphic language. It uses the obscenity f**k to acheive its message. I won't edit it.

In my opinion this is one of the best love poems ever written, this is my tribute to Etheridge Knight, and anyone who knows how he feels. God damn us.
























Feeling Fucked Up

Lord she's gone done left me done packed / up and split
and I with no way to make her
come back and everywhere the world is bare
bright bone white crystal sand glistens
dope death dead dying and jiving drove
her away made her take her laughter and her smiles
and her softness and her midnight sighs--

Fuck Coltrane and music and clouds drifting in the sky
fuck the sea and trees and the sky and birds
and alligators and all the animals that roam the earth
fuck marx and mao fuck fidel and nkrumah and
democracy and communism fuck smack and pot
and red ripe tomatoes fuck joseph fuck mary fuck
god jesus and all the disciples fuck fanon nixon
and malcom fuck the revolution fuck freedom fuck
the whole muthafucking thing
all i want now is my woman back
so my soul can sing
  Forum: Creations · Post Preview: #244608 · Replies: 1 · Views: 2,003

Sir Maxerpopple
Posted on: Oct 3 2004, 01:03 AM


Is conformity, consumption, and obedience really that bad?
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While I greatly enjoy philosophical discussion, I see neither the widespread demand or need for one. All deep thought issues go in the issues forum, the subforum would have few topics and would set a precedent for way too many subforums.

The purpose of the subforum is to unclutter the main forum--this would not do that.
  Forum: Daft · Post Preview: #244604 · Replies: 19 · Views: 4,332

Sir Maxerpopple
Posted on: Oct 1 2004, 09:35 PM


Is conformity, consumption, and obedience really that bad?
************

Group: New Members
Posts: 1,788
Joined: 10-October 03
Member No.: 644


Clouds don't escape into outer space, the ozone layer doesn't keep clouds in. Tell him he needs to shut up.
  Forum: Daft · Post Preview: #244453 · Replies: 17 · Views: 2,103

Sir Maxerpopple
Posted on: Sep 24 2004, 11:43 PM


Is conformity, consumption, and obedience really that bad?
************

Group: New Members
Posts: 1,788
Joined: 10-October 03
Member No.: 644


The thread is of my creation. Search "Alias Meanings"
  Forum: Introductions and where to find a guide · Post Preview: #243208 · Replies: 61 · Views: 10,079

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