"homophobia", you buggers can't start a new thread Options

[gothictheysay]

You want something done you have to do it yourself. I took the last topic we were discussing in "The Draft" (a thread in which many, many things other than the draft were discussed ) and I was surprised to see this dictionary definition:

3 entries found for homophobia.
ho·mo·pho·bi·a    ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (hm-fb-)
n.
Fear of or contempt for lesbians and gay men.
Behavior based on such a feeling. 

homophobia

n : prejudice against (fear or dislike of) homosexual people and homosexuality

Using the correct (I believe Latin) roots, it would mean to fear somethin the same as yourself. But that's the English language for you.

1 entry found for heterosexist.
het·er·o·sex·ism    ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (ht-r-skszm)
n.
Discrimination or prejudice against lesbians or gay men by heterosexual people.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
heter·o·sexist adj. & n.

Hmmm. By heterosexual people. We need a word for people that are homosexual or bisexual and are prejudiced against homosexuals. Weird.

I'm sure we can find various things to discover here, although I know that most likely everyone is against said prejudices, myself included. Heck, I'm not even sure yet if I'm straight or bi.

But the homophobia word - now that it's brought up - that really, really bugs me. I call for a case of abuse of Latin roots...as Cthulhu said, it should mean fear of something like yourself.

[Tigersong]

The fact is it is obviously derived from a fear of homosexuals (not the fear of "same"). Many people believe that heterosexism and homophobia are, at their root, derived from a fear of gay people.

There are cases of internalized homophobia, as well, in which a person hates themselves due to internalized homophobic thoughts and attitudes that are absorbed from the surrounding culture.

However, that being said, homophobia has passed into common usage as simply meaning any discriminatory thought or feeling of hatred that a person has against homosexual people. Whether or not it's the correct Latin etymology is kind of a moot point in my mind. Words in the English language mutate and change and no longer necessarily mean what they did in their original language. It happens all the time.

Case in point? Hydrophobia, which can be used to describe rabies. A person with rabies is not scared of water (or hydrogen, for that matter), but because it becomes impossible for the person to drink because of throat spasms.

In a similar manner, the words hydrophobic and hydrophilic (water-fearing and water-loving) are used constantly in chemistry to describe molecules that are attracted to and repelled by water. However, this is really a misnomer -- it has to do with energy states and molecules wanting to increase their stability via hydrogen bonds, nothing to do with the fear or love of water.

Therefore, I feel that homophobic is a perfectly acceptable term to describe discriminatory feelings. Heterosexism, on the other hand, is the action of discrimination in favour of heterosexual people. The two words aren't equivalent, and therefore I don't see the problem with both words being part of common usage.

We need a word for people that are homosexual or bisexual and are prejudiced against homosexuals. Weird.

Not really. Dictionary definitions aren't exclusive or complete. We could easily use the same word to describe the phenomenon.

On a side note, some bisexuals have been trying to coin the term biphobia to describe prejudice against bisexuals that comes from both homosexuals and heterosexuals.

[the lil' pie...]

they have? didn't know that...hmm wonder if it'll catch on.
i don't care, i fully approve of whatever sexuality people want to be anyway. yay for freedom

(abuse of latin roots really confuses me. and it makes it hard to figure out a new word for the first time, like if someone says it and you're thinking "now, what could that mean...?" )

[Mata]

Oh yes, the term 'biphobia' has been around for quite a while now.

Here's a rather radical interpretation of the term:

http://allies.tamu.edu/Did%20You%20Know/biphobia.htm

Personally I would say that that definition is more based on the idea of fear than hatred. There are things in there that are more matters for equal rights activists to address, rather than being things that put bisexuals in danger on the street (as is the case with the colloquial use of 'homophobia').

This speech gives a better description of how biphobia affects the daily lives of bisexual individuals. I know it strikes a lot of home truths with me:

http://www.biresource.org/features/sasha_biphobia.html

From experience, I'd say that homophobia is more likely to manifest itself in ways that are dangerous to individuals. Biphobia can do too, but it is more an issue of understanding and attitudes.

To give an example, I had a friend at university who had been actively gay for his whole life. I think he was around 30. He had never known a person who identified themself as bisexual. He really couldn't get his head around it. Every day he would declare with absolute certainty that I was either gay or straight. He'd been pretty active in gay awareness around the college and was quite up on such issues, but one day he said to me:

"So... You're completely 50% straight and 50% gay?"

I answered "No, I'm 100% bisexual." It's a standard answer to a question I've been asked a distressing amount of times. It was his reaction that interested me the most. He acted like I was being touchy for saying this, as if I should be trying to place myself in a scale which I personally do not feel I fit comfortably. A straight person, by definition, only feels attracted to people of the opposite gender, so how can anyone be 50% straight? The question doesn't make sense so I gave an answer that did.

I think my point is this, it often feels that in straight and gay communities that there is a lot of fear, resentment, and misunderstanding of bisexuals. Bisexuality is a very catch-all phrase, and so there is very little of a united front to dispell the myths, but while they remain we are are treated by some in ways that are unfair, based purely on our sexuality. It's made worse when some of the people that show the least understanding are people from the gay community, who would be expected to at least appreciate some of the difficulties that are faced by those of a minority sexuality, rather than adding to the prejudice.

[Tigersong]

I concur Mata. I think the understanding of bisexuality is becoming more and more prevalent in our society, but there's still a lot of biphobia around. I've experienced some of the same things you mention myself -- people not understanding what bisexuality is, or, in my case, believing that I have to have been in a physical relationship with a guy at some point in tim in order to not be straight. That is, I've only ever been with women -- so how could I be bi? It's a concept people - even open-minded people - have trouble with.

Part of the problem with the term bisexuality, as you mention, is that it is so very much a "catch-all phrase." Some of the newer studies suggest that there is a large number of people (perhaps even a majority) who are attracted to people of the same gender at least to some extent. The thing is, you could be a 1, a 2, a 3, a 4, or a 5 (on the Kinsey scale) and be called a bisexual by some people, straight by others, homosexual by others. This of course is influenced by societal pressures (the "homosexuals are evil" ideology) as well as biological pressures (some scientists have suggested that the need to raise a family is an independant drive of our sexuality -- which would appear to be true with the increasing number of homosexual couples raising children.) As well, some people who biologically sit at the 2 on the Kinsey scale (predominately heterosexual, but more than incidentally homosexual) might consider themselves straight and honestly never even think of same-sex people in a sexual manner. The same might even be true of a 4, or a 5, althoguh chances are more likely that these people might consider themselves more homosexual than heterosexual.

So, in conclusion bisexuality can be darn confusing for people. Perhaps a more apt description would be "biconfusing-as-hell" ?

[Mata]

I've got a badge somewhere that says 'No, I'm bisexual, you're confused', and I sometimes refer to 'confused' as 'the c word'. I know exactly what you mean, but I've also found the term 'confused' to be quite offensive at times. It depends a lot on who's saying it, in what context, and with what intention.

[MistressAlti]

Confused is one I hear frequently. Along with my mother's interpretation of my bisexuality, which is "It's a phase... you'll grow out of it." Or my stepfather's, whose idea was "Loving both genders of people, but not in an equal way... you'll understand later."

That kind of hurt.

[Cthulhu]

I don't think it's the "homo" part of homophobia that's the problem, it's the phobia part. The fear part. We are giving people who just hate for no reason at all a medical term to describe their hatred. Why don't we call members of the KKK Afrophobic? Because it would not only be totally wrong it'd be offensive to blacks. It'd give a bunch of people who are hate mongers a sense of legitimacy.

[leopold]

Absolutely! What those "homophobes" do isn't based on fear at all, but on blind ignorance.

Example: I'm claustrophobic. I don't go up to enclosed spaces, shout "Oi you, you f**kin' small box!" and proceed to kick seven colours of crap out of it. No, instead I come over in a cold sweat and have this irrational desire to get out of whatever enclosed space it is (and on occasion I've had panic attacks as well).

I guess the only "fear" that could be attributed to homophobia is fear of the unknown. I expect this fear most likely is an internal fear of facing up to the fact that one may, in fact, have homosexual tendencies. They refuse to face up to these feelings because they think that their manhood will come into question, that they will be shunned by society as being a "filthy pervert", or worse. Maybe it's this societal peer pressure that makes these people react this way? Nah. I personally think that, in most cases, it's got a lot more to do with the fact that their peers are all neanderthal thugs...

It's a crap term. Round my way, we prefer to call these idiots "queer bashers", cos that's pretty much what they are. It's spoken with the same bilious taste of disgust as "wife beater" and "child molester". It's a reference to a boorish thug with nothing better to do than prove their superiority by picking on a group of people who are less able to defend themselves physically.

[PsychWardMike]

Hmmm...

Its strikes me that the term needs not to be so debated as what the cause. Homophobia (or whatever the hell you want to call it) is, as stated before, pure, unadulterated hatred and ignorance. It needs to be not only broken, but totally eliminated from our society, just like racism and the like. It's beyond disgusting... its barbaric. But alas, ours is the first generation to truly embrace sexuality in its fullest, and even now, there are those that are, for lack of a better word, douches. That won't change, but we as a society need more acceptance.

As for my own bisexuality, there are only a few people that know. Friends, of course. My parents are rather... anti homosexual, to say the least. That's not to say that all my friends are cool with it, though... some conservatives out there. Blast, I'm digressing. Back to homophobia...

Yeah.. you'd be surprised how many fights I've gotten into over sexuality. It's kind of disturbing, kind of disgusting, but more than anything, really saddening. There's a lot of hate in the world.

So, on one final tangent, let's not just destroy homophobia, but let's get rid of hatred.

Peace and love,
Mike.

[Cthulhu]

One sec there. Being conservative doesn't mean you are homophobic or even that it's a common thing among conservatives. Dunno where that comes from but. Oh well.

I'd consider myself a gay man who leans to the conservative side of moderate. But I don't particularly like labels as I've said so... <shrug> whatever. But anyway, yeah, you're right, it's more important to get rid of the hatred. However, we can't do that, people aren't just going to all change because we want them to. So it really does boil down to having to fight for your rights and freedom. Either you fight for it now or it gets taken away or you don't ever get it to begin with. Not that I'm for the whole militant gay angle, I don't necessarally agree with a lot of the things that other gay men have to say. I believe in equality but, not special interests or affirmative action or privilages for people of certain groups. Just a flat level playing field.

[PsychWardMike]

I didn't mean to say that all conservatives are anti gay. Simply that anti gay people are usually of the conservative variety.

But you're right. We can't wish away hatred, and I'm no idealist to think that there will ever be complete and total harmony between straight, gay, and bisexual. However, there's a lot of unnecessary hatred out there and I just want to kill some of it. *shrug*

As for standing up for rights, hell yeah, I'm all for it. Go rights. My problem really is with any form of radical thought. That goes for radically straight people and radically gay; there needs to be a balance in the world.

So peace and love and all such sentiments. Now where did I put my tie dye?

Cheers,
Mike.

[gothictheysay]

Oh, oh, let's start a thread about affirmative action!

It's surprising how uneasy people are about it. I have a friend who seems scared. She says it's just something she could never imagine herself doing.

It's surprising how my males at my age use "gay" as an insult. And they have nothing to back it up as to why it is an insult. Gay is usually acceptable slang, but it's not something to use in insult form. That really bugs me.

It's surprising how absent the message is of that it's okay to be homosexual or bisexual. I think it's because people try to fix it - I remember a thread about that. If you look at history it seems to be the same as other prejudices but this one seems a lot more...messy. =\

[Cthulhu]

<Rant>

Ya know what really burns my britches, all the gamers out there who just throw the word "gay" around as a derogative statement as if it's now synonamous with "bad" or "dork" or "jerK" or any other negative thing. It shows me how unbelievably ignorant they are. It happens at least 10 to 20 times a day when I'm in a game, doesn't matter what game, UT2k4, UT2k3, City of Heroes, FarCray, Halo, you name it. Someone's gonna say "that was gay" or "this map is gay" or "that idea is gay". What do you say to a jerk like this? If you say anything it's immediatly going to mean to them that you're gay and that's just opening up a can of worms you don't wanna open. But to just sit there and ignore that kind of ignorance and hatred isn't good either. I usually try to get on an opposing team and hunt down that person consistantly until they get tired of it and leave. Or I just stand in front of them and block their way if we're on the same team, just to show them what it's like to be faced with the brick wall of ignorance.

</rant>

[gothictheysay]

After explaining all about how homosexual people are equal and they should accept themselves and others should accept them, I always get:

"So, you're gay?"

What did they say to white people who helped black people protest in the 60s, "Are you black?"

It's not the accusation that bothers me, it's the fact that me being gay would be the only way I could think such a thing.

[DarkInferno]

whats also funny s people trying to justify their hatred by saying that their friends are gay/black/female/from mars/insert minority here... I have a problem with that...I'm not racist or sexist or bothered by peoples sexual leanings at all... why should I?...

I can honestly say that I have no gay friends, I have no black friends, I have no female friends, I have no black friends. I have friends. Some are black.. some are gay... some are women... and others from mars (guess it depends on how much you smoked)

But what I'm really trying to say is I disagree with the segregation, be that on a form asking my race, sex, sexuality or any other nonsence (what the hell does it have to do with anything).

[Cthulhu]

You said you have no black friends twice, is that a double negative?

http://www.intriguing.com/mp/_sounds/hg/gay.wav

[DarkInferno]

nahh I just hate all blacks... *grin*
The second one was going to be Martians.. ahh well..

[the lil' pie...]

After explaining all about how homosexual people are equal and they should accept themselves and others should accept them, I always get:

"So, you're gay?"

What did they say to white people who helped black people protest in the 60s, "Are you black?"

It's not the accusation that bothers me, it's the fact that me being gay would be the only way I could think such a thing.

what is it with that? seriously?

that's exactly what happens to me. i've had a friend admit she felt she was bisexual, and another friend who started on about how she "must be gay, you can't just like both" causing a large argument between them.

the sheer ignorance got to me so much i had to say something, and in the resulting build-up of bad feelings, she turned around and accused me of being "a gay-lover"
gay-lover? what a term. and not in a good way.

there's something very wrong with people that choose to be ignorant because they refuse to open their minds to ideas and accept people for who they are.

and i don't care if this is an unstructured point. it makes me angry

[Mata]

I had a person email me about a year and a half ago:

Your site is totally gay! (in the good way)

Apparently 'gay' can mean 'good' as well as 'bad'. It did confuse me a bit.

[leopold]

What did they say to white people who helped black people protest in the 60s, "Are you black?"

Not quite... they were referred to as "nigger lovers".

Which leads me nicely onto my point. Yes, it should be possible to get people to think differently about homosexuality and become more tolerant and accepting of it. What is needed, though (and I've said this many times before) is that the community needs a gay version of Martin Luther King. Someone who can speak eloquently and evenly about the plight. One who can raise a call to arms and have people actually listen. The trouble is, at the moment, the only gay people I've seen try and do this are so militant that most people simply ignore them as being overly reactionary.

I think that, in many ways, we're already a long way down that road. True, there's many people who are still anti-gay, but then we still have racism. It'll never really go away, but if it can be driven underground, where "ordinary" people can then frown on them for their attitudes, so much the better.

Incidentally, Mata, I'm stunned you weren't aware of the positive use of the word "gay". It's original meaning (before being hijacked to describe homosexuals) was all positives, used to describe people or places that were happy or lively or joyous.

[Mata]

I knew the original sense of the word, but the tone of the message was quite colloquial and so I got the impression that the word was being used as slang for good, rather than in the joyous derivation.

Incidentally, apparently gay was originally chosen as a political word for homosexuality because it was an acronym for 'Good As You'.

[ravein]

I posted this a while back. I kind of thought it still applied. Most people don’t realize how stupid homophobes are until the look at like this...

Why Homophobia is Stupid
By Selmisha Green
Personally I am a straightopobe... I think that straight people are weird.. They have to breed all the time.. and are always buying mini vans... and they have no sense of style.. and they are always trying to convert everyone to be straight... and most of them are child molesters... all those straight shows on TV are corrupting our children.... if it wasn’t for those two straight people we would have never been kicked out of the garden of Eden... ehhhhh and how they have sex is soooo gross... it just creeps me out... yuck... so when was the first time you thought you where straight? maybe it is just a phase you will grow out of? How do you know you are not homosexual if you have never tried it? Doesn’t heterosexual just feel.....un-natural? hum... what did your parents think when they found out you where straight? Maybe you should go see a doctor? There are straight to gay programs you can join.. and support groups.... where you born straight or was it a choice?
hummm...

The problem is not with gay leaders.. but gay people. Sadly trying to get gay men motivated in numbers is impossible unless you throw in a white party. Gay pride events have become a place to cruise for you dinner... the problem is we are too gay! I don’t believe it will be possible in America to get the homosexual movement rolling until our civil rights are taken away. You don’t miss what you don’t have. But once something is taken from you.. it is different. Now don’t get me wrong, I am not speaking of everyone. But I would say 65% of gay men and 50% of lesbians could careless about actually making sacrifices to make change. They are happy going to the one gay pride march each year.

[Tigersong]

I don't know. Out of all the civil rights/whatever movements out there, I think the homosexual rights movement has come a long way in the last 40, 50 years. Heck, even in the last ten! We've gone from an era in which homosexuality was the crime which dare not speak its name to an era in which homosexual marriage is seriously being entertained in many countries around the world. I'm not saying there aren't major changes that need to be made, but I think that the gay rights movement has come a long way from the Stonewall Riots to today.

My point? I think that, all in all, the gay rights movement has done fairly well without a Martin Luther King Jr. and I don't think the gay people in general are unmotivated to bring about social change.

[ravein]

I think it has come along way.. don’t get me wrong. From the time I was in high school till today.. I can see a 100% change. But I don’t think we have done enough.. and I think we need to be proactive instead of reactionary. But I am speaking of gay rights in my area.. different areas have different programs. Almost all other gay rights movements pale in comparison to San Frans gay rights movement. So I guess it depends on where you are in the world. Where I am from I don’t think we have done nearly enough.. Virginia (our sister state) just passed a law outlawing all gay marriage and civil unions. We should be up their ass right now... but instead they have called for a boycott of Virginia. Now that solves nothing.. we are giving them what they want by staying away.. I say.. we all go to Virginia and show them how wonderful we really are. My point is while I feel we have made some progress.. it is not nearly enough.