Xmas, taking the christ out of christmas? Options

[believe]

Can we just agree that people on both sides are clearly on crack and let it go at that? Its the simplest and most logical explanation.

A lot of these topics seem to come back to the number one truth o' the universe: People (especially fanatics) are often stupid and/or silly.

This includes people being stupid about people not being 'Christian enough' about Christmas and the people that are stupid enough to persecute and any and all religious elements of it. Sadly, both exist and far too prevalently, at least in America. Bah.

[Calantyr]

Nice picture. I like the intricate Celtic-ish (they look genuinely Celtic to me, but I'm easy to fool) designs all around the edges particularly.

Hellenic. Greek design.

You're a DnD'er? OOooooohhhhhhh, fantastical!

I think the main problem is people leaping on things and ripping them to shreds without taking the time to research about it first. It's different, so automaticly bad. No matter if I'm too ignorant to realise it's actually agreeing with me...

etc etc etc.

[Pixelgoth]

I am a Pagan so I celebrate Yule (around 21st December) rather than Xmas but I celebrate Xmas too as my boyfriend is Christian and celebrates it. Plus it's easier to celebrate Xmas and Yule as a joint "do"

What annoys me is the distinct lack of cards at Xmas time that don't say Xmas. I want something that says Seasons Greetings or Happy Holidays. I made my own one year but I'm not very artistic so I'd prefer to buy a generic one. Clintons just don't get it!

[FeralPolyglot]

I am a Pagan so I celebrate Yule (around 21st December) rather than Xmas but I celebrate Xmas too as my boyfriend is Christian and celebrates it.  Plus it's easier to celebrate Xmas and Yule as a joint "do"

What annoys me is the distinct lack of cards at Xmas time that don't say Xmas.  I want something that says Seasons Greetings or Happy Holidays.  I made my own one year but I'm not very artistic so I'd prefer to buy a generic one.  Clintons just don't get it!

Yay for Pagans! I share your pain in searching for "Happy Holidays" cards. This year I was lucky enough to find a package of eight in a dollar bin at Michael's (Craft Store). I wrote those eight out and tried to go out to Walmart to find more and there was nigh a card in sight that didn't have Christmas or Hannuka symbols stamped all over them.

I celebrate Christmastime with my family in a traditional Christmas fashion because they're all Christian. When I celebrate Christmastime, I celebrate a time to be with your family and loved ones. A time to come together and enjoy being together and giving to one another. (I know I know.. It's not all about the presents, and it's not. But one of the reasons I buy presents for my little brother or for my parents aside from it being Christmas tradition is in the hopes that when they see them, they go "Awww, that's so nice... Thank you." It makes me happy to have made them happy. It's a time when you don't have to feel guilty getting little nicknacks for people just to brighten their day.) (I won't lie though... The presents are a nice side perk too.... )

To follow with the thread, I didn't know about the "X" in "Xmas" being an actual abbreviation from the Greek alphabet. I must tell my stepmom because she's always up in arms about people taking the "Christ" out of "Christmas". Ya' learn something new every day! I usually don't write "Xmas" just because I don't think it needs abbreviating. Just like I prefer not to abbreviate "B-day" or any other holiday name... It takes some away from the holiday season's feelings if you're so rushed that you cannot write five more characters to put its full name..




-Cerin
=^^= ~~

[Astarael]

Nice picture. I like the intricate Celtic-ish (they look genuinely Celtic to me, but I'm easy to fool) designs all around the edges particularly.

Hellenic. Greek design.

You're a DnD'er? OOooooohhhhhhh, fantastical!

I think the main problem is people leaping on things and ripping them to shreds without taking the time to research about it first. It's different, so automaticly bad. No matter if I'm too ignorant to realise it's actually agreeing with me...

etc etc etc.

DnD'er? If that's not the abbreviation for Dungeons and Dragons, I am most confused.
I have to agree with the point about the lack of "Happy Holidays" cards. Every time you hit the stores in December, everything is covered in nativity scenes, fake snow, menorahs, holly, and Santa. I don't believe I've ever seen any cards that wish someone a happy Yule, Imbolc, or Saturnalia. Probably that's either low demand or storeowners who don't want to scare the ultra-conservatives who believe that anything but Christmas, Hanukkah, or Kwanzaa is a devil's holiday. *shakes head* Anyway, best of luck finding good cards next year. If you write Hallmark enough e-mails, they might actually make some.

[Mutilation]

It's intersting to see some people's opinions from America, as I myself live in Leicester where a considerable amount of the population is not Christian. Some of my best friends ("I'm not racist, some of my best friends are black") are Muslim, Sikh, Jewish and devoutly Christian, yet everyone still says Merry Christmas, and no-one takes offence. Though I'm sure I don't speak for all of the UK, but it seems the need for astounding political correctness is stronger in America.

[Astarael]

Yes, we're somewhat unfortunate in that way. Everyone thinks that they should have things their own way, but Americans have the tendency to see people when they can't get they want and make frivolous lawsuits about it. It's a bit depressing looking at lists of stupid American lawsuits that people filed for things that were actually their own fault.
But I'm rambling again. Anyway, maybe Americans are just more easily offended by the little things that they don't like than British people are. *shrugs* Or maybe people just pay more attention to loudmouthed idiots over here. Either way, all the political correctness fuss has grown boring.

[trunks_girl26]

It's intersting to see some people's opinions from America, as I myself live in Leicester where a considerable amount of the population is not Christian. Some of my best friends ("I'm not racist, some of my best friends are black") are Muslim, Sikh, Jewish and devoutly Christian, yet everyone still says Merry Christmas, and no-one takes offence. Though I'm sure I don't speak for all of the UK, but it seems the need for astounding political correctness is stronger in America.

It's probably because America has a much higher diversity than Britan, since we have so many more people than Britan, (or, for that matter, than most countries in Europe). And when you have that many different cultures and identites floating about, you're bound to offend someone no matter what you do. So what's the answer? Attempt to not offend anyone, obviously. That's where all this PC stuff comes from. Everyone's afraid of offending someone else (which in itself should be an offence, because everyone should be able to realize when people are intending to offend and when they're not ), so they attempt to smoothe things over with everyone by keeping evreyone happy. Now logically, they know it can't happen, but they try anyway. Silly buggers.

Anyway, I actually find that there are a ton of cards that say Happy Holidays (of course, this could be because I live so close to the city), and I can't see myself being offended at anyone wishing me a happy or merry anything, but that's just me.

[Phyllis]

It's probably because America has a much higher diversity than Britan

I'm not sure that's quite true, Ange, but am having trouble finding any actual statistics...hrm

[trunks_girl26]

It's probably because America has a much higher diversity than Britan

I'm not sure that's quite true, Ange, but am having trouble finding any actual statistics...hrm

I was speaking more in reference to the variations and combinations of backgrounds and cultures- we are called the melting pot for a reason, ne?

[Calantyr]

I was speaking more in reference to the variations and combinations of backgrounds and cultures- we are called the melting pot for a reason, ne?

England has been referred to as a melting pot since before the Norman conquest. Recently in the post-war years it became even more so.

[Astarael]

Depends on what set of statistics you want to use. You could measure by greatest number of different minorities present, the percentage of different cultures... I'm not really sure what the best measure would be. America did have pretty much no immigration laws for a while, so people came pouring in from all over the world (mostly Europe for a while, but that broadened quickly) for land and jobs. Then the Chinese Exclusion Act came along in 1882 and we've been gradually tightening up immigration policy ever since. America may have been the melting pot, but that could be changing. *shrugs* Maybe international immigration records with percentages of people leaving and arriving in each country would help, but there's a lot of different little factors that could throw that off.

[Calantyr]

Oh the US DOES have a huge mix, but no more than quite a few other places. I believe that the mix of Canada's immigration etc. is the same as the US. Britain shares in this, one of the consequences of Empire and a bloody good thing it is too. If you can dig up the national census you should see it.

And then look at various cities across Europe that have been estimated to have a majority 'foreign' population by 2010. I think Amsterdam is one of them, it's suppossed to majority muslim in a few years. And Germany has a HUGE Turkish minority.

One of the consequences about opening up the world has meant that Nationality and Culture are no longer synonymous.

[bryden42]

*spam* Huge Minority..... I like that

[Astarael]

Blending all sorts of different cultures all over the world should make a good difference eventually, as theoretically we'll learn to be more sensitive and understand each other more and not fight so much. Given human nature, I'm not holding my breath, but blending until culture and nationality are farther apart is probably a good thing.

[Daria]

Given human nature, I'm not holding my breath, but blending until culture and nationality are farther apart is probably a good thing

Ah- but then surely the flip-side of this arguement would be that there would be a sudden surge for everyone to find themselves an identity, and suddenly clans would form and there would be inter-clan wars and the bloodshed would be terrible, and all the civilians would then go to living underground in huge bunkers awaiting doomsday?


You can sort of see what I mean though, right? People need an identity- hence religions/ the BNP (British Nazi Party)/ music genres etc etc. A completely blended population would end up in alot of people freaking out over The Meaning Of Life (not just MP's version ) and then the opposite of what perhaps happens now, migh occur- people without a herritage could get picked on.

[Astarael]

Some people might react that way, but I think that defining your identity by who you are and what you believe is more useful and more interesting in the long run than trying to define yourself by what country your ancestors were from.
The things that you mentioned are the most common modern ways to find identities. Not that all religious groups and political parties are good things, but they group people more by beliefs than by which bit of the map their great-grandmother once lived in. When there's a even mix of different nationalities in different countries (again, I'm not holding my breath) then just possibly the sweeping stereotypes won't be so prominent. Possibly me drifting off to vague and unclearly explained idealism land again, but I'd like to think that it will happen eventually, given enough time.

[Daria]

Oh, I am in full agreement to your idea, but due to human nature and my cynisism, I just can't see it happening. I would also argue that who you are and what you believe comes partly from where you grew up/ where you were born and where your ancestors came from. And as far as people can see differences between people (be it wealth, clothing style, colour of skin or language etc), there will always be descrimination as there always has to be a leader (hence communism never actually working). Humans are just like that.

On the other hand, I hope I am wrong, and that people can live together in peace and harmony, without the hideousness which is racism.

[believe]

Everyone thinks that they should have things their own way, but Americans have the tendency to see people when they can't get they want and make frivolous lawsuits about it. It's a bit depressing looking at lists of stupid American lawsuits that people filed for things that were actually their won fault.

That puts it just beautifully. I had to quote you to better compliment it. And yes, it is awfully depressing. ._.

Some of my best friends ("I'm not racist, some of my best friends are black") are Muslim, Sikh, Jewish and devoutly Christian, yet everyone still says Merry Christmas, and no-one takes offence.

I've just decided to move to England. Right now! >.>

As for the blending vs. seperation bit.. anyone have an example of a culture that has different sorts but is well blended? I wanted to say Canada, but then I realized I didn't know. France has racism issues, Japan is blended with the society but not so nice against any new arrivals. *ponders*

[Astarael]

Other than the happy politically correct land of Star Trek: The Next Generation, I can't really think of one. I suppose that some parts of America must be well blended (some groups of people aren't going to bother about superifical differences,) but everyone reacts to differences in a unique way, so some places are still fairly unwelcoming.