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> Rules!, Yes or no?
Do you think humans are innate rule followers or rulebreakers?
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Total Votes: 24
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eleraama
post Sep 6 2005, 11:20 PM
Post #1


There is glass between us...!
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I work as a receptionist, and it really interests me to watch how some people think that they have to follow 'the rules' (specifically by signing in), even if I tell them not to worry about it.

I am personally of the opinion that it really depends on the person, and I'm betting that most of you will agree.

For example, I have a friend who freaks out in rule-bending or breaking situations, whle others could care less.

I think that the majority of people follow them for convenience's sake.

Thoughts?


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uninspired pizza...
post Sep 7 2005, 12:53 AM
Post #2


Oh really?
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It depends on what sort of rules, some people bypass them for convenience (e.g. Dont run with sissors, even if you are late!), others may break rules for fun (e.g. dont photocopy your face!). As long as im not doing something dangerous or risky like speeding or stealing, i'll happily bend the rules in my favour.


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little_bear
post Sep 7 2005, 05:08 AM
Post #3


I could have written a short novel by this point
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Obedience very much stems from personality type. There are certain personality traits which are consistent with high levels of obedience. Such people are often heavily patriotic and also like to command over those below them. This much psychology has taught me.

However, you'd be surprised at the results found in some psychological tests.

Milgram, a now eminent psychologist, conducted at experiment at Yale university.

In the experiment, so-called "teachers" (who were actually the unknowing subjects of the experiment) were recruited by Milgram. Sat in front of a console with buttons indicating increasing voltage in 15 volt increments, they were asked administer an electric shock of increasing intensity to a "learner" (who was actually a confederate of the experimenter) for each mistake he made during the experiment. The scale went right up to a whopping 450 volts - a lethal shock, which was clearly indicated on the console. The fictitious story given to these "teachers" was that the experiment was exploring effects of punishment (for incorrect responses) on learning behavior. The "teacher" was not aware that the "learner" in the study was actually an actor, obviously. At certain points, certain audio cues of the "learner" 'speaking' (they were merely tape recordings) were played. He (all participants were men) said things like "I cannot go on, the pain is too much!" and "I no longer wish to carry on with the experiment!" The experimenter would give audio 'nudges' to the participant saying "You must carry on with the experiment." and "It is imperative that you carry on with the experiment."

Milgrams finding were shocking. A massive two thirds of participants went up to 450V and no-one stopped before 275V!

So perhaps we are all inately obedient.

Just some food for thought ...

EDIT: Arf! I thought this was in Issues! Hence the long reply.


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Quoth(The Raven)
post Sep 7 2005, 06:12 AM
Post #4


Meow!
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QUOTE (little_bear @ Sep 7 2005, 12:08 AM)
Obedience very much stems from personality type.  There are certain personality traits which are consistent with high levels of obedience.  Such people are often heavily patriotic and also like to command over those below them.  This much psychology has taught me.

However, you'd be surprised at the results found in some psychological tests.

Milgram, a now eminent psychologist, conducted at experiment at Yale university.

In the experiment, so-called "teachers" (who were actually the unknowing subjects of the experiment) were recruited by Milgram. Sat in front of a console with buttons indicating increasing voltage in 15 volt increments, they were asked administer an electric shock of increasing intensity to a "learner" (who was actually a confederate of the experimenter) for each mistake he made during the experiment.  The scale went right up to a whopping 450 volts - a lethal shock, which was clearly indicated on the console. The fictitious story given to these "teachers" was that the experiment was exploring effects of punishment (for incorrect responses) on learning behavior. The "teacher" was not aware that the "learner" in the study was actually an actor, obviously.  At certain points, certain audio cues of the "learner" 'speaking' (they were merely tape recordings) were played.  He (all participants were men) said things like "I cannot go on, the pain is too much!" and "I no longer wish to carry on with the experiment!"  The experimenter would give audio 'nudges' to the participant saying "You must carry on with the experiment." and "It is imperative that you carry on with the experiment."

Milgrams finding were shocking.  A massive two thirds of participants went up to 450V and no-one stopped before 275V!

So perhaps we are all inately obedient.

Just some food for thought ...

EDIT: Arf! I thought this was in Issues! Hence the long reply.
*


actually, I think it speaks more to our latentagression and sadism, than obedience. On a more amusing note, at the beginning of the movie Ghostbusters, Peter Venkman is performing a varient of the experiment you described, but, in his case, he was giving a girl he wanted to make time with high scores, while giving a poor schmuck sitting beside her all low scores (And a painful shock with each low score). Venkmen's goal (He said) was to see the effects of negative reinforcement on Psychic ability. The audience gets to see enough of this experiment to see that the poor guy who got a shock no matter what, was actually improving his accuracy! funny stuff!


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little_bear
post Sep 7 2005, 08:52 AM
Post #5


I could have written a short novel by this point
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QUOTE (Quoth(The Raven) @ Sep 7 2005, 07:12 AM)
QUOTE (little_bear @ Sep 7 2005, 12:08 AM)
Obedience very much stems from personality type.  There are certain personality traits which are consistent with high levels of obedience.  Such people are often heavily patriotic and also like to command over those below them.  This much psychology has taught me.

However, you'd be surprised at the results found in some psychological tests.

Milgram, a now eminent psychologist, conducted at experiment at Yale university.

In the experiment, so-called "teachers" (who were actually the unknowing subjects of the experiment) were recruited by Milgram. Sat in front of a console with buttons indicating increasing voltage in 15 volt increments, they were asked administer an electric shock of increasing intensity to a "learner" (who was actually a confederate of the experimenter) for each mistake he made during the experiment.  The scale went right up to a whopping 450 volts - a lethal shock, which was clearly indicated on the console. The fictitious story given to these "teachers" was that the experiment was exploring effects of punishment (for incorrect responses) on learning behavior. The "teacher" was not aware that the "learner" in the study was actually an actor, obviously.  At certain points, certain audio cues of the "learner" 'speaking' (they were merely tape recordings) were played.  He (all participants were men) said things like "I cannot go on, the pain is too much!" and "I no longer wish to carry on with the experiment!"  The experimenter would give audio 'nudges' to the participant saying "You must carry on with the experiment." and "It is imperative that you carry on with the experiment."

Milgrams finding were shocking.  A massive two thirds of participants went up to 450V and no-one stopped before 275V!

So perhaps we are all inately obedient.

Just some food for thought ...

EDIT: Arf! I thought this was in Issues! Hence the long reply.
*


actually, I think it speaks more to our latentagression and sadism
, than obedience. On a more amusing note, at the beginning of the movie Ghostbusters, Peter Venkman is performing a varient of the experiment you described, but, in his case, he was giving a girl he wanted to make time with high scores, while giving a poor schmuck sitting beside her all low scores (And a painful shock with each low score). Venkmen's goal (He said) was to see the effects of negative reinforcement on Psychic ability. The audience gets to see enough of this experiment to see that the poor guy who got a shock no matter what, was actually improving his accuracy! funny stuff!
*


Ker-wrong! Nil point. _


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Witless
post Sep 7 2005, 09:07 AM
Post #6


happy.. sad.. happy
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Hmm.. don't know where my experience fits into this.. but I tend to ignore rules I feel are stupid, but when I agree with a rule I will follow it pretty obsessively (including the rules I make for myself). Even when there are no consequences to breaking them. Though I won't go into what rules I set for myself are here.. they're secret! ph34r.gif


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Cath Sparrow
post Sep 7 2005, 11:10 AM
Post #7


I've been brainwashed
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It depends on the situation if it's not going to harm any one, I will break and bend rules but I will also follow rule if it's going to make something more interesting.


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Astarael
post Sep 13 2005, 02:02 AM
Post #8


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I'll cheerfully break the idiotic rules like no running in the halls (I don't bang into people) and don't talk in the cafeteria (this was a rule at my elementary school- no talking at lunch. Very stupid.) I also break lots of the little unofficial rules, "no black shoes after Memorial Day" being at the top of the list.
I don't steal from people, cheat on tests, or skip class. I follow rules with good reasons that I can understand and respect (yelling "Fire!" in a crowded place is all kinds of stupid and dangerous if there isn't one.) However, there's a load of dumb rules that I don't follow because I don't care and can't find a useful reason for them.


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Sometimes we can choose the path we follow. Sometimes our choices are made for us. And sometimes we have no choice at all. ~Morpheus, King of Dreams
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Marriegold
post Sep 13 2005, 01:07 PM
Post #9


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As long as I am not doing anything dangerous or breaking a law. I have to admit I am always breaking the rules especially if the school has made them. I get into a lot of trouble but have never seemed to stop me. One of them being not being allowed to use fortune cards in school, but I have been reading even some teachers fortune using my cards. biggrin.gif Rules are too hard to follow however I do have a tendency to follow my own morals as a rule that can never be broken.

I would never do anything like skip class but not because it's a rule because I am the one benefiting from the class not them.
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mooooooooooopo
post Sep 13 2005, 07:37 PM
Post #10


: P>
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Generally rules should be followed unless they're either:

a) Too general and cover situations that the person who wrote the rule hadn't though of
cool.gif Exceptional circumstances

Generally as long as the rules make sense then they're generally useful in normal, everyday situations.
In accidents and emergencies there tend to be cases where breaking the rules can save lives or make a huge difference, in which case they should be ignored.


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