Cosmetic surgery, with a side salad of gender perceptions Options

[Mata]

I've been wondering for a while about people's views on cosmetic surgery. By this I mean surgical procedures for aesthetic reasons, not reconstructive surgery.

I've never really had any issues with it, and would potentially consider having a few things done. I look after myself and exercise to control my figure, but there are some things that there's not a lot you can do about without outside help. I guess it becomes tricky when you start to think about the motives for getting these things done. Some people distort their bodies in ways that aren't healthy for them in the long term. Should a determination to do that be considered a form of self-harm and be treated with counselling, not surgery? At what point does a cosmetic operation stop being a positive thing that can improve a person's self confidence and enjoyment of life and turn into something that is feeding into a lack of self-worth?

Also, where should the line be drawn? Some people would argue that all cosmetic surgery is psychologically a bad idea, but they probably wouldn't object to orthodonistry.

This has come to mind for me because I've been getting irritated by my thinning hair for a few years and have decided to get a hair transplant (it's your own hair, just relocated from parts of your head that don't go bald to the bits that do). It's costly, but it will mean that I can get away with having silly hair for as long as I want. I can't see any good reason not to, other than the generally percieved negative attitude towards cosmetic surgery, and in particular towards men having operations. I've been quite surprised by how positively everyone I've told has reacted, expecting at least a bit of a reaction of 'Really? Why?', but it's all been good. Then again, I've not told my parents and if possible I'm going to avoid letting them know about it! Maybe the attitudes are a generational thing - perhaps the people I've told have all been young enough to be okay with the idea and my suspicions about people's reactions are based on an older generations perceptions of 'what is right for a man to do' (and what isn't).

So, what do you think? Would you have cosmetic surgery? Do you think it's generally useful for people? Do you think and/or feel it's different for men tohave surgery than for women?

[leopold]

Would I consider cosmetic surgery? Well, yes, I would. I'll consider liposuction as a last resort to reducing my midriff, but considering that carrying excess weight there isn't healthy it's possibly less of a cosmetic and more a health thing. However, I won't do it just to reverse the process of excessive cake consumption, I realise there's more to it than just hoovering up! I'd also thought about redoing my nose. I'd not thought about hair, though, I've already resigned myself to the horror of male pattern baldness!

Do I think it's useful? Yes, with a but. If someone is genuinely unhappy with some part, such as nose, cheekbones, breasts or whatever, and that surgery gives them more confidence and makes them happier, then I'd say it is. The "but" comes when people do it not for confidence, but out of an addiction.

Is it different for men and women? Yes. Societal pressure on women is abominable; it encourages the gender to look in a certain way in such a relentless manner that women are much more pressurised into looking like models. Whereas men don't feel the pressure to look like Brad Pitt, women are definitely made to feel inferior to Angelina Jolie. So for a woman to want surgery is sort of expected. For men to do it, it's seen more as vanity. Which, really, is all wrong; we shouldn't focus on why men want to, and concentrate more on why women feel that they have to. But that's another discussion for another day.

On the point of when it becomes too much, it's a relatively straightforward thing to work out. Anyone having liposuction on a flat stomach, or is on their third boob job, or is having their fifth bout of reconstructive surgery, is likely to be overdoing it. Before any cosmetic procedure, the client should be asked why they want the work doing and assess whether they are in a suitable frame of mind for the work. Any consultant surgeon should be able to identify a definite positive and whether someone is getting obsessed. Unfortunately, some are more likely to just take the cash, rather than consider any mental issues.

[Phyllis]

I don't think I would consider cosmetic surgery for myself, but that has more to do with my existing medical issues than any real objections to it. It's not a good idea for me to have unnecessary surgery, since being sedentary during the recovery could lead to a blood clot.

While recovering from the hair thing, I presume you wouldn't have to sit around and veg. I'd probably consider it if I was balding, especially as I am a lady. There's a bit more of a stigma attached when we go a little thin on top, though goodness knows it's not easy for men either. Hmm, does laser hair surgery count as "plastic"? I have long been considering that. I am a freaking sasquatch.

I think it can be useful, but of course it isn't always. When it veers into obsession and fixing every little bulge and wrinkle, then it becomes a problem. Counseling would probably be more helpful in such scenarios. I agree completely with Leo on the gender stuff -- very well said.

[voices_in_my_hea...]

Would I consider it? Well, currently, and assuming that my current situation stays the same (that is, no disfigurements and whatnot) the answer is no. Not because I believe myself to be perfect in every way, but because I actually enjoy the flaws that I have - my nose is a bit big, I don't like the color of my eyes (is there even a surgery option for that?) and my breasts are pretty small...but I tend to see beauty in different ways than most - looking a little bit unique (that is, not looking like a model/barbie clone) gives people personality.

Useful? Maybe. I think it depends on the person and their own perception of their appearance. Some people feel they can't be themselves looking the way they do, and in that case, I say go for it.

I can't top Leo's response to how it's diffrent for men and women, because I agree completely.
My only real problem with the whole thing is that I think just about anyone is gorgeous, regardless of how much extra flab they have or how big their ears are. Everyone has at least one thing about them that, to me, makes them pretty. But, I'm aware that not all of society thinks that way, and I understand the pressure to look "perfect".

[Moosh]

I've been thinking about this recently with reference to an area of my shoulders/upper back that's quite heavily scarred. I think I probably will get that cleared up at some point, if I can. It's certainly not medically necessary surgery, and the entire point is to make it look better, but I'm not sure if I think of that in the same way as say, getting a boob job. I don't really have a problem with people having surgery to change their appearance if they're unhappy with it, but if you're going to do it then it's probably a good idea to think about why it is that you're unhappy with it.

[CrazyFooIAintGet...]

At what point does a cosmetic operation stop being a positive thing that can improve a person's self confidence and enjoyment of life and turn into something that is feeding into a lack of self-worth?

I think you have a pretty good definition right there of when not to get cosmetic surgery -- but clearly this is going to be different for each person, since someone with with self-esteem problems probably won't feel any better about themselves afterwards.

Also, where should the line be drawn? Some people would argue that all cosmetic surgery is psychologically a bad idea, but they probably wouldn't object to orthodonistry.

I think it's only a bad idea if the person has self-confidence issues before the surgery, and they are hoping it is going to be a quick fix for that. Also, I don't think orthodontistry is a fair comparison here, since it can be done for health reasons as well, e.g. having too many teeth! I get the impression that it is done more for cosmetic reasons in the US though... (is this true?)

This has come to mind for me because I've been getting irritated by my thinning hair for a few years and have decided to get a hair transplant (it's your own hair, just relocated from parts of your head that don't go bald to the bits that do). It's costly, but it will mean that I can get away with having silly hair for as long as I want. I can't see any good reason not to, other than the generally percieved negative attitude towards cosmetic surgery, and in particular towards men having operations. I've been quite surprised by how positively everyone I've told has reacted, expecting at least a bit of a reaction of 'Really? Why?', but it's all been good. Then again, I've not told my parents and if possible I'm going to avoid letting them know about it! Maybe the attitudes are a generational thing - perhaps the people I've told have all been young enough to be okay with the idea and my suspicions about people's reactions are based on an older generations perceptions of 'what is right for a man to do' (and what isn't).

So, what do you think? Would you have cosmetic surgery? Do you think it's generally useful for people? Do you think and/or feel it's different for men tohave surgery than for women?

Tbh I think it's a bit strange but I don't see any problem with it.

I don't think I would ever have cosmetic surgery - while I don't like the way I look very much, there isn't any particular aspect of my appearance that I want to change (with surgery anyway).

I feel like I would be more likely to judge women for having cosmetic surgery than men, which is kind of ridiculous. I kind of associate cosmetic surgery with the ridiculous standards of beauty encouraged by the media, so my gut reaction is to assume all cosmetic surgery is unnecessary. I do realize that there can be legitimate reasons for doing it though, and I certainly don't think that it is always a bad idea.

On the point of when it becomes too much, it's a relatively straightforward thing to work out. Anyone having liposuction on a flat stomach, or is on their third boob job, or is having their fifth bout of reconstructive surgery, is likely to be overdoing it. Before any cosmetic procedure, the client should be asked why they want the work doing and assess whether they are in a suitable frame of mind for the work. Any consultant surgeon should be able to identify a definite positive and whether someone is getting obsessed. Unfortunately, some are more likely to just take the cash, rather than consider any mental issues.

That doesn't sound very straightforward to me! How do you assess the client's frame of mind? Whats to stop them just going somewhere else if they are refused?

My only real problem with the whole thing is that I think just about anyone is gorgeous, regardless of how much extra flab they have or how big their ears are. Everyone has at least one thing about them that, to me, makes them pretty. But, I'm aware that not all of society thinks that way, and I understand the pressure to look "perfect".

I agree with you to a point; little imperfections can sometimes be cute and there is no one standard of beauty that everyone should want to look like. On the other hand, there are certain things which clearly make people look more attractive, such as facial symmetry, and I think it is unrealistic to say that everyone is beautiful in their own way (unless you mean gorgeous to include other traits besides physical appearance, in which case just ignore this!)

[voices_in_my_hea...]

Crazymat - Yeah, That's what I meant. My standards of beauty depend largely on the person's personality. For example, A person can have all of the traits I find attractive, but if they have a bad personality, I'm likely to find something ugly about them anyway. the opposite is also true. (A person can be classically "ugly" but still appear pretty to me, due to them having a great personality.)

[leopold]

On the point of when it becomes too much, it's a relatively straightforward thing to work out. Anyone having liposuction on a flat stomach, or is on their third boob job, or is having their fifth bout of reconstructive surgery, is likely to be overdoing it. Before any cosmetic procedure, the client should be asked why they want the work doing and assess whether they are in a suitable frame of mind for the work. Any consultant surgeon should be able to identify a definite positive and whether someone is getting obsessed. Unfortunately, some are more likely to just take the cash, rather than consider any mental issues.

That doesn't sound very straightforward to me! How do you assess the client's frame of mind? Whats to stop them just going somewhere else if they are refused?

It's straightforward to tell if someone's overdoing it if they are having the same procedure on the same body part more than a couple of times. I'm sure there's medical records for such procedures, at least! For example, has Michael Jackson had too much rhinoplasty? Did Lolo Ferrari have too many boob jobs? What about Farrah Fawcett's facelifts? Or Liberace's, for that matter? Even an untrained northern monkey like me can spot those a mile off, so someone with a little training should be able to establish that, yes, three of the same procedure is too many.

As for frame of mind, I agree it's more complicated, but it doesn't need to be hard. If someone with a bent nose or excess facial hair came in, then it's a no-brainer, they are probably mentally fine. If it's a breast augmentation or liposuction, it shouldn't be too much of a leap to discover what the driving force is. In the case of lipo, information on diet would also need to be dispensed. However, if the nose is nice or the body parts in question are reasonably proportioned, then I'd want to establish the mental condition by recommending seeing a psychotherapist or a counsellor. If the person runs off screaming "I'm not a loony!" then chances are they don't need the procedure that badly! Yes, facetious it may be, but it's a reasonable filter. Anyone who then goes on to see the counsellor will then have a report fed back on their mental suitability.

Of course, they could just go somewhere else, because there's no regulation. For every properly qualified practice, there's several Dr. Nick's and some dodgy places in Eastern Europe to turn to instead. Unfortunately, money talks, and if the surgeon doesn't have any qualms about taking your money, he isn't going to bother himself to find out if you're in the best frame of mind to undergo the surgery.

[Mata]

That's the problem with regulation of that kind of thing: cosmetic surgery is most often for non-medical reasons, and in that capacity it's a service industry. Nose-job to go? You got it.

[Daria]

Mass update on lots of posts.
Anyway:
I don't agree with cosmetic surgery for "beauty" reasons. It encourages the idea that there's a perfect human shape people should be aiming for, whether that be thin, curvaceous, hairy, hairless, pouty, or whatever. However, if someone feels incredibly upset with their body, then they should be allowed to inject as much poison, break as many bones or suck out as much fat as they wish. There should be more attention paid to the reasons why they are doing it- counselling should come as standard. And it shouldn't be advertised- like cigarettes. I'm sick of seeing adverts for lunchtime boobjobs on the tube.

[elphaba2]

It makes me sad that basically every male I know dispenses high-fives like crazy every time boob jobs are brought up. Despite the fact that I know these dudes to be kind, caring, liberal--supportive of women's rights, would never ever tell a girl she was anything other than perfect (and honestly mean it)--they still automatically perk up (yes, pun intended) when new tits are mentioned. Which always leaves me in 'what te fuuuaaaaaagggghh' mode.

Grah, you suck societal pressure.

[Daria]

You should carry round flashcards with pictures of "gone wrong" surgery. You know the kind, the ones you get in trashy magazines about I GOT A TUMMY TUCK IN A SEEDY BACKSTREET SURGERY WHERE THE SURGEON COULDN'T SPEAK ENGLISH AND DIDN'T WEAR GLOVES, AND NOW I'M SURPRISED THAT I HAVE AN INFECTION stories. It probably won't stop them from being jerks, but they might feel a bit grossed out for a while.

[Mata]

So, in eight hours, I'm getting 2000 tiny little holes in my head. Eek!

[froggle-rock]

Can I name one?

[Mata]

If you want. I think there are enough that everyone could name one.

[froggle-rock]

Sweet. I shall name it Sophia.

hope it goes well, mister

[Pikasyuu]

I want to name mine Jack Dawson. This is a good idea.

[Yannick]

Ooh, I'm naming mine Nathanial.

[Mata]

Pick again! An ex had a pet rat called Nathaniel, so I'm vetoing that one!

[believe]

I hope the 2000 tiny holes surgery goes well.

[Yannick]

Pick again! An ex had a pet rat called Nathaniel, so I'm vetoing that one!

Nathan? Daniel? Nate?

[leopold]

2000 holes? You could half fill the Albert Hall with them

I want to call one of the holes a name, but I'm struggling a bit... Percy? Nah. Derek? No, that's more a pigeon name. Eric... Albert... Heston... no, no, no. Ooh! I know! Herbert, in honour of my old cat.

[Moosh]

Well, if my adding up is right you've had it done by now. Hope it went well.

Also, I'm naming one Fergus.

[EvilSpork]

Bernard. That is all.

[mooooooooooopo]

I have decided upon Walter.