Revised Pledge of Allegiance Options

[Yannick]

This is what my friends and I do in our spare time..

I'm personally trying to get this bull removed from our schools, by whatever means possible. Written by my friend Chris and I.

I pledge no allegiance to the flag of the Divided States of Embarrassment, and to the religion that stole the nation, 300 million people, under Fox News, with intolerance and bigotry for all.

http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/note.php...49&comments
http://the-fragged-mind.blogspot.com/2009/...allegiance.html

[Pikasyuu]

*shrugs* Pep rallies can come next if I feel like it? Honestly, I just thought about that today. Pep rallies only influence people beliefs to the point of "Oh, hey, my football team is going to beat your football team, in your face, hahaha". But yeah, they're a total waste of time, though I think the pledge is a bit more important right now?

You seem to have missed the point of that question. Your major argument for whining about the pledge instead of simply sitting down and not saying it was that it is a waste of your time - so are a lot of things, and you obviously have no interest in going after any of those other activities or points of downtime in your day. That nullifies your argument as something that you threw up there as a non-religion related reason. Why you're so desperate to act as though your anti-pledge feelings aren't rooted in religion is beyond me, because you make it so obvious that it is all by yourself.

Your other issue had to do with pledging to this country, right? Since..it isn't religion? So, only the 'best country' can have a pledge? If any other country even vaguely shows some kind of pride, they are HORRIBLE PEOPLE, right? Your argument makes no sense. We've gone over how it isn't anywhere near the top of the list of time wasters, we've acknowledged that every country has a right to like and take pride in itself, as only one can be 'the best' and it's clearly a matter of opinion, and the rest is your issue with a God. So, I take that back, if anyone else made the same argument you personally are making, I'd think it was just as much of a mess as I do right now.

I never said you were the only one that agrees with the base idea of it. In fact, I wouldn't mind at all if we removed the pledge. It's your see-through reasoning, the fact that your argument has so many holes it's embarrassing, and then to top it off, everything aside from the religious part looks like you threw it in to say 'LOOK!! LOOK!! IT'S NOT JUST RELIGION, I DON'T JUST HATE RELIGIOUS PEOPLE!!' Making up a parody pledge that basically calls the entire country hateful, stupid sheep doesn't make it look like your opinion is 'America isn't the worst country, it just isn't the best!' either. I don't know why you always backtrack to soften something harsh you've said when you've already said the harsh version. I am not a goldfish, I can remember (or scroll up) to see everything you've said.

Maybe if you said something like, 'the pledge has no point', I'd believe you. But all of your other points are either things you've proven you don't believe, make no sense, or are simply hypocritical. You haven't addressed the idea of putting your energy into something that betters peoples' lives, either, which makes me wonder if you don't just like to stir up controversy for the sake of doing it.

[Yannick]

You seem to have missed the point of that question. Your major argument for whining about the pledge instead of simply sitting down and not saying it was that it is a waste of your time - so are a lot of things, and you obviously have no interest in going after any of those other activities or points of downtime in your day. That nullifies your argument as something that you threw up there as a non-religion related reason. Why you're so desperate to act as though your anti-pledge feelings aren't rooted in religion is beyond me, because you make it so obvious that it is all by yourself.

There's actually very little we do in school in a day that is a "waste of time". Pep rallies are bimonthly, not daily, and attendance is optional. The difference between pep-rallies and the pledge is that, although both are optional, the kids that choose to attend the pep rally leave class to do so, while everyone that wants to stay in class can, without learning being disrupted. What else is there in my day? The chatting between work being completed and the teacher teaching us something else? Unavoidable - everyone works at different paces. Lunch? A necessity. There's hardly enough between everyone finding each other, getting lunch, and actually eating anyway. The announcements? Well, I generally like knowing what school events are going on, what's for lunch, any cool contests, etc. The time between classes? Is a bit short tbh. Pretty much have to run, depending what side of the campus I'm on and where I need to go. The pledge? Oh, hai, that I could do without.

Dude, if I openly admit, all the time, how anti-religious I am, what would my point be to cover this up? We've established that, you can stop creating a strawman now and take my argument for what it is, not the religious implications you want me to have.

Btw, this dude (whose post you can actually see in the original debate thread) is Christian and agrees with me. That's a minor fail on your part.

Your other issue had to do with pledging to this country, right? Since..it isn't religion? So, only the 'best country' can have a pledge? If any other country even vaguely shows some kind of pride, they are HORRIBLE PEOPLE, right? Your argument makes no sense. We've gone over how it isn't anywhere near the top of the list of time wasters, we've acknowledged that every country has a right to like and take pride in itself, as only one can be 'the best' and it's clearly a matter of opinion, and the rest is your issue with a God. So, I take that back, if anyone else made the same argument you personally are making, I'd think it was just as much of a mess as I do right now.

[color=purple]What? You're making stuff up again. I don't care about the existence of the pledge, I care about it being present in schools. We've gone over how it is one of the primary time wasters _in school_, I don't care if a country wants to take pride in itself, and this has nothing to do with God. Man. You are so just twisting my argument into what you want it to be (just another "God is bad" rant) so you can think you have a reason to be wrong when in fact you're ignoring my points entirely.

I never said you were the only one that agrees with the base idea of it. In fact, I wouldn't mind at all if we removed the pledge. It's your see-through reasoning, the fact that your argument has so many holes it's embarrassing, and then to top it off, everything aside from the religious part looks like you threw it in to say 'LOOK!! LOOK!! IT'S NOT JUST RELIGION, I DON'T JUST HATE RELIGIOUS PEOPLE!!' Making up a parody pledge that basically calls the entire country hateful, stupid sheep doesn't make it look like your opinion is 'America isn't the worst country, it just isn't the best!' either. I don't know why you always backtrack to soften something harsh you've said when you've already said the harsh version. I am not a goldfish, I can remember (or scroll up) to see everything you've said.

Dude, chill with the religion. Accept that I'm capable of disliking other things, yeah?

Yeah, the pledge was distasteful. That was the point. The point was to morph it into something as anti-American (or something Americans would disagree with, it was almost "one nation, under Westboro Church") as possible so people could disagree with it. Then we throw in some "Hey, freedom of speech" stuff, point out that they're essentially doing the same thing and it just happens to be with an opinion more people agree with, which somehow leads to it being removed. 'Cos if we can pledge one thing in schools, why can't we pledge with opposite? It's only fair?

In case you once again aren't capable of following my logic, let me clear it up. I don't actually agree that the US is some terrible country, nor do I completely agree with the pledge we wrote. The point is that it uncovers the the flawed reasoning behind having the pledge in schools to begin with. If the school can decide that saying one thing is okay, but saying the opposite is a nono, then that violates freedom of speech and is wrong. Rather than just banning the opinion they disagree with, both should just be taken out of schools, especially as really, unless it's a club or something, neither have a place there.

Maybe if you said something like, 'the pledge has no point', I'd believe you.

Ready? THE PLEDGE HAS NO POINT. That's what all my other points were trying to point out, but you somehow missed that entirely.

But all of your other points are either things you've proven you don't believe, make no sense, or are simply hypocritical. You haven't addressed the idea of putting your energy into something that betters peoples' lives, either, which makes me wonder if you don't just like to stir up controversy for the sake of doing it.

Because you're doing nothing but turning them into strawman arguments so you can disagree with me for my feelings towards theists.

I donate blood (or, well, have once, but plan to whenever I can). I am an officer of two school clubs where we organize events and do all the not so fun stuff that needs to be done. I'm in Mu Alpha Thetha, where along with competing we provide free after school math tutoring. I do the dishes. Uh.. I dunno, the rest of my time is spent in school, doing school related things, or doing things I enjoy doing (like this). I could try to find the cure for cancer, but I don't think I'd be very successful at that right now. We just have to accept that in certain times of our lives, there are battles we can fight, and battles we can't. I'm probably capable of fighting this one right now, and if it will enhance my life, what's so bad about that?