Revised Pledge of Allegiance Options

[Yannick]

This is what my friends and I do in our spare time..

I'm personally trying to get this bull removed from our schools, by whatever means possible. Written by my friend Chris and I.

I pledge no allegiance to the flag of the Divided States of Embarrassment, and to the religion that stole the nation, 300 million people, under Fox News, with intolerance and bigotry for all.

http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/note.php...49&comments
http://the-fragged-mind.blogspot.com/2009/...allegiance.html

[Pikasyuu]

There's actually very little we do in school in a day that is a "waste of time". Pep rallies are bimonthly, not daily, and attendance is optional. The difference between pep-rallies and the pledge is that, although both are optional, the kids that choose to attend the pep rally leave class to do so, while everyone that wants to stay in class can, without learning being disrupted. What else is there in my day? The chatting between work being completed and the teacher teaching us something else? Unavoidable - everyone works at different paces. Lunch? A necessity. There's hardly enough between everyone finding each other, getting lunch, and actually eating anyway. The announcements? Well, I generally like knowing what school events are going on, what's for lunch, any cool contests, etc. The time between classes? Is a bit short tbh. Pretty much have to run, depending what side of the campus I'm on and where I need to go. The pledge? Oh, hai, that I could do without.

Dude, if I openly admit, all the time, how anti-religious I am, what would my point be to cover this up? We've established that, you can stop creating a strawman now and take my argument for what it is, not the religious implications you want me to have.

Btw, this dude (whose post you can actually see in the original debate thread) is Christian and agrees with me. That's a minor fail on your part.

What I saw there were things that you, personally, consider not to be wastes of time. What about the thoughts of others? What if someone likes to say the pledge? Oh, yeah, it's there for them, and you can sit there and do something useful for those ten seconds. Well, assuming you have something planned for them. And with all this resentment..you do, don't you? I mean, of course you get those eight days a year compiled into brand new days all on their own where you can frolick and do whatever you like, it isn't like they're still ten seconds once every day while other people can do something they may want to and you can opt out of it. This country is so inhumane, what with its forci--oh, wait, you aren't forced. Sorry.

Also, lmfao @ 'he's Christian and he agrees with me'. That's like people accused of racism going, 'dude, I have black friends.' I don't care who agrees with you. I have no opinion on the pledge either way, but I think your reasoning is a farce. For the 18th time. If you do care so much about who agrees with you, I haven't seen anyone in this thread, you know, the one where we're debating? That thread. Nobody's gone, 'OMG Izzy, great idea!' Mostly, people have acknowledged that it's not really ten seconds worth crying and kicking about for extra attention. I haven't used that because I know that the more you tell someone there is no point, the more of a potential martyr they feel like they'll become.

What? You're making stuff up again. I don't care about the existence of the pledge, I care about it being present in schools. We've gone over how it is one of the primary time wasters _in school_, I don't care if a country wants to take pride in itself, and this has nothing to do with God. Man. You are so just twisting my argument into what you want it to be (just another "God is bad" rant) so you can think you have a reason to be wrong when in fact you're ignoring my points entirely.

You do realize arguments can go on about implications, right? Like, how you tend to imply ten thousand things and then go 'I never said that'? Yeah, that. Re: it being present in schools, that brings me back to pointing out the fact that like I said, maybe some people do want to say the pledge and you are allowed to opt out of it. It isn't my fault that you say bad things about a country up and down and then state that you have a problem with the content of the pledge. The. Content. You are the one who brought up the content of it. I am proving that your issues with the pledge's content are invalid. Now, if you want to say your only issue with it is suddenly that we're saying it in school, fine by me, we both know you're full of it. That wasn't what you said in your original arguments, though. You hashed the content, you whined about your time being wasted. Don't say I'm twisting your words when these were your words and implications in the first place. Don't worry, I wont insult your debate 'technique', since we all know you're the master at these and always win. You know, because you're always right.

And there's no need to even touch that 'you're ignoring my points', it speaks for itself.

I bring up religion because for the 3219i8471289381212399th time, your argument is based on religion. Then you say it isn't. Now you're like, 'OMG, fine, it is!! Geez, chill!!' There wouldn't be anything to address if you hadn't denied it. Hurr.

So, wait. You want to pledge this ~*~edgy~*~ pledge to upset people so that you can go 'NOW YOU KNOW HOW THIS OPPRESSION FEELS'? Go ahead and pledge with the opposite. It does debunk your whole 'America isn't a bad country!' spiel, though. Oh, no, sorry, you were being edgy on purpose. You don't actually believe the parody pledge. ..Right?

Ready? THE PLEDGE HAS NO POINT. That's what all my other points were trying to point out, but you somehow missed that entirely.

Hey, internet high five, you did it! Now you can stop making up things about how you really want your ten seconds back!

In case you once again aren't capable of following my logic, let me clear it up. I don't actually agree that the US is some terrible country, nor do I completely agree with the pledge we wrote.

Wow. Here, let me cite for you where I acknowledged that you said America isn't the best country or the worst. If you need a few where I point out that I obviously understand you disagree with the content of the pledge, scroll up. You know, if you're capable of reading.

Making up a parody pledge that basically calls the entire country hateful, stupid sheep doesn't make it look like your opinion is 'America isn't the worst country, it just isn't the best!' either.

See? I obviously know you said it. Do I believe it? Not necessarily, based on other things you have said, so why argue? That one is obviously a matter of opinion.

Because you're doing nothing but turning them into strawman arguments so you can disagree with me for my feelings towards theists.

Please scroll up to the part about why I'm talking to you about theism. If you can follow it, I mean.

I donate blood (or, well, have once, but plan to whenever I can). I am an officer of two school clubs where we organize events and do all the not so fun stuff that needs to be done. I'm in Mu Alpha Thetha, where along with competing we provide free after school math tutoring. I do the dishes. Uh.. I dunno, the rest of my time is spent in school, doing school related things, or doing things I enjoy doing (like this). I could try to find the cure for cancer, but I don't think I'd be very successful at that right now. We just have to accept that in certain times of our lives, there are battles we can fight, and battles we can't. I'm probably capable of fighting this one right now, and if it will enhance my life, what's so bad about that?

Thank you. Next time, don't make snappy remarks about me not reading what you write when it took you several posts to answer one question repeatedly asked to you. You're getting much better at this logic thing.

[Yannick]

What I saw there were things that you, personally, consider not to be wastes of time. What about the thoughts of others? What if someone likes to say the pledge? Oh, yeah, it's there for them, and you can sit there and do something useful for those ten seconds. Well, assuming you have something planned for them. And with all this resentment..you do, don't you? I mean, of course you get those eight days a year compiled into brand new days all on their own where you can frolick and do whatever you like, it isn't like they're still ten seconds once every day while other people can do something they may want to and you can opt out of it. This country is so inhumane, what with its forci--oh, wait, you aren't forced. Sorry.

No, what I pointed out are things that are necessary in schools, that either exist by law (lunch for instance, though you have choose where you eat and what you do) or because that IS what school is. Like doing work. I'm sorry, I realize people think school work is a waste of time, and certain assignments are entirely, but that's sort of what school is, so getting rid of work won't really do any good. If you personally (not you as in you, just someone in generally) thinks work is a waste of time, then there's not much point of them being in school to begin with.

It doesn't matter what I want to do with my time and whether or not I have anything planned. Having nothing better to do (though I can come up with lots of things) is not reason enough for the pledge to exist in schools. See, that's the thing. No one has yet pointed out why we actually do the pledge. We just do it because.. well.. we've always done it? Just like we've always done DARE and sex-ed pledges where we promise to not do drugs or have sex? I'm cool with the drug and sex education. It's totally important. I'd be cool with maybe some mini-unit on the pledge, its significance, who wrote it, that sorta thing. But the second a school starts influencing your opinion on the country, your religion, sex, drugs, or anything else, that's just wrong. Those are matters to be discussed at home. Whether you want to admit it or not, it does create awkward situations, like "Oh hey dude, why aren't you saying the pledge and wearing the no drugs bracelet and no sex ring?" "Uhh, I dunno dude, because I'm not." "But why?" "Just because." And then they offer you extra credit if you do. I mean, major influencing or what? You still have the choice to opt out, of course, but that doesn't mean it should be there in the first place. TEACH us why the pledge is important, why drugs are bad, why we should wait to have sex. Don't just get us to wear goofy little stickers and stuff, practically forcing us to sign/say pledges, making promises people pretty much aren't going to keep, but they're signing to fit in. If it comes to the point someone has to lie to fit in, it doesn't belong in schools. And if you can't promote the opposite opinion of what is being encourage without getting in trouble for it, it doesn't belong in schools.

Re: it being present in schools, that brings me back to pointing out the fact that like I said, maybe some people do want to say the pledge and you are allowed to opt out of it.

I've covered this. If people want to say the pledge, that's fine by me, but they do not need to waste the time of other people by doing it. If they really feel they need to say it, what's so hard about gathering together 60 seconds before the bell rings in the morning, and saying it? Hell, you can even have your little pledging circle announced on the news. Everyone's happy that way, I don't see what the big deal is. No one has to opt out that way, they can either choose to put forth the almost nonexistent extra effort (oh no, I need to be on this side of campus in the morning instead of over there *sob*) or not say the pledge in the morning. And hey, if you can't make it in the morning, there's always during lunch and after school! So many options! So much better than during my science class! ...

It isn't my fault that you say bad things about a country up and down and then state that you have a problem with the content of the pledge. The. Content. You are the one who brought up the content of it. I am proving that your issues with the pledge's content are invalid. Now, if you want to say your only issue with it is suddenly that we're saying it in school, fine by me, we both know you're full of it. That wasn't what you said in your original arguments, though. You hashed the content, you whined about your time being wasted. Don't say I'm twisting your words when these were your words and implications in the first place. Don't worry, I wont insult your debate 'technique', since we all know you're the master at these and always win. You know, because you're always right.

Insults from a mod? Nice.

You once again failed to follow simple logic. If a school can openly support an opinion, students should be able to advocate the opposite, hence the "America Sucks" pledge. If the school decides their opinion should be pledged to on a daily basis, holders of the opposite opinion should be entitled to pledge the opposite. If the school cannot meet this demand, then from that we can conclude that the issue is either too controversial to be dealt with in schools, or realize that their opinion is not sensitive enough to the beliefs of others. If this is the conclusion, then the topic should just be removed from schools entirely, and the problem is solved. (By remove I mean having the actual administration explicitly support it. It can still be discussed, just like religion, politics, sex, drugs, but no actual opinions should be given.) Does that make sense to you _this_ time?

And there's no need to even touch that 'you're ignoring my points', it speaks for itself.

Allow me to change 'ignoring' to simply 'not comprehending'. I gave you the benefit of the doubt.

I bring up religion because for the 3219i8471289381212399th time, your argument is based on religion. Then you say it isn't. Now you're like, 'OMG, fine, it is!! Geez, chill!!' There wouldn't be anything to address if you hadn't denied it. Hurr.

When did I say the "OMG, it is, chill!!!"? The meant to come off as "Omg, chill already, you couldn't be more off the mark that it's starting to annoy me, considering that's what 80% of your rebut of my argument is composed of." This. Is. Not. Based. On. Religion. Can you get that through your head? If you can't, which meh, I can somewhat understand given my history, then maaan, focus on other things. The only references I've made to religion would probably be the "Under God" and the analogy to prayer (I didn't reread. If you want to nitpick and point out other things, whatever. I'm sure they're innocent references as well.)

Wow. Here, let me cite for you where I acknowledged that you said America isn't the best country or the worst. If you need a few where I point out that I obviously understand you disagree with the content of the pledge, scroll up. You know, if you're capable of reading.

Making up a parody pledge that basically calls the entire country hateful, stupid sheep doesn't make it look like your opinion is 'America isn't the worst country, it just isn't the best!' either.

See? I obviously know you said it. Do I believe it? Not necessarily, based on other things you have said, so why argue? That one is obviously a matter of opinion.

Lol, whether or not I hate a country is most definitely not a matter of opinion. I'm pretty sure I know far more than you do about myself, what I hate, what I merely put up with, and what I enjoy. You can either choose to believe what I tell you or ignore it. Frankly, whether or not I hate the US at the point doesn't even matter. (I don't hate it, I'm not sure I like it, I just live here.) The point is that the pledge doesn't belong in schools, and the parody pledge was just one of our strategies to express this. See above for why.

Please scroll up to the part about why I'm talking to you about theism. If you can follow it, I mean.

Please see above where I point out I wasn't even really talking about theism, just relating comparable things because the pledge and prayer are really alike. If you can follow it, I mean.