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> Feeling Crappy, and could use some help
Sir Maxerpopple
post Mar 9 2004, 09:45 PM
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Is conformity, consumption, and obedience really that bad?
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One of my closest friends and I are currently not on speaking terms, nor have we been for 2 or 3 weeks. It was all my fault, throughout the school year I had unknowingly manipulated her, taking her down with me on my downwards emotional spiral. She is someone whom I have romantic feelings for, however these only go one way. I asked her out early in the school year, and since then have been nothing but a roller coaster with her, unable to control or fully understand my emotions or how to cope with them. I ignorantly used her and treated her unfairly.

2 or 3 weeks ago she explained to me in full what I had done, she is going through alot and I only added to the burden. I was unaware of my crimes against her until that time. Now we aren't speaking, with the exception of one occasion. 1 or 2 weeks ago I calle dher after being in a horrid state of self loathing for two days followed by three days of almost euphoria. When I called her I had more or less leveled off, and asked her if she wanted to continue our friendship or end it. Overcome with her own issues, she was indecisive, however we reached the conclusion that we wouldn't speak until she was ready if ever to speak to me again. She said "even if it's not for a while, don't lose hope, it takes a while for me to talk to someone after such a thing". We have basically adhered to that however sometimes a few brief words between us are uttered, however nothing closely resembling a conversation.

For the past few days I have been going on cycles of despair and bliss, despair in school, bliss at home. I don't frankly know what to do now. I have come to realize the horrible thing that I did, part of me has died from this ordeal. I now know the effect I can have on people, and this was a life lesson I should have learned a while ago. But to think that for me to learn something I had to hurt someone else is quite a painful thing. I never want to hurt anyone ever again.

I don't know what to do. Speaking to her now sounds like a bad idea, but going on this way is no picnic either. I know deep down I just have to wait it out, but it's one of the hardest things I've ever had to do. She is one of my two close friends, I love them both as friends and to be in classes with her and not be able to utter a word is becoming too much. I don't know what to do, and could appreciate some help. How can I cope with such a situation? We are going on a school away trip late April and I don't want an awkward experiance between us. Any help you could give me here would be very much appreciated, I don't know where else to turn.

Thank you.


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TigerLily013
post Mar 10 2004, 12:52 AM
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Well sounds like a real problem indeed. I've had those probs before but not as complex as yours seems to be.

First thing you definitely did after making your mistake was owning up to it. Some people are just too self-loving that they never recognize it. Least your friend pointed it out and you took responsibility. That makes you highly respectable in my eyes.

Your friend and you probably should let you too continue to stay apart. Maybe that sounds odd and harsh for you, but keep on holding your head up high. She just needs to remember the good times, how you and her bonded. Might takee a while to come around but in the end, speaking to you again will be all worth it so do not despair.

As for feelings towards her (you know what I am talking about), if it's only one way meaning only you then I would not push anything especially after she starts speaking to you again. So you two can't get romantically involved, so what? You guys can still be close friends once the ugliness is behind you and her. Definitely could be worse at that point.

I do wish the best of luck in this. Sometimes life and be down, discouraging and just plain old sucky. Best way to overcome bad times like this is to think neutrally (not getting optimistic or pessimistic), keep on pushing through the storm, and and stay in the present (not trying to plan the future, deal with today). One day at a time.

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Sir Maxerpopple
post Mar 10 2004, 01:00 AM
Post #3


Is conformity, consumption, and obedience really that bad?
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Thank you very much, when I'm feeling down I will read these posts again I'm sure.

My romantic feelings for her are what caused the mess in the first place. I asked her out, which didn't happen. I then thought I was over her, then thought I wasn't, then thought I was, then thought I wasn't. I was confusing and melding emotions together that didn't belong together. I love her as a friend, but at one point I thought that it was romantic love, which it was not, so now I'm just in a deeper hole. Telling someone you love them when you aren't sure what your emotions are telling you isn't a great idea. sad.gif

I know I'll just have to work through it, thank you for your support. smile.gif


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Mata
post Mar 10 2004, 12:00 PM
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Sounds like a tough situation. Your friend is probably right when she says that it's something that will take time to work itself out. Often things like this seem really bad for a long time then suddenly it's not there anymore, you talk to the person and you both think 'why weren't we talking for so long?' It takes time for that to happen.

I know it's not easy, but it sounds like you're doing the right thing, keep having patience. These things stay issues as long as you let them. It sounds like you know you've made mistakes in the past, and it's possible that you might make them again in the future, that's just part of being human, but the longer you keep beating yourself up about it the longer it will take to resolve.

Here's a real 'easier-said-than-done' moment; act like you're not worrying about it any more. If you force your body to be relaxed the mind tends to go with it, so relax those shoulders, don't tense your fingers, relax the muscles in your cheeks (on your face! tongue.gif ) and breath normally. Remember to check these things next time you talk to her and if she senses that you are relaxed she will relax too and you'll be a lot closer to patching things up than you were before. Oh, don't forget to smile too! Eye contact is always good as well, it builds trust. Relax physically and stop wondering what she's thinking, you'll find you're a lot happier for it.

Essentially what's most likely happened is that you've become a bit too intense in your feelings towards her and she's just become wary of you. It's no fun being around people who are massively emotionally invested in you when you don't feel the same way, it puts you on edge and so you try to avoid the situation for both your sakes. If the person then seems to have relaxed more then they seem a lot more approachable again.


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the lil' pie...
post Mar 10 2004, 03:00 PM
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like mata said, if you seem more relaxed it'll make it easier on her. just have faith, i've had friends in this type of situation and they've just had to sit it out, but sooner or later things sort themselves out. they're better for having been left to run their natural course, ultimately.
you always seem like a nice person, i get the feeling it'll work out alright in the end (sorry for sounding so cliched *hug*) and remember we're all here for you smile.gif


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franken-sarah
post Mar 10 2004, 08:39 PM
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Sorry to hear you're feeling bad just now *hugs*

I do think the situation you're in is very complicated but, and not knowing the whole story, I do feel like you're maybe being really hard on yourself. You said that you've "unknowingly" manipulated this person; to me manipulation is a horrid, and concious, thing, and from what you're saying you haven't conciously hurt this person.

Don't shoot me down for this one either but are you sure she's not using you just a little bit too?? I might be way off, but playing games with people and saying "well, I'll speak when I'm ready" and that type of thing is not a good way to start to heal things between you. (Maybe she's not playing games and genuinely just needs some space but I think she could have put it to you differently, however, I do accept that the situation is probably uncomfortable for her as it is painful for you). I assume that she's aware that you didn't willfully do anything to hurt her? If she does realise that, and how upset you are by what's happened, she's maybe wanting some pay-back.... sorry if I'm way off with this.

Anyway, it's always awkward when there are tow people and they don't feel the same way about each other. I had a similar situation with my best friend, years ago now, and we're fine. He's split with his girlfriend and suddenly declared his love for me - I was mortified. But, I told him that he was my best friend and that I loved him that way, it was embarrassing for both of us for a while but, like I said, we're cool now.

So, hope you get things sorted out and you feel better soon smile.gif


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Sir Maxerpopple
post Mar 10 2004, 10:07 PM
Post #7


Is conformity, consumption, and obedience really that bad?
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QUOTE
Here's a real 'easier-said-than-done' moment; act like you're not worrying about it any more. If you force your body to be relaxed the mind tends to go with it, so relax those shoulders, don't tense your fingers, relax the muscles in your cheeks (on your face!  ) and breath normally. Remember to check these things next time you talk to her and if she senses that you are relaxed she will relax too and you'll be a lot closer to patching things up than you were before. Oh, don't forget to smile too! Eye contact is always good as well, it builds trust. Relax physically and stop wondering what she's thinking, you'll find you're a lot happier for it.
Today there was a club meeting we had, us two, t eh team captain and another person. I didn't have to be there, but since it was a philosophy lecture I decided to go. I was relaxed around her, we even had at one brief moment what could be considered "normal conversation", but the entire thing didn't feel quite right. She at some times ignored my statements/questions, but (and I may be blowing this out of proportion and may be wrong here) that sometimes happened before this entire thing, just the way meetings operate. I still don't think things are ready for my talking to her so I'm going to leave it off for right now.
QUOTE
Don't shoot me down for this one either but are you sure she's not using you just a little bit too??
That i doubt. I don't believe she is one to operate that way. There are other things she is going through as well which only serve to complicate the issue.
QUOTE
I do feel like you're maybe being really hard on yourself.
I deserve every ounce of pain I am feeling, this experiance has taught me that hurting someone else is one of the lowest, base things you can do. i was too stupid to realize my affect on other people, and now I deserve my punishment for that stupidity.

Should I refrain at all costs from IMing her since my judgement is quite clouded? To what extent should I talk with her in person just as normal conversation? As I said today was awkward, it didn't feel quite right, and I don't want to crowd her? What should I do with that?

And thank you all for being so supportive. smile.gif


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sammi
post Mar 10 2004, 10:31 PM
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As cliched as it sounds, the world is coming to an end. *nods*
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For one thing, your simply respecting her space and such is rather admirable in my opinion. And so is fessing up to whatever mistake you made, if you made one, though it sounds like it was more accidential than anything else (something that is, like Mata said, only *human*). There are so many people who wouldn't even do that, so at least admit to yourself you get some brownie points for that, you hear? ::prods.:: Why, you say? 'Cause I say so. happy.gif;;

Other than that bit, I'd basically reiterate what everyone else has been saying, but that would be a bit bland... As for IMing, I've been having some difficulty with such decisions myself concerning distant friends. It's tough, I know. If you feel like you wouldn't go off on a tangent or say something you would regret saying, then go for it. Just keep a clear head, relax, enjoy it, and remember the impact of your words. Face-to-face conversations are sometimes a lot harder because it is *really* hard to control instinctive movement that projects your actual emotions such as worry etc., like Mata said, but if you keep his suggestions in your thoughts, I'm sure things will go a bit more smoothly than they seem to have been. If you're still quite unsure, give it some time; your patience is bound to pay off. Easier said than done, I know, but better not making any more hurt than this situation can handle accidentially. Normally, I'm a fan of just asking people whether they want to talk or not and being bluntly truthful about it instead of causing myself more worry than necessary, but I doubt my tactless approach would help this... unsure.gif Either way, good luck, and I hope things start looking a bit brighter for you. If you ever need anything or just wanna rant, we're all just a PM away. smile.gif


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Sir Maxerpopple
post Mar 10 2004, 11:30 PM
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Is conformity, consumption, and obedience really that bad?
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I tried being blunt before, it blew up in m face. She isn't distant, I see her every day, which makes it worse. But I believe Mata is right when he says I am over-attached, it's a trend I tend to have sad.gif. I'll work on that. I'll just wait I suppose, try to work on just being happy.


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gothictheysay
post Mar 11 2004, 02:06 AM
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Actually, I am going through much of the same thing right now.

It's extremely hard for me to follow the advice that everyone gives me, but it's really best to. It's a LOT easier said than done, and it will probably take a lot of time, and I can sympathize with feeling really crappy and such. I tend to get clingy and overattached too.

Well, if weak me is slowly making my way through this, I'm sure you can. Good luck. I hope everything works out.


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TigerLily013
post Mar 11 2004, 03:13 AM
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Well keep your head above water and try to stay neutral minded.

*hugs*


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Sir Maxerpopple
post Mar 11 2004, 08:30 PM
Post #12


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I really want to stop beating myself up, anyone have any ideas about how to forget about someone or stop feeling bad when you see said person two classes a day and they do the same afterschool clubs as you?


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franken-sarah
post Mar 11 2004, 08:41 PM
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Hell, that's a hard one when you see her around so much. I don't think much is gonna help except letting a bit of time pass.... sorry, wish I could give you an answer that would make things better for you. *hugs*

I'm not very good a dealing with awkward or potentially confrontational situations myself, I tend to run away! Which, in your situation isn't really an option, but you can try to distance yourself mentally by keeping yourself occupied, doing positive stuff that you enjoy - I like a long, fast walk with loud music in my ears!

Sammi's totally right about it being very brave of you to admit to your mistake though, and respecting your friends space.


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Sir Maxerpopple
post Mar 13 2004, 01:55 AM
Post #14


Is conformity, consumption, and obedience really that bad?
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Here's an update for you.

I went the entire day today without wanting to curl up and die, only depressed at minor moments. Yay for me. Every once in a while she'll say something to me, without me starting anything, but this is minor. I really miss talking to her, but I don't want to do anything of initiative until she starts it, I'm afraid to push it. I'm hoping she'll IM me at some point, or talk to me in greater detail at school, right now I'm feeling..odd. Hard to explain, all I know is I miss her and I don't know what is going to happen in the future. I'll just have to wait and see.


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franken-sarah
post Mar 13 2004, 01:18 PM
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Glad you're feeling better, take things one step at a time *hugs* smile.gif


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Silver Star Ange...
post Mar 15 2004, 11:29 PM
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Deep stuff. Friendship can sometimes be more confusing then a romantic relationship. But don't go crazy over it. Maybe she's having an emotional-wacky thingy or something. Maybe you should talk to her and tell her that you're really, truly sorry and you want to start fresh. *hugs and hands you ice cream*


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Sir Maxerpopple
post Mar 16 2004, 12:52 AM
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Is conformity, consumption, and obedience really that bad?
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Why do I feel that if I say "let's forget the whole thing" I sound like a drug addict. I've told her before I was under control, I wasn't but I didn't realize it. I now know the source of my problems, I have trouble controlling emotions and don't know my effect on people. I'm just going to wait it out. We speak a few words every now and then in school, but only on practical things like "what was the work".

I just hope I can salvage a piece of what we had before the entire ordeal started. I'm afraid I've damaged our friendship beyond repair. F**king stupid a**hole me.


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Sir Maxerpopple
post Mar 16 2004, 09:51 PM
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Is conformity, consumption, and obedience really that bad?
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Update

Today was a bad day. Towards the the middle of it I began to feel awful, like I wanted to die right there. I took a few steps backward. Luckily I'm feeling relatively okay now.

/pointless vent


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Silver Star Ange...
post Mar 16 2004, 10:38 PM
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QUOTE (Sir Maxerpopple @ Mar 16 2004, 12:51 AM)
F**king stupid a**hole me.

Stop saying stuff like that!!! You're a great person and I'm sure she still thinks that. Friendship can't end just like that. She'll always have a place in her heart for you! Please cheer up! I'll give you cake if you do! *hugs for your bad day*


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Sir Maxerpopple
post Mar 17 2004, 02:13 AM
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I wouldn't call an inconsiderate and self-centered person all that great. I was feeling very bad when I wrote that, I'm in one of my better stages of the cycle again...for now.


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gothictheysay
post Mar 17 2004, 02:21 AM
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QUOTE
I'm afraid I've damaged our friendship beyond repair.


As, unfortunately, happens such. sad.gif at least you can recognize that. Make your best effort, but don't be too upset if you fail.

edit: oh I sound so encouraging. it could work too, but it just happened to me that way, so I'm on the pessimistic outlook, plus your situation has a greater recovery chance than mine. Best of luck smile.gif )


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Sir Maxerpopple
post Mar 27 2004, 03:43 AM
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I just feel bad again, and I have all day. I just need to vent, please bear with me.

I am at a complete loss as to what to do. We seem to have more one or two-liner conversations, but this is a minimal increase. We look at each other in class and laugh when a joke we both get has been made, as we did before, but this isn't a grand thing. I don't know to talk to her or not, she doesn't know about my new screen name and telling her would not be grand because she would feel like I'm trying to get her to start a conversation. I don't even know if I've been emailed or not.

I've been feeling alternately good and bad for the last three days. I just don't know what to do. I'm not sure if she is genuinely forgiving me slowly, starting to talk to me again but not forgiving me, or just appeasing me. And I'm afraid to start conversations. I make a point of smiling back at her when she smirks at me when a joke has been made only we would get, and I know this all sounds really silly to you all, but it's all I can do.

Gee, I must sound really pathetic talking about "making sure I laugh back". I feel like damned Holden Caulfield, and she's my Jane Gallagher. If she has any flaws, I sure haven't seen them in the relatively short time we've been friends(since beginning of school year). God knows she's seen my flaws. I suck as a person, I really do.

On the upside, she's talking more and more with a friend of hers who(without going into many details) made some stupid moves that made them not friends for a while. Maybe this is a good sign, but I'm afraid of optimism. I don't know.

I intend on buying Stravinsky's "Right Of Spring" tommorow, maybe that will cheer me up.

Any sort of help, even just a kind word, would be very much appreciated.


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Snugglebum the D...
post Mar 27 2004, 05:11 PM
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*huggles*

I've been following this thread since it began but don't really have anything constructive to add - it's a very hard situation.

So just...


*bigger huggles*


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Sir Maxerpopple
post Apr 3 2004, 01:22 AM
Post #24


Is conformity, consumption, and obedience really that bad?
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We seem to talk more now. I let her instigate conversations, but they last longer, and they have more substance to them. Maybe things are improving. However I think it'll be a while before she regains my trust, and I doubt things will ever be the same. Whether we'll ever talk online again or have one of our theraputic conversations is only left to time.

In short, things are sort of looking up. I don't feel great, the latter part of school I felt horrible, but it's an improvement.


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Sir Maxerpopple
post Apr 14 2004, 01:47 AM
Post #25


Is conformity, consumption, and obedience really that bad?
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Have you ever felt like your entire life has been worthless? Not even worthless, damaging. All I can think about is how horrible I must have been all this time, how inconsiderate, how self-centered, arrogant, and egotistical. I can't see any goodness in me or good qualities in me anymore. If any of you have ever felt this way, as I have been for several days, how can I stop it? I feel horrible. I've ruined a close friendship, and I can't take all this pain anymore. I don't have anyone I sufficiently trust to turn to, I desperately want to stop feeling this way. Do any of you have any ideas?


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