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> Prove Me Right, People, The question of doodling.
Tigersong
post Jun 26 2004, 07:34 AM
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So, we're having this marriage prep councilling seminar (which, by the way, I'm convinced is a money making scam... but, that's not the point here. tongue.gif ) and we have a pen and a paper and I'm just kind of listening to the speaker and doodling. So, Artemesia tells me in an angry type voice under her breath not to do it.

This later errupted into the most stupid argument we've ever had. I'm counting on you guys to prove me right! biggrin.gif

Do you doodle? Do you think most studnets doodle in class while taking notes? Do you think that doodling is in any way, shape or form disrespectful? Would you go out of your way to teach your children to not doodle? Or is this just a case of trying to keep up appearances that is utterly pointless and everybody doodles and it's no great offense? If you were a prof and someone was doodling, would you care?

Prove me right people! tongue.gif


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Artemisia
post Jun 26 2004, 07:40 AM
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I have no complaint about doodling while on the telephone, however....

I believe that during a reasonably formal / business event, as during a lecture or conference or speaker's presentation, it is only polite and good manners to give the speaker your attention - head up, watching them, actively listening, possibly making eye contact. You cannot tell me that when people are doodling, they are giving the speaker their UNDIVIDED attention.

I find doodling is a symbol of divided attention, even boredom. When I speak, I find it really rude when my audience makes it clear through the action of doodling that they are not giving me the respect and attention that I deserve.

Furthermore, as it was clear we were a couple, it embarrassed me that my partner appeared to be the only one in the room doodling- ie making an outward action of not listening - believe me, I looked for others. All I ask is that he not doodle, and not embarrass me. If he was to look blankly at a wall instead, even that would be less obvious.
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Tigersong
post Jun 26 2004, 07:50 AM
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QUOTE
I have no complaint about doodling while on the telephone, however....

I believe that during a reasonably formal / business event, as during a lecture or conference or speaker's presentation, it is only polite and good manners to give the speaker your attention - head up, watching them, actively listening, possibly making eye contact. You cannot tell me that when people are doodling, they are giving the speaker their UNDIVIDED attention.


Yeah, but the point is, NO ONE CARES. It's a mindless action taken with your hand. Your brain is barely conscious of it. I was paying perfect attention to the speaker and as far as anyone would know, I could be taking notes. And it's really no one's business whether or not I'm paying attention to the speaker (who, by the way, I was paying to tell bad jokes about sexual intimacy and financial planning... oi!). Out of, what, twenty, twenty-five couples in the room the speakers are *not* going to notice me, and if they did... so what?

Blarg. I'm right, you're wrong, and you know it. I was paying attention. I was doodling. NO ONE CARES!!! biggrin.gif

QUOTE
Furthermore, as it was clear we were a couple, it embarrassed me that my partner appeared to be the only one in the room doodling- ie making an outward action of not listening - believe me, I looked for others. All I ask is that he not doodle, and not embarrass me. If he was to look blankly at a wall instead, even that would be less obvious.


Psh. It embarrassed me more that you repeatedly angrily whispered at me and treated me like a child that had to be disciplined. I wasn't even paying attention to the doodling until you pointed it out to me that I was doing it, so then I STARTED doing it on purpose. So there. tongue.gif

Jesus, we sound like an old married couple already. ohmy.gif biggrin.gif


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Artemisia
post Jun 26 2004, 07:53 AM
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So, the end of the story is that we were both embarrassed by the other one, and, what have we learned? If Tigersong doesn't doodle, Artemisia isn't embarrassed, and if Artemisia isn't embarrassed, she doesn't hiss and Tigersong isn't embarrassed either!

Now, no more bringing fights to the boards! Although I would rather have given the 200 + dollars (that we paid for the counselling) to Mata to pay for the bandwidth and "counselling services" these forums offer! tongue.gif biggrin.gif
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MoonlightSavings...
post Jun 26 2004, 07:54 AM
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I gotta go with Artemisia. If my partner was the only one in the room who was doodling at a marriage prep counseling seminar, I'd be really embarrassed too. Not only does it look bad, but it would make me feel bad too, like my partner weren't taking it as seriously as I were. Doodling isn't inherently bad, but it does give the appearance that you're not really paying attention as much as you could be.

And yes, I doodle at appropriate times, but I've always tried not to out of respect for whomever is speaking or for whatever other reason. The way I see it, having an audience of doodlers makes it harder on the speaker, who is left feeling like they're talking to a blank wall. If I were a professor, yes, I'd feel insulted if someone was doodling during my lecturing.

If you don't agree with anything else I've just said, Tigersong, at the very least, it seems like the doodling was just badly timed in this instance.

(It feels presumptuous of me to jump into the middle of this argument, but hey, you guys invited it. smile.gif )


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MoonlightSavings...
post Jun 26 2004, 07:55 AM
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Ah I posted too late anyway.


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Tigersong
post Jun 26 2004, 08:00 AM
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QUOTE (MoonlightSavingsTime @ Jun 26 2004, 02:54 AM)
I gotta go with Artemisia. If my partner was the only one in the room who was doodling at a marriage prep counseling seminar, I'd be really embarrassed too. Not only does it look bad, but it would make me feel bad too, like my partner weren't taking it as seriously as I were. Doodling isn't inherently bad, but it does give the appearance that you're not really paying attention as much as you could be.

And yes, I doodle at appropriate times, but I've always tried not to out of respect for whomever is speaking or for whatever other reason. The way I see it, having an audience of doodlers makes it harder on the speaker, who is left feeling like they're talking to a blank wall. If I were a professor, yes, I'd feel insulted if someone was doodling during my lecturing.

If you don't agree with anything else I've just said, Tigersong, at the very least, it seems like the doodling was just badly timed in this instance.

(It feels presumptuous of me to jump into the middle of this argument, but hey, you guys invited it. smile.gif )

Meh. No presumption thingy thingy. It's really more funny than anything else.

I maintain that doodling is pretty harmless. I honestly was paying attention, just kind of mindlessly drawing little boxes and other little boxes around them. But then, when I was very rudely ORDERED to stop doing it... well, of course I HAD to continue. Just wouldn't be right, otherwise! laugh.gif

Yeah, you're probably right about the timing though.

Still! smile.gif


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Jaq
post Jun 26 2004, 08:04 AM
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Took this grammar!
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Awwwww, who's my little passive aggressive rebel?

You're right, it does seem silly *snerk*


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monkey_called_na...
post Jun 26 2004, 09:07 AM
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i guess it might just be me... but i cant pay attion to a speaker without doodling and boncing my knee... the bouncing keeps me awake.. or atleast tires to... (ive bounced myself to sleep in the middle of class) and the doodling keeps my brain active rather then me thinking about other things and blocking the speaker out all together.... im weired unsure.gif

so i think doodling is a good thing... because it keeps the brain active rather then staring off into space and zoning out...


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mooooooooooopo
post Jun 26 2004, 10:29 AM
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Im gonna have to go with Tigersong on this one.

During some random trip thing (can't remember what it was now) we had to do work in small groups with some official person supervising. One of the other people in the group had a go at me for doodling but the supervisor person was on my side and said they they thought doodling helps people concentrate. tongue.gif


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Greeneyes
post Jun 26 2004, 12:02 PM
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You should make this into a poll.

I doodle. Quite a lot. Usually in class, either when the teacher is speaking, ar when im writing something and I don't know what to write. I don't think doodling is really that rude. I mean, passing notes could be considered to be rude, as your attention is on the note and what it says as opposed to what is being said at the front. As faar as I'm concerned, as long as I don't have to concentrate with two sets of words in my head, I can pay attention. Doodling is pictures, so I'm ok with that. I can still listen. And like narth said, twitching and doodling is important. If i don't twich my foot or something, then i'll start fidgitting (sp?), and then i'll stop concentrating. But yeah, yay for doodling. Even if it means having to rewrite your coursework before you hand it in.


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TigerLily013
post Jun 26 2004, 03:57 PM
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Yeah I doodle when I listen, I doodle when I'm bored or sad or just because I can! So he doodled, could be worse...could be like falling asleep or yawning too loudly that could of really made the arguement worse.


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Raptor Red
post Jun 26 2004, 04:51 PM
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I couldn't care less. I carry a notebook with me wherever I go and sometimes I bring my sketchbook I am always drawing and doodling. laugh.gif


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post Jun 26 2004, 07:22 PM
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but...doodling helps me listen! i never seem to pay attention when i doodle, but the doodles help me place the knowledge somehow.
i mean...i revised for chemistry a while ago, and remembered the equations for the extraction of titanium because i'd doodled a particularly funky tribal design around the title of my notes! and i aced the question in the exam biggrin.gif

point proven, i add my vote to tigersong's point of view smile.gif


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CrazyFooIAintGet...
post Jun 26 2004, 08:38 PM
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Well I now know where I went wrong!
a ) doodle on my notes
b ) have notes!

tongue.gif

I dont see the harm in doodling as long as you're still paying attention. If you are then I dont think it matters what a few strangers think.


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Pab
post Jun 27 2004, 01:52 AM
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The problem with doodling in specific circumstances is that it unavoidably illustrates yur own involvemnet with what is happening ... ie: if you're in the 125th hour of maths with some lecturer, surrounded by another 200 people, then you can take the mass of anonimity and doodle ...
If you are in one lecture/group-session for a specific reason, then doodling is mostly an expression of your lack of concern for said subject matter. It's just rude.

As an extreme example, if I was in a work interview interwiewing an interviewee, and the person started doodling, he'd be one lucky mofo if he got hired, cos he is obviously too full of himself and not at all appreciative of the problems at hand ....


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gothictheysay
post Jun 27 2004, 06:08 PM
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I'm going to have to agree with Pab...

That said, I'm not sure whether doodling during my group therapy sessions is a bad thing - but all of us do it anyway and we're never offended by it! biggrin.gif


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Greeneyes
post Jun 27 2004, 07:13 PM
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QUOTE (Pab @ Jun 27 2004, 02:52 AM)
As an extreme example, if I was in a work interview interwiewing an interviewee, and the person started doodling, he'd be one lucky mofo if he got hired, cos he is obviously too full of himself and not at all appreciative of the problems at hand ....

You're right. That is extreme. And completely different. Lectures consist of group listening. Interviews consist of direct interaction.


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Phyllis
post Jun 28 2004, 12:41 AM
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You're both wrong! I'm not siding with either of you. tongue.gif

Geoff was wrong for doodling in a small group like that. If you're the only one doing it...it does look like you're not paying attention, even if you are. If it was a bigger group of people, then it'd be less noticeable and slightly more okay, I think. And Artemisia is wrong for scolding you like that. Again, probably very noticeable in such a small group. I can understand how you'd both be embarrassed.


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DarkInferno
post Jun 28 2004, 11:57 AM
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tbh I only feel like i'm listening if and while i'm doodling.


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the lil' pie...
post Jun 28 2004, 12:43 PM
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QUOTE (DarkInferno @ Jun 28 2004, 12:57 PM)
tbh I only feel like i'm listening if and while i'm doodling.

yep, that seems to be a common problem with people in my year at college. i think we use more paper doodling than we do making notes! blink.gif


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post Jun 28 2004, 01:50 PM
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maybe you could get the doodles psychoanalysed (sp?) and see if they have any significance to show wether or not you were listening...or something.

They say that your doodles reveal your innermost secrets...I think ph34r.gif


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Greeneyes
post Jun 28 2004, 03:20 PM
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I draw eyes a lot. I'm not sure I like the idea of innermost eyes...


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Feyliya
post Jun 29 2004, 05:52 AM
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I'm with Candice on this one. Doodling isn't bad at all, in a bigger group. And scolding your significant other in a public setting is never a good idea.

Doodling does help you remember things, though. I take all my notes in doodles. I can remember exactly what was said when I was drawing a particular part of something. I've remembered like that all my life. I wrote that way until the middle of 1st grade when I realized that other people couldn't read my doodling the way I could.


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