I'm intrigued, this was posted on a local forum I frequent, and I'm wondering what you guys make of fetishes and fantasys.

Whatcha into?

Yours in randomness!
RG

I was kicking around making this topic...

Anyway, aside from liking the normals (oral sex is fun, sex is fun, etc.) I've got a soft spot for threesomes. I'm actually gonna have one with my girl and a mutual friend soon. My fantasies, though? Hot tub sex. I also would love servicing a guy while being serviced myself.

Fetishes.... Does neck biting count? No blood, but some biting is just what the doctor ordered.

been done before

twice

Ah, but sitting on a forum is like the fashion world. 'Stay there long enough and everything comes around again.

I think biting probably does count as a fetish of sorts.

Technically though a fetish is supposed to be something without which the sexual experience cannot be complete for an individual. It's with this definition that I describe homo/heterosexuality as a fetish, because it requires the presence or imagination of the desired gender. Of course, I'm only joking about this, but using such a strict definition does lead to some interesting ideas, such as 'does a sexual fantasy without the presence of a desired gender represent a bisexual desire?' or do such fantasies simply support a the psychoanalytical interpretation of internal imagery as being unconsciously about sex?

I think I'm ending in the wrong place to be posting.... but Mata did bring up an intresting point.... so I'll reply....

We were acctually talking about fettishes in health the other day.... because it was a free period due to PSAT's.... and some kid was like "I have a fettish for...." I think it was like.... clean floors? I'm not sure, something non-sexual. So I tried explaining that its a desire for something sexual.... he flipped out "NUH -UHHH!! It is not! My mom says it all the time its not true!!!" so.... the poor guy.... Just thought I'd bring that up, its not really relevent. As for the true definition.... I would suppose if you dont have a preffered or desired gender that it would mean you're bisexual, but I think thousands of people right now are confused about their sexual prefrence, reason being because its almost like a fad these days to say you're bi, gay, or lez. I've had a few people my age (14) attempt physical.... relationships.... with people of the same gender.... thought it was cool and gloated about how they're bi.... and the next month tell me that they're not bi anymore. This acctually disturbs me. Also.... would it be a fetish if you're imagining going through physical stuff with someone, when you dont acctually want to touch them or cant acctually have them? Just a thought.... I think I'll leave it at that....

As for being on topic.... I dont have any fettishes, thankfully. I would be scared of myself at this age if I did.

If you can't really have something in reality I think it can still be a fetish. Again, going back to that defition that I read many years ago, it can still be something that you always need to have in your mind to find sexual fulfilment.

I think that this emphasises that sex is something that happens in the mind. To take an extreme example, some masochists fantasise about being tortured to death, this isn't something that you can play out (at least, not more than once!) but it can be in the mind while a person is performing a sexual act and hence they can find a climax.

Some people feel that they can only find sexual gratification with animals. Obviously they have a long adult movie career ahead of them, but this is most likely not something that the human body was designed for in genetic terms, so the sexual urge, the beastiality fetish, must be coming from the mind and not the body...

I'm using the Cartesian dualism here, arguing that such things as the mind and the body can ever be split, which in itself is based on a Christian principle of an immortal soul (if the mind and body are truly linked then the mind cannot be immortal). If we ignore the dualism idea, so that the mind and body are inter-related, then things get more difficult. Is a fetish for something 'unnatural' such as sex with animals, or nuns in rubber bondage, something that can be in the genes? Many argue that homosexuality is an unnatural act, something which I strongly argue against, but is the desire for a person of the same gender any different from any other desire that does not aid the procreation of the human race?

I think perhaps what I'm saying here is this: Is a fetish anything that a person desires sexually that is not strictly for purposes of procreation?

That.... is very.... intresting. The first thing that my subconcious says (because my subconcious for me is what does 90% of my thinking, therefore I practice tapping into it) is.... that everyone has and needs a fettish. But thats just the feeling the words give me, since alot of things give me ideas such as this automatically it starts to trouble me creating problems, meaning I need to think about it.... and work through the problem myself. Therefore I come upon the conclusion thaattt.... I have no friggin idea.

Sorry for that.... I dont think I have a fettish. Which I soppose is healthy for a 14 year old? But, then again theres Jax.... and I cant have him, to hold or snuggle or anything, but I want to have him that way. Does that count?

Mata said " Many argue that homosexuality is an unnatural act, something which I strongly argue against, but is the desire for a person of the same gender any different from any other desire that does not aid the procreation of the human race?"

But going for the 'does not aid the procreation of the human race' thing.... then would sex using a condom go with it? Would it be a fettish, since you're not doing it to make babies, you just want the pleasure....

Its all very confusing.... I hope this doesnt infect my dreams tonight....

To me the difference between a fetish and a turn on can be something that was possibly denied to someone in the past or thought of as going against the normal. My friend has an oral fetish, mostly because with his first sexual partner she refused to do it again. He carried this over to his next girlfriend who wasn't unwilling to do it but prefered not to. Now he finds it more exciting and pleasing than normal sex.

As for me, I don't really have a fetish. *shrug*

Make sure you set our ground rules first (i.e. what you can and can't do to each other) and that you have a really solid relationship with your partner. I do and we still had issues afterwards Nothing that couldn't have been resolved if we'd discussed ground rules beforehand

Other than that, enjoy

I have lots of fetishes. Most of which are too strange/weird to post on a family orientated board

All I'm gonna say is this B.E.

B.e.a.s.t.i.a.l.i.t.y?

ah, i was just pointing people to old threads that are relevant and so would be an interesting read, seems fair seeing as i know they're there, plus i can't be bothered to post three times on the same subject

yeh apologise Sir_Psycho_Sexy I did do a search but in the issues fourm only. Meh put it down to my complete n00bness.

Hmmm, I think my fetish is submittence, I love to submit. That and restraints, mild spankinfg and being blindfolded.
Then theres the whole baby oil thing but thats another story lol
Meh
Yours in randomness!
RG

what for? i never said you did anything wrong

Possibly he was referring to BME, Body Modification Ezine. It's a very old internet publication with some very very extreme stuff on it that would make a lot of people very squeamish. I've never braved the fingernail modification page, but I hear it's enough to turn most stomachs.

Yeah, I've seen things on there that are just...



Well, besides making me nauseous, to each his own, I suppose.

Fetishism is a practice which like most sexual perversions is confined to men, it is clearly conceptualizing or a symbol making activity. Man`s vastly greater commercial patronage of pornograhy is analogous!
An erection is a thought & the orgasm an act of imagination. The man has to will his sexual authority before the woman who is a shadow of his mother & of all women. failure & humiliation constantely wait in the wings. No woman has to prove herself a woman in the grim way a man has to prove himself a man. He has to perform or the show does not go on!

nope.

Eh? I'd post more but I have no idea what to say to that

Wow, you've really been reading too much Freud. You do know that most of his conclusions have been completely discreditted don't you?

Given that we have already had women in this thread that have specifically stated that they have fetishes, and I know many more, it's safe to say that women can have fetishes too.

Freud was very much of the opinion that women were subordinate to men inpsychological terms, and was always very keen to argue that anything occuring to them was either due to their weakness or male projection, which frankly is a load of codswallop. His theories always stated that homosexuality was perversion, and that lesbianism was all about women role-playing as men out of admiration and desire for masculine power.

Freud was always willing to say 'this will always be the case' for his theories. It makes for a very dynamic and persuasive style of writing, but I think that Jung was far closer when he spoke of the "unfathomably dark recesses" of the unconscious mind. (Carl Gustav Jung, Dreams (London: Routledge Classics, 2004), p.75) Jung accepted that there were many things that happened in the mind that would never be possible to analyse, and so accepted that no psychological rule could ever be applied to all people.

I'm actually very surprised to see that people still apply Freudian theory so literally, especially his opinions of women's sex lives. The man himself was repulsed by female sexuality so it's not surprising that he tried to argue that it doesn't really exist without a male present.

Keep guessing.

Ermm, no.

No, no, no, no. Since meeting the wife, I became an active member of the Seattle BDSM community. Went to parties, met a load of people with kinks and fetishes of all kinds. Saw a lot of things that made me think 'Blimey'. We've been making inroads into the local BDSM scene since moving back to the UK, and I notice the same thing.

The gender split is around 50/50. Of all ages. Last week I was at a do, talking to a 20 year-old girl sitting to one side of me, and a 50 year old woman on the other side.

If anything, I would hazard a guess that women are more prone to fetishism than men, mainly due to sex and arousal being more of a function of the mind and imagination for women.


Again, no, no and no. Once again, from direct involvement with kinky people on both sides of the Atlantic, it's not all male doms with a harem of female subs. Far far from it. I've met gay couples (male/male and female/female), one who is the dominant and one who is the submissive. And as for the straight couples, I'd estimate that the split is maybe 70/30 in favour of the male being the dominant.


That's a little bit of an extreme definition, though. It's rare to find a fetishist that can't get off at all without indulging the fetish (although I've met a select few). For most, the fetish is an optional extra to a sexual experience - not essential, but nice to have.

Ditto that. I've read a lot of social and, predominantly, psychological analyses that seem to have their foundations in Freudian theory. Admittedly, some of his work did form the basis of more advanced arguments or, more importantly, gave people something to work against - but most of it is massively out-dated. Yet he is still hugely over-quoted as 'evidence'.

Actually it has nothing to do with Freud, in so much, this was taken from `The Sexual Personae` by Camille Paglia. Her ideas came from Sade! Amongst others, but Freud was not on the agenda. Womens fetish`s are the `idea` that men would of had ie;learnt behaviour. Women although they love shoes & the fetish fashions etc. Do not fantise about them, but they do fantise about reactions to them. I am A dominatrix, so my world is full of fetish. Fetish is a womans friend but not her imagination in the first place!

Slightly(very) off topic and I hope you don't mind me asking.

What exactly are you? Prostitute, Dominatrix? Are there more occupations you have in the sex industry?

My guess is that she was heavily influenced by Freud, seeing as how you seemed to be spewing off Freudian theory...

And just hold on a second... by this, you are basically negating the argument that gender is a construction. That opens up another whole ballpark entirely. You are arguing that there are intrinsic differences in the way the male and female minds approach sex. While it may be true that females and males in general have different perceptions of sex, I would argue that that's a result mainly of societal programming. Therefore, women just as equally as men are completely capable of having fetishes. You're trying to force sex into a specific mold, a lot of sex which works outside of your simplistic model.



You know what? That's a load of bull. My sexual partner is *not* reflective of my mother, nor do I have an Oedipus complex. I have never sexually desired my mother. Also, an erection is a physiological response to stimuli resulting in blood flowing into the corpus cavernosum of the penis, and the orgasm is a physiological response to repeated stimulation that is not merely an act of imagination.



First of all, you're labelling fetishism as a sexual "perversion," which is arguable and is based on your own perceptions of sex and societal taboos. Secondly, I highly doubt that they are confined mostly to men, as Jonman pointed out. Thirdly, men probably do, for example, watch more pornography on average than women, but this is A) an average, and does not apply to every male, and B) is probably a result of a number of factors you are not taking into account. For example, male genitalia are external and obvious, and the sign of sexual arousal (erection) is much more obvious in men than in women. Therefore, from an early age, boys learn to understand the connection between mind and body when it comes to sex which many women do not. Secondly, society is much more forgiving of male sexuality than female, which is probably why more men than women masturbate. You're trying to simplify a subject which is just too complex to be simplified.

I'm going to have to take issue with this. "Womens fetishes are the idea that men would of had i.e. learnt behaviour"

What do you base that statement on? It seems to me (and no offense meant) utter rubbish. Women fantasise about anything and everything, just as men do. How do you propose to explain that women's fantasies are learned, but men's are...ermm... instinctive? Again, utter rubbish. Have you actually been to any fetish clubs and witnessed a range of fetishists playing (as opposed to just dancing to industrial music while wearing latex)? Are you claiming that all of the women there are somehow pretending to have their fetishes, because they think that that will please the men?

*shakes head*

I'd like to direct you to a couple of books that deal very openly with some of these issues. 'Different Loving', by William Brame, 'SM101' by Jay Wiseman, and most importantly, 'The New Topping Book' and 'The New Bottoming Book' by Dossie Easton & Janet W. Hardy, who are both *gasp* women! In your line of work, the last two ought to be compulsory reading anyway.

All of the above books contain many many examples of people frankly discussing their kinks and fetishes. My guess is that you'll find it illuminating.

and Hold The Phone....the book you're quoting is based on Sade!? Well respected opinon there then, eh

You could also look at Nancy Friday, who's compiled at least two books of women's sexual fantasies - all of which are as kinky/fetishistic/imaginative/and clichéd as men's.

Just a quick note. Saying you are a dominatrix doesn't mean that you have to be a sex worker. It could just be a chosen self-identity, although I have to say, it must be rather odd to be in such a role but not believe internally that any of the fetishes come from yourself. This would suggest that there is more than personal interest at stake here.

A dominatrix in a mutual relationship with another person will usually have agreed on a range of activities that satisfy the desires of both parties. Even though the top is in control it doesn't mean that they are not suposed to be having fun as well!

As I said before, from a bisexual perspective, all monosexual people have a fetish. In a cultural domain a fetish is merely something considered out of the ordinary, and this has changed radically in the last 50 years. What is considered normal today (for example, women having sex-toy parties) would have been intensely sexually transgressive to previous generations. The desires of women have always been there, they've just been repressed by people such as Freud who have tried to explain them away.

I am a Prostitute or a Whore, whatever you like to call a sex industry worker, but I `specialise` in Domination!

I am also a writer & artist. Especially now in my life, as the ye4ars have past by, my skills have accumulated.

Generally I can people who work in the sex industry 'people who work in the sex industry'. Most other terms seem to have so many connotations that it is difficult to be certain of how others will interpret them, and this rather long-winded way of saying it seems to be as unevocative as I can manage. It's difficult to find a term that encompasses both those who have been addicted to cocaine by their pimp as well as those who have chosen of their own free will to sell sexual acts.

Anyway, trying to get back vaguely onto topic, do you really believe that women have no fetishes? In your profession it is in your occupational interests to fulfil male fantasies, but I find it impossible to believe that neither you nor anyone else female in the dominatrix line of work has any private fetishes. Such a belief strikes me as being pretty insulting to the imagination of women!

I'm not much for fetishes, unless you include tits and biting, which are fun. I don't know if this is one, but I like being pounced on, in a sexual manner that is. The schoolgirl thing is kinda sexy, not to sound so cliché.

Lets firstly define the word `fetish` & see what the dictionary defines it as Mata.
`A thing abnormally stimulating or attracting sexual desire,`
`An inanimate object, worshipped,`
`A thing evoking irrational devotion or respect.`

Your first paragraph Mata, I just could`nt work out what you were saying, I`m sorry to say.

Women do have fantasies, but not fetishes! Men have fetishes, because they need them! They need to symbolise, as their genitals too are a symbol! A symbol of their ability, their manhood. They have to prove, to get erect! Women don`t have to do that, you know that don`t you?

Women will go along with fetishes, as a means of getting what they want. If this does`nt happen, than as i have said before, the show does`nt go on!
This is`nt insulting to women, you imagine it may be, because you cannot think of how it could`nt be. So it could be said that the imagination of women is well in tact.
They can and are the creation of those symbols! They are the ones who are worshipped. How many men do you know who make a living from the same sexual ideology as women. Unless they are transgendered? Men would like to think they could or would if....... but, they never do, nor can make a living from sex like women can! Women are the guides to a sexual world, they are not the travellers! Not in the sense that men are. Now of all what I am saying, I am not anti anything. I love men/women/people & feel that we must celebrate our differences & not think that either one is lacking because we are different.
There is always the few that are different because of amounts of female/male ratio genes that run round in their bodies, but on the whole, no women do not have fetishes.

And Righteous, tell em more about your school-girl fetish? Why do you think you have that particular one? Have you ever thought about it, or do you just accept it unquestioningly?

*pulls hair out*

*joins in pull out what little hair Jonman has*

Seriously! What?! I have fetishes. You can't say I don't have. I should know. Women have to get aroused just as much as men. Just because we don't have a massive object attached to us that becomes hard doesn't mean there aren't bits of us that get 'engorged' when arosed (i.e. the Clitoris for those of you that have no idea about female anatomy). Perhaps I've completely misunderstood you?

*watches Jon go at his shaved head with tweezers*


Now there is a key phrase 'what they want'. Women have desires too, or 'want's as you term them. At what point does a 'want' become a fetish?

Back to the dictionary:
a form of sexual desire in which gratification is linked to an abnormal degree to a particular object, item of clothing, part of the body etc.

What defines a 'want' as abnormal? What is normal?

You can easily argue that women wearing schoolgirl outfits are a 'normal' desire, they are certainly popular in modern culture, and they are a symbol of youth, virility, and a younger woman is more likely to survive childbirth. This technically makes it a natural desire, meaning that it is no longer a fetish. Rubber has a texture similar to vaginal skin, so if a man wishes to be enclosed in rubber then surely this is just an extension of a natural desire?

So if all desires can be rationalised when taken to the level of symbology, as you seem very keen to do, then they are all extensions of natural, or 'normal' deisres. Returning then to that definition, the key point has to be the linkage to an 'abnormal degree'.

In essence you are arguing that 'normal' women are incapable of desiring sexual gratification from anything to an 'abnormal degree'. I think that this is offensive to women in two ways:

It suggests that women are incapable of extreme desires for sexual acts.

You state that women who do have fetishes are less female than those who do not because of their genetics!

Pain releases endorphines in both men and women's brains, that's a simple fact. I really don't see how your argument can be applied to the reality of the world. Essentially you are saying that any real woman, who does not have a mix of male genes (!!!), cannot have her own strong sexual desires and if they say they do they are really kidding themselves because it is all just a projection of male fantasies?

What a load of tosh!

If it weren't for the fact that your argument is supported by purely theoretical constructs that do not stand comparison to reality, it still does not explain the existence of lesbian S&M. If women cannot have fetishes, then why would one tie another up for sexual pleasure? And if you are going to argue that this doesn't happen then there are a great deal of lesbians that you really haven't met.

Oh, and one last thing, the vagina is just as powerful a symbol in human history as the phallus. Call it the void, the vagina dentata, the universal womb, the place of creation, the link between humanity and infinity, the earth mother... It's all there.

Not to mention to Yoni and all the ancient symbolism associated with it. That, I might add, men (not unlike Freud) have been trying to subdue since the adoption of the Christianity but that's a whole other religious argument that I really don't want to go into right now

I wouldn't call it a fetish. I'll just be out and see a chick with the shirt and the skirt and be oddly attracted. Case in point: I went to an arcade with my brother once and the House of Dead III machine was right up against the side of the DDR machine. At the DDR machine, there were these pair of hot foxes with the collared shirts and the plaid skirts. For a few seconds, I stared hardcore and then went back to killing zombies. I dunno. I see the school girl thing as similar to how some chicks are attracted to guys with facial hair or tats. I'd be attracted regardless.

I agree with your definitions be cause i and I know many of my friends are into bondage. Whips, chains, handcuffs, belts, rope.. etc. I also love biting and girl on girl action. I am bisexual. Not a "fad" as I read somewhere earlier your either bi-curious, bi, homosexual, or just straight. but if your bisexual you get aroused by seeing either sex. Male or female if you prefer male over female you arent bi your bi curious many people get very confused with bi and bi curious... or you could be straight and just experimenting with ideas in your mind. You can Judge someone think their hot sexy etc and not be bi curious just judgemental and open minded. You have to be aroused by both sexes no matter the time or if you dating a male or female. If you stick to one sex you arent bi. Anyway I'm done ranting just had to make the point of clarification. Fate

Both! I am a professional Dominatrix!

Destiny: English - learn it.

As is, your views are rather very skewed. Clarify and come back later.

Bisexuality is not a fetish, thank you. It's just plain fun.

I seriously believe that's poop.

The phrase 'bi-curious' suggests that someone's just... um... curious, like "ooh, I wonder what that's like, I'd give it a go, but probably just the once". Whereas bisexuality is finding both attractive. Does it matter what level of attraction? If you'd still sleep with either on a regular basis - if you find both attractive and you'd happily sleep with either, but one is slightly more attractive than the other - why does that make you less of a bisexual? Maketh no sense to me.

I know what I *mean* to say but I'm doing an awful job of explaining. But I suppose it's a bit like saying you're less straight because you fancy men with beards more that you fancy men without.

So, let me get this straight. Fallen Destiny claims that unless you're exactly 50/50 split, you're not bisexual? So does that mean that every bisexual needs to have slept with the same amount of men as women? Otherwise they're just bi-curious?

Sorry, that's just unrealistic. It's my belief that virtually every bisexual will have bias towards one gender or the other, whether it's 55-45, or even 10-90.

The way that I understand the differance between a person who is bisexual, and a person who is bi-curious is:
Bisexual: a person who is wiling to have a romantic and sexual relationship with either a male or female.

Bi-curious: a person who is willing to have a sexual relatioinship with either a male or female, but cannot fathom entering into a romantic relationship with one particular gender.

What, do you think?




Ah, but Jonman, what if I as a 'bisexual', on the Kinsley scale veer towards men, but have slept with more women? I'm confuzzed! What am I?

bi-confuzzled.

I've replied to this discussion in the existing bisexuality thread

http://www.matazone.co.uk/forums/index.php...ndpost&p=250094

Alright, back on topic what's the strangest fetish you've heard about?

(And yes, I know strangeness is a matter of perspective, but just ride with it, okay?)

I have a full on fetish about power tools. Not just looking at them but * ahem* playing with them in the safest way I can! I also have a biiiiig calliper (leg brace) fetish. I'm dying to get myself a pair but they are really pricey. Of course I could go crash a car at high speed, shatter my legs and get em for free

Maybe vorephilia - a vorephile is aroused by consumption, usually imagining himself (from what I've seen they are usually male) being consumed or simulating said consumption. Shorthand: the thought of being eaten turns you on