If it isn't a major religion, but you got some kinda afterlife/ higher life form type belief, what is it? How's it work, and why do you think you believe in it?

Tyring to get at the 'if you do believe in summit along those lines what is it'? As opposed to wheather or not you hold such beliefs. But if you want to talk about the later, than go for it.

Cand had a related thread going a while ago, which can be found here.

Honestly I'm not sure what I believe in now.

But I use to have this belief....

We're here to get to a higher level, but its not like the caste system, you acctually go to a different place instead of getting a different rank. And you're point now is to prove who you are and what you can do so you can go to a different place with people that dont always annoy you to death. Yup. It didnt really have a god or anything, just a different place to go to and its your choice where you get to go depending on what you do in this life.

So what's the regulating system, then? How do souls get sorted?

Don't mean to be confrontational, I'm just curious

*grin* Good qustion! You tell me

I mean honestly, it was just an idea and I came up with it when I was about 12 or 13, and I never really thought about having some sort of .... regulating system.... so its up to you guys *shrug* I dont much believe in it anymore.... I use to and it kept me going, right now I'm in a very very numb sortah.... period of time.... yup.... *totally lost vocabulary bank*

I guess it's easiest to rationalise life as a sort of test...it just seems so short and brutal otherwise, and you wonder what the point is. Test your mettle, your quality, wotnot. Sort of like was K!77y was saying, I think. Questions of the afterlife always seem to loop around for me to questions about consciousness and how our mind--spirit--whatever-- came to be trapped inside this frail colonies of cooperative cells. But at any rate. If earth's just a testing ground, well, that's rather a depressing thought, but somehow it's worse to think that we're simply wisps of consciousness that happen, by some chance, to occur in certain blobs of atoms and then dissappear with just as much carelessness.

There's something awfully human-centric (understandably) about the way we portray a god, like a massive, all-powerful human; and often with all our fickless, cruelty, and other worthy qualities. I'm not sure about that. But I do feel like there's something deliberate in the the universe, some sort of spirit or wholeness. Or maybe I've been reading too much on trancendentalism lately. Who knows.

Argh! Here goes...

I used to be Pagan. I'd now happily call myself pseudo-Pagan, for the following reasons:

For me, God cannot exist. Simply because you do not find out about God's existance until you die - in other words, until you no longer exist. I cannot see how something can exist in non-existance, to out it simply.

I may be wrong. I'll happily admit that - but in the meantime, I'll believe it when I see it.

But I think nature is the closest thing we get to God, in omnipotence, creation and destruction. Therefore, for me, nature is something to be respected, loved. etc., - in a Pagan sense.

In terms of the afterlife:

I come back to the God-in-non-existance thing.

So. God doesn't exist (theoretically) until you stop existing (death). I don't think something can exist in your own non-existance so for me that negates any idea of heaven and hell. In a way.

Instead, I believe it's what you make of it. You brain lives on, for a little while, after your body gives in. In that time, I believe your brain enters a dream-state - time has no effect (like in dreams), so your mind makes it's own world. In such cases, it creates your own idea of the after-life - albeit heaven or hell or reincarnation or whatever.

I find this a very libertating idea - it's like a 'create your own afterlife' thing, where no-one is right or wrong. But I'm happy to accept I'm an idealist, or wrong. I'll just see what happens, eh?

It doesn't show *that* much.

The idea of an afterlife is nice and all, but I honestly can't bring myself to believe it, despite being raised that way. I've pretty much decided to be confused about the whole matter - no one can prove the existence or non-existence of gods anyway. I'm actually more comfortable believing there isn't a higher deity given the problems in the world. As for what happens after you die... I used to just think of it as you die and you're dead, but that seems sort of bleak. I actually like the idea of returning to a universal force, like brahmin. I'm still a little shaky in my beliefs though, and I've gone through quite a spectrum.

I'm just hoping it isn't "Your afterlife as you thought it was going to be" if there are possibilites of heaven.

You're born. You shag, eat and poo for a few years. Then you die. Then you rot.

Game Over. There is no cosmic Insert Coin to Continue.

There's just too many contradictions, along with utter lack of anything even approaching evidence for me to put faith in any kind of a 'higher power'.

Plus I watched a Bill Hicks DVD the other night, which totally reaffirmed my atheism.

My belief sounds awful but I believe it. I believe that following death power is distributed according to how much a higher power trusts you to use it. The ones who can be trusted with ultimate power will be deities and the cosmos will dance to their every thought.

I have muddled my way through life kinda nomadic in my beliefs (and in my lifestyle, as well. No surprise there), but one particular theme has always run back to me. I beliefe in several forces existing and flowing through everything. Not necessarily "gods" but spiritual powers. They represent common bonds between everything. One infuses life, one sustains it, one transfers it, one reinforces, and one takes it away. It is a continuous cycle. Those who tap into its essence and embrace it join it once they pass on.

Everyone and everything has unique combinations of each and can change their nature through choice or by circumstances. Through practice one can tap into these streams and bring tangible effects into being; risks not withstanding, of course.

I grew up being molded into a christian mold which I was good at feigning, but always knew "the truth" deep inside me. After spending many months with a Native American shaman, they were reinforced and became an inseperable part of me. I have had years to poke, prod, and perfect my spiritual findings. I have made a lot of headway that could only be found through years of research and devotion.

I was raised into the Church of England, but renounced it not long after leaving my church school. I came to realise that none of it made any sense, to me at least. Half-truths, assumptions, faulty logic, too much communial wine, and blatant political agendering.

I dont think we are capable of knowing anything that completely transcends emperical evidence (though I'm sceptical of that. I'm so Hume's bitch.)and scientific theory (though I'd question if that was knowledge). Its just all guess work, blind hope, and superstition. You can probably guess that I won't be celebrating Christmas

I'm not ruling out that theres something there, after all how can I know? You can't exactly disprove something that you know nothing about.

My only belief now is that I can only know after I die, so why struggle to guess for the moment? For the most part we long for a caring and safe salvation after we die. Or a fatherly god to save us from the follies of the past. Regardless of mountains of reasoning to the contrary.

I'd like to think theres another 'life' I can continue afterwards though, if for no other reason than to carry on learning and experiencing new things. Though in reality you probably just wont exist to realise thats you are in the after. Its probably slightly egotistical to think we are more than a simple biological system.

So in short, I guess I'm agnostic. But seriously leaning towards atheism.
Basicaly, sceptical of every damned thing. And its great.

Hmmm... that was a lot of writing to say basically nothing.

Well, you summarised fairly effectively my beliefs, Calantyr. I just cannot find a good reason to believe in any sort of religion. I have recently interviewed a number of my religious friends and acquaintances and found no reason for their beliefs. In the end, people believe what they want to believe because they feel like believing it, and nothing can change their minds or mine.

Jonman, you said it pretty well; I don't really need to repeat it (cheers for saving me some time ).

I consider myself to be Catholic... (yes, I worship Cathol).

So -

I believe in God... an omnipresent deity that created everything.

I also believe that: you are born, you live, you die... but if you:

a. led a good life - then you go to heaven.
b. led a not so good life - then you go to purgatory until you're ready for heaven.
c. led a bad life - then you go to hell.

or something like that.

Actually, I don't know the first darn-diddli-do thing-diddli-dee about the afterlife.

The Bible has various holes in it, and gives guidance rather than certainty (please note that this is merely my interpretation and shouldn't be taken as gospel)... so there isn't much to go on rather than trying to be a good person as Christ would want me to be.

More personal beliefs:

- If you are a good person you go to heaven, no matter what religion (including atheists), so Mel Gibson can say what he likes about the Jews, but he is completely wrong... so wrong in fact - he has crossed the line into herecy.
- The Jews didn't kill Jesus... a small group of the Pharises' supporters petitioned the Romans to kill Jesus - WHO WAS HIMSELF A JEWISH RABBI...
- Pigeons can explode if fed baking soda.
- The politiking in the Church is wholly immoral, and as it is usually carried out by the far right within our faith - they too are wholly immoral.
- The corruption of the upper echilons of the Vatican can be likened unto the money-lenders in the temple (ie a bad thing).
- Politics and Church must be kept utterly seperate, secularism is very important in the governing of the people, but freedom of religion should be enjoyed by all...
- except where religion is forced on people (I am NOT a fan of evangelism within any religion that goes further than self-promotion).

There is more, but I'm wandering off topic here... so that's what I think.

Merry Xmas by the way.

ok.. my turn.. I don't believe in any of the faiths really.. and have my issues with organised religion. But i do believe in something.
This may be a little long winded sounding, but bare with me..
I am fascinated by physics, both on a shallow fascination level.. and the more deep "this is how the universe works". Ironically science actually made me believe in something more than making me believe in nothing.
Through everything I've learned studying physics I've noticed how weird the universe is.

No matter which of the proven or unproven theories you believe the universe seems to make no sense. I mean lets take that big bang theory thing.. if you choose to believe that.. then at some point there was nothing.. there was forever nothing.. and then all of the sudden all this stuff happened everything came into existence for this brief period activity.. and if what recent evidence suggests is true.. there will be nothing forever more after that. Meaning that all of everything that exists now is this little pocket activity is all that ever will be, for all of eternity.

On the other hand if you don't believe that theory and believe the universe has been around forever and will forever more exist.. then for all of eternity, and forever more, everything exists to just sustain itself. It wasn't placed here.. it just well "is" and forever more will just exist. Which basically goes against the nature of everything else. (also this theory is goes against all the evidence).

My point is that it just got me thinking that it makes no sense that everything is in it's nature inert.. that it just exists.. and came out of no where for all eternity.
Now I don't believe in a godly power that created the universe in the sense that any major religion teaches it. But it's almost as if there's some underlying "force" behind all the unfilled holes of the universe.. if you wanna call that force god, then go shoot. I don't like to think of this thing or whatever something that has any bias in towards anything.. like praying for it for world peace is pointless. I also believe that it doesn't exist outside the realms of explainable science.. just that we don't comprehend it.

But I'd like to think our soul comes from, and goes back to that when we die.. since to me it's the only possible way to explain, why it is a random bunch of atoms and electrons when bunched together suddenly becomes self aware.. it's another one of those "what's the point of that?" things in my little logical mind.
For me it answers a lot of questions.. yes it's far fetched.. but to me it makes perfect sense.

*shows off his geek roots*

I don't believe in heaven, hell, afterlife of any sort or any kind of deity. I think people use religion as a way of justifying their actions, for strength, for power. I think that people need to believe that there is some purpose in life and that they will never truly die so they do not in turn fear death. I do believe in a sort of karma. I think that if you help people out when they need it by being nice or charitable and the like that people will do the same in return for you. Simple stuff like if you let a person cross the street when you're driving along, maybe when you are trying to cross the street later someone else will let you go across. I do completely agree with Jonman, we live, procreate, masticate, deficate, and die. I think that is a pretty noble existance and I do not need a religion to give me more to life than that. We are animals too. But people also have emotion and that is why I think it is important to do good for other people so you can in turn enjoy your life when you are not having sex or having something to eat, although those are important things too.

My theory is quite simple. It may have tons of holes in it but here we go...

Faith is a good thing. Religion is a bad thing as it causes too much pain and death in this world.

Jesus was a cool dude who had funky ideas but he was just that. A dude. NOT the son of God or anything like that. I feel that his teachings are extremely cool and if listened to would probably do a lot of good. But they would also destroy most governments because humans can't reat each other as equals. Just doesn't work.

I feel that paganism and other religions have more in common than they think. Monotheistic religions just give all the little bits that the ancient religions worshipped one singular name- God/ Allah/ Jehovah (OK so maybe not one singular name!)

Faith is where true understanding begins. Myself personally I believe that there is something out there after death. Do I believe in a bloke in a toga and sandals sitting on a cloud deciding who should get a funky set of wings or not? Nope. I believe in second chances so maybe the idea of reincarnation has more meaning for me than most other ideas. I think that heaven would be bloomin' boring without at least some arguments. Happiness is relative so unless everyone spends eternity in their own little bubble someone would always be unhappy...

OK I've just read this post and it seems a little bit unconnected and away with the faeires and really doesn't say much about my belief system. But then again maybe it does. And it's definitely not simple!

The problem was Jesus can't be taken as a 'good teacher'. He openly claimed he was God and had the temerity to go around telling people they were forgiven when the crime was against another. He was either who he claims to be or he was insane on the level of a man who claims he is a chicken.

Muhammed was the same way. Either he was a prophet or he was a total schizo who saw things and was altering the world to suit his delusions.

Judaism, same thing applied to Moses (or Abraham if you prefer).

Sikhism, Hinduism, Taoism, and Jainism claim little to no historical intervention by God or the Gods so it is a belief without any historical facts to check on (a weakness and a strength).

Buddhism (some sects) rests it's case on the Buddha discovering what he said he discovered.

Zoroastrianism is another 'revealed' religion and it's founder was either a quack or saw what he claimed to see.

The more I've studied the differences between religion the more I'm surprised there haven't been even more wars in the name of religion. In the age of tolerance (a good thing) we tend to overlook the rational truth (a bad thing). They can't all be right. Every religion at it's founding (especially revealed religion) came as the only word of god. Virtually every christian sect before the twentieth century believed it correct and the others to all be false to some degree or another. Ecumenicalism is a recent invention that is preposterous if applied to theology (it's rational to combine in the interests of charity work and common goals in regards to society and/or politics). Every new religion when it came forth today would be thought of as narrow-minded, exclusionary, and bigoted.

I'm all for the free expression and discussion of ideas but to patronizingly claim that two opposing and contradictory views can both be true because people believe them cheapens religion and cheapens spirituality.

I believe that IF there is a higher place/being/whatever. It is not faithfully represented in any major religion. Not entirely sure whether that makes me agnostic or atheist....

I believe i have delusions of grandeuir, and that i worship myself...no, seriously. I'm not just saying that to be sarcastic...
like, whenever i'm passing these large glass doors in my kitchen, i get this sharp panic attack, like something is going to break them open and attack me. i wave my hand, index and middle fingers pointing outwards, and sort of 'dismiss' the evilness that lurks behind there.
when the car doesn't stop quickly enough when there's a red or it's raining, i take my index and my middle fingers, press them onto my lips, and i 'make the car stop'
I always have panic attacks by that door, like my body screams, 'run, run, run!' right when i pass them...it's a terror to me, really o_o;
when i leave the kitchen, i jet into my room and shut the door...
i guess i've always been scared of them, ever since i was a little kid, but...well...
that's a bit off topic.
so, am i crazy? am i the only one who can 'dismiss' the fears by 'blessing' away the evil?
I'm frigging strange.

Not strange, just cautious. I have rituals I use to ward away evil. Some are religous in nature. Some seem like superstitions but are in fact mental exercises to keep my mind from focussing on darkness and/or dark spirits whether they inhabit a body or not.

I'm not quite sure your wonderful appraisal does Jesus any justice. Yes he can be taken as a good teacher - IF you think his teachings are correct / have some beneficial relevence to you. His claim to be God, and his forgiveness of sins (which I can't seem to recall being for crimes committed against anyone else) - really don't detract from his theological/rabbinical teachings. They may lessen his credibility in the eyes of non-believers, but his teachings should be judged on their own merit. I suppose my point is - listen to the message, and ignore the hype if you so choose, then make your mind up if you think Jesus' teachings are good or bad.


Fair enough... either they were prophets - or they weren't. Well stated.


I was under the impression that Hinduism is repleat with examples of key events throughout India's history, where devine intervention has swayed mankind's progress in one direction or another. Whether you accept the historical record or not - is neither here nor there, in many cases they're as accurate accounts as some of those found in the bible (which is full of holes).

Sikhism and Jainism are revealled religions, so your statement is fair enough, though perhaps Islam should then also fall into this category? Allah had a hand in supporting Islam, though in no way as direct an influence as with Judaism (not splitting the sea in half) or as with Christianity where God somehow manifested himself in human form as Jesus.

Taoism (from my own limited understanding) appears to be less about supreme deities, and more to do with a philosphical and ethical understanding of life and how to lead it. There are certainly elements of nature worship, but the underlieing theme seems to be more about the notion of the Dao as the origin of all creation and the force that causes everything to occur. Taoism has more to do with following a path so yes, historically God(s) hasn't interviened on behalf of furthering the Taoist cause.


A bit like Islam, Sikhism, Jainism, and to an extent Christianity.


Again, like with every other revealed religion: either you beleive the messenger or you don't. Though in this case, it is my understanding that Zarathushtra (the founder) was born to the role of prophet (a bit like Jesus) so was preaching what God had intended him to - not what he claimed to see.


Perhaps such study should also take into account:

1) That not every religion has gone through a (formal) period of preaching violence towards non-believers (whereby every follower is urged towards violence).

2) Not that many religions have come into contact with each other until fairly recently (in terms of global history - and those who have contacted others of different religions are usually a minority of the overall religious population).

3) A key element to many religions is peace and harmony. Whether or not you like or mix with your non-believer neighbours, most world religions have a core message of not harming others... perhaps this key element is lost on you as your research has shown you how easily religions can and have been perverted for political and social advantage - sometimes leading to war and persecution.

4) If you actually look at the impact many religions have had, you also see that they've been an imensely important tool in maintaining social cohesion and stability. Most religions introduce this and many have even stiffled conflict on a local and national level (and many continue to do so even today).


I'm not quite sure I get what you're saying here Xeno. You mention the trend to overlook rational truth - fair enough, then discuss that religions can't all be right. Just for my understanding are you stating this as a truth that is being overlooked? Most religions would agree with you that they can't all be right. Individual faiths would suggest that it is they that are correct, and everyone else that isn't. This in itself shouldn't deminish a religion. If you don't beleive what is being preached then you should discard the message... just because it claims exclusivity doesn't mean it's automatically and inherently flawed.


Is this really what Ecumenicalism / Ecumenicism is about though? I though it was more to do with looking for the similarities in religion rather than blindly accepting the contradictions? One definition explains it as the promoting of cooperation and better understanding among different religious denominations; aimed at universal Christian unity. On this level it is about healling the rifts and schisms between the multitude of Christian faiths by focusing on the commonality (we all worship the same God, and all follow Jesus' teachings) and trying to overcome the differences (Latin Mass or local language Mass, who is Pope, what can a Priest do and what should a Priest do... etc). This isn't about patronisingly claiming that two opposing and contradictory views can both be true... this is about reforming these contradictions to reunite the faiths.

As far as Ecumenicalism between Christianity and other faiths - again I don't see this as necessarily accepting contradictions. The way I look at it is that there are many paths to the same goal, and some are longer and others shorter, some are easier and some are harder... but they all end up in the same place (the grave and perhaps an afterlife). This doesn't mean giving up your individual faith, nor does it mean accepting the contradictions. It does mean accepting that the differences exist, but that these don't mean we can't worship the same god (as with Islam and Christianity), or pray for the same outcome (as - for example - I did with many people from different faiths all over the world - when I prayed for an end to the conflict in Iraq).

I can't see how tolerance of the way in which others worship - cheapens religion or spitiruality. So long as you continue to believe in your faith, then how does it cheapen my Christianity to have attended a conference on sprituality at a Mosque? How is my spirituality cheapened because I hope that if a Jew or Hindu is a good person that they will enter paradise? I may not agree with their beliefs as I suspect they won't agree with mine, but when we pray for the same outcome that strenghtens not cheapens our faiths.

Hmm. I'm going to try and explain my belife as clearly as I can. So here goes...

I belive in reincarnation. I believe in multi dimensions. I belive in the total and absolute universal state of equilibrium.

Time. I believe that the past, present and future are concepts that once I have moved on from this life will no longer be tools I will need to understand this life that I am living. That is I, Frogg am not spiritualy sophisiticateed enough to make sense of all that is around me/ that is me/ that is and live with out needing time as a dimension to be able to do so. It's not just about being able to understand the 'world' around me with time, but about me not having the 'brains' to cope with existing without time, at this point (Frogg's 'life') in my spiritual process. In a way time will always exist, but where I end up will be in a place where all times, past, present and future are distinguishable, but all one. I hope this makes sense. It's a bit like every single moment existing forever, but not at the same time. But with out time, because there is no time and therefore all moments exist at once.

I'm not saying time doesn't exist, because I believe that it does, it's just that it can be removed, or hmm, not used in it's conventional sense, of being past present future. Or better explanation: All of time exists all at once (simultaneously), but this once is eternity, therefore time as we understand it doesnt exist apart from when we need it, so that we can exist ourselves.


Reincarnation. I don't think I'm using the word quite right, but here goes: I belive that I will 'live' every single life that has ever been and will ever be. From ameobs to privet to my mother's and fella's spirit/ soul/ conscience/ life, not just the humans I know IRL either, but you who are reading this post, unborn children, feotus'. And not just in this dimension, in all dimensions (more about that later). I believe that my 'spirit' will need to have experianced every experiance ever. Further, not just the experiances of living organisms, but of each and every singular electron, nucleaus and proton. Of each super-srting, of each atom, each chemical chain, each ray of light, sound wave, rock, and tide. Seperate conciousness/souls for each being, but ones that equally exist in everything. Everything being every time, every alternate dimension as well as every objecty kinda thing.


Equilibrium. I believe that _everything_ balances out. 'Good' deeds vs 'bad' ones. Erm, everything. For everything that is there is an equal opposite either in this 'world' (dimension), other 'worlds', other times in this 'world', other times in the other dimensions. Across all if that makes sense. It's like all the 'good' I do in this life will be balanced out by the bad I do in this life, and all the other 'lives' I ever 'live'. All the 'good/ bad' isn't just what I judge to be good or bad, but also judged by the Collective Conscience (more on that later). Equal and opposite actions / reactions.


Multi alternate dimensions. One for everything ever that could happen/ has happedned/ is happening. Every possible reality from a single water drop falling in a slightly different way, to the entire rules of physics being different. Every time you read a book about a fantasy world, somewhere/time/universe that exists.


Collective Conscience. I believe I have to experiance every single experiance there is (hence the multi alternate dimensions and the simultanious experiance in each of these, from every' things' perspective). The Frogg who's typing this, when she dies will be reincarnated untill 'she' has experianced every single experiance/ reality/ possibility. Only once she has will she be able to join the collective conscience but in a way will already be a part of it.
An individual conscience is the manifeststion of all the erm, 'combing' parts of a collective conscience. It is both seperate from, and an undistingushable part of the collective conscience. The collective conscience is all of us, all of our experiances that make a total thing, so incredibly total and complete, that it could be called the 'One'.

I believe that when I join the collective conscience the sum total of all my experiances will balance out eachother. I will be in a state of equilibrium I believe that we 'need' to experiance every experiance there is because this will be how we become enlightened. And that it is in this state of enlightenment how we will be able to exist wihtout time.



I'm now very, very sleepy. There is more to write, clarifications etc but I got's to get some zzzz's.

Thanks to everyone who has poseted in here, very interesting to read what other believe.

*yawns*

Hinduism claims a few miracles that changed India's history but most were not of the 'faith breaking' type. In other words, the religion can not be said to be false if they were disproven.

Sorry, I use 'revealed' religion in a different sense than you're thinking. I've understood it always as referring to religions started by claiming direct revelation usually through physical intervention (i.e. angels, seeing things) as opposed to the spiritual reception of them (deep meditation, etc.)

What I meant when I said I was surprised there weren't more wars I meant I was surprised at the lack of violent conversion or extermination attempts in some religions and the lack of more of them in the rest.

While peace is a focus in most religions they also serve as the ultimate justifier and salve to the conscience. I also found that the profoundly religious are either the best or the worst people on Earth with very few in the middle.

It isn't cheapened by going to the Mosque (I've done that several times and am friends with several of them, my friend kept going and they taught him Arabic). It's cheapened by the conceptions of many that there are a thousand different roads to the happy afterlife and that the choice is a personal one that is a matter of choosing what you like rather than a serious choice that may cost you. I think if religion wants to stay relevant it has to teach people this.

Well actually as intolerent as we like to believe our ancestors were, they were no more or less tolerant than we are now. I mean sure.. there was a time in england where being a catholic openly earned you being burned.

However there was a time.. a quite long period before england basically took over india. That India and england were inseperable allies. Europeons would visit the country and vice versa indians visit Europe. The links became so strong that people walked around in hybridised indian/europeon clothing. Europeons took indian wives.. etc etc.. that lasted for quite some time aswell, and ended after England eventually took total claim of india and there are many such examples of times of great tolerence that put even us modern peoples to shame.

Anyways.. this isn't a thread for historical debate.. so I'll get back on track.
Yeah most of the major religions believe themselves right and the others wrong, but that's not a problem with the faiths, that's a problem of the people that preach them. None of the faiths teach intolrence in their religious txts. Infact if I remember rightly, christianity says that muslims, jewish, and even pagans that live in honour will go to heaven. It's just people choose to not remember this when they want to feel great about what they themselves believe, and thus.. good old intolerence is born.

This intolerence is even more absurd when you take into consideration that with religions like christianity, have been hybridised with a lot of the religions they are intolerent to in the first place. Take easter for example easter. While it's set up to celebrate the rebirth of christ. That actual name "easter" is taken from paganism, as is the easter bunny. Then there's christmas, and it's original date of celebration is the 7th of January. We celebrate on the 25th of december because....? That brings it closer to the pagan mid winter solstice.
Then there's the cross, while it's origins are indeed the sign that christ was cruxified on. It was not the original symbol of christianity. There was no original symbol of christianity. It became a symbol when it was decided in europe long ago that to indoctrinate more pagans into the faith they'd give them a symbol to use as a focus in their worship.

But here we are today, people insulting faiths that they once adapted their own religion to accomadate.

I see the earlier point made, that faith is great but that religion itself "can" create issues, and history shows that many times. I'd say that my earlier in this thread stated beliefs are quite similar to that if I think about it. I do believe in things that make sense to me, that fit with what I feel. I don't feel the need to preach what I feel to people, nor do I feel people that don't feel the same way as me are stupid. That's why this threads kinda cool.. where we can sit down and curiously pick each others brains about what all our ideas are on things.

Edit
*Just like to add before I get flamed.. not every christian is intolerent.. one of my best friends is probably one of the most tolerent people I know and is a christian.. I'm talking about the militant people*

Witless, a Ukranian friend of mine celebrates Christmas on the 6th of January.

Coptic Christians in Egypt still celebrate Christmas in January. They are sort of looked down on by the more prevailant Christian groups, even though they are probably much closer to whatever the original faith was. As far as I know, they have changed very little since before the East Roman (Byzantine) Empire.


I think I probably wouldn't subscribe to any particular religion even if I did believe in God or some other gods. Religious structure just seems to get in the way of faith. At any moment it can change, and you are expected to change with it.

Just my tuppence. And yes, discussions like this are good. As long as no one thrusts their ideas down anothers throat it can be rather insightful.

I still go to church every Sunday and sometimes I wonder why I'm there, and what I believe, and exactly how much of it is Calvanist Christian. In the end the conclusion I generally come to is that no matter how much I believe or don't believe in terms of a God that demands to be worshipped and, going farther back, offered sacrifices, or a man being said God's son, the principles of Christianity are still good ones. I'm not about to become a by-the-book fundy or join Bush in his holy wars, but the lessons of peace, simplicity, and forgiveness are pretty harmonious in a lot of ways with Buddhism and whatever else I've absorbed into my faith. Strip off the details, and a lot of religions are based on many of the same ideals. It doesn't hurt to follow them, and it never hurts to learn them.

What can I say? I'm a humanist. I believe in the human soul and the incredible power inside of it. I believe in the thought that God is just as much inside the heart, body, mind, and soul as he is omnipresent and that he draws strength from that. I believe that I could talk to God, not being an equal, but having a measurable difference - his being a college grad student to my being a a seventh or eighth grader. See what I mean? He's advanced, but with hard work, I could even get there too. And that goes for everyone. I believe in almost all of the Ten Commandments and the Four Noble Truths. I also believe in sexuality and sensuality, the fact that God isn't black or white or shades of grey. He's blue, he's purple, he's red, green, yellow, and every other color, and I'd wager some other colors that don't exist. Dig? I believe that Jesus and Buddha would like to have coffee together and I believe that the denominations of any and all churches is foolish. Each religion should have a blanket church and accept that others have different interpretations. I believe that the Catholic church is wrong and that Mary and the Saints aren't as holy as the y make them out to be and that the ornamentation is unnecessary. Music, love, and beauty are as powerful as God and moreover are God. Heaven is pure energy.

Read my book, baby. *Copies of it are available on request, though it's no where near done yet)

I Don't recall whether I posted this already, or scrapped it at the last second as I do so many of my posts of late (wondering whether the post in question would be considered spam or not). I did go through the first & last few pages of that thread by cand looking for it but I couldn't find it. So just in case I didn't I will now

I believe that if any neural energy is released from a dying/dead organism it is incorporated into the nearest developing lifeform. Now whether that lifeform can use the neural energy or not doesn't matter because it will be passed on to the next form of life that ingests the lifeform that incorporated the neural energy and so on and so forth down the food chain

I'm pretty certain that once you're dead you're dead and that's that but I do like to wonder if there actually is an afterlife. I think that people believe in them to make the prospect of death a little lighter and to help ease the pain caused by the loss of family or maybe the fear of dying.

Ditto what you said BW, but I'm pretty much positive that once you buy the farm as it were, thats it. You don't magically float up to heaven, or some unearthly spectral plain. That's it. Finito, caput, etc. We are animals, our bodies rot, or are burnt and then thats it. I think people fear their own deaths too, so believing that you will live on in some 'spirt' form eases the anxiety of that perhaps. Maybe.

Right. I read through what I typed, and I can't think of anything more to add. Thankyou Calantyry for helping me out (I told him stuff, he told it back me in a clearer and concicer way, I c&p'd).

In a way I kinda agree with you Black Wings and Lill Bear about people 'making up these stories' so that 'life has some kinda meaning'. But then I figured that 'it was a nice story, and I liked it, so I'm gonna believe it'. Because there is no evidance for what I previously typed out.



Care to elaborate Artist?

What you said BIC is really interesting, would you care to elaborate a bit more. Also BIC, have you heard of the, I think it is 13 grammes theory?

I searched the 13 grammes theory and I got this with which I need a translation (I haven't got a PHD)

Imagine that when a human dies or decomposes, neural energy is released into the surrounding area, Ill take the atmosphere as an example it's probably dispersed among several other humans that breathe in that same air but it survives in the air then is passed from the air that the blood takes from the lungs to the cells that use that air but some might go into plants which are eaten by other animals

Now to try to explain the near death experiences. We normally experience these near where the body has died at the start of which is just as i've said, but as we start to disperse our memory fades and our brains afterwards interprets this fading as visions. That's the best I can do at the moment