WARNING: THIS VIDEO IS VIOLENT AND SHOULD ONLY BE WATCHED IF YOU ARE NOT SQUEAMISH OR WEAK HEARTED.

http://www.peta2.com/takecharge/t-wetseal.asp

I have to say that I tend to find PETA to be a bunch of self righteous ***holes, but this time I agree. I could only watch a few seconds before coming near tears and being physically sick. Not that I shop there anyway, but I'm actually going to boycott Wet Seal because of this.

So here we have animal rights, fur, and all sorts of other stuff in this little can of worms. I'm not against leather or fur per se, but I'd like to see a little more humanity and given the choice, I take faux fur or leather.

And on the opposite side of the spectrum, I recently read an article ( http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/06/17/peta.arrests.ap/index.html ) about two PETA members who illegally and unnecessarily euthenized healthy cats and puppies that they were supposed to be finding homes for. People suck.

I actually had to stop watching because I started crying so hard and felt so sick. It's saddens and angers me that people could be as cruel to another living creature as that. The face of the first defurred animal is still burnt into my memory. Needless to say, I won't be buying any Wet Seal merchandise anytime soon.

That is horrible and disgusting and just plain wrong. The poor animal is still alive. The least they could do was take the trouble to kill it first. I'm not against wearing animal fur or eating animals and such but I thought that they only skinned the dead animals and used the meat for food aswell. My views have most certainly taken a firm change around.

Warning, includes a brief discription of what happens.

I have never seen anything so disgusting in my entire life. I watched it through to the end.. by the time it finished I was shivering all over and tears were weling up.

There is simply no excuse for that. They don't even bother to kill them. Just whack them on the head or stand on their neck so they loose strength to struggle hard enough. Then they peel their skin off like a banana.

I'm sure one of them cuts off a dog/wolf's penis later on in the clip. The creature was writing so much I felt sure it could have snapped its own spine.

I have never had a very high opinion of PETA. However after that I am willing to listen to what they say more.
Watching that dog with no skin looking at the camera afterwards... whoever is willing to do such a thing must be the dregs of humanity. I know that there will always be a business for skins, just painlessly kill the damned animals first.

The most striking thing was that there were still many cages full of animals awaiting the same fate.
This is just wrong.

So, firstly, I've not watched the clip. And I probably won't.

But for perspective, how many of you have seen the inside of an abbatoir? Or even footage of one? Have you seen cows, pigs, and sheep being killed, so that we can all enjoy our Sunday roasts? I'm sure it's far far less harrowing than the clip posted here, but it's still cold and shocking to see.

Humans, oddly enough, are the least humane of the species.

I am equally repulsed by this vid. But I must join Jonman in remaining sane, as once more we are being convinced by undescribably biased advertising. The guys on that page offer the CEO of that companies home address, so maniacs can go destroy him and his wifes life at a personal level.

One MUST excercise ones right to work out for ones self who the enemy is. We don't know these particular butchers even supply that brand with the prime materials. It is certainly implied, but if it were posted on here by a person it wouldnt get passed the first day without people demanding sources of info etc.

I eat meat, and wear clothes. I would also gladly get medieval on those 'farmers' ... but I'm not selling my brain to agree with equally wild and frothing nutters.

Fighting fire with fire is not necessarily that good ...

That is f---ing sick. F---ing sick! The start is just horrific, only made worse by the close up of the poor animal as it is overwhelmed by pain.

Ok, I'm watching it as I post, and now I've got tears running down my face. I can't continue watching ...

Words defy me.

PeTA's "no-kill" shelters have an 85% kill rate. That's the largest kill rate in the US.

EDIT: I hate raccoons.

Constructive!

Twat.

EDIT: And yes, I am aware of irony.

little_bear: I don't seeing how being less than polite is constructive either. Or name calling for that matter. Surely there's the issue at hand to discuss instead.

And as for the video, I don't dare watch it. I can't really handle movie violence. But I think it would be roughly the same bliss as reading about Asian treatments of cats, dogs and other food animals at market. Humanity is a terrifying species. At least most other animals have less interest in torturing you.

I sincerely doubt that was actually Wet Seal there, for three reasons.

1. Wet Seal is a big corporation, right? Then why the hell would they be getting fur from some backwater place in some other country (language doesn't sound english)?

2. The video fails to show evidence that those are Wet Seal employees.

3. The PeTA employees were there, yet they didn't lift a finger to help the animals?

Point 2) Irrelevant. The point is, by having fur products, there is a greater demand, therefore more of this goes on.

Point 3) I daresay the kind of man that can do that to a creature is not the kind of man one messes with.

I only watched the first half of the video. It's horrific, I'm a vegetarian and where possible I avoid buying leather based products, but I didn't cry.

That people can do that is sick and wrong but it's also sick and wrong for people to post the address of one of the head people of companies that they don't disagree with. Especially not when there is no evidence that the company is actually involved.

I doubt that is even a fur company, or even a real fur farm. Judging by PeTA's track records,those PeTArds most likely did that themselves, taped it, and released it as a video of a fur farm.

PeTA is more concerned with making money than they are animals.
Remember that animals DO die for the farming of vegetables, the blades on those combine harvesters look pretty sharp to me.
PeTA completely overlooks this and is concerned onl about donations. (That's a pretty expensive-looking jacket there, Ms. Newkirk!)

1. It is not shown how big the operation is. There are racks and racks of cages, but we only see two or three workers. It's in China, as far as I can tell. But how big does it have to be? Multiple sites all add up.

2. I do not think they are working for Wet Seal. The PETA site only says that this is the sort of thing that happens in fur resource gathering operations. So even if it's not done under the Wet Seal banner it still contributes to the overall trade.

3. These guys are walking about with a large collection of sharp tools. They look like big burly men. They are so cold hearted that they skin creatures alive and stamp on their heads. It looks like it is the middle of nowhere, so probably away from police forces. You do not walk up to them and ask them to change their livelihood. If you do then you will crawl away with a few less limbs.

I am not against killing animals for food or clothing. However the animal should be killed quickly and painlessly.

Nike is a big corporation, right? Then how come its clothes are all made in poor countries?

McDonald's is a big corporation, right? Then how come it buys its meat from the Third World?

Because it's cheaper. Makes much more economic sense.

I comend PETA for what they have done. It is through one of their videos that I became a vegatarian.

There are so many companies that abuse the animals they keep. From KFC to IAMS to Weat Seal.

Because of PETA, the general public can see what is being done to the animals around them, that they may not have known before.



Check this out. It is a list of companies that DO test on animals.
http://us.f311.mail.yahoo.com/ym/ShowLette...1&PRINT=1&Idx=0

They are. PeTA wants you to think otherwise.

Except for the gruesome effects of the croppers, the incesticides put onto the fields, and the rats starved to death caught in rat-traps all the way along.

PeTA always fails to provide a solid who, what, where, when or why for ANY of their videos, therefore allowing them to say whatever they want about them.

To comment on PeTA leader Ingrid bloody Newkirk, "Our philosiphy is [to speak]... ten percent truth."

Honestly, I think PeTA is only concerned with money.

Read my above post on what also happens during the vegetable farming.

I haven't watched the video, because I am well aware of the cruelty the human race can inflict, both on the innocent, and upon itself... also, I don't need the nightmares robbing me of what little sleep I do get. My philosophy: Death is unavoidable, but pain is inexcusable. I eat meat, but I don't buy fur. If I wanted fur, there are more than adequate artificial sources.

Judaism pioneered a relatively painless form of meat processing, where the animal is dispatched with a blow to the head, and hung up, with it's throat slit, to bleed dry. Only after the animal is dead, and exsanguinated, is it skinned and processed.

Many native American cultures actually expressed thanks to the souls of the animals they killed for food, thanking them for their sacrifice.

Remember, even vegetarians have to kill, to eat, and everything living has to eat to keep living.

Um, what?

Are you honestly telling us that when animals are killed for food and/or clothing, it is only ever done painlessly, and tales of animal cruelty in either industry are wholly fabricated by the godless communists at PETA? Please, when entering the Issues forum, let's leave our tinfoil hats by the door, shall we?

Yup, and kosher meat is also the cleanest. I was so thoroughly disgusted by non-kosher meat packing plants that I just ended up becoming a vegetarian. At first I only ate kosher meat, but it's expensive (at least where I live) and I am but a poor college student.

Also, I think eating a leek or mushroom or head of lettuce or whatever that was grown organically isn't really the same as eating a chicken that didn't have room to move during its life before being slaughtered, so I don't understand what you're trying to get at with the whole "vegetarians have to kill to eat as well" thing. It's not just the killing, but the treatment before it dies. I would probably still eat meat if it weren't for that, and the whole cleanliness thing. *shudder*

Also, just to assure arachnidoc that it wasn't some crazy PETA (why do you keep typing it as PeTA?) scheme that influenced my vegetarianism ( ), I didn't learn about meat packing plants through a PETA video...it was a combination of my local news and various online and book sources. I think PETA can be a bit extreme in a lot of cases, but that doesn't mean they don't have a point in several cases.

moop says: Oh noes! arachnidoc doesn't think PETA are providing any concrete evidence! Maybe I'd believe they're only out for money if you were to provide concrete evidence yourself rather than repeatedly stating your opinion over and over again as if this proves something. It reminds me of Ann Coulter trying to state that Canada went to war in vietnam without any evidence (and likewise being wrong). They actually have some video evidence of animal cruelty, regardless of where it is - it clearly does happen.

[spam]

[tool-flood]

...and as we descended cries of impending doom rose from the soil, one thousand-nay-a million voices full of fear... angel of the Lord? What are these voices? and he replied "these are the cries of the carrots, you see Rev. Maynard, tomorrow is the harvest day and for them... it is the hollocaust"

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it just had to be done

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I'm saying all this bullshit PeTA keeps spewing out is completely and utterly false.

Yes, Wet Seal gets their fur from some backwater place in Asia in some dirthole, instead of a clean, sterile environment where the fur will not get dmaged. *sarcasm*. Yes, thousands of dollars are spent to electrocute cows to kill them, even though they know it doesn't work. *sarcasm*

Cows get some lead, straight through the brain. They don't even see it coming.

Also, to clear things up, by the time they were skinning the animals, they were most likely dead from the head-bashing, it's all neurological.

So, you're saying we should cage all the lions to stop them from mauling other animals because that's animal cruelty?

Spam alert:

Plants who are verbally abused grow less and are more likely to die.

In one case, when one plant was burnt, not only that plant but all the plants in that room had, from that point on, trouble growing.

Why not? Like I said, plenty of big corporations do it - it's cheaper.



Lions don't have any other way to live. We do.

So, you're saying that PETA brutally tortured and killed a bunch of animals to make people think that corporations were brutally torturing and killing animals?

I know that I'm going to sound completly clueless, but, what exactly does PETA do?

Clicky (Google knows all - and I can't be accused of spewing unbalanced opinions this way >_>)

I take it you didn't watch the video, or if you did watch it again. The dog/wolf dripping blood from its skinless body as it looks at the camera then wriggles as it tries to move, looks back at the camera. If that animal was dead then I better go bury myself, I'd probably move like that if I had my fur removed.

Okay, here's how I see it (thought comp won't let me see the video). Arachnidoc, you claim we can't prove Wet Seal had anything to do with that particular incident. It very well might not have had anything to do with that place, and that time. But look at it this way. If PETA says "Boycott every place that sells fur", that's a bit vague. You have to win battles to win a war. Wet Seal is part of the problem. Should PETA's action force a change of policy at Wet Seal, then doubtless they will target another large corperation next. It's a more effective and expedient way of attacking the fur industry than some hazy idealism dictating that people not purchase fur.

I'm curious about PETA's opinions on lobster treatment. I mean, they're tossed into boiling water while still alive, or bashed in the head with the handle of a knife. It's a common practice in some Chinese cooking to cut the lobster into manageable pieces for cooking while it's still alive, but why haven't I heard complaints about this?

Perhaps it's more People for the Ethical Treatment of Fuzzy-Wuzzy Things?

Apologies if that came off callous or harsh, but I can't help but wonder if PETA's leaning too hard on manipulating people's emotions to get them to side with the group. The video sounds horrifying (I don't plan on watching it), and PETA's website asks people to dress in bunny suits telling mallgoers about what Wet Seal does to bunnies. Yes, this sort of animal cruelty should be stopped, but is it necessary to traumatize people to get their support?

(edited to clarify)

Mm no...they're quite vehemently against the way lobsters are cooked, if I'm remembering correctly. PETA made a big fuss awhile back about a lobster in some Maine restaurant that was being raffled off to be eaten that was rather old and large. That was a long time ago...maybe 8 or 9 years. I was rather young.


And I've just noticed that I'm logged in as Ste. Gnah. This is Candice posting, not him.

Like I said, they're only concerned with money.
That's why this "non-profit" orgagnization owns stock.
That's why a lot of the big PeTA feds eat meat (totally NOT unbeknownst to the others) and were only expelled from PeTA when the media found out.
That's why PeTA also expelled an overweight exec because it made them look bad.

Well..actually many of the animals, including cows, are killed inhumanly. For example: In a PETA vid, they were inside a meat proccesing plant and the cows were hung by thier back hoofs, and had thier throats slit with no anthesia or such. There are fully concious when bled.
Chickens are treated horribly to: When the chickens are killed, they have to be dipped in boiling water to get the feathers off. Most of the time, the chickens are not killed well so they are skinned alive.


I could use more examples but I think I made my point.

I choose to eat meat. If PeTArds want to gnaw on celery sticks for the rest of their lives, fine, I could care less.

It's when the PeTArds start trying to shove this propaganda down our throats that irritates me.

PeTArds can grow their own organic vegetables. It would be an inconvenience, yes. That's why those PeTA members choose not to, because it inconveniences them.

The PeTA-philes choose to look beyond the fact that there are just as many (if not more) animals brutally maimed and otherwise killed during vegetable farming than there are in the meat industry. They have a concience to upkeep and the truth will only hurt it.

Bullocks. WHY would they spend money on it if it fails most of the time?
Why would they bother boiling it alive instead of chopping its head off first?
It doesn't make sense, it's PeTA-fabricated jargon for the purpose of brainwashing.

Ya see, the difference between you and me is, I don't care. I don't care, I never WILL care, and I never HAVE cared. There's nothing short of a miracle that can change that.

arachnidoc17: Er.. so clearly Peta and the rest of us are making up a vast conspiracy of false allegations? Like making videos, investigative reports made at various times, ect.. Oh, dozens of fake pictures and all. heh.

Edit- I'm not sure PETA matters the most. Well, except for the obvious confirming of information, how it might be spun, ect. If the video and such is proven true, whether PETA is the most admirable organization doesn't seem to matter the most as far as the abuse goes. People might spin it as they choose, but as long as it exists at all, thats the biggest issue.

So why are you here commenting?

You don't get it, do you, Arachnidoc? Let's narrow the field down to just cows for now. Even those who own and slaughter thousands of cows a day barely break even. It's expensive to buy and keep the cows, feed them, care for them etc. Because you're barely making money as it is, they're not going to be paying extra for anthesia, and they don't have time, nor do they care, whether or not that animal is actually dead before it's drained. Same with the chickens. Chances are, they're not spending ANY money on killing these chickens. They're probably having Frank twist the chickens' neck or bash their head on something before they're dipped in the obiling water. Frank doesn't care if the chickens' are still clucking, the big Chicken Corp. doesn't care, so it keeps going on and they're not going to lift a finger to kill the chickens humanely.

It IS all about money. And believe it or not, they're not making very much, so thye'll do anything to save a few pennies.

Oh, and I think you're posting something else as I'm typing this, but I'm referring to your post at 7:14.

As for the video, the most disturbing thing about it besides the skinnless animal blinking into the camera was the fact that in the background people were laughing while men, indeed, pulled the skin off these creatures like they were a banana.

Oh, and arachnidoc, PETA wasn't shoving any propeganda down your throat. In my area of the country, they don't have commercials, and it was your choice to watch that video. If they're protesting at your mall, ignore them, and maybe consider that the "PETArds" on the bottom level, the ones with the picket signs, not the fat cats in shiny offices, really DO care about the animals. They have a strong opinion about the same thing you have a strong opinion about, the opinion is just different. I support PETA and it's cause, only because SOMEONE needs to stick up for the animals. They do some things that I don't like, but it's the only organization I can look to right now. Suck it up, arachnidoc.

What would be the point of making all the videos, photoshopping all the pictures etc.. if there was nothing to be getting out of it? PETA is here to show all the abuse towards animals.
The employees of the meat producing plants dont give a damn about the animals that they are killing. Thats why they dont pay attention to how they are killed. PETA has no reason to make this stuff up.

If you don't care so much, why are you putting up such a fight?

Here's my interpretation of the whole emat-eating vs. veganism thing:


You buy vegetables that are harvested by a farmer who not only kills the field mice, birds, etc., but also got the manure to grow the crop from a local factory farm butchering cows, you are still supporting that farm. Get over it, you know that's not your interpretation of "right". Does it hold up to your principles? You find collateral damage to be acceptable, so you know what that means? UTILITARIANISM.

YES THEY DO.

The reason they have to put up a fight is, (let me hint to you here)
it starts with a D.
It has three syllables.
Mindless, drooling sheeple give it to them.

Also, I meant that I could care less about the animals.

Do you realize that there's a /slight/ difference in something possibly, accidentally dying.. and killing a creature as horrifically as possible? Or that this small difference might in fact matter to people who don't admire torture? As animal abuse is a big indicator of potential future human abuse, its not something we want to encourage.

It's true what you say about vegetable farming, and it's equally as sad as it is true. But another truth is that a lot of vegetarians, including myself, don't have a choice where we get our vegetables.

The answer is: donations. PeTA makes $21 million dollars annually, and uses .01% of it for animal welfare.

You get your information from where? Somewhere just as sketchy as you think PETA is?

Please post your sources. I'd love to see what this is based off of. Actual financial records? Undercover investigation? Whatever it is, I'm curious.

Thats why you can buy organic material for farming and such that does not connect with farms used for butchering animals or have pesticides or such in it.

We do hold up to our principles thank you very much, dont go talking about what you dont know

So? Either way, tons of gophers and such are going to get mauled by those big harvesters.

Okay, go to every grain silo (is that whayt they're called?) and ask if they use rat-traps. Do this with the warehouses and the grocery stores as well.

arachnidoc17: You do have sources for this, don't you? About the percentage of innocent animals destroyed by farmers compared to those tortured to death in fur trades, ect? Especially since to believe animals shouldn't be abused we have to play world police and monitor everyone possibly connected for every possible violation. Why its our personal job to enforce this on dozens of farmers, workers and everyone else, I'm not sure. Or why you suggest its the only way we could really mean what we say or believe. Have you put this much effort into your PETA research?