I was just thinking, alot of people I know seem to cold shoulder drinking, and alot of other people drink in excess but I dont usually meet someone in between. Society says drinking is bad untill you turn 21 (in the US anyway....) but Peer Pressure edges more twards "you're cool if you drink" And I'm wondering what your opinions are on the subject. Personaly, I think drinking is fine unless you're abusing it. I'm 15 and am currently drinking a Heineken, because I really havent been able to sleep lately and am looking forward to the calming effects it will have on me.

So what do you think? Is it bad for someone so young to be drinking? Are laws blowing things out of porportion? Do the laws make kids want to drink more and more because its "bad" or is it how kids will always react?

I'd have to say that (as per usual) anything in excess is bad.

That said, I am currently under age, but I do occationially like to have a few drinks. I also feel that the drinking age should be lowered to 18, but not in one jump. (For example, lowering it a year per year until it reaches 18)

The only big hangup I have about how young kids should be able to drink (by that I mean even having an occational beer) is how much it effects the developent of the adolecent mind. Personally, I would allow education about alcohol to my children until they get about your age or so, and then allow them, only once in a while, to have some (read: maybe 1/4-1/2 of a bottle of beer).

Of course, I'm not naiive enough to think that they won't possibly go out and drink with their friends, but I'd at least do my best to educate them enough to make an informed decision about it.

The problem (except perhaps in children) isn't if one drinks, as how one drinks. In much of Europe and some American families, teenagers have an occasional glass of wine and don't damage themselves. I wouldn't want them drinking with friends because of the usual idiocy involved (generally) in large groups and alcohol. While plenty of teenagers aren't alcoholics, groups seem to prompt stupid behavior like binge drinking more than being alone would do.

I don't think the laws make anyone drinking, judging by European youth. Its less forbidden, yet they seem to manage just fine. I don't think the laws blow thing of proportion, considering statistics. In America alone, we lose more teenagers to alcohol related incidents than we've lost in the whole Iraq war. That said, I'm sure the law and programs could potentially be adjusted for the better.

I drink wine if I'm out with my family for a posh meal or whatever, and I drink beer/lager (whatever the guys are having, I'm too poor to buy my own ) occaionally otherwise. Apart from that I don't drink. I hate alcopops. Being as I'm 1) short and 2) female, it really doesn't take that much to get me drunk, and I don't like being out of control. Spirits make me throw up.

A friend of mine regularly goes out and gets drunk. From what she tells me about it afterwards, she spends a lot of that time crying (she's pretty, so ends up in a lot of "will they, won't they" situations with guys, and she never cris about ti when she's sober so it all comes out when she's drunk.) What's the point of that? And her hangovers are worse than mine, and mine are pretty bad. I asked her why she did it and she said "Because it's fun. It makes everything funnier. And everyone does it."

Eurpoean friends tell me that they've been legally allowed to purchase and drink alcohol from some very low age, so it's not so much of an attraction, as the rebellious "I'm cool cos I'm disobeying authority" thing is gone. However, they have much bigger problem with smoking, which is more restricted.

So, yes. Agreed with believe, I think.

Agreed re: not whether, but how.

I drink in moderation. I never get drunk (this is a recent resolution, for those of you who've had the dubious pleasure of experiencing me drunk), because I don't enjoy it, especially in social situations. Wine with a good meal, because honestly people that needs to be done with good food, and sometimes some Scotch of an evening, but not much else. My tastes in drink are pretty specific.

From a purely biological standpoint, I agree that it's not the wisest course of action for a teenager to be getting battered, mainly because teenagers have a tendancy to not fully consider the consequences of their actions. And that, combined with the impairment of judgement that comes with getting drunk can lead to problems. And of course, hangovers can interfere with school etc.

That said though, I see no problem whatsoever with teenagers having occasional drinks, especially with meals. I'd want to try and discourage regular drinking, more than occasional drinking to excess, and most importantly, I'd want to discourage the notion that you must drink or be drunk in order to have fun and be social, an attitude which is extremely prevalent here in the UK (thanks mainly in part to pub culture, I reckon)

And with that said, from my own experiences, I spent the majority of my 15+ teenage years drinking a couple of times a week, and getting proper drunk at least a couple of times a month. I had an amazing amount of fun, came to no harm (other than a chipped tooth), and don't really regret any of it. Of course, I'm just one example, and you could say that I'm lucky that nothing worse happened. You'd probably be right.

Thing is, as teenagers are growing up, they have to slowly become more self-reliant, and more imporantly, self-determining, making their own decisions. That's what adolescence is, the transition between being a child, reliant on others for everything, and becoming an adult, when you're ultimately responsible for yourself. Learning how to drink sensibly/responsibly isn't something that magics itself into someone's head when they hit 15 - it needs to be learnt, and can only be learnt through experience. And as with so many aspects of life, you learn through making mistakes. It's taken me the best part of 13 years to learn that drinking so much that I can't get out of bed the next day because it feels like a thousand angry wasps are having sex inside my head is not actually a very wise course of action.

In light of that, I think that it's healthy and normal for teenagers to want to experiment. The trick is to be able to let them find out for themselves, while making sure they don't get themselves into trouble in the process. Not an easy feat.

P.S. And on the point of the US drinking age being 21, I find it ludicrous, if not even morally outrageous that you can join the army or legally buy and own firearms at 18, but can't have a beer. Completely stupid. If you're enough of an adult to consent to going to war, you're sure as hell capable of consenting to putting booze in your belly.

There are other ways to learn than this though. I have been stupidly drunk, but I went into getting drunk the first time fully expecting to feel like crap the next morning (and boy was I right). And what about things like smoking? You can't just say "Oh, they'll learn once they've had lung cancer that smoking is a bad idea." Same for alcohol. Holding your friend's hand on the way to the hospital because she's had a couple of years worth of hangovers and it hasn't taught her to be careful, so now she's going to have her stomach pumped... it's not fun. And there's liver damage, brain damage... It just seems like, yes, they proabably need to learn through their mistakes to a certain extent, but where does it stop? Some people aren't sensible like others, and they don't learn.

Yeah, that's some good points.

What are the other ways to learn how to sensibly control attitudes towards booze though? Obviously, schools and parents need to take educational roles, but how much of that goes in one ear and out the other? Experience allows the education to be 'in context'.

You've got to give teenagers enough rope to hang themselves, while simultaneously making sure they don't hang themselves. It's a balancing act, balancing their freedom to make their own decisions against their safety.

In the case of your friend, someone (and I'm thinking a parent) ought to have taken some action before your friend got to the point of being taken to hospital.

Smoking is (imo) a different matter. I see 'sensible' drinking as a mostly-harmless activity. There is no such thing as 'sensible' smoking. Additionally, with the higher addictiveness of nicotine, there's a much higher chance of regular, daily use.

Had to edit after catching your post and Gothic Angel's. The thing is that if a parent successfully teaches a kid responsible attitudes (a parent being much more important than any school), then the odds are good the child will come back to that. A fair share of teenagers will still be stupid, but once they get past the booze culture of high school/college/pubs, they usually come back to what they were taught to some degree. Preventing teenage stupidity is a whole other mess and something we can only have limited success. My mom was one of those involved parents that called their parents, meet my friends and checked on where I was. I still could have had sex, gotten drunk and high repeatedly, if I'd wanted too. And I had less freedom than most of my friends. I really feel for parents these days, as they try to find that balance you mentioned, Jonman.

As for the people that dance with self-destruction, well.. thats all down to whether its too late or not for that to be fixed. If people are hurting themselves badly, there's usually been signs for a while now. Some teenagers/people seem fixable, others determined to crash and hit rock bottom. Its a nasty business trying to sort out who's in what category and if you can save them. Worse, because a lot of the time it was preventable if the adults/family members/ect bothered to pay enough attention and try to help before it resulted in explosion or things like consistent binge drinking.



Can't argue with that. Its not as if the age limit actually stops underage drinking anyway.

I just got back from France a less than twenty four hours ago. It was amazing to see what many Americans would call "lax morals" or some such (i.e. nudity everywhere and, probably more importantly, the easy accessability of alcohol.) So yeah, I had some alcoholic beverages, but it was in strict moderation for not only reasons of safety, but practicality and of a general feeling of "hot damn, I payed four frickin' thousand dollars for this trip and I want to remember it."

That said, I've discovered an affinity to French wines ( ) and a dandy little drink called Perrier Cassis (sp?)

As for my views on the drinking age, I think it's completely ludicrous for the governments in the States to determine 21 as the drinking age. I believe wholeheartedly that if the drinking age were lowered to a more reasonable age (say... 17) it would cut down on a lot of fatalities and over drinking in teenagers simply because it would take away the novelty and the "grown up feelings" of it all. This of course feeds into my opinion on Marijuana, but that's a different story entirelly.

As with all things, moderation is the key.

I agree with Jon-- experience is a learning experience! Let kids have fun, and when they realize what they've been doing is crazy and dangerous, they'll cut it out and start drinking less frequently and in more moderation. I don't like alcohol for a couple reasons, but that's not to say I've never been drunk to the point of retardation before. 'Bout 2 weeks ago there was a family get-together and my uncle, a year older than me, was on his 13th beer or so, and all the old fols were pretty tipsy, so I decided I would have some fun and try to outdrink the family alcoholic. 15 shots, a few shooters, some Jack and a couple cigarettes later, I was hurling in my aunt's back yard. I went home, passed out, woke up feeling like I was gonna die, made myself throw up again, and passed out next to my mom ("Don't puke on my bed," were her words of wisdom).

Amazingly, I didn't have a hangover. But I woke up slightly queazy and didn't trust food for half the day. My uncle ended up upchucking in my grandparent's brand new SUV, much to my delight. He and I both spent the majority of the day cleaning up puke from the bathroom or the interior of a car.

And I've learned my lesson. My grandfather called and told me I shamed him in front of the entire family, that I was disgraced. I didn't even want to think about what my aunt would think when she woke up and smelled my puke. I am really ashamed. Although I had the time of my life, I'm not drinking again for a long while, especially at family functions. No more altering my consciousness in front of my family!

Each time I drink and wake up in the middle of the night sure of my death, it stops me from drinking for another year or so.

Plus, as kids get older and they can buy their own booze, the rush of sneaking it will be gone, and they won't be so prone to it. In highschool at least. I have heard stories of mostly chicks who get out of college alcoholics, but that's only a few in the whole group who experimented. The culture shock of responsibility and a job usually works to sober kids up.

I also agree with Jon, where we need to instill in people and kids that you can have fun sober. That's one of the hardest parts of rehab, incidentally. When people learn that, they're less likely to turn to drugs and alcohol when they're bored.

I think all of you have good points.... And all your points agree with eachother, no one is opposed to alcohol and its sort of a curious occurance because teachers make it seem like the devil.

Truth be told, I love my liquior. It tastes awesome, and it has a nice calming affect on me. I've never been drunk cuz honestly I dont want to be but I think I might be more obsessed with liquior than anyone I know so far.... To the point where I'm the Designated Coctail Maker in the house, and I'm the one advising my parents to buy a bottle of gin and such. My mum also bought me a book of coctail recipes.

All in all. Maybe it is about exparimenting and realizing that some things are just stupid for you to do. Alot of it is probally about peer pressure and some of it due to poor education on the subject. I know that since technology is getting better parents arent really "raising" Their children anymore. As of now parents dont need to enforce what their children watch on TV, they have programs to do it. Same with the internet. And really, a parent can walk into a school and deam the information they're teaching their children unacceptable and have them change it.



Perrier with black current syrup?

Yeah. Good stuff.

Reminds me of a shirly temple except thats grenadine (pomagranite) instead of black currant....

If I ever find black currant syrup I'll be sure to buy some Perriere and make myself one

Alcohol and Tobacco are drugs, just like Marijuana or Paxil... the difference is in how they're perceived. There is a reason prescription drugs are controlled by Doctors. DRugs, by definition, affect brain chemistry, which affects mood and decision making abilities. It is, therefore, never a good idea to self medicate, but in the case of tobacco and alcohol, we allow just that, to people judged to be responsible adults. Of course, the determination of adulthood is arbitrary, based on age, rather than demonstrated maturity. And, once one starts smoking or drinking, The chemicals involved alter thought processes, and reduce responsibility. So the whole system is flawed from the start...

AS for Teen drinking and smoking, forbidding them to do so, only makes them want to do it more. It's the classic case of forbidden fruit... If we didn't work so hard to make these habits look glamorous, while making them forbidden, we wouldn't have nearly so much trouble with them. and medical expenses would also decrease...

That said, personally, I don't care for any kind of drugs, but that's because I know my limits. I know that I have an addictive personality, and so stay away from video games, alcohol, gambling, Drugs... basically anything that could hurt me if taken in excess, because I'm afraid I will take them to excess... But that's me.

I say that you can't keep people who are self destructive from self destructing. The best you can do is be there to pick up the pieces, if they ever decide to get straight... We shouldn't deny those who can hold their booze, just because some will destroy themselves with it. Same thing with drugs, pornography, etc. As long as you don't hurt someone else, I say you should be allowed to take yourself out any door you like...

That being said, Usually friends are there to "pick up the pieces" if the person wants to go straight, usually its friends who try and help out. But the whole drug/alcohol issue starts first with parents and how the parents decide to deal with the problem. So, if a parent finds itself with a child who aches to go out and try this stuff, of course the parent is going to hold them back as much as possible.

"Mom I think I'm going to go out and get smashed"
"Okay, honey. Be back before dawn"

I just dont see that happening. But if it did, if a parent was smart enough to let their child go to a party or something of the sort where they know there will be alcohol and their kid will most likely take it in excess, how many parents will be there to talk and see how their kid reacts and what they can do to try and make them see responsibly?

I think I might be exaggerating a bit with my scenarios. But what I'm trying to say is most parents dont know how to parent and that might be the very base of the problem.

As an example. My parents really dont care if I drink, they just want me to ask for it. If I asked to make myself say a long island iced tea they'd say "You alcoholic" sarcastically, and let me. But! There was one case where I suggested me and my dad sit down and have a beer together and he said "No you cant have a beer" And the first thing I felt inclined to do was to go sneak a beer and drink it. (which I did the next day....) But I think maybe my dad should have told me he didnt really feel like drinking a beer or that it was too early for a beer maybe. A reasonable reason considering the set "rules" in the house.

And I agree with Jonman and Believe, 21 is an insane limit on drinking age. I could do anything I wanted with myself except drink.

I do know that scientists say thats when our bodies stop "growing and changing" so the alcohol wont "wrongly affect" our precious little bodies, but hell, I dont see why alcohol is more dangerous than say.... asprin.

I'm not sure that's such a large point in the problem. There is only so much parents can do, short of locking their kids in the house. Parenting isn't going to be the only influence on a child. Despite good parenting, screwups still happen. Kids are kids; they make stupid mistakes. Everyone makes mistakes despite their parenting. I know there are irresponsible parents and that in some cases that is the cause of the problem, but I wouldn't go so far as to say _most_ parents don't know how to parent.

Ugh, I will say this: Age (in my limited experience) has very little to do with being responsible with drinking. I know 14 year olds who drink more responsibly than my 19 year old friend, who, every time she goes drinking, ends up puking. Having said that, I also know 30 years old that I wouldn't trust with a bottle of sherry.

Um. Age limit here for drinking is 18 (in public, you are free to do whatever in your own home as long as you don't create a disturbance), and I think that's reasonable enough. I don't really see any reason to lower it, or raise it.

I'm not so sure. Maybe I'm being ignorant, but I think parents really do affect _alot_ of their childrens behavior, rather directly or indirectly. Though I do think that I shouldnt have narrowed it down to just "parents" But elders in general. Because when kids are young they're impressionable, and we learn our behavior from people older than us. Sometimes that ends up being school mates too.... but in say elementry school (where the issue of alcohol first came up) I didnt look to the older kids there to tell me what they think about alcohol, I just knew that teachers would say that its bad, and thats good enough for me.

Though I'm not the only person out there and I guess some might just be compleatly opposite from me....

Yeah, and I'm not denying that. I'm just saying that parents not knowing how to parent may not be biggest reason why underage kids drink. You just named another influence - teachers. There are tons of other influences, and a parent can only do so much. If someone's parents have guided them and done the best they can and a child decides to drink underage, then you can't really lay the blame on the parent. They're not exactly going to lock their kid up; there are many ways that alcohol can be accessed. You can't always place blame on the parents. Despite being underage, kids still make their own choices and do have some responsibility in the matter.

Speaking as a minor, there are so many factors that influence why someone underage would drink, and in my experience parents play a somewhat minor part of it. What I've seen, by and far as the most powerful pull to drink would be indirect peer pressure. I don't believe I've ever actually encountered what so many people think of as "peer pressure", as in

Hey Janie, why don't you sit down and have several drinks with us?
I don't know, Bethany. My mother told me not to drink
Your mother is a whore, Janie. Have a drink. Everyone's doing it.

but one or two people you know seen drinking could be just enough to make you reconsider the dangers of following their example. I've never known anyone forcing their habits on another, but that might be because my knitting club is usually so tired from a hearty round of knitting that they hardly have the energy to lift their Bacardi, let alone ask the nondrinkers to join in.

In another vein, I would think the worst type of immaturity would be treating that drink as a trophy, so in homeroom the next day you can pointedly moan and remark to the person next to you how sooooo hungooover you are. Honestly. To me, that smacks of attention-whorism and an utter inability to control what comes out of one’s mouth, let alone what goes in. So why is it these type of people are usually the first in their age group to reach for the bottle?

I’m not sure. I don’t drink myself, apart from the occasional sip of wine on some special occasion. I think my parents are doing a surprisingly good job of dealing with rope allotment, as evidenced by my disbelief when offered a Mt. Fugi Sundae (which has a wee bit of crème de menthe) at fourteen.

Maybe I’m too much of an alcohol virgin to be permitted an opinion, and yes, teen drinking is never a simple issue, but this thread contains a multitude of interesting opinions, some clashing more than others. Question for K!77y—do you drink with friends ever? Do their parents and yours ever clash?

elphaba2:

The thing is, there is a huge gap being drinking or getting drunk and alcoholism. Like for example: My Aunt and Uncle drink. They go to bars. They've gotten visibly tipsy and/or drunk at parties/nights out and have them reasonably regularly.

But.. when the party is over, they are at home with their children. My Aunt holds down a full time job and does it well and both of them were Scoutmasters with their chidren's troupe. Camping, activities, fund raisers, ect. The alcohol didn't take over their life or bleed into things it shouldn't.

Whether alcohol rules your life or not, is what I believe parents and childhood affects to a strong degree. Teenagers do have a tendency to do reckless or sometimes stupid things. I remember this vividly. Sometimes yeah, that includes partying. There is a huge difference between a kid that gets trashed on a weekend and a person that does it regularly to drown out their pain and 'function' and thats the one that matters once you leave high school, college and the peer pressure stops.

Much of this has probably already been written. I have only read about half the posts, and skimmed the rest. However as it is an opinion piece, I don't see the harm in adding my tuppence.

I'm of the opinion that drinking should really only be done as a social activity. In that respect, I then have few issues in lowering the US drinking age limit, but in the UK I think it is perhaps low enough.

It is the duty of youth to make mistakes. They should take a few knocks in order to prepare themselves for full adulthood. They should experiment (safely) and be prepared for the consequences. For that reason I think being a drunk teenager now and then and dealing with it are hand in hand with learning to be a functional adult.

Alcohol becomes dangerous when people consume it to excess. When it becomes a barrier between you and the world, or an end in itself, it has taken control of you and ruins your life. As an aid to social gatherings or 'taking the edge off things' now and then I think it has a place.

Heh, one of the reasons I drink is due to my insomnia. It is the only thing that I have ever tried that allows me to get a decent nights kippage, as long as I do not drink untill I am completly feasted and regret it the next day. However, even while I am doing this I try to do it in a social environment with others. I fear the day that I gain pleasure drinking with just the company of myself.

Drink often takes different people in different ways. Some become depressed, some violent, others have the time of their life. I become very chatty and social. I do not need it to enjoy myself, but it is a wonderful lubricant to a nights activities. But as with all drugs the side effects can change from person to person, and it is up to the individual to realise that it may be harming them (mentally and socially, if not physically).

I have done many stupid things while drunk. However, rarely have they directly affected another person in a negative way and even then it has been something I could make up to them. Ultimately I feel it has helped me to better myself. It has helped me establish my limits and recognise flaws in my character. Oddly, the act of poisoning myself in this way has probably helped me become a much healthier person.

As for the ludicrous state of laws in various countries.... well.

In the US for example (though constantly using them as an example must really grate on their nerves!) you can drink at 21 in most states. I think it was Raegan who basicly said that if the limit was not raised to 21 they would not get any Federal Highway funding. Whatever.

Anyway, you can join the military at 16. You can drive earlier too. So you can drive a vehicle which is the biggest killer in America. You can also be trained to kill. You can be sent out to kill. You can risk your life for your country. You can get married and raise kids....

But you are not considered adult enough to handle the occasional drink?

To me that just screams hypocracy and bad reason.At worst it yells a strange degree of self loathing. Meh.

As far as I can see, this leads to a problem once people hit 21. They own a car. They have been driving for years. They are secure in their capabilities. Woo! Yay! You can now drink! So they go out and drink, often to excess. And they drive. They havn't established their tolerances yet and they screw up, leading to highway disaster. I've seen the effects, it isn't pretty. People need the proper information and education before they embark on potentially life changing things. Sheltering people from alcohol and then letting the floodgates loose just leads in misery.

However I should put this in the right context. I have just drunk a bottle of Hoegaarden and have commenced consumption of a bottle of red wine in preperation for tonights festivities. So as a biased alcohol user, you may alter your opinion on my drivle.

I couldn't agree more. As with alot of people, I lose my inhibitions, end up dancing and having great fun

I believe that drinking, and underage drinking, is an important part of growing up. If you learn to find your limits at a younger age, then you are probably more likely to find your limits, or at least set yourself limits, in other things as well.
Although I don't believe that binge drinking in clubs and bars is acceptable where as I do believe that if you are in a controlled environment i.e someones house at a party, it is perhaps more of a learning curve.

Feel free to argue. I am with myself!

Just to provide some perspective on this - as a survivor of many a teenage house party, I'd say that I saw more irresponsible drinking at parties than in pubs and clubs, where the booze is more expensive, and your drinking tends to be broken up by going to the bar (and limited by closing time). At a party, on the other hand, you can happily wander around clutching a litre bottle of smirnoff, swigging liberally, before the last thing you remember is sitting cross-legged at the stripper's feet, shouting incoherently. Some indeterminate point later in time, you wake up under a hedge, covered in your own vomit, and with a head that's about to explode.*

*an amalgamation of several entertaining booze-episodes in my teenagerhood.

I dont drink with friends I go to school with. It tends to be my mum's friend's bunch. I see them at whatever party they get invited to, so its maybe 6 times a year. Though I tend not to like to hang out with people from school after school, I get enough of them during the day and dont feel they need to know about my personal life. As I said, they're my mom's friends so our parents dont clash, and they just happen to be all German and in most of germany the drinking age is 16, so I think they tend to have a more free and open view upon drinking.

I acctually think I drink with my parents more often than anyone else. Though lately its been a latenight beer by myself when I cant sleep for the life of me.



I really tend to avoid other people's house parties.... I just dont trust the people, I'm paranoid enough hanging around the sober, and even then I carry around my knife (this could potentially be bad in the future). Though! I've heard stories similar to yours, Jonman. And I'm keen to stick with hearing other peoples stories. One, from my best friends mom, Includes her getting smashed for the first time at a club with her friends present, and later ending up stuffed in a dumpster waking up at dawn.

You had strippers at parties?

pfft... I'm talking about the kind of parties where you have a cool box of different alcohols, and just listen to music, drink and be merry.

And perhaps hire a bouncy castle...

Current loony laws
I as a 17 year old I can drive a car unsupervised but I can't
buy spray paint or have a responsible drink


I know there are a lot of sencable 15 year olds and a lot of irisponsable<sp 18+year olds.
My underage drinking at 13 was stupid and dangerous my underage drinking now is not.
These things have to be taken on a case by case and situation by situation basis which the law cannot do therefore they make a fixed law which many people break.


PS the 21 thing is on one level garbage particcularly as I've been told that in some states you can drive certain vehicles at certains times at 15. On the other hand its very sensible to give people that many more years of driving legaly before they can legaly impare their judgement.

Drinking has never been a huge issue with me because i was brought up around it, therefore i never really got to interested in it. None the less, being a teenager does bring about curcimstances where binge drinking can occur (e.g. mates 18th). I believe that if people are suddenly allowed to buy alchohol, they will abuse their rights, and their body(liver).
P.S. i think it should be a bit longer after obtaining your full licence before you can drink too.

I was brought up around alcohol too but am compleatly facinated by it. Granted I dont binge drink, I've never been drunk, and dad tells me I hold my alcohol well.

So I guess it just depends on the person. THere may be someone else that grew up around alcohol and compleatly abuses it.

Though I agree about the licensing idea. North Carolina does a deal where 15 year olds can drive themselves to and from school, without a full license. So you gradually build up to your full license.

Speaking of which, I can get my permit this weekend....

I know it's a cliche, but it's true. All things in moderation. Excess isn't good for you, that's why it's excess. As long as you know your limit, and have a good time with your friends when you're drinking, then you should be fine. Just look at drinking as one of the things that can help you have a good time, and not a good time in itself.

I was sick for the first time ever as a result of too much alcohol, on friday night. It was outside at a friends' house, and I had drunk too much Cava (spanish sparkling white wine).

Was not fun. But probably won't teach me anything.

Probably should learn to stop drinking after the tipsy stage...

I just remembered this program I listened to on NPR once. There is this college (dont remember which) that fully acknowledges that college kids love to drink, and they see that its a problem But instead of putting ban's on it and that sort of thing they acctually _serve_ beer with dinner. Of course, you have to be 21 or older to buy it, and they ID you and all. But I think its cool that schools are trying to promote forming good habits with drinking instead of just saying "no its all bad stay away from it"

There's a saying I've heard among British martial artists - if you carry a knife, be prepared to have it taken off you and stuck in you. Carrying a knife is a bad idea from a standpoint of personal safety; it will escalate a potentially mildly violent situation into a potentially lethally violent one.

/off-topic safety post

Well, Commie, I guess I never thought of it that way. Though I tend to avoid people alot more than I see other people avoiding people, and I have a little 'plan' worked out where I'm not going straight for my knife when/if I'm in a situation. Though it could still be plucked off of me in any case. I think at the stage I'm at right now its much safer to have a knife with me since I'm not too strong physically and have never had much of a fighting experiance.

(most of my outside experiance is involved in the half mile walk home from school past a fairly small construction site. The problem being the workers who tend to like anything with boobs that walks.)