That's discusting and disturbing. I mean, ok, so they want to help burn victoms, great. But wouldn't YOU find it a little wierd to be walking down the street and see you dead mother's face on some stranger?
Full Version: Candidates Screened for First Face Transplant
Candidates Screened for First Face Transplant
That's discusting and disturbing. I mean, ok, so they want to help burn victoms, great. But wouldn't YOU find it a little wierd to be walking down the street and see you dead mother's face on some stranger?
That's discusting and disturbing. I mean, ok, so they want to help burn victoms, great. But wouldn't YOU find it a little wierd to be walking down the street and see you dead mother's face on some stranger?
I think I recall reading about this a few weeks ago. Yes, it's a bit eerie, but I don't think people will wind up looking like their face transplant: the bones under the skin cause its shape and structure, not the skin itself. I'm all for it, personally, though I can imagine the difficult decision to bury a friend, or parent, minus a face.
(here's the article I read: ny times but it requires a login to view.)
(here's the article I read: ny times but it requires a login to view.)
Yep, mostly the look of someones face is defined by the muscles and bone underneath the skin, not the skin itself. Although the link for this on BBC News does mention that other tissue can be transplanted along with it, and plastic/metal can be used to aquire the features in totality. So yes, with enough work (12 hours or so of surgery? Multiple sessions? Damn those doctors are going to be knackered) it would be possible to look exactly like the original owner.
Heh... the original owner of a face... I feel like I'm talking about Skindancers.
Of course you will need to take anti-rejection drugs for the rest of your life. Maybe once synthetic skin is developed this wont be a problem.. but meh.
I wonder how long this will take before it becomes the ultimate exercise in vanity. Plastic surgery not enough? Order a Johnny Depp FacePack off ebay! Okay maybe not that extreme, but you get my point.
It is a marvelous thing and I do not consider it stranger than organ transplant. Not sure I would volunteer to have my face sawn off and given to someone else though... I suppose that makes me a hypocrite.
Heh... the original owner of a face... I feel like I'm talking about Skindancers.
Of course you will need to take anti-rejection drugs for the rest of your life. Maybe once synthetic skin is developed this wont be a problem.. but meh.
I wonder how long this will take before it becomes the ultimate exercise in vanity. Plastic surgery not enough? Order a Johnny Depp FacePack off ebay! Okay maybe not that extreme, but you get my point.
It is a marvelous thing and I do not consider it stranger than organ transplant. Not sure I would volunteer to have my face sawn off and given to someone else though... I suppose that makes me a hypocrite.
I call dibs on Johnny Depp!
QUOTE (little_bear @ Sep 20 2005, 09:27 PM)
I call dibs on Johnny Depp!
As the only true pirate (Yarrrr!) on this board I get first pick of Captain Jack Sparrows booty.
Blast!
I mean:
Yarr! I'll be goin' away content if'n I gets a shot at his secret treasure.
If you be knowin' what I mean.
I mean:
Yarr! I'll be goin' away content if'n I gets a shot at his secret treasure.
If you be knowin' what I mean.
oh my god, i just feel terrible about that poor man Matthew Teffeteller. i wish i could do something for him 
QUOTE
"We get some pretty strange calls from people who are really not candidates," he said. For someone to be chosen, "they're going to have to get a pass from every member of the team."
Matthew Teffeteller might seem an ideal candidate.
Hair is driving him crazy. What used to be a beard can't grow through the skin-graft quilt that Vanderbilt University doctors stitched over parts of his face that were seared off in a car crash. Trapped under this crust, hair festers, leading to staph infections, pain and more surgeries.
"It's a nightmare and it never ends," he said. "Being burned is the worst thing that can happen to you. I'm about sure of it."
Teffeteller, 26, lives south of Knoxville, in the foothills of Great Smoky Mountains National Park where he worked, ironically, as a fire fighter. The day after Valentine's Day in 2002, he was taking his pregnant wife to buy a cowboy hat and go country line dancing to celebrate their first anniversary.
"The next thing I remember, everything just went all to pieces...there was a big explosion. I remember seeing gas splash off of the windshield," he said.
Rear-ended by a truck, his car flipped and caught on fire. His wife died. He was burned trying to free her.
"They said my face was charcoal black," he said.
He didn't see it for two months, until he glimpsed a mirror on his way to therapy.
"Oh, my God," he thought. "I remember seeing my eyes pulled open. I remember my ears were burned off, and I remember my bottom lip being pulled down."
Three years later, his face still frightens children. Yet he wouldn't try a transplant.
"Having somebody else's face ... that wouldn't be right. When I look in the mirror, I might be scarred but I can still tell that it's me," he said.
"I'd be afraid something would go wrong, too. What would you do if you didn't have a face? Could you live?"
Matthew Teffeteller might seem an ideal candidate.
Hair is driving him crazy. What used to be a beard can't grow through the skin-graft quilt that Vanderbilt University doctors stitched over parts of his face that were seared off in a car crash. Trapped under this crust, hair festers, leading to staph infections, pain and more surgeries.
"It's a nightmare and it never ends," he said. "Being burned is the worst thing that can happen to you. I'm about sure of it."
Teffeteller, 26, lives south of Knoxville, in the foothills of Great Smoky Mountains National Park where he worked, ironically, as a fire fighter. The day after Valentine's Day in 2002, he was taking his pregnant wife to buy a cowboy hat and go country line dancing to celebrate their first anniversary.
"The next thing I remember, everything just went all to pieces...there was a big explosion. I remember seeing gas splash off of the windshield," he said.
Rear-ended by a truck, his car flipped and caught on fire. His wife died. He was burned trying to free her.
"They said my face was charcoal black," he said.
He didn't see it for two months, until he glimpsed a mirror on his way to therapy.
"Oh, my God," he thought. "I remember seeing my eyes pulled open. I remember my ears were burned off, and I remember my bottom lip being pulled down."
Three years later, his face still frightens children. Yet he wouldn't try a transplant.
"Having somebody else's face ... that wouldn't be right. When I look in the mirror, I might be scarred but I can still tell that it's me," he said.
"I'd be afraid something would go wrong, too. What would you do if you didn't have a face? Could you live?"
This doesn't seem too different from organ transplants, which are also risky but improve the quality of health. If natural skin can graft on and give a disfigured person a new face, I'm all for it. People with disfigured faces are stared at and sometimes ridiculed. A new face could help them fit in and feel better after bad burns and scarring.
QUOTE (Astarael @ Sep 20 2005, 04:10 PM)
If natural skin can graft on and give a disfigured person a new face, I'm all for it.
Ditto. How is it disgusting and wrong?
I wouldn't mind donating my face when I die. I rather like the idea of donating organs and stuff. I think it's kinda cool that bits of me would live on in other people and help them to live longer or just have a better quality of life.
I don't see what the big deal is. It's just skin.
*shrug* A lot of people are picky about what happens to their bodies after they die, I guess. But I figure if I'm not using the body anymore, someone else might as well...and why shouldn't that include the face?
I plan to donate my body to whatever medical aid use and research they can find for it when I die and have the leftover bits cremated. I like the idea of my ashes being blown away over the mountains or an ocean somewhere better than having the worms slowly eat my body when the coffin breaks down. I won't need it when I'm gone, so why not let it help other people who could use it to have a healthier life? I agree that donating organs is widely accepted and useful, and I don't see what the big problem with skin from your face is. 
Yeah I think I'll donate organs after I die too. Whatevers left can be dragged up a mountainside and the birds can have it.
Ooooh! Or put on a boat, sent out to see, and set aflame! While huge women in horned helmets sing my praises! Man my funeral is gonna be so much fun. Well, apart from everyone missing me terribly of course.
Ooooh! Or put on a boat, sent out to see, and set aflame! While huge women in horned helmets sing my praises! Man my funeral is gonna be so much fun. Well, apart from everyone missing me terribly of course.
The only problem with planning a cool funeral for yourself is that you'll never get to see it to fruition...
Bah, I'll haunt it and use my unearthly powers to throw custard pies around and waft up girls dresses and the like.
QUOTE (candice @ Sep 21 2005, 01:57 AM)
QUOTE (Astarael @ Sep 20 2005, 04:10 PM)
If natural skin can graft on and give a disfigured person a new face, I'm all for it.
Ditto. How is it disgusting and wrong?
It's the whole issue of 'identity'. Basically, our face is our identity - it is our distinguishing feature. It's been said before, but imagine shocked someone would be to see your deceased workmate, or best friend, or family member walk down the street past you. For me, there's just something inherently wrong in that.
Of course, there's also a whole new dimension of this issue with regards to identity theft. ¬_¬
But like others have mentioned, Littlebear, it's the underlying bones and muscles that make up most of how we look -- not the skin. I seriously doubt you could steal someone's identity if you had their skin on your face...you just wouldn't look THAT much like them.
As for the off-topic funeral thing...I want whatever bits of me that aren't used to be buried in a coffin made from a biodegradable material like willow or chipboard. It doesn't slow down the decaying process like a hermetically sealed coffin, and it's better for the environment (and of course, it's also better for the environment than being cremated). Yeah...I'm gonna be a conscientious corpse
As for the off-topic funeral thing...I want whatever bits of me that aren't used to be buried in a coffin made from a biodegradable material like willow or chipboard. It doesn't slow down the decaying process like a hermetically sealed coffin, and it's better for the environment (and of course, it's also better for the environment than being cremated). Yeah...I'm gonna be a conscientious corpse
My flatmate is doing anatomy and dissection this year - and they are guaranteed not to dissect anyone who they could have come into contact with. All of their "subjects" are from southern England (we're in central Scotland) so if that kind of distancing was happening with face transplants then I'd be all for it. I'm all for it anyway but I think if it was possible to have the distance thing it'd be more thoughtful for surviving relatives - they wouldn't be wandering through town and bumping into their dearly departed so to speak! But still - they've said the faces would look different depending on bone structure! I'm gonna be quiet now - I'm rambling.
I'd donate my face if anyone would have it! Same with my organs really - although I've probably done too much damage to myself by now!
Fal xXx
I'd donate my face if anyone would have it! Same with my organs really - although I've probably done too much damage to myself by now!
Fal xXx
I don't see anything wrong with this, When my brother died they took every usable part of him kidneys, liver, lungs, heart, eyes, skin, muscle tissue, bone marrow , We should have got a discount on the cremation.
QUOTE (candice @ Sep 21 2005, 03:30 PM)
But like others have mentioned, Littlebear, it's the underlying bones and muscles that make up most of how we look -- not the skin. I seriously doubt you could steal someone's identity if you had their skin on your face...you just wouldn't look THAT much like them.
Aye, fair point I guess. Perhaps I watch too many movies. ¬_¬
Still, I don't like the idea.
QUOTE (candice @ Sep 21 2005, 03:30 PM)
As for the off-topic funeral thing...I want whatever bits of me that aren't used to be buried in a coffin made from a biodegradable material like willow or chipboard. It doesn't slow down the decaying process like a hermetically sealed coffin, and it's better for the environment (and of course, it's also better for the environment than being cremated). Yeah...I'm gonna be a conscientious corpse
Actually all coffins are biodegradable, and unless you want to be paying over £900 for a coffin, you are more liekly to get a veneered one. Willow and cardboard coffins cost from about... £300-400.
(sorry... I worked in a funeral director's this summer, and it was very educational
)I think the whole idea is an excellent one, and if anyone wants my face when I die, then they should be welcome to it. As with all my organs.
I am already giving away some of my body, a pint at a time, every three months!I just have the view that it is a bit selfish to not give everyone the opportunity of "life"- be it a medical side, or a psychological side- so anything I can do to try and help others, I do.
Has anyone read the article in New Scientist a while back which spoke of the "re-aplication" of this girl's face after it had been ripped off by machinery? Very fascinating and might shed some more details onto what will go on...
QUOTE (Daria @ Sep 21 2005, 09:55 AM)
Actually all coffins are biodegradable, and unless you want to be paying over £900 for a coffin, you are more liekly to get a veneered one. Willow and cardboard coffins cost from about... £300-400.
Hermetically sealed coffins (the most common kind in America, anyway) are made with steel. The US buries about 180 million pounds of steel yearly in caskets. And traditional cemeteries use concrete vaults in order to make mowing the grass easier (there are over 3 billion pounds of concrete poured in the US every year for these..plus another 28 million pounds of steel to reinforce them in addition to the steel already buried in the caskets). Then there's all that embalming fluid as well...
So...no. Being buried in a traditional cemetery in a regular coffin isn't very environmentally friendly. Buuuut I'm getting off topic, so I'll shush about death now.
Sorry, I was talking about here in England... Did you know that you can get a Soil Association Approved coffin for the same price as a non Soil Assosiation coffin, you just have to ask?
Incase you don't know who they are (although I'm sure you do) The Soil Association are a bunch of people who say if things are grown organically or not. They are very strict about impact on environment etc etc
Incase you don't know who they are (although I'm sure you do) The Soil Association are a bunch of people who say if things are grown organically or not. They are very strict about impact on environment etc etc
You may find that these face transplants are not needed if this technique developed enough.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1766333,00.html
As for if they would look like your family member, that is a possiblity. But it's like walking down the street and seeing someone that looks like your friend ...but there not. You don't just take in the face when you see someone, you take in there clothes, they way they walk ect.
And if it gives these people a life again then i'm all for it.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1766333,00.html
As for if they would look like your family member, that is a possiblity. But it's like walking down the street and seeing someone that looks like your friend ...but there not. You don't just take in the face when you see someone, you take in there clothes, they way they walk ect.
And if it gives these people a life again then i'm all for it.
seems to me, that donating parts of youself, is not only conscienscious, but is more ecologically sound...
first of all, there's that embalming fluid, which can delay decomposition for years, and might contaminate soil and water... the less of you buried, the better. Then there's cremation, which produces an oily black smoke, which is obviously bad for the air... the less there is to cremate, the less pollution would be produced. There may even be an energy issue, here... does it cost less to crematea few pounds of tissue, than an entire body? common sense would say yes, but then, again, wouldn't cost the same to heat an entire cremation chamber regardless of what's in it? Hmmm.
and, if face transplants become common, eventually, substitutes will be made for donated skin... already, they are working with plastics that can integrate with living tissue, and hold such tissue in place until it grows in. They're even working with plastic matrices that will slowly dissolve, allowing the grafted skin to gradually take over for it. It may indeed, become possible to order a new face, without resorting to cadavers. a combination of plastic surgery and artificialy grown tissue grafts could be used to give you just about any 'look' you want... it might even be possible one day to reassign ethnicity. Talk about your scary thoughts... we're getting into Twilight Zone territory, here. And it isn't a matter of 'if', but 'when', and the 'when' is bearing down on us...
What will this mean? Ultimately, laws will have to be put in place, similar to laws to limit name changes today. These laws will, if enforced properly, keep felons from from changing their appearance to elude the law. But, of course, once the technology is perfected, there will be places and doctors who will do the work for the apprpriate fees. Imagine the business such doctors could do in dictatorships. Dictators already employ doubles, but imagine their being able to create duplicates, right down to the fingerprints (Cause, you know, fingerprints will be the next thing to be reassigned and/or repaired...).
In conjunction with computer Generated graphics, which are advancing with each new CGI movie, we will one day need forenzic teams, to tell truth from lies, and one person for another...
on a more fascitious note: Do you suppose that this is why the grey aliens all look alike? They are so advanced, they've taken this technology to it's ultimate extreme?
first of all, there's that embalming fluid, which can delay decomposition for years, and might contaminate soil and water... the less of you buried, the better. Then there's cremation, which produces an oily black smoke, which is obviously bad for the air... the less there is to cremate, the less pollution would be produced. There may even be an energy issue, here... does it cost less to crematea few pounds of tissue, than an entire body? common sense would say yes, but then, again, wouldn't cost the same to heat an entire cremation chamber regardless of what's in it? Hmmm.
and, if face transplants become common, eventually, substitutes will be made for donated skin... already, they are working with plastics that can integrate with living tissue, and hold such tissue in place until it grows in. They're even working with plastic matrices that will slowly dissolve, allowing the grafted skin to gradually take over for it. It may indeed, become possible to order a new face, without resorting to cadavers. a combination of plastic surgery and artificialy grown tissue grafts could be used to give you just about any 'look' you want... it might even be possible one day to reassign ethnicity. Talk about your scary thoughts... we're getting into Twilight Zone territory, here. And it isn't a matter of 'if', but 'when', and the 'when' is bearing down on us...
What will this mean? Ultimately, laws will have to be put in place, similar to laws to limit name changes today. These laws will, if enforced properly, keep felons from from changing their appearance to elude the law. But, of course, once the technology is perfected, there will be places and doctors who will do the work for the apprpriate fees. Imagine the business such doctors could do in dictatorships. Dictators already employ doubles, but imagine their being able to create duplicates, right down to the fingerprints (Cause, you know, fingerprints will be the next thing to be reassigned and/or repaired...).
In conjunction with computer Generated graphics, which are advancing with each new CGI movie, we will one day need forenzic teams, to tell truth from lies, and one person for another...
on a more fascitious note: Do you suppose that this is why the grey aliens all look alike? They are so advanced, they've taken this technology to it's ultimate extreme?
The doctors can have whatever they want from me once I'm dead. And I'd like what's left to be crispyfied, thanks.
Anyone here read Stiff? It's fascinating. If you like reading about cadavers. Their lives are more interesting than you'd think, for being dead and all.
I think that any transplant that can improve someone's quality of life is worth trying. And let's face (hardy har har) it, you don't see yourself that often. Other people do. So if your face is a bit different than it used to be, well, you don't have to see it all that often, do you? It just makes interacting with people in a very judgemental society easier.
Anyone here read Stiff? It's fascinating. If you like reading about cadavers. Their lives are more interesting than you'd think, for being dead and all.
I think that any transplant that can improve someone's quality of life is worth trying. And let's face (hardy har har) it, you don't see yourself that often. Other people do. So if your face is a bit different than it used to be, well, you don't have to see it all that often, do you? It just makes interacting with people in a very judgemental society easier.
(Just to be anal here- you don't have to be embalmed, it's only if you're going to be hanging around for a while, being seen etc etc)
I do agree though, if someone could have whatever bits of your body, it certainly would be more ecological. And whats left could be used for science.
I do agree though, if someone could have whatever bits of your body, it certainly would be more ecological. And whats left could be used for science.
Who needs organ and skin grafts when you have THIS!
Longevity vaccine anyone? Extended lifespans, regenerating limbs, no scarring, regrowing organs... and in MAMMALS?!?!
Simply wow.
Longevity vaccine anyone? Extended lifespans, regenerating limbs, no scarring, regrowing organs... and in MAMMALS?!?!
Simply wow.
And when my friend just spent an hour arguing that healing abilities like Wolverine's (from X-Men, if you haven't seen it) will never exist. Timing is everything.
It would be great if the scientists learn how to apply this to humans. It could really help people with a lot of different medical problems. Regenerating nerves and organs could cure a lot of dangerous conditions and injuries.
Timing is everything. It would be great if the scientists learn how to apply this to humans. It could really help people with a lot of different medical problems. Regenerating nerves and organs could cure a lot of dangerous conditions and injuries.
This is a wonderful idea, especially that it is inheritable, and apparently a dominant trait. Within ten more generations of humans we may see the presence of super-people.
I bugsy adamantine skeleton and retractable claws!
Weeee!
Weeee!
Just as soon as we figure out how to make unbreakable adamantite skeletons, Wolverine will show up. Yep. Any day now...
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