In Germany, incest is illegal (hence the thread)- I presumed that was why their kids had been put into care, just as they would have been if the parents were drug users, negligent (sp?) or abusive. I'm not sure why their fourth child is still with them, when the others have been taken away.

It did say three of the four children were born with real problems, and only one turned out normal, so maybe thats why.

"Normal kid, you stay here. We're taking these screwed up kids elsewhere."

(in German, presumably)

lol!

i think incest is gross and wrong but the laws were bought in to stop interbreeding of families.
now we have all kinds of contraception i dont see why family (if they really have to ) cant have sex with each other if they use protection, but having children should not be allowed in my opinion.

i don't think it should be legalised, if the couple have children, then child might be disabled in some way because of the incest and even if it wasn't, if it went to school and people found out, it would definitely get bullied...

Question....is the reason we don't do it only because we have been socially conditioned to find it unacceptable?? Personally, the thought of sleeping with any of my family members makes me want to gip!

If I remember correctly, I have read that there is, in most species, an instinctual desire to not mate with siblings, parents, or offspring. The reasoning being that those individuals who did desire to mate with family had a slightly higher chance of genetic problems, and so over the course of millions of years, species had evolved to prefer mates who were not close family members.

*points to her previous post*

*nods emphatically*

The Piraha tribe in the Amazon only have words for Mother/ Father/ Sister/ Brother/ Son/ Daughter- as those are the only family ties they need to keep track of. Cousins? You can have kids with them! Grandparents? Them too.

Heh.
GILF.

More exactly, it's related to the population at the time. Animals will reproduce with siblings/parents if isolated with them for long enough. Same like certain species of mollusc. They will mate with themself eventually (since they have both female and male reproductive organs) if they reach an old enough age having never mated.

Actually, population size is only one of the determining factors of the decision whether to mate asexually (which, btw, is considered something different than inbreeding because inbreeding individuals are assumed to be only sexually breeding species, and therefore are actually performing something -relatively- detrimental to the population.) There's also a higher rate of asexually produced offspring when there's a low risk of parasitism and a low pressure from natural selection to co-evolve with a predator. But again, that's asexuality, not inbreeding.

Anyway, I believe what you're trying to describe is the Founder Effect, which was named after species observed "founding" a new territory. This is actually how many new populations are formed.

In a way, both of you are right. Essentially, it's akin to: given the choice of mating with a family member or a non-family member, I'll choose the non-family member because it'll improve the genetic quality of my offspring- as opposed to: given the choice of mating with a family member or not mating at all, I'll choose to mate with a family member because at least then my genes will still be passed down generations.

*it should be noted (lest my prof come here and bitchslap me) that I do not intend evolution to imply purpose. It just happens to be what works best.*

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I do not belive in Incest that involves any child and I would report this to the police, However why should should incest between consenting ADULTS over 30 years old not be legel?

I am involved in a relationship with a very mature lady that likes us to have a FANTASY incest relation ship in our love life, do other members have this type of relationship?

Your views please and I am sorry if any one is offened, No offence is ment or intended and yes I am fully aware of the damage that forced incest has caused to many young people.

Regards to all

Mx

Why over 30? If you're gonna make something legal make it legal for all legal adults. If it has to do with the fact that it's harder (I think?) for women to get pregnant when they're older, that's not much help, 'cause (again I think, trying to remember stuff from school...) it just increases the chance of the kid having down syndrome.

Huh. Well there's an interesting first post. Nice to meet you too.

No, I've definitely never been involved in a relationship like that, Mx. Such fantasies are most likely harmless, as far as I'm concerned, but not my thing and would probably send me packing.

I also have to wonder why you specified adults over 30. Is it because the parents in the original article were that age (can't remember or be bothered to check if it mentioned their ages), or do you really think that should be the cut-off point?

Patrick was 30 and Susan was 22.

I just consider that by 30 years old then the people involved have decided there own way of life and decided that they want an incest relationship, and they are old enough not to be put under pressure for this type of relationship.
All can take birth control that is up to them.

After all if we read the book we all discended from just Two people and how many people were left after the great flood, were did we all come from?

Incest has always been part of life and it is only society that has said it is wrong, I understand that in some countries that Adult incest is legal, are these countries more enlighnted?

Once again I must say that I do not support child incest or forced incest relationships.
Regards
Mx

But... how many people who secretly want to sexually abuse a minor who is related to them, but don't because of the sheer fear of being caught in a society which seems to abhor incest would be able to excuse it to themselves by looking at the legalised incest laws. Um. I'm not sure how to explain this thought, but I've rationalised doing various illegal or just "against the rules" things by the simple principle of "LALALALA IF I JUST PAY ATTENTION TO ONE PART OF THE RULES AND RATIONALISE ALL THE OTHER FACTORS I'M NOT DOING ANYTHING WRONG...". I'm not really sure which way my feelings on this issue go as a whole, but just from that single abuse point of view, I can see people going to themselves "Oh, well, the incest part is legal and the minor was consenting *really*, they *do* love me, so even if other people don't understand, I'm not doing anything *wrong*..."

QUOTE (Daria @ Mar 9 2007, 06:15 PM)

Cand, do you call Ste, Ste? I can't Monty Steve simply for the fact that I wouldn't be able to deal calling him the same name as my dad.
(Yes there are two many Steves in the world).

Two many, eh?

I feel like I should be open minded and tolerant about this, and truth be told, I wouldn't have a problem with a healthy relationship between two people who were related in the grand scheme of things. It would take me a while to get used to the idea though.

And on the topic of children: Quite simply, I wouldn't stop two disabled people from having children if they could look after them and provide a reasonable living environment, despite the fact the children would be more likely to be disabled. I wouldn't support abortion of a child who was suspected to be disabled in the womb. Why on earth would I stop two "healthy" (sorry, don't know the PC wording) people having a child they could support, regardless of if they would be disabled?

And if that fails, they can always adopt - plenty of abandoned chinese babies out there



Dude, birth control should be up to the people in ANY sexual relationship.

edit: Haha, neat, double post turns into one huge post

Thank you all for your replies, subject closed

Mx

... Whut?

Forget to type something there MX?

New to this site and have skimmed through this posting, but have a question to pose. If there is no issue about pregnacy and children,when both parties are mature in years is incest accepted
My wife is 51 and her brother is 50 and alongside other problems in his life is stuck in a sexless marriage. We have helped her brother out in other ways, money etc, and I jokingly said that maybe she could help her bother out in bed. My wife was ok with the suggestion and got turned on with the thought, the only obection she raised was that it was not allowed !! Not really a subject to raise with friends so this forum may be the answer
Has anyone on this forum been in a similar situation - I am ok with my wife helping her brother in this and she has spoken about it to me and gets truned on at the thought, we have swapped with others and have occassonal treesomes with a close male friend. We would love to hear comments and views from others

As long as you add "consenting" to that, then for me, the short answer is yes.

As for your situation in particular, then I wouldn't see anything particularly wrong with that, as long as everyone involved is clear on what is and is not happening, and is totally okay with it. You say you've tried threesomes before, so you've presumably dealt with any (if there were any) jealousy and possessiveness issues and so on.

My only concern would be that your wife's brother is still married, even though isn't having sex with his wife. Unless his wife was fully informed and agreeable to it, then I'd say it wasn't really okay from that sense.

There is the legal issue - despite the children-issue being dealt with, I believe it's still against the law. The law isn't always logical, but it's always worth bearing in mind.

Ignoring that point for a moment, I'd be very cautious in that situation. Sex is not regarded as being one of the areas in which humans are known for their rationality, and families are a similar field. Mixing the two could be very emotionally difficult. I'd like to think that everyone could act like mature adults having fun together, but life rarely is that easy.

With children out of the equation, complete consent, and everyone feeling very positive about the idea, healthily open communication, and not paying any attention to the law, then I guess there aren't any reasonable grounds for objection, but that's quite a lot of things to get right before going ahead (and there's not much you can do about the legal issues).

I was at my Greatgrandma's 90th birthday party yesterday and realized something. My mother's first cousin has married her aunt. A real life example, I suppose. Not quite brother and sister, but there you go.

Yep, Mata, incest is still illegal.

I think that it should stay illegal, I'm not just trying to be against the people doing it, but if they have children then there is a high possibility of the baby having a disibility and then there is someone living a life that could be healthy if only the parent had had the baby with another man or woman.

I belive the kasbah has just said that kinda thing above me ^^ (unless i finish my post before he does lmao)

I dont think it should be legal to marry sisrter/brothers cousins it may not be as bad but i personaly find it disturbing.

In this case and many others when they met randomly and had never known that they were related its not that bad but if they had grown up together i would have been completely against it.

(am i making sense to anyone?) lol

I'm sure that there have been cases of children separated at birth who have accidentally met later and had children together. I doubt there have been any prosecutions for those circumstances, but incest with prior knowledge of the situation is against the law. Don't forget that incest laws are also there to prevent parent/child relationships.

From the biological perspective, even if children are not immediately disabled, they stand a far greater risk of genetic problems that may cause severe problems later in life, mental difficulties, and their children have an increased risk of genetic problems too.

Hi i just joined up.

[edited]

[b] make incest legal....NOW

Sorry Mummalovr, but what you wrote there, if taken at face value, is a criminal offence. This is a public forum, and you should be aware that anything you post here is readable by anyone in the world with an internet connection. You mentioned an area, and your IP address is recorded when you post on here. If an agency were to search for certain keywords and find your post then I would be obliged to give your IP address to them, which would probably result in criminal proceedings against your family and potentially you too. For the purposes of discretion I have decided to work on the assumption that you were writing a fictional 'devil's advocate' view of incest that supports your view to make it legal, rather than revealing events that would see you prosecuted if they were to be investigated. You sound happy with the (hypothetical) situation, but I would advise to you bear in mind that there is no such thing as anonymous posting on the internet.

You clearly support legalisation of incest. Would you argue that all incest should be legal, or do you see valid restrictions on the law?

(Also the rules of this forum, that you agreed to when you joined, clearly state that there should be no swearing, so please moderate your language.)