Oh, bum. I didn't even realise Eff-You was signed in when I posted that. So yes, that was me.

Aaaand once again, caring about you, the total stranger, on the internet is not my strong point.

Aaaand Wookiee's flippant dismissal of the legitimacy of empathising with anyone he's never physically met has caused him to be suspended for a year. If you wish to discuss this decision then please either email me or start a topic, but keep this thread about the smoking ban.

On which subject, I was in a pub earlier and the barman tells me that business is booming since the ban came into place, so I think that concerns about pubs going out of business might have been slightly over-stated, but it is early days yet so we'll have to wait until the novelty wears off. It would be interesting to see how village pubs are faring after the ban - they are very different in their range of customers from the city pub that I was in.

It was very strange to be in a pub and to not have the usual miasma hanging in the air. Do you think that they'll stop painting walls yellowy-orange now they don't have to hide the nicotine stains?

Amusingly a few groups have sprung up here and there cmoplaining that since the smoking ban hit night clubs have started smelling of really bad body odour that was unnoticable with cigerette fumes covering it. I was amused.

But from the singular time I have been out to a bar since the ban it was certainly nice to not have the cigerette haze for a change.

Indeed, my first experience of post-smoking ban pubs was indeed good. For one thing it wasn't as crowded inside because everyone was smooshed out on the patio.

I heard of people worrying about how clubs would smell without the smoke covering the BO, I think someone was arguing about how if they fill the place with air freshener then they're still going to give you cancer... maybe they should have deodorant dispensers in the toilets, think of the sponsorship opportunities!!

My first experience of post-smoking ban england was walking into the bus shelter outside the Chicago Rock Cafe and immediately walking out again coughing. There was no-one smoking in it at the time, but it stank because there's no air-circulation and there was a smog in there from the amount of people who smoked in there the previous night.

But I was in a pub on thursday night, and it was a noticeably nicer atmosphere, so that's better at least.

You have absolutely no sense of humour at all! I am being silly. kthxbi!

Anyway! I don't go to pubs often, but I do live next door to one, which is situated right slap bang in the middle of a residential area. The noise coming out of there is shocking, because everyone's outside smoking. It's very annoying.



Hold on... I thought you told him to stick to Issues and stay out of Personal Concerns? Dammit, he just can't win!

That's a good point. I'd not thought about residential pubs and the additional noise to the neighbourhood, I guess that proves that smokers really are anti-social Then again, given a few months it'll be getting colder and so the cigarette breaks are going to be a lot faster. Less chat, more smoking, so the noise will go down then.

[As for the Wookiee decision, I've explained in PMs to him precisely why I've made this decision, which no doubt you've had the chance to read. If you want to discuss that decision publicly then by all means copy and paste the messages into a new thread or PM me, in the meantime please keep this thread about smoking.]

In an effort to lighten this thread to a more silly level, I shall direct your attentions to here. It would appear some people in the lands of weebl and bob have unearthed an amazing article of times gone by! Amazing stuff!

Since the ban came into place at least 6 people I know of have announced they are quitting smoking. "Not because of the ban though..."!

Funnily enough, the chef at work who claims to have smoked for 40 years (excluding 6 months last year...and possibly other times when he's broke), again not because of the ban, but because he doesn't like being told he can't do something....it's sorta like rebellion in a conformist sort of way....

I can't speak for all pubs, but where I work, we just had the busiest weekend of the year or there abouts. Granted the Sunday was largely due to the Tour De France passing through town, Saturday however can't be attributed to anything other than it being Saturday.

Oh, I found these, for smokers on cold days.

The ban has really made a difference... It's selfish but I enjoy going out more now. No struggling to breathe in poorly ventilated nightclubs, no clothes that smell of ash. But there are far less lighters for me to 'acquire' and the lack of fog means it's easier to see just how damned pale I am.

The solution is easy: go to darker clubs. In the blackness everyone looks equally (un)pale.

Pat: You scare me. Why do you have a link to Possum fur nipple warmers?

I want the blue ones.

I was in Brick Lane with Mr T at the weekend, and we were lamenting about the Shisha Bars. Everyone looks a leetle silly perched outside with their Hookahs. I think they should be exempt because A- it is a cultural thing and not just smoking and B- if you go into a shisha bar, you kind of know what you're getting yourself in for.

I once watched my mum light a tampon when she was giving up. She's terribly classy...

I'd not noticed the ban until I came here and seen the mass of self satisfied non - smokers giving an opinion. I'm annoyed about this but I'm not quite sure why right now.

I think it's because we don't have fully smoking pubs. Some poeple who don't drink alcohol go to pubs; I don't see an abolishment of alcohol - which kills a serious amount of people.

I suppose you pick and choose your battles.

As much as I'd miss alcohol, there's a bloody good case to made for banning it! On a slightly more feasible note, I think a sensible ban would be on 'import strength' larger such as Stella or Kronenburg. People could still drink and get drunk, but it would take a few pints more to get the same amount of alcohol in them, which takes more time and more money - the likely result would be that people can still get drunk, but likely wouldn't get as drunk. I'm not sure if there's a downside to that plan.

Also, someone drinking a pint isn't directly affecting your health. Someone lights up next to you and it does affect you.

NB I say directly, I know there could be a fight/ drain on the NHS for alcoholism etc etc.

The Man should just ban fun & good times. That way no-one would get hurt!

Oddly enough, my sister sent me the link, she was probably was bored at work and, I suspect, looking for somewhere to purchase some Ugg boots.

The difference between drinking and smoking is fairly substancial, well I can think of three key differences. First off, alcohol in moderation is actually beneficial to your health, taking it to excess is where the danger lies. Second of all, (and unless I've gotten something very wrong) the addiction to smoking is a chemical one, where an addiction to alcohol is largely psychological. Finally, and this is the important one, drinking directly affects you, and only you. You can't get liver disease from passive drinking.

Although it's not that simple, is it? Alcohol abuse affects the lives of everyone around the person, it can result in instant deaths (through drunk driving or violence) in a way that smoking rarely does. Don't get me wrong, I love alcohol, it's my single vice really, but having worked in the trade for a five years I also know how nasty it can be too.

I really do think that banning export strength larger would be a big step towards cutting down the unhealthy attitude to alcohol that we have in this country. When I've been in other countries I've always been astonished by the way they go drinking: it's relaxed, it's sedate, they don't drink to get drunk, they drink to loosen up a little and that's enough. You just don't see that over here. This country needs to relearn that moderate drinking is usually a lot more fun than getting paralytic!

Aye.. am I the only person that sometimes gets a little embaressed of other english people while abroad themselves? I keep wanting to say, "yeah I'm from England, but I'm not like them!" For fear of people worrying about me groping everyone in arms length or headbutting small children.

Both alcohol and smoking affects other people, but should both be banned in public places?

Well there's already laws and legislation to stop alcohol from affecting other people. Last I heard drink driving was a crime, assaulting people while drunk is a crime, urinating in public or vandalising while under the influence is punishable, etc etc etc. So what's the problem?

Passive drinking problems are already punishable. The difference is that alcohol only affects others if taken to excess and someone looses all sense of control. If someone is having a quiet pint next to you they aren't doing anything harmful to you, the same can not be said for smoking.

You can't paint both with the same brush.

Here's how alcohol never directly affects people:

-Relying on a neighbour to look after your daughter because of fears of what will happen when your partner gets back.
- Breast feeding your baby for as long as you could because your father would rather buy alcohol over food himself or his partner and kid.
- For no apparent reason having a push chair thrown at you as you stand besides your daughter who is in her cot and that push chair missing your 9 month old by an inch.
- From being impressed that your child is speaking and saying words at 6 months, a bit advanced for her age to have her stopping at 9 months and not speaking again until the alcoholic has been out of her life for some time.
- Your door being smashed in after you've tried to kick him out, or say won't let him in because he's drunk.
- Having to run with your baby in your arms, bare foot to the local police station so that you can ask them to check if he is still in the home, because you need to go back to collect stuff, but are too scared to do it if he is still there.
- Being beaten for your birthday.
- Having a knife held to your neck.
- Being kicked in the belly once he knew you were pregnant and subsequently miscarrying.
- Having your glasses smashed so you can't see.
- Your dog, Army, being thrown against the wall because he is barking & trying to protect you as your partner trys to attack you after having come back from the pub.
- Your neighbours' having <i>their</i> doors smashed because he wanted to get at you.
- Cut throat razor to your neck because you don't want to take him back- wondering if it's the last thing you will ever see.
- Getting your benefit books flushed down the toilet so that you have no money to go anywhere - to leave.
- Spending your maternity benefit on booze whilst you are in hospital at 6 and a half months gestation.

I was never directly the target of my alcoholic father's abusive and violent behavior towards my mother, it was more of the case that, as my mother put it: He'd never think of the consequences of my being harmed when he went to attack her. But I was witness to it and it did affect me. My mother uses the word 'evil' to describe what happened to him after he'd had a drink. He primarily drank Skull, Stella (AKA Wife Beater) and vodka (Not knowing that much about lagers and beers, not sure if Skull fits in with what you were saying, Mata). He might of just stuck to vodka if there was no import larger, might of just sold more of my mother's belongings to pay for more quantities of lower ABV vol (I think that's how the strength of booze is measured?) to get pissed on.

Some people drink to get a bit merry and loose some inhibitions, some people to forget and become another person all together. Some drink and fall asleep, some become so pugnacious they are unrecognisable to people who know them sober. Some drive and get home okay, some drive into pedestrians. Some get alcohol related diseases, some get treatment for injuries sustained whilst under the influence of alcohol or because of injures received from a drunk.

I do drink. I'm quite a liker of cider, or those fruity Belgium beers, then again a bit of Green Ginger Wine doesn't go a mis. Nor does this Estonian spirit that smells like fruit cake. Daria has introduced me to a nice Somerset cider. But I always have a fear in the back of my mind about becoming the drunk monster that my dad was. Moderation, and knowing your own limit. -Knowing what amounts of alcohol affect you and your behavior in what ways, and then ensuring you don't go over your own limit. Witless was telling me the other day (to paraphrase) that alcohol removes reason, and leave emotions. Some people become in love with everyone (we all know the drunken mate who has come up, put their arm around you and said 'I love you, man. I mean like, I really do. You're like my best friend and I love you. You know that'.

Sure, I know not every drinker will turn abusive after a pint or 2 and a couple of shots, not to forget that cocktail pitcher they shared, but some do. Not all go home to take it out on their spouses, some pick on random strangers. Or find petty reasons such as 'lifestyle', skin colour or football team support a reason.

I kinda agree with Mata, that there is an unhealthy attitude towards alcohol in this country (not shared by all but ->). But where I think it's so the norm to go and get bladdered at the weekend, or have a couple of pints/ cans after work, people equate 'norm' with 'acceptable' 'okay to do', and assume that if others are doing it, they can do it to the same extent.

This post might be a bit rambley and irrelevant. I've written it because I'm angered to read that some people on this forum believe that alcohol only ever 'directly' affects the drinker, or NHS money on treating alcohol related diseases, and I want to give anecdotal evidence as to how I've known alcohol to affect the person who wasn't drinking it. (EDITED TO ADD THIS ONCE SENTENCE FOR CLARITY:)Or to put it another way, (way I read it, correct me if I misinterpreted) the inference that alcohol only has the potentiality to seriously affect the drinker, peeved me.


On topic, I've only been to a pub once since the ban, and we sat outside anyways as it was sunny.



I kinda agree with that bit. Just y'know not knowing what happens once that person leaves the pub. -Which isn't to say s/he'l drive back and kick the dog.

Not gonna quote everyone that's said alcohol effects people other than the one that doesn't drink. Of course it does but like calantyr said.. alcoholics who are abusive are already breaking the law, even if we put controls on drinking, those alcoholics aren't going to suddenly become moral and stop breaking the law.

The smoking ban was put in place to stop it being perfectly within people's rights to fill rooms of non smokers with smoke in public areas. A law stopping drinking in public places probably wouldn't stop an abusive alcoholic from being abusive.. since he wasn't within his rights to do so in the first place.

Regardless of whether or not you agree with the smoking ban, a ban on drinking wouldn't accomplish the same thing that a smoking ban is "trying" to accomplish, (whether or not it accomplishes anything will yet to be seen).

I don't fully agree with the smoking ban, but I like it better like it is now. I am additionally refusing to be ashamed of enjoying my nights out more now. As if it is some how wrong to feel better about the way things are now. I can't imagine the people against the smoking ban would feel any less happy than I do now if the ban were reversed.

Good post, thanks for sharing it, and I agree to your points.

But in reply to this part you could retort in the same vein to smoking. Smoking may be banned in public places, but what is to stop parents going back to their home and smoking in front of babies or sick relatives?

Unfortunately there needs to be a cut-off point between freedom and regulation, the hard point is deciding where.... personally I couldn't care less about people I know smoking in my presence (hell, all my ex's have been smokers) but when it becomes a public burden, i.e. workers rights?

Bit of a toughie.

I haven't smoked since 2nd July which was actually my quit date so to all who thought otherwise!

I'm also coping quite well considering my stressful life right now although I do now drink several glasses of wine a day but that's normal right?!

I was thinking the other day that I didn't want to go out to the pub with my mate coz I'd find it a struggle not smoking and then I remembered the ban and grinned!

Yay Pixie

Keep it up Sam.

I am definitely looking forward to going out in London and not stinking of smoke afterwards. I went to a club last weekend and it was lovely to not have to air the PVC trousers for days afterwards to get rid of the smoke smell!

I am against smoking, partly because of my athsma. But I usually have a "both sides of the arguement" type of mind. I can see where smokers are coming from that they can't smoke and maybe they think that is against their rights. But do you really have the right to poison other peoples lungs because they are having a stressful day, but you can always go to a counsellor, but unfortunately I can't just go to a doctor and get magically healed of lung problems. I'm only really showing some of my views onj this, but I did write a 918 word essay on it, I'm not going to put it up on this as it will just be ignored, but if anyone wants to read it, PM me and I'll PM it to you.

Necroposting


The act of posting in a forum thread that is too old to matter any more, or has served it's purpose.