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Novander
I ordered an Xbox 360 today, which should arrive first thing tomorrow morning. I've got Assassin's Creed, which was reason number 1 for buying it, and I've ordered Gears of War. Eventually I'll get Fable: The Lost Chapters and if I enjoy it, then Fable 2 when it's released.

Games are expensive and I'm not looking to spend any more massive amounts of money in the near future, so I'd like just a small library of 360 games. Which ones would you guys say are the essential buys?

A few notes: I like RPGs, I like action adventure, I like storylines I can get really involved in. I've already completed Oblivion on the PC and I loved it but I don't want to buy it for the 360.

I don't like First Person Shooters. No Halo or Call of Duty for me, thanks. They're great on a PC with a keyboard and a mouse, but I don't like them with console controllers.

I've played and enjoyed Guitar Hero, but I can easily live without it. Air Guitar and some imagination is enough for me; I know I'm a rock god in disguise, I don't need microsoft to confirm it.
moop
Crackdown is supposed to be good and BioShock is cool (though it should be played on a PC - first person games suck with joypads!) but the 'walk across the map, now walk back, grab an item and come back' mechanics get boring approximately 3/4 of the way through - until that point it's great!

Scene It is quite fun though more of a party game. The best thing about it is that the controllers (infra-red buzzers) actually have their colour embedded into them so the green player is automagically green on screen and so on.

Overlord sounds like a lot of fun too and I've heard good things about Viva Pinata.

I don't own a 360 so I'm just going on what I've played at work which is a bit limited. Finally, get the Wii version of the Simpsons game, not the 360 one. >_>
Daria
ohmy.gif Nov, you are naughty. I thought I had convinced you that paying bills was more important than playing games?
Novander
I have spent all day playing Assassin's Creed. I was gonna say some rude words about paying bills, but then I remembered where I am.

And now I am thinking about 12th Century Jerusalem, which is where I'd rather be.
michael1384
Viva pinata is the strangest game ever.

Yet it's strangly addictive...
Mata
So far, only two games have been anything significantly different/more advanced than previous-generation games. Crackdown, and Bioshock. The latter is a FPS, but a bit more sedate than your average one, so you might still be okay with it. Crackdown is the logical extension of the GTA idea if you replaced hip hop with cyberpunk. It was a game waiting to be made, and fortunately they did a good job.

The best thing available on the current-gen consoles at the moment is The Orange Box, but if you don't like FPS games you are once again stumped.

Everything this year seems to either be FPS or just a bit disappointing (or both: Halo 3, I'm looking at you). The 360 is two years old now and it's still not really got anything that is particularly essential. The PS3 is only one year old and has a smattering of interesting titles. The Wii is a typical Nintendo machine - games by Nintendo are generally hailed as amazing, everything made by other developers is fair to middling, or worse.

Burnout Paradise is very good indeed, but you'll have to wait until the end of January for that one. The PS3 version looks ever-so-slightly better, and the online stuff works more slickly on the PS3 too (yep, Xbox Live is actually a pain in the butt for some developers getting their games online the way they want). This said, the 360 version is also very good.

New-gen games have as yet to really impress me. Either I've got really cynical (which is possible) or there are few games this year that have really excelled beyond previous gen games.

BTW, a superb resource for games reviews (and all other entertainment media) is http://www.metacritic.com . The games industry swears by it, but it is occasionally prone to reflect PR hype with really big releases, so Gears Of War (which is good, but not that good) gets nearly the same as The Orange Box. Take it with a pinch of salt and it's a really good guide.
michael1384
Bioshock is a good game but it's far too short.
Mata
I guess that depends how you play it. It took me a long time, but I'm pretty sure I searched every single thing in the game and listened to every recording. I'll probably go through it again, playing it the other way and I expect it will be a lot faster to go through. I guess it's the difference between finishing a game and completing it.
Hyperion
On a related note; it seems that you're saying the PS3 is better - My better-at-gaming half wants a 360. He loves Halo... Was it really that disappointing, and is there a comparable/better FPS on the PS3?

I, of course, prefer the playstation period. But I'm a slut for used PS1/PS2 games, I've never even touched a PS3.
Novander
The BioShock demo didn't run properly on my PC, so the full version certainly won't. At least, not to any graphically acceptable degree, and I know I won't be upgrading any time soon. Well, as long as StarCraft II runs, I won't be upgrading any time soon. Crackdown sounds pretty good. Orange Box is something I can get on the PC.

---

Without spoiling the plot, here's my opinions on Assassin's Creed

The game is beautiful. I mean seriously visually stunning. You play an Assassin in the holy land during the Third Crusade. Assassin with a capital A because you're one step beyond hashashins, part of an order dedicated to keeping peace in the middle east by killing anyone who threatens it. And apparently it was here that Parkour was invented. I knew it was too cool to come from France.

The free-running is probably one of the best things about the game. Combat gets a bit repetitive after a while, though the counter-attacks look impressive enough to keep it interesting longer than it maybe should. Certainly I eventually chose to run rather than fight if I had five or six guards after me, just because charging through the streets and leaping from rooftop to rooftop while being pursued is more fun.

I suppose repetition is its biggest flaw. You've got nine targets to assassinate, and for each one you have to first investigate your target through pickpocketing, eavesdropping or interrogating citizens of the city connected to them. After that you've got a bunch of big fights against multiple opponents that you can't run from and like I said, combat just isn't as fun as it looks.

Actually, not just repetition. As you progress through the game, you get more health and more combat abilities, so fights get easier and easier. There's two ways the game tries to counter this: First, by adding more obstacles like drunks, madmen and beggars who push you around or get in your way when you try to walk past them. These guys just piss you off, they don't add to the fun at all. Even the most kind-hearted player will soon be tempted to just stab these guys so they don't disrupt your investigations. Secondly, later in the game the guards become more aware, and identify you quicker if you act in socially unacceptable ways (climbing up walls, knocking people over in crowds, drawing your sword and slicing someone open). Both of these things just slow the game down and detract from the awesome.

But despite its flaws, it's still a great game with a fun plot and plenty of awesome.
Hyperion
It's rather funny, a good friend of mine is dating one of the original programmers of AC... guy that works/is getting his Masters here at DSU. Of course, it could be BS. But it'd be cool, ne?
Mata
It's the animators on that game that the industry is going to be begging to recruit. It can teach silk a few things about how to be smooth.

I regard to the PS3 v.s 360 debate, here's a very brief version of my view on it:
  • the 360 has more good games
  • the 360 charges for online play
  • the 360 sounds like an aircraft taking off because the fans are so loud. All. The. Time. While. Playing. This defeats the point of next-gen audio technology, when you can't hear what's going on over the sound of the machine
  • the 360 is a real pain to get to stream things from your PC, and if you're like me you don't want to install all the official Microsoft software that you'll need to put on there to get it working (and even then they might change their mind without telling you and it'll stop working)
  • the 360 only streams video from your PC in .wmv format. It used to support .mp4, but Microsoft decided that they didn't want people using that so removed the feature. They deliberately removed something people were using, leaving an inferior option behind
  • the 360's hardware is of very dubious reliability. At work, no-one who bought an early 360 still has that machine
  • the 360 is cheaper by about £120, but online play costs £40 per year so you keep on paying for the use of your own machine over your own connection
  • the 360 doesn't come with a wireless adaptor, so that costs another £70 (US$140) if you don't happen to have it right next to your house's router
  • the 360's operating system is an iron fortress controlled by tyrannical overlords
    But...
  • the 360 has more good games
  • the PS3 is more powerful, so can do anything the 360 can if developers put the effort in
  • the PS3 doesn't charge for online play, but there aren't any games yet that really need it
  • the PS3 is damn near silent
  • the PS3 streams video and music easily with low-processor, easy to install, freeware such as TVersity
  • the PS3 currently only streams from your PC in .mp4 format, but that's a lot better than .wmv format. Sony recently made a deal so sometime it will start supporting .avi files too, so you won't have to convert downloaded episodes of TV shows to watch them stream wirelessly into your living room
  • the PS3 has an option that asks you if you'd like to install another operating system, y'know, if you fancy doing that. No hassle if you don't, but you can
  • the PS3 is more expensive, but with free online play after three years it becomes cheaper
  • the PS3 has wireless access built-in
  • the PS3 is more powerful, so can do anything the 360 can if developers put the effort in
    Therefore...
  • the 360 has more good games at the moment, but in a few years it'll be harder to judge
Having used both machines for nearly a year, on a daily basis mostly, I can say that if I ever have the choice of which system to buy a game on, I will always choose the PS3. It's just a friendlier system, and not paying for online access is lovely. £40 (US$80) per year to play games v.s free. I vote for 'free'.

But...
The 360 has more good games.
But...
Most games from now on are going to be released on both machines, so I'd pick the PS3.

If he loves Halo... Well, Halo 3 is a lot like Halo 1 and 2. Really. Nearly identical. And for me that was the problem. I've already bought those games, and Halo 2 was a bit dull. The online was okay if you found a freakish match where there wasn't a sleep deprived 13 year old on there who could head-shot you in 0.02 picoseconds from each respawn, but mostly it was just annoying.

There aren't any big challengers to Halo on the PS3 at the moment. Personally I enjoyed Resistance: Fall of Man a lot more than Halo 3, but not everyone shares that opinion. Like I say, the 360 does currently have better games, but my girlfriend and I watch downloaded American TV a few times a week on the 360, which is something that we couldn't do with the 360 because it was being a right pain in the butt for that kind of thing.

Frankly, I absolutely adore my PS3. It does everything that I want it to do. The 360 has so many things about it that could have been done better, but Microsoft don't seem interested in improving it. The PS3 is occasionally a bit uppity but the new system versions just keep getting better and better.
michael1384
I prefer the wii to both of the other consoles.
Mata
Why is that Michael?
michael1384
Free online service, great games (well some), um, full gamecube backwards compatibillity, the virtual console and the fabulous controlls!!!

Just can't wait for Nintendo to get its online arse into gear.
Mata
Interesting. I've not been very impressed with the controls or games so far. Zelda always bores me, and this one really sounds like it would do that again (as well as reportedly being slightly better on the GameCube), Wii Sports is good fun but limited, and that really only leaves Mario Galaxy. I've never been amazingly fussed about the Mario games either.

Isn't it great that the world has different people with different tastes smile.gif

One thing that really does interest me on the Wii is Wii Fit. Then again, the Playstation Eye can do all of the same things too, it just isn't... Yet. Wii Fit looks like a genuinely cool application, and I think that's going to sell bucket loads.
Novander
Zelda: Twilight Princess is one of the best games I've played, on console or PC. The controls are intuitive and it makes great use of the Wiimote. It's not graphically stunning but it doesn't need to be; Standard play is never dull and it's packed full of mini games so there's always something new to do. It's a shame nothing else for the Wii has lived up to it. (Though I've not tried Super Mario Galaxy yet, which has been getting good reviews all round I think. Metacritic lists it higher than Twilight Princess, but I don't see how it could be better.)
Mata
I've tried many Zeldas from the SNES onwards. I even finished the Windwaker, all the while convinced that soon the genius of these games would reveal themself and I would become as obsessed as the rest of the gaming world seems to be with them. It hasn't happened yet, and I've recently been meeting a lot more people who have the same feelings as me. They too always end up buying Zelda games, convinced that this will be the one that will make them realise what (they are told) they have been missing, and always end up feeling disappointed.

No more! I shall resist the yay-sayers this time! I'm not going to throw any more good money after bad! I shall not buy Twilight Princess! (Unless I have a go on someone else's one and it finally does convince me that they're not just really pedestrian adventures with rupees under every. Damn. Thing.)
candice
Wait. Wait wait WAIT.

Mata, you don't like Zelda OR Mario? I have never heard such a crazy thing. I don't think they have support groups for people like you, but maybe since you've met other like-minded people you should start one.

Cause you're all clearly suffering from some horrible, horrible INSANITY.

*ahem* Uh, yeah. It's totally great that there are different people with different tastes. Yup. biggrin.gif

Also, I'm pretty sure that there are more than three Wii games to choose from. tongue.gif SSX Blur is incredibly cheesy, but the controls are pretty cool and it surprised me by being fun. Kororinpa is good, although the later levels make me feel strangely dizzy. That's just my own issues with anything that moves the camera like it's going upside down, though. It didn't make moop feel that way. I loved Super Paper Mario, in spite of the very occasional upside-down thing. I don't care for Excite Truck or Red Steel, but moop liked them (he says that the controls for the latter suffered a bit because it was an early game, and the newer games seem to have gotten the hang of using the wiimote a lot better). Mercury Meltdown is okay, but not as good as Kororinpa. moop says Battalion Wars 2 sounds cool, though he hasn't played it (he says it's very battle zone, whatever that means). Hrm, what else do we have? Oh, Wii Play...but we only bought that for the extra controller. It's pretty bad. We haven't gotten our free copy of The Simpsons yet, but apparently the Wii and PS2 versions are better balanced than the 360, and the Wii version has extra minigames.

Wow, that rambled on longer than I intended. I kept thinking of more games. Anyway. Nov, I think that I would agree with whoever said that Mario Galaxies was better than Twilight Princess. It's really quite good.
Mata
Mario has always left me wondering when the game really starts. I run, I slide, I jump... And I finish. Even when Super Mario World came out on the SNES I just didn't get all the fuss. It was decent, solid platforming, and the secrets were cool, it just never really grabbed me. Likewise Mario Sunshine didn't rock my world.

I should point out that I've not played Mario 64, so I am prepared to be smacked around the head with the big fish of amazement when I finally get around to experiencing it, and apparently Mario Galaxies is similarly incredible, I just remain sceptical. Every big Nintendo 'classic' that I can think of since Super Mario Bros (which back 1986 I did think was incredible) has generally left me feeling a bit like I'm missing something that everyone else sees.

Oo, I take that back. The original F-Zero on the SNES was awesome, but I can't think of any others at the moment.
Mata
Ooo, VERY cool new thing coming to the PS3 - mods for Unreal Tournament 3 will be able to be run! This means that console owners finally won't be missing out on all the cool mods that people make, and about time too!

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2007/12/07/...chchchchaanges/
michael1384
QUOTE (Mata @ Dec 7 2007, 12:35 AM) *
Mario has always left me wondering when the game really starts. I run, I slide, I jump... And I finish. Even when Super Mario World came out on the SNES I just didn't get all the fuss. It was decent, solid platforming, and the secrets were cool, it just never really grabbed me. Likewise Mario Sunshine didn't rock my world.

I should point out that I've not played Mario 64, so I am prepared to be smacked around the head with the big fish of amazement when I finally get around to experiencing it, and apparently Mario Galaxies is similarly incredible, I just remain sceptical. Every big Nintendo 'classic' that I can think of since Super Mario Bros (which back 1986 I did think was incredible) has generally left me feeling a bit like I'm missing something that everyone else sees.

Oo, I take that back. The original F-Zero on the SNES was awesome, but I can't think of any others at the moment.


Mario sunshine was was nowhere near as good as mario64. It was a good game but it was missing something. What about starwing?
Mata
Starwing/Starfox was good, and I did play it quite a lot, but it was mostly for the secrets. Nintendo do good hidden secrets in their games. Somehow they always seem to lack excitement though. I don't know why. Maybe it's the general lack of challenge - they tend to feel like a level playing field. Weirdly though, it will all be very easy, then suddenly you'll find a 'this bit is for hardcore players' section which will be incredibly difficult. When things get tough they become annoying. I don't tend to find the games tricky, they veer from very easy to very tricky with nothing much in the middle.

I did enjoy Starwing, but it wouldn't count among the greatest games I've ever played.

Contra Spirits on the SNES - now that was a great game.

A lot of my best gaming memories from that era are all Megadrive titles, weird little games like Bonanza Brothers or Magical Flying Hat Turbo Adventure (yes, it really was called that, and for some bonkers reason it was reskinned in gloomy graveyard graphics and released as Decapattack in the west). Crackdown was a great two player game with lovely sprites and a good challenge in it too (nothing to do with the 360 game by the same name). Mickey's Castle of Illusion was fantastic. Even the Megadrive version of Populous kept me going for many, many hours!

It's not just Mario and Zelda - I was never as in awe of the original Sonic games as it seemed I should be. They were good, solid games, but again they lacked that spark that made them truly great. They had nice graphics and music though!
michael1384
I have Lylat wars/Starfox64. Andross is a stereotypical bad guy.
"I've been waiting for you star fox"
"You know that I control the galaxy"
"Those tin cans are no match for me!"

Otherwise its a good game.
QUOTE (Novander @ Dec 6 2007, 12:41 AM) *
Zelda: Twilight Princess is one of the best games I've played, on console or PC. The controls are intuitive and it makes great use of the Wiimote. It's not graphically stunning but it doesn't need to be; Standard play is never dull and it's packed full of mini games so there's always something new to do. It's a shame nothing else for the Wii has lived up to it. (Though I've not tried Super Mario Galaxy yet, which has been getting good reviews all round I think. Metacritic lists it higher than Twilight Princess, but I don't see how it could be better.)


I have Mario galaxy. One of the best games i've ever played. Reason? Special gravity!
Hyperion
So he did it. He got a 360.

I've played Bioshock, and it's fun.

Unfortunately, I won't be having sex for weeks, since he has something new to play with.

THANK YOU. 360.

But I like bioshock and I'm about to try Gears of War, ya'll have given me lots of ideas for christmas presents, too, thank you. smile.gif
Mata
Download the Burnout Paradise demo from Live, then whenever one of you smashes through anything (which happens about every five seconds) you can say: 'I know the guy who put that there!' biggrin.gif If it bounces or breaks on your car (and in a fair number of cases, if it doesn't too) then that was my work.

Crackdown and Bioshock are, in my opinion, the best games that I've played on the 360. Don't get him Oblivion. I hear it's amazing, but it also tends to utterly absorb people's lives, and if your libido ever wishes to feel satisfied again then you should leave that one on the shelf!

EDIT: If you do download it, don't forget to let me know what you think of Burnout Paradise over here http://www.matazone.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=14663 I've got my own thoughts about the game and it'll be interesting to hear outsiders' opinions.
EvilSpoon
I've heard tell that Sony is going to begin charging for online play at some point. Some ridiculous figures, but it's probably just some moron online spouting garbage over Xbox Live tongue.gif

Really, I love the 360. The PS3, while nice and shiny, cause for bragging rights, etc... I just don't know if I'd get the use out of it for the price tag. I feel like the 360 was a better deal for me. Personal taste, I suppose.

As for saying no Call of Duty, aww.. CoD4 is keeping my attention so well. I used to despise the idea of FPS on console, and now I actually prefer it I think. The game pad adds a more tactile game play, something about it really gets me into the games in general. I've always been a PC kind of person, but now I'm more console oriented because it's easier to pop a game into the 360 than boot up my PC and play for short periods of time.

Forza 2 Motorsport (which comes with newer packages, I assume you've probably got your hands on it if you purchased one of said packages) is fantastic. As far as racing games go I'm impressed because it actually challenges you to think about your turns. Most other race games are more along the lines of "go really really fast". Some Xbox originals are really nice to add to a game collection as well, IE Crimson Skies, Psychonauts, Fable, Red Dead Revolver and whatever else you fancy. The only problem is not all of the originals are backwards compatible with the 360, which is upsetting.

Either way, my Xbox Live handle is Sporkfly if any of you all want to add me biggrin.gif
Hyperion
I tolded him to get the Burnout Paradise demo... Also..

I thoroughly enjoyed watching him play The Darkness, which may or may not be out for other systems. It's a fun mafia-type game with shadowy nomnoms. It was a game that led to lots of nibbling. smile.gif Think a FPS with Lasombra shadow tentacles.

The Naruto game was absolutely retarded imho, but for die-hard fans of the show, I guess it would be fun.

ALSO:

I purchased Guitar Hero 2 and 3 for the 360. While I love 2 still, I'm not as impressed with 3. It has some good new songs, but was HIGHLY disappointed at the lack of downloadable content, which was the whole reason I bought the game. The selection is poor, and it costs about $6.75 US for a package of three songs. LAME.
Mata
I'd heard the same thing about GH3, but I only hear masses of praise about Rock Band so try that instead (yes, it's another big spend). It's not out for another three months in the UK!

EvilSpoon: The price of the PS3 is pretty intimidating, but I found with the 360 that its price soon went up. I needed a wireless connection for it so that was another £70 ($140) on top of the tag, which very nearly levels it out with the PS3 already. I'm not likely to fill up the 360's harddrive because I find it's media networking so annoying (I've set it up several times only for the rules to change and then I have to spend hours working out what's different before it works again) so I've given up on that. The PS3 may well get good use of the harddrive as I transfer over media to look at in the living room, for example my parents were visiting and wanted to see some digital photos. I transferred them over onto the PS3 and used its lovely photo gallery software to show them rather than all of us huddling around the PC. Anyway, my point was that the PS3 comes with three times the HD space and can be upgraded easily with any normal HD, but the 360 costs another £65 ($130) for another 20GB of memory, still leaving it 20GB short of the PS3 and the price tag a lot higher... And yet still there is the extremely valid point that the 360 has a much better range of games available for it.

Oh, and I hate being told how much a download costs in bloomin' Microsoft points. What's wrong with using actual money like every other online transaction system in the world? 400 points? What's that in sterling?

Ignoring all the price and interface issues, there are two big differences between the machines:

the 360 has better games at the moment (and potentially could continue to do so if Sony doesn't start shifting more units)
the PS3 is so much quieter!

What do I play on more? The 360. What do I enjoy the overall experience of more? The PS3. Somewhere between them there is the ideal machine.

Going back to disappointing music games: SingStar on the PS3 has a really lack lustre range on the disk and so far there haven't been enough updates on the downloadable side of things to make an evening's entertainment. I really hope that they start sorting out this side of things soon because it's good fun to warble along with Bowie and Mercury in the evenings!
Jester
I found Halo 3 disappointing, it was a good game, but Halo 2 was better, and Halo 1 even better than that. I've yet to try it online though, only played the game through on co-op.

I don't own any of the next gen consoles, but i'd go for a 360, seems to have more decent games. I've never been happy with a sony console and the only Wii game that interests me is Zelda, and Smash Bro's when that comes out. I feel nintendo are slowly but surely going downhill, I don't think they will reach the awesomeness of the N64 anytime soon.
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