Tolerance... It's preached over and over everywhere but it only seems to apply to race. I don't think there is a god. That is my firm belief and then the irony is... Christians make death-threats to me all the time. I am tired of being persecuted for my belief. I try to avoid the topic as much as possible because it has caused many problems for me in the past. I've lost friends over it. The fact that I'm an atheist makes people scorn me. The tell me its a cop out. That I'm just misguided. That its the sourse of my problems in life. I get so irritated when someone cracks off a "Thats so jewish" remark because I know what its like. I've been told to "Shut the F*** up you stupid atheist" in a conversation on heaven and hell. I'm just tired of being threatened, put down, and told off over my belief. Is it to much to ask that you don't praise God in front of me and I wont bring up how funny I think that is? I'm all for free speach but if you say anything about god then stop telling me to shut up when I say "What god"

People do all that for you being an aethist?

*runs away before they do it to her*

Meh, seriously though, thats a good point. If they preach tolerance then why are they so predjudiced sometimes. I personally have been told i will "burn in hell" for witchcraft... WHITE witchcraft...

I'm guessing you're form the US right?
Religion, (Oh blimey....what I time to forget how to spell that word) or at least Chritianity isn't considered so important in the UK anymore as its become so dated. I don't mean unfashionable as such, its just the beliefes of the Church of England have lost touch with the every day plights of modern society. the Bible is a book set out as rough guidlines, not rules...yet its near impossible not to break at least some of the ten commandments. I bet the pope has broken a few in his time...coveting his neigbours Ox and all

lol yes I'm in the states... I have been physically harmed over not believing in god. I dont agree with the commandments either... George Carlin has a humorus bit on them lol. I think when your dead, its over. No sequel (SP!) no credits no nothing. I hope its reincarnation but hey, we'll see. I think the afterlife stuff about heaven is to fill the void and Hell is a government way to scare people into obedience. But hey... I have lottsa theorys

Lmao

Ive been physically harmed by christians for being a goth...

Its all down to being different from them...

I've been harmed too..PPL hate me fore being a Pagan/Bi/Goth they really do...I've been beaten alot for it *cries* it sucks..

Poor hunni *hug*

When i was younger this guy used to watch me on my way home from school and shout stuff a me bout how being a goth would send me to hell. One time he pulled a knife on me... Thank god im a good sprinter...

I don't know if you guys have this in the states but we have something called 'townies' here. don't know if you've heard of that. A typical townie is somone who dresses from head to toe in named brand clothes (Nike being a favourite) and beating the crap out of anyone that looks/sounds rocky.
I was at a gig not long ago and the guitar player from my bf's band was chased down the street by a bunch of Townies. Luckily, he made it back to the pub before they caught him. They where outnumbered by about a trillion to one there.

Anyway....yeah. same kind of thing I think.

Hell yea do we have townies- I live in a townie town

Ok
1) Im "Goth/Mosher" - So the townies hate me
2) Im Bi - So everyone hates me lol funnily enough i dont tell too many ppl that
3) Im Pagan - So Christians seem to hate me
4) Im a witch - So Christians seem to hate me

BUT my cousins and aunt and uncle are very christian and they accept me?

Geez what is the problem?

Maybe it just depends on the mentality of person. Or how many brain cells they have to rub together.

If its any concelation (sp?) I don't dislike you for any of the reasons you gave, and I doubt anyone else here would either. Being bi/gay, wicca/witch, rocker/other or whatever religien shouldn't matter in theory. As I said, some people lack in the brain cells depo (in a lot of cases anyway)

Well we kinda do... We call em preps. The preps like to wear 35 dollar shirts and get new ones every week. They move in packs and are never found alone, then when they jump a punk or a rocker they think theyre hardasses... I remember I had to run from a fight with em once... Not fun stuff... This has turned into a support group hasnt it XD

Lol

Townies/Preps/Jocks whatever you wanna call them

you'll find that if there's a large group of rockers...they'll shout abuse from a distance. If there's on one rocker about, they'll beat the crap outta them. kinda shows how brave/stupid they are really.

I find it hilarious how they think shouting 'rocker' at the top of their voice should be considered an insult when you're blatently flaunting the fact.

and yay for support groupness! My boyfriends got nutted in the face by some townie a few years ago for being a rocker. He's had bad nose bleeds ever since Something should really be done abut this kind of behaviour

this has gone waaaay off topic

LOL... -changes subject to persecution- XD

I took this discussion Here so we can keep talking about this.
this thread is about atheism, not musical differences.

I don't know if I would class myself as atheist as I'd like to believe in something, I just dont at this present moment.

God is a sensitive subject and should only be debated...well not really debated, discussed, with mature people on both sides wlling and open to both views to explain beliefs or have normal mature discussions...

i feel for you ..i too am often persecuted for me beliefs it's very not cool

I wish ppl could just exept other ppl for their belifes...no one in my town not even my best friend know's I'm BI...they all know I'm pagan cause I runb it in the Mornam's faces to piss them off (I live in Utah close to salt lake) but I dont trust anyone around here to know about the way I worship as a pagan or being Bi because theire all so shallow minded...plus we have alot of gangs here and I hate that cause it means lots or rape and abuse...thank god that i never go out side........much.

BTW when I put thank god....I put in in lowre case to show it's not THE God....ok?..after all he's done I would never thank him...

This'll piss you off. It's "atheism", as defined by the good people at "Citizens for the Ten Commandments":

"the instance or act of deploring and fighting against morality, Christianity and God while buffering oneself behind the fanciful notion of the non-existence of God, and often Satan, in order to avoid the appearance of the inevitable linkage with Satan"

The funniest part is, they preface this with the words "Atheism can be objectively defined as follows" (my emphasis).

I was always miserable when I was a Christian. Ever since I was a child, I questioned and doubted and felt guilty all the time. I felt even more guilty entertaining the idea that Christianity wasn't for me...but I finally had to be true to myself and now I am so happy about it. I was the most surprised over my friend Crystal's reaction: She is a very very strong Baptist, and I thought this would really break our friendship. But she told me, "Well, it says to be all hot or all cold for God in the Bible, so at least you're one of the extremes, huh?" I was like . I have not been badly persecuted...except sometimes by my parents. And sometimes my dad will poke fun at me. Like I will say "Oh my God!" And my dad will say, "Hmmm...interesting..."

It's very frustrating to break tradition.

But it was either live miserably forever in angst over religion or be myself and be quite content most of the time.

I don't think there is anything wrong with Christians...I think that all people, no matter what they believe in, are generally good, but often scared of what they don't understand or practice. If you can believe in something with your whole heart and feel joy about it, then by all means go for it. It just didn't work out with me...

That's whack...reeeeal objective there ...

WEBSTER, that good old chap, defines it as:


a : a disbelief in the existence of deity b : the doctrine that there is no deity

Webster's in Hell.

How rare Nice digging there Commie!

There was me thinking that atheism broke down to non-theistic. As in not holding with the whole 'higher power' idea. Now the scales have fallen from my eyes, and I see that I've been a minion of Satan all this time.

Now I must rush out and force people on the street to accept the God that I spent so long wishing people wouldn't try to tell me about while shopping.

good one fuzzy

Thats what I'm talking about Fuzzman. I used to be a part of it and I couldn't fake my belief in a being of infinate love who will send you to a hell. My parents are still in denial. My dad always asks me if I wanna go to church, my mom just says "Your not an Atheist your not..."

Ed_Lover: You live in Utah?! I'm so sorry. You need to be rescued... -starts the raise money for gas to save Edward_Lover1200 fund-

I'm going to back up DarkLunacy here. I have been thought a lot less of once certain people around me found out I was atheist. And hooboy was THAT even worse during my brief paganism run.

It didn't affect me at all simply because if they can't respect me for my decisions when I am perfectly respecting their decisions, then they're not people I needed to associate with. Of course now I'm surrounded by atheists and a few wiccans. *shrug*

But telling someone they're stupid for being an atheist is like saying "you're stupid for being a christian, you sheep" But it's not true. No one is stupid for having beliefs. IN ANYTHING.

ugh, i am not physcially abused, and my situation isnt half as bad as many of yours, but here goes:
i told my parents that i am NOT jewish. i dont believe in god. my parents say that i sound anti-semetic [i said "in my opinion, judiasm is crap."] my mom starts going off about how "judaism isnt just what is written in the bible, judaism is charity and education and blah blah blah. so are you telling me you dont beleive in charity jessica? you think we should just let people who need help die on the street because we are better off than them?" "NO that is not what i said, you dont have to be jewish to believe in charity! if you had to be jewish to believe in charity [and all the other stuff she talked about], then most people with any kind of morals at all are jewish! AND if you believe in this religion, then i am an jewish adult, meaning i get to make my own decisions [at least religiously] and you are not respoinsible for me!" "YES, but you are jewish!!" "Am i an American citizen? yes. does America have the freedom of religion? yes. so i dont want to be jewish, so I'm NOT." "You were born into this religion, you are jewish until you are 18. then, as an adult, you can CONVERT to another religion." "well would you be happier if i were hindu? or buddist? or wiccan? why can't i just be what i want to be?" "lets discuss this another time, Jessica." "NO I want to finish discussing it now!" "We will talk about this another time."

gah ... suckingness >_<

poor crazi ...

my grandparents were like that when they wanted me to start taking communion (the church of scotland one) with them and i told them i didnt believe that christianity's teachings were for me ... and i thought theyd be happyish that i was being honest - i just didnt want to partake in a sacred rite of a religion i have no belief in ... it is sacreligious and disrespectful to those who do follow the religion as far as im concerned ...

ok,i'm gonna be the dumbass of the group-

#1-whats an atheist?
#2-whats a pagan?

i don't know this stuff cos i never paid attention to RE at school-i told sir that Jesus was a load of b******s,and when this was said to my parents on parents evening,they commented "well our family doesn't believe in Jesus-we all dance around a fire naked and howl at the moonlight whilst drinking ram's blood"-good old daddy

"Atheist" can have two meanings - simply someone without any particular belief in a god, or someone who believes or is convinced that there is no god.
"Pagan", at least as we're using it, means Wiccans or followers of other Neopagan religions such as Asatru.

if they dont believe in any specific deity doesnt that make them agnostic?

No, an agnostic is someone who isn't sure, or doesn't think it relevant.

I'm an atheist too... although people still think I'm Christian, although I stopped being one last month x_x

ah - i was under the impression that if you were agnostic you beleived in a higher being but couldnt comfortably define it in any religion. maybe not though ...

...wow....i never knew people could be so closed minded as to actually physically harm someone who's beliefs don't coincide with their own, how hypocritical.

I had a fairly christian upbringing, i went to a small village primary school, very involved in the village church, my grandmother was a Jehovah's Witness, she tried to influence me but she died when i was quite young, actually since leaving primary school it slipped, strangly RE at secondary school seemed to focus mainly on hindu and....i forget the others, never touched on pagan or anything....where was a i going with this?... umm... so yeah, i'm pretty much athiest, not to extent of some (one person refused to attend my grandad's funeral because it was in the church...stupid woman, she made me angry) but if someone asks me in the street or comes to my door i ask them politely not to push their beliefs on me.....agnositic's (not sure) a good way tyo reply but they try to convince you to believe

[/waffle]

wow I feel so loved *bluhses* lol


Atheist as far as I know is when you have no beliefs...am I right? and pagan as I know all to well is when you belive in more then one god or goddess...I'm just giving simple def. here I dont have time to go into complex detail

That all depends on your definition of Beliefs. I dont believe in God but I believe you shouldnt do certain things like kill without justification. Its all a matter of definition and perspective.

pagan's don't worship gods as such, they worship the sun, the moon, earth, wind, water etc...

thats what stone henge was for (there was a documentry), it was apparently built to help the transition from nomadic hunting lifestyle to agriculture...the later needing the sun the former relying more on the moon

people had trouble switching alliegences....its complcated to go into it more than that

That's polytheism, isn't it?

...no thats worshiping multiple deities, being seeing as poly is a latin derivative for many*


*don't hold me to that i'm usually wrong on these sorta things

The Ontario Consultants on Religious Tolerance disagree with you:

wiccans are pagan, but not all pagans are wiccan..thats all i got from my friend,the rest of it confused me

As a Christian, I would just like to add my input here.

I believe in God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost and it suits me well. Do I believe in these things absolutly? Yes. Do I believe that atheists are wrong? Yes. Do I believe that non-followers of Christ are wrong? Yes. Do I believe that all should believe in Christianity? Yes.

But...Will I force my beliefs on anyone or hold the beliefs of others against them? No. That's not what Jesus would have us do. Jesus wanted us to love, not sit on a high horse and tell others ow wrong they are. Christ did not blame others for not following Him. Christ did not condemn others for not believing in Him. He condemned actions more than beliefs. He condemned hypocracy above everything else. It's been my mission since I became a Christian to rid myself of hypocracy and be able to love as He did.

You should come live in Oregon, it's the most liberal and least-churched state in the U.S. Very non-discriminatory.

I'd like to start off saying that I agree completely with Righteous. Those people who hurt you or were mean to you are idiots and hypocrites. Don't let them represent the majority of the religion by being idiots. Every "group" has their fair share of bad apples,and it seems that Christians have more than enough to go around.

Or just go live in England

I second that notion. England is very religion-free, if that makes any sense. Bascically, as far as this girl can work out, no one, apart from the stupid, really cares what religion you follow unless you start to go around and beat other people up (hence my addition "apart from the stupid"). Then people just start to hate you.

Or is that my own view? Oh well.......I haven't been sent to prison for it yet, so.......YEAH!

Paganism cannot really 'be' described as it means different things to different people. The Oxford English Dictionary says this though;

PAGAN
1. a member of a group professing a polytheistic religion or any religion other than Christianity, Judaism or Islam (yeah so what about Buddhism? Is that Paganism?)
2. a person without any religion: a heathen
3. of or relating to pagans or their faith or worship
4. heathen, irreligious
5. from the Church Latin 'paganus' meaing 'civilian' and hence not a soldier of Christ.

Personally I like the first half of the first sentance and that's about it!

I have a reverance for nature, I believe in and have felt a higher power that is both masculine and feminine and I practise the occasional bit of magick. That makes me a Pagan. It's about what I feel inside. Christianity never really did it for me. I connected with the divine but I didn't see how it could only be male without the female. To me life can't exist without the opposing feminine aspect

Each to their own, I say! Horse for course and all that. If you're an atheist you shouldn't be persecuted for that. That's wrong. Live and let live. I like it that there are various 'faiths' posting on this board and we all seem to get along. We might not agree with each other's views but we don't force our own upon each other. I'm feeling the luv

Sam
x

there used to be a lot of harm done ...remember... hitler... millions of jews, homosexuals, political figures, and jehovah's witnesses were done physcial harm because of their beliefs...i know of jehovah's witnesses that were tar and feathered in the US in the early 20th century because of their beliefs...

religion is a very touchy subject with a lot of people..and a lot of countries... look at Ireland... the religious fighting going on there...so many wars have been fought over religion...