I have always thought that the education system here in the states is WORTHLESS.
My teachers are usually a bunch of A$$**** that don't know how to properly teach people.


This came from This Website. A program Iv'e been involved with for about three years now.
I think teachers should be Guides, not instructors, unfortunately that's not the case.

Please Give me your opinion on this topic. And I challange anybody against it to discussion on this thread.

I went to a public, American school. And it was excellent.

Our schools, overall, however, are not that great. That's because of a serious lack of funding. Not because we have bad teachers.

I've never seen funding to be the problem, but then again that's just how I see things. But even if funding is the problem, I'm positive that this teaching method would help (for any of youse peoples that checked the website)

i used to go to the most expensive private school in the city (i'd say 'best', but that's just personal opinion). now i go to public school. a public school that you have to test into, but a public school nonetheless. and i love it there. really, there isn't a school i'd rather be.

that being said, there's a LOT of things wrong with american public school in general. the most important being that too much money is spent making the school look shiny instead of getting standard supplies.

teaching method is all important, at university the students on my degree (and in my year) are split into 3 sets, for computer based synthesis we have an hour lecture and 2 hours practical, now my set has some german guy who used to work for steinburg (the company that make cubase....an industry standard piece of music software) so you'd think he's being be a good teacher and know what he's doing.....in reality its a joke, he mumbles something in bad english for about 10-15 minutes at the begining of the lab and we have an hour and 45 minutes to do....i dunno...he's never really made that clear, now the other sets have the guy that does the lectures for their labs, he's a wicked bloke and really knows and cares about what he's doing and therefore the other sets know stuff we don't which i would say gives them an unfair advantage, for studio time for the first couple of lectures we had a superb lecturer and his philosophy was firmly learn by doing, his input was minimal if another student knew how to do something, now some guy gets ill and the lecturers have been moved about so we have some guy that mumbles at us again (a different guy, he knows what he's doing at least), the difference is HUGE!....sorry that turned into a rant....we've made SO many complaints its silly but there doesn't seem there's anything they can do about it...shame

I go to an American school, and a New York City public school at that. I'm coming out pretty good, i think.

I got a great education in a public school. Sure, there are some teachers who don't know how to teach. But there are many teachers who do. I think teaching highschool is one of the hardest jobs in the world....for a very small salary.

That's the problem wtih socialized education.

Sh*tty wages = Sh*tty teachers = Sh*tty schools. Plain and simple.

The government thinks that throwing money at education's gonna do anything when it doesn't do a damn thing and if it did, it's wasted on so many people going through the motions just to drop out or get a GED. With privatized educatuion, we wouldn't have this problem. Schools would offer competative wages for teachers and competative prices for consumers. Schools would weed out bad teachers and invest time and research into developing new and different educational methods to help their students perform better. The time and money of the schools wouldn't ba wasted on kids who don't want to be there because it wouldn't be mandatory and therefore money wouldn't be wasted. Now, I know what you're thinking: Only the wealthy will be able to afford schooling for their kids. My mom works for a private school and there they offer tuition payment plans and financial aid for parents of students. Also if schools were privatized, parents would care more about both their kids and the schools because they're paying for it, so we wouldn't have the lethargic, apathetic parents that we do today. Also there would probably be scholarships and what-not for unfortunate parents. I'm a firm believer in complete privatization because with privatization comes efficiency and efficiency in education is what's needed. Nooch.

Righteous...are you a right winger? Or let me rephrase that...are you against socialism?

I don't think i am a right winger so much as I do not agree with socialism.



That is how i feel too...not necessarily the complete privatization of public grade schools though. I actually think that public schools in america are a good thing.

I am neither a left winger nor a right winger. I am an anarcho-capitalist, or more simply an anarchist.

hmm v. interesting. I am not exactly sure what anarcho-capitalism involves. I dont think I am for anarchy though.

I am definitely for capitalism..but i think capitalism needs to have some controls on it too.

Ever read Ayn RAnd (Atlas Shrugged)? That book changed the way i look at the world and myself.

course soon as that happen it can all go tits up, it's happened here in england...though perhaps because it was done badly? either way, bloody tories *shakes fist*

Yeah, that happens. There are always going to be the elitests who screw everything up. Ah, well. To hell with 'em.

And yes, Ms. Rand has had a profond effect on anarcho-capitalists the world over. Basically, we believe that socialism and government are inherrently evil and stifle progress, like in Anthem (read it; it kicks ass). We also believe that we don't need to be chained to the least of society and have the right to do what we wish with what we have. That's why, though I'm now drug-free, I'm for the legalization of all drugs. I could go deeper into anarcho-capitalism, but I'm in the hub and have to grab a PC before someone else does.

im reading the book Anthem. its for an essay contest im entering. its really good so far.

Yes, one of the few really cool things I learned about in high school...

No.

I had a thread about teachers in here too...

they're just getting worse. *shrug*

I'm too tired to elaborate.

I think that the most impactful teachers I've ever had were my social studies teachers, my English teachers, my gifted studies teacher and my senior-year economics teacher. I learned the most in these classes, particularly gifted studies and economics (both through which I became an anarcho-capitalist). There are good teachers out there, but let us not forget the other miserable ones.

Ah wow, so I have a bit in common with you as far as poltics/philosophy.

Yes I have read anthem. I have also read Atlas Shrugged and the Fountainhead. I started on We the Living, but i got kind of tired of reading Rand by that time (communist russia is a bit depressing to read about.)

I agree with you that socialism is evil. Have you read that part in shrugged that describes the 20th century motor company? (i believe that was the name). That was a brilliant piece of writing....best argument against socialism i have ever read.

I believe that some government is needed. Why? Well for starters to ensure that property rights are maintained. Realistically i dont think there has ever been a country that existed under complete and total anarchy....

I am against drugs and do not think they should be legalized.

The way I see it, pure capitalism is anarchy. But then, so is pure socialism (in one of it's forms). Argh.

In my career as an anarchist, I haven't liked socialism. I'm all for helping folks out, but when it comes to forcing others to do good ends up being counterproductive. I'm also a firm believer in owning oneself. That's why I support private education. Some people don't want to go to school, so why should they be forced to? Some people don't have kids, so why should they have to pay for other people's kids? My mom works for a private school. It's not to bad for parents to get their kids into it. There are payment plans and loans. I also am a firm believer in scholarships and what-not. I'm a charitable guy, not just a capitalist pig. Besides, like I said earlier, a little competition would do some good for schools.

At my school, nearly all the history teachers are/were football coaches. Only 1 of the history teachers (out of nearly 15) is female. In my current class, we're supposed to be learning about civics. This is a required course for graduation. All we do is worksheets out of the book, and talk. Well, Friday someone was playing harmonica.

We were also required to take two years of 'Vocational Arts.' The first year, I learned how to fill out a job application, did an intro to CAD, Microsoft Office training, and sex ed. The next year, I had a 6 week psychology intro, 6 weeks of keyboarding/basic music theory, health, internet use, drafting, and a ethical module. Two years wasted, where I could have taken an interesting and more useful class.

So yes, I think America's current schooling system is ineffective.

Although I view Communism as being a (nearly) perfect society, I also realise it's unfeasable. I'm really a left-leaning liberal. Anyways, the reason socialism, communism etc doesn't work so well is because of the lack of incentive for the masses to actually do thier part.

I can't see what owning oneself has to do with this. You only own yourself up until the point you choose to sell your labour to whoever wants it. Then, you only own the part yourself outside of work. Socialism/Communism owns everyone, Capitalism owns it's workers. What this has to do with education I fail to see. People who don't have kids don't pay for other kid's education, they pay for the education they recieved, just a delayed payment. Private education only serves to maintain the class structure, and has nothing to do with the ability of kids. Only the lucky few W/C children who get scholarships are the ones given the advantage of a well funded education. From what I hear of the State funded education in the US, it's a nothing more than a factory-fodder factory.

The fundamental criticism I have of Capitalism is this: People do not choose how much headway they have in the world when they are born and therefore should be given as much chance as everyone else up until the point where they are able determine their own destiny.

hehe....discussion shift!

I went to an American public COUNTRY school....I'm not sure about the city schools, although I know I always wanted to go to one because at least there'd be more friggin' people in my grade..

We lucked out in getting teachers who at least (for the most part) cared about their students. One big problem was that all our teachers were also either coaches or ran some other extracurricular activity (such as drama, yearbook, school paper, etc). So they had a lot less time to be able to devote to their classes. It's possible I look back kindly on my teachers because they were some of the only friends I had in high school....because after hearing from some of my friends who went to the large Iowa City high schools, I'm realizing my educational opportunities in my small backwoods school (graduating class of 1996: 94 seniors, 2 juniors) were pretty slim.

A big part of the problem with American public schools is that they were modeled after the German public schools, pre-WWI. Americans went to Germany and saw how wonderfully, rigidly controlled the classrooms were, how attentive the students were, and fell in love. That's why classrooms are (less and less these days, but you'll get my drift) arranged with the desks all facing a teacher in the front of the room....why questions aren't requested as much as answers....and honestly, why the American school systems are falling apart. Lack of funding also has a lot to do with it...if you don't pay your teachers enough to get by, they're going to get pretty friggin' surly and not want to teach anymore. Add to that the breakdown of the family structure, giving you kids with little or no respect for authority who won't listen to the teachers, and you're getting a recipe for a big, crappy education. Private schools are becoming much more popular, and for good reason. Big-city public schools (at least, the ones not in the ghettos) are doing fairly well, from what I see in the news....but small town and country schools are just eking by, from what I've experienced.

ok...I go to a public school and I have moved alot so I know what schools are like all over the country...Including the south...north...and now west...and all I have say is nine times out of ten..no they are aren't doing their job...so I put 'OF course not!' cause IMO it's true...so yeah I may be wrong I may be right...But I still dont hink their that great...

well, i may be a crazy canadian, but i feel that there are two big problems with the american system.

first is this whole private/public thing. we just don't have that here. there is a small separate catholic school system, but the vast majority of schools are public. this means that it is cheaper for parents to give there kids a good education. all the best teachers are in the public system, cause that's all there is. of course, that means all the worst teachers are in it to, but over all, i've had far more good teachers than bad. the schools i went to all had decent facilities with up to date equipment. there aren't any "poor" or "rich" schools as they all get the same amount funding, no matter what part of the city they are in. s-o-c-i-a-l-i-s-m is the only way!

second, policies such as "no child left behind" and the like lead to standardized testing. because of this, many teachers are teaching kids the bare minimum necessary to pass said tests. this makes for boring lectures instead of fun interactions.

in conclusion: move to canada.

i think the teachers do fairly well with what there givin to teach with, and how much do we really need to know, we all can obviously read, i mean theres lots of people that cant, we can all do math, we all know most of our history, what more could you possibly want. the teachers teach you exactly what you need to know to live your life.

Okay, I'm going to stand up and defend private schools here.
Firstly, there is no way in Hell I would have survived secondary education in the state school system. Every state school in the area is, well, pretty bad, and having seen the gangs that go there, I couldn't have survived socially either.
Secondly, the education I received at my private school is far better than what I would have received in a state school. I'm now at a state college, most people there are from state schools and it's obvious that I've been taught a lot more than them.
Thirdly, it's hardly only for rich people (I'm by no means rich, though I did have to pay full fees). There's an aptitude test to get in, and both scholarships and assisted places are offered.
The private system has helped me hugely, and I don't see a damn thing wrong with it.

I see a few things wrong with it:

I go to a private Canadian school in Singapore. According to my teachers, if I was in a Canadian public school I would be getting an average of over 90% (and doing a lot less work than I do now). I would have no problem not only getting into university, but also getting enough scholarships to pay for my entire education. At the moment, I've got an average in the high 70s, which isn't enough for me to get into many universities. There's no way in hell I'm ever getting a scholarship, particularly with the amount of money that my parents make, even though they refuse to pay for my education.

I know I'm getting a better education. I know that if I do get into university, my marks will be higher than many people's, but you know what? At this point, I don't care. Unless I spend my entire life doing nothing but schoolwork, I may not have a future at all, and neither will many of my friends (though, being a racial minority in Canada, they've got a better chance at admissions and scholarships than I do). At this point I really wish I'd just had a chance to go to a public school.

The school systems are clearly very different in England and Canada.

american public schools are aweful. its because of poor funding, and the lower standards we have. public schools get what other schools have kicked out, or refused. i graduated in the top ten percent of my class, i could ahve done better but they really dont encourage you to do so. if i had the option to do so, i would send my childern to a out of the country school, or to a private one at the least. i know i did not learn what was needed and i fell threw the cracks.

I probably should not post here since I just started working in a US high school... but.. I think that some of the blame needs to go on the kids and the parents.. and the government as well.
Schools are under funded and teachers are grossly underpaid. A starting teacher in my state, with a four year degree makes around 23-24,000 a year. I, with no college degree, am making almost twice that to do IT work here at the school.
As far as kids, I have never seen more disrespectful kids in my life. I know it is not this way everywhere but generally there is no respect for the teachers at all. They cause constant disruptions leading to the kids who do care losing valuable class time. The kids who are in constant trouble, their parents don’t care. They would rather threaten to sue the school than to accept there child is a troublemaker. Hoping by making threats there kids will avoid punishment.
The US and state government is ignoring these issues, ignoring funding needs due to a fools war in the middle east... while a fools war goes on in our classrooms. IMO, there is lots of blame to go around.

of COURSE some school here are terrible. and, obviously, the best schools here are the ones with the most money. personally, i've been to both private and public. i, at least, thought/think the schools i went/go to were/are amazing. but, really, it all depends on where you go.

i don't think you can classify our system as 'good' or 'bad'. it all depends on where you go.

Money means nothing. A school can have all the money it wants but if the teachers don't give a rat's ass and the teaching methods are ineffective then whether the school has good monetary resourses is a moot point. If schools were completely privatized then these would be would be reason to fix these problems (school suckiness = no profit).

It's been my experience that schools with more funding have teachers that do not become so easily discouraged and still remain excited about teaching.

I am against privatizing the schools (it'll never happen though, so I really have little to worry about), simply because it's embarrasing enough for students when they have to get free lunch at a public school. Everyone knows about it. Imagine getting a voucher to attend school for free...that'd be even worse. More funding to the public schools would change things drastically. There's no need to privatize them...they simply need more resources.

That's not always true. My high school (here in Florida, USA) paid jack sh*t and I've had some of the greatest teachers one could ever have (including my economics teacher who converted me to anarcho-capitalism). However when I lived in Pennsylvania, the teachers there (which were paid greatly) were absolutly horrible save the occasional few who gave a rat's ass. Public funding isn't always the answer to the problam of bad teachers.

Didn't you live in Philadelphia though? It's been my experience that teachers in most cities don't get paid enough to live in that city, while teachers in rural areas make the same amount -- but it's a pretty decent living for the area since the cost of living is lower.

Maybe Philadelphia is an exception though. *shrug.* I just thought it would be the same as NY since you talk about it like it was a rough neighborhood. But I do know that here in Oregon, there's always problems with budget cuts in Portland and Salem (and those aren't even "cities," really...more like really large towns). Where my husband grew up the teachers could hardly survive on what they made, and they could have lived comfortably if they'd have moved to Connecticut or Maryland or somewhere similar...instead of teaching in a NYC public school.

Where I lived teachers were paid a bit because they were unionized and it wasn't the roughest part of Philadelphia. There were some parts of Norristown (the borough in which I lived) which were rather aggressive. If you went to the Main Line from where I lived and headed toward Eagleville, it got better but if you headed toward Jeffersonville, there were some sketchy folks there (my favorite comic book store was in Jeffersonville; it got kinda interesting sometimes). Other boroughs like King of Prussia were pretty decent while others like Bridgeport that weren't exactly the best places.

Actually money has everything to do with it. You are thinking just teacher pay, you should be thinking funding for programs, funding for computers and software, funding for music and sports programs.. and all importantly funding for better teachers salaries.

Yes there are some teachers who perform a thankless job and love it. But from a new teachers point of view (due to population booms in America and other social factors, a large % of teachers have retired over the last few years, making the teaching staff younger) you have just finished college, you take a job with a public school system, your salary is about the same as entry level secretary, or a waitress. The kids have no respect for you, other than a minority. You do not have the supplies or funding from the school system to explore the programs that you think will benefit your kids. And to top it all off, the curriculum that you do want to teach is not supported by the school system and you must purchase those supplies yourself. Not to mention you have to buy your class supplies yourself as well.. on you 23,000$ a year salary. Not to mention that someone with your same degree just got a job in the corp. world making 45,000 $ a year.
Now you take all these factors, add trying to actually have a life on a teachers salary mix them all together, cook at 350 for 2 days, and you have a teacher who is bitter and just doesn’t care anymore. You have better paying jobs in the corp sector which lead to turn over and there goes a experienced teacher to the corp world.
When I started at this school the first thing out of the teachers mouths (after,"god I need a cocktail") was these kids have no respect, the second was, I don’t get paid enough to deal with there crap.