I just read something that made me cry. It was about how men are being pushed out of their traditional roles. I'm not talking about breadwinners or any of that crap. I'm talking about being fathers. It scares me the amount of people who are avoiding their responsibilities as dads. These days, men like the Promise Keepers (one of whom I want to be) are being tossed aside and are being replaced by men (HA!) who father children and abandon them. I can't stad the idea of kids growing up without dads, especially when I want to be a devoted husband and father.

My older sister Rachel is really my half-sister. Her "real" father bailed out on her and my mom. My dad was looking for a life-mate and a family when he met my mom. He was 31; she was 21, but she was more mature than a lot of women older than she. My dad stepped up to the plate and took the responsibility (that wasn't even really his) as her real father

America's facing a crisis. Kids are growing up without fathers. The bravest thing I've ever done was when Harmonie had a pregnancy scare. I was a virgin at the time, but I was willing to put my name on the birth certificate so that the kid wouldn't have to grow up without a dad. To this day, I still would. I wouldn't want her to get an abortion and I wouldn't want her to sacrifice her future because some guy got her pregnant and didn't have the courage to take responsibility. More importantly, I feel at least, I wouldn't want the kid to grow up without a real father in his life, even if I'm not the kid's "real" father.

Anyone can make a baby, but it takes a man to be a real father.

Amen to that last line, Righteous!

It is terrible that so many people often shirk their responsibilities to children. Fortunately, there are some people in this world with enough compassion to help others, as your father did and you were willing to do.

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I assume your main peev in this string is irresponsible males, but I wanted to respond to another line you included: "kids are growing up without fathers."

There are many ways that this can happen.

Interestingly, there are some guys out there who were responsible for unplanned pregnancies and did want to be involved with the children, but the women wouldn't let them, as marriage to that man was not in her plans.

I also wonder about women, either alone or in a same sex relationship, who choose to become pregnant through artificial insemination or a sperm donor, and who do not seem to want a father-figure in their children's lives.

These children are growing up without fathers....just wondering what you thought, if this is a problem or not, etc.

Also, how do we remedy the situation of irresponsible parents? How can we encourage men - and women- to take responsibility for their children, unplanned or otherwise?

My friends Meghan and Mandy want to have kids. Meghan said she wants me to be the father figure, an "Uncle (insert Ri's real name here)" if you will. I commend that and I would be more than happy to.

I think it would be better if we were to get rid of all of these incentives (like government subsities) that allow men to bail our of fatherhood. I also think things like public service announcements encouraging men to be fathers would be good. Read the article The Incredible Shirking Man that made me cry.

PLEASE PLEASE, I beg of you, let us not turn this into a poliical debate. All politics aside, this is a vital issue that affects us all and discussing it in any other light would stray us from the real importance.

i grew up after six without my dad...i can see how it affects people, and i agree, it is terrible when they shirk responsibilities, especially for the "women should raise the kids" reason

I'm the product of a Nuclear family, so I don't know about this by my own experience. But could someone in the know answer me this:

Does the absense of the biological father really matter as long as there is some sort of father figure there from an early age to take the place (provided he doesn't just up and leave too)?

The absence of a "real" (biological) father doesn't matter so long as there's a real (father figure) dad. I was willing to be the latter for Harm's kids even if I wasn't the previous.

I'm going to have to take issue with this.

The absence of a father does NOT adversely effect a child growing up. My dad died when I was 5, and I grew up raised by my mum. She never remarried, although she's been with the same guy for about 15 years. He never made an attempt to be a father figure, which I appreciate, and to be honest, had he tried to, i just would have resented it.

Now, due to the fact that my mother did a stellar job raising 3 kids on her own, I don't feel like I've sufferred in any way. I'm sure my life would have been different had my dad not died, and I'd probably be a different person, but I doubt my upbringing would have been 'better', or that I'd have turned out 'better'.

It's not the absence of a father that can cause problems, it's a crappy upbringing that's bad news, whether that's with one parent, two parents, or eighteen parents.

Well, it's one of those things. The exact same thing can happen to two people and said people will be affected differently. My mom had no real father figure and she's okay (crazy as all hell, but okay). The issue is that there are a lot of kids who have no dads ever, as in not even five years. It was good that you had a father for those years of your life (which are the most formative despite what people think), but there are kids who have no dads from birth to adulthood who are malaffected. I'm not saying that's the case for every child, but I feel personally that having a dad around would be the best for a child, even a step-dad like my friend Little Matt (yes, as opposed to Big Matt). Jeff loves Matt like his own and it really warms my heart. It could help Matt to grow up to be a good man, or at least maintain his present weirdness.

I think we're pretty much in agreement for the most part - having no father figure doesn't necessarily impair a kid's development, but it's usually a bonus, right?

I'm not sure about your point about first 5 years etc. It's my opinion that as a very young child, you're more tied to you mother, due to the biological aspect of nursing and caring, even more so as it's usually (but not always) the mother that's the one that cares for the kids 24-7.
I reckon that the biggest time that a father figure would impact a kid's development would be the pre and early teens. I've got no evidence to back that up of course, so could be talking out of my bumcrack.

No you're not talking out of your bum, J-man (can I call you J-man or do you even care?). It is importand to have father figure around the teens because that is about the time a boy begins progressing to adulthood and does identify more with the father, but as an infant and young child, one learns emotional attatchment to both parents, mother and father (God, I'm way too into psych). Tha's why often kids mistreated by their dads but not their moms from day one are power maladjusted. A lot of people are stoked that my angel has not only our dad, but also me, Rick and Tim to identify with. She's probably gonna grow up having very healthy relationships with males and it gives me that warm fuzzy feeling inside.

I'd disagree with that, actually... the mother isn't the sole influence on a child in the first 5 years. Yes, fair enough, they may get more involved, but the father will have an impact from a much earlier age.

Speaking as a recent step-dad to two 5 year-olds, they still have a large attachment to their "biological" (and, for the record, bloody useless dad) and they stress when they don't see him. He also works them up by playing on their loyalty and putting them on guilt trips cos he's concerned they'll prefer me to him. He even put "your dad" on the crimbo cards he sent to them. And the worst of it is, is it works. Now if fathers have no influence in the first five years, these two wouldn't give a toss about what he says. But they do. And it bugs the crap out of me and their mum.

Luckily, the 10 year old sees right through him, and a lot of people say she's become much more relaxed and stable since I came into her life. I pat meself on the back regularly about that one!

So, I appreciate that this is a one-off situation, but from that I'd deduce that kids lose their attachments as they get older and more independent, and it's during those toddler-to-teens years that they have their strongest ties.

Amen to that. I haven't had any type of relationship with my father for over half my life. I'm pretty screwed up, but that has nothing to do with a lack of a father figure in my life. Hell I think I would be much more screwed up if my father were still in my life.

I'm gunna have to go with Jon on this one.
My parents got divorced When I was 2, And ever since then my dad has lived in a different city/country for the most part. My mother never remarried or had a strong male figure in the house.
I think my mother did a pretty darn good job of raising me and my sister. She was strict (being a teacher the usually are like that.) But or the most part she learned us up everything we need to know in life.

to be fair leo old chum, when they grow up they'll see through, kids of that age are easier to fool...what with having less experience in the ways of arseholes but they'll work it out eventually, well here's hoping....

I too am gonna have to agree with Jonman on this one.

I don't think it matters at all whether the parents are male or female, or if there is more than one present. What matters is the way they treat the kids. My parents are thankfully both still alive and happily married, so I've no experience in this, but I've known kids who were raised by single parents (both mothers and fathers) and ended up as very healthy, well-adjusted adults. I don't think anyone needs a male (or female) influence in their life. They can be perfectly happy with just one parent.

Although, I do have to agree that men who run out on women because they impregnated them = scum. That's happened to a few friends of mine...but they're raising the kids on their own and doing quite a good job of it, I might add.

The main point I'm trying to make is that men who father children should step up and take responsibility. That's what peeves me. Irresponsible bastards like the guys in my old high school that would get chicks pregnant, drop out then disappear make my blood boil and sicken me. I highly doubt there is a man here who would do such a thing. I sure as hell wouldn't. As previously stated, I'd even take on responsibility as a dad to a kid that isn't even mine. Dammit, now all ths talk about disappearing dads has got me pissed. I'll play some Flash games and feel better.

Ri, i totally agree with you. however, i also agree with jonman and cand.

you see, when i was but 6 my rents seperated. i saw my dad once a month, and he tried but he just didnt really know how to be a good father. apart form that, my mother had a boyfriend. at first he was cool, bought us candy, played with us (us being my sisters and i). not too long after that he became abusive. first it was verbal...then...

anyways. i grew up with a real biological father, but not much of a father figure. he tried and i think he cared. and he was a really good person. its just that he didnt knwo how to be a father, and i think that might be what a lot of people feel. its worse when there is a father or stepfather who is like mine was. i didnt mind him, f--k i liked the pain, it was solace. but now i dont. and what he did to my mother and my sisters is unforgivable. he should burn in hell slowly. lacerated all over his bosy then painstakingly slowly dipped into a vat of boiling HCl. and he is the only person youll ever hear me say something like that about (except for a few other people, but you probably wont hear me say that).

mmm that was off topic a bit. anyways, my point is it matters not if someone has a good father or no father, its not that they even have a father, its that they grow up healthy and protected form abuse. sadly a lot of people do have to grow up with that.

but i want to be a good father for my children. assuming i have children, i will not put my life partner through something like that if its not what she wants. so children arent really my call. however, the person who it seems im going to be with forever does want children, so i will be there for my children. no questions asked.

True enough that it's usually a man's responsibility to father whatever offspring he produces, there are circumstances that mess up that ability.

If said man makes a mistake by whatever method you choose and ends up getting someone pregnant, should he really stick around if he'd hinder the child more than help it?

I was pretty attatched to my dad when he left, but I also understood that his alcohol abuse was getting out of control and he didn't want me around it or to end up doing something he'd regret. There are a lot of but and he could have's in that one, but since everything I knew of him before he died circulated around the fact that he was a very, very good loving person, I have no issue whatsoever leaning back on someone else as a father figure.

Now, when the second father figure starts disappearing.. ee; That's a bit much.

But through all of this rigmorale, I'm just more or less agreeing with Jonman and Cand. People can survive without a father.

I'd agree that people can survive without a father figure, but I think having a (decent) father figure around definately helps. We're not exactly a representative sample though, father-less or not. I'd say we're all pretty stable individuals here, and I'm sure theres a load of people who are screwed up because of the lack of a father in their early life.

Never mind my ramblings. It's what Sociology A levels do to you .

I've noticed a very large-scale problem with fathers as well. You know, I think it is great when I hear guys talking about how much they want to be fathers. At the same time I think that it could end up in ruin when they are so young. Because people change as they grow and get older and go through new experiences. I think what the main problem is the relationship between the mother and father. It really rubs off on the kids. There are many mothers out there at well who are irrisponsable. But people just learn from experience I guess, nothing else. *shrugs*

Yeah, D's right. Considering that we're all intelligent, higher-than-thw-norm folks here, mayhap what happens to the majority doesn't necessarily apply to all of us. Where's my pipe, notebook and coke (referring to my earlier joke)?

hm..... my parents divorced when i was 3... i saw my dad on weekends or maybe once a month.. soon after my mom got a boifrend (David for all of you who know about him ) he was awsome for a while but he wasnt like my dad.. i could NEVER see him as my dad knowing what i know now.. when i was young tho, i saw him as a friend, as someone i loved who took care of me.. he taught me a lot fo things but in a way f***ed me up more then not having a "father figure" would have.. i was young and i didnt know how love was.. and i learned.. from him that love is painful >_< i was 'tought' that love was hurt and only someone who loves you would hurt you..physicaly and mentaly.. NEWAYS... so yah, i grew up with David and my real dad, Ray. My dad may have eben in and out of my life, but he was still a big part, i was crushed when him and my mother divorced and i didnt understand.... i think that not haveing a father or father figure at all isnt the worst thing that can happen, but it isnt the best... my brother grew up without his real dad too... his dad abandoned him and my mother.... anyways, yah... i think that if a man is willing to havea child,m he shiuld make that commitment and take responsability. its one thing to be a father.. another to be a dad. and another to be a good dad... everyone makes mistakes but i think abandoning your child is cowardly

I toally agree with that. My parents divorced when I was really young, they didn't have the best relationship, in fact my mother was probaby scared of my faher as were me and my sister. However, they divorced and my mother found another guy who is absoluely great. Their relationship is based on friendship, love and respect. He has never tried to replace my father which I think is great, I still see my father and he is a much better person now than what he used to be like. I think I have been affected by this cos I've seen both sides, I've seen how bad reationships can be (my mother and father) and I've seen how good they can be (my mother and her partner).