Just giving out the news for anyone who does'nt know. Full story here.

God lord....
I almost thought you were pulling my leg and then I turned on the TV...It's on every channel.
Wow...
I'm not really sure what to say right now except...wow.......

Oh, i'm not that cruel. I'm pretty shocked too. I just woke up an hour ago and it's everywhere.

my first reaction when i saw this on the news was "'bout f*cking time".

which is a bit too harsh, obviously, but i was sleepy. gimme a break. *sings the kit kat commercial*

but i'm glad they caught him. i mean, even though i'm opposed to the war, the capture of saddam is definitelly a good thing. now, of course, the question comes up: will he be tried at the hague or will the US demand that he be executed and try him here?

Well, this is definitely going to be a big test for America's commitment to justice. With any luck, he'll be summarily executed and the Bush administration will be universally condemned.
And what the hell was he doing in Iraq in his hometown? Most. Obvious. Hiding. Place. Ever. *Smacks head*

The first thing that came to my mind was I hope it doesn't end up boosting Bush's political career. The last thing I want is for him to be re-elected. Blegh. Sort of an odd thing to be the first thought in my mind, I guess, but I just woke up, so

I swear, if he does get re-elected, I'm moving to Canada.

And I have to agree with Polo about that hiding place. Yeesh. Not exactly the most clever plan.

I woke up, my mom says, "Saddam has been captured." I said huh? she told me again and I said ok, what should I have for breakfast. Viva la cheddar!

when i found out i broke out the champagne and swung around on chandeliers.

HOORAY! *rides a horse thu while holding an america flag*

HURRAY!!!!!!!!

And when we are done with him we can give him to the Iraqis to be publicly executed as they see fit! Maybe I can help them out. Always wanted to hang someone by their scrotum.

By the way, did you see his face? He looks like hell! Then again I would too if I was living in a hole for a few months.

I do not think saddam deserves any mercy. He has tortured and killed soooooo many people. I am sure there are a lot of IRaquis who would love to get their hands on him.


May the new government in IRaq be one of freedom and peace. Now that the past has been dealt with the future can be planned.

*dances* u don mess w/ the u.s.!! how many times do we have to tell this world that?? *sigh* u'd think they would learn... ne way! WHEE! good news!!!!!!!!

Yay! Perhaps now we will stop this senseless war!

and there's a snowstorm here so we're not gonna see regular tv for awhile...

Yay!

I found out just now, because this was posted. We don't really watch the news at my house, since my little sister controls the tv. So we watch the Wiggles instead.

But yeah. Yay!

yeah im sure thell act the same way we did when the slaves were freed. there how many people in iraq? im sure if they really wanted to they could have thrown hussien out of office themselves. nothings goin to change, thats the way they have lived for a long long time and it will be several hundereds of years befor anything changes. thats there heratige. that there life. franckly i thinko sadom should be freed at once.

Naw dude, it was totally santa claus they captured.

OMG Cand, those are soooo exactly my thoughts right now....it's enough to make me think that somehow GW had a deal with Saddam's buddies to let him capture Saddam just so he'd be able to boost his flagging political career at the time when it's most important....a month before the Iowa and New Hampshire caucuses....

Well, I'm not fooled! Hooray for finding Saddam, GW, now get the hell out of office!

...and your "If he gets re-elected I'm moving to Canada"....if he does get re-elected, you'll probably be seeing me when you get to Canada... Some friends of mine from work and I all agreed to do the same thing in that emergency!

i heard it on the radio on a break...everyone just went "yes!!" at once! it's good methinks

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA

ppl who tried that ended up being thrown into wood chipping machines.

The fact that he was captured so early before elections surprises me, and proves its not ALL public relations. The primaries have nothign to do with Bush, so that isn't the issue. However the capture has been laced with PR, like "we gave saddam a shave".

I'm sorry, I have to disagree. The US, it is to be hoped, is not Hussein's regime, nor is the UN. Hussein deserves humane treatment and a fair trial, just like everybody else.

Can I edit that slightly to read:
"May the new Iraq be one of freedom, peace and justice."

If the Iraqi people don't see justice being handed out properly, they may as well rename the country "Camp Delta" and go around calling themselves Osama.

Leave the dog to the Iraqi people. He has caused crimes against them that can never truly be repaired, but the joy of seeing his blood spill ould be a welcome sight to many an Iraqi. You are right Commie, he is not the US, therefore we should have no obligation to treat him humanely.

Oh, I get it now. Only Americans get human rights. Everyone else can go f*ck themselves. Thanks for clearing that up.

I'm sorry, that kind of attitude is beyond detestable to me. It is EXACTLY that belief that got the World Trade Centre knocked down, and it is exactly that belief that will bring about the downfall of American civilisation. It is my sincere belief that anyone and everyone who supports that attitude should be summarily executed.

Go vote Republican and get the hell off of my post-Enlightenment planet.

Notice this comes right on the heels of that Halliburton scandal... *sigh*

I'm moving this to issues. And remember people, debate, not argument!

actually santa claus, is from and lives in Canada. So that is totally implausible


Just move to FT. McMurray and get a job at the oil fields doing secuirity or data entiry for $35 a hour plus a $3000 a month living allowence to live in Ft. Mac. No Experience required.
But I dunno how much better Canada will be with Paul Martin. Not to sure about him yet.

Yeah he deserves the same justice we give to people in our own coumtries. A fair trial with Fair Punishment. Besides who cares if he's locked up in a jail cell for the rest of his life. Not like he'd ever get out or be able to do anything. It would be very hypocritical to say this war was about peace and democratic freedom, then start executing people.

bush's address to the country was hilariously dramatic, as usual...and i agree with candice...if this helps his campaign im getting the hell out...saddam did look a mess...but at least he didnt quite resemble most of his statues...anyway as for the trial thing, my dad's all worried about further strained relations between the countries who want to deal with him...just as long as the US doesnt get him...us biased pigs

Meh. He can't be as dumb as the old Prime Minister, and even he only managed to get Canada into a few scandals. We'll have to see.

Hehe! It's Saddanta!

Hopefully Bush will do something totally stupic, extinguishing his chances of re-election. Candice, you're welcome to stay with me in Canada!

you've just gotta wonder, though. is it really him? i mean, NO ONE smart enough to become the dictator over a country for so long would hide so close to his home-town. look, i know i sound like a conspircay nut, but it really just doesn't seem like anyone that smart would do that.


or, of course, there is the more plausible possibility that we've had him for a long time now and staged a capture just as bush's approval rating goes down the tubes.

"Leave the dog to the Iraqi people. He has caused crimes against them that can never truly be repaired, but the joy of seeing his blood spill ould be a welcome sight to many an Iraqi. You are right Commie, he is not the US, therefore we should have no obligation to treat him humanely."

well, i'm glad there's no one with your views on treating prisoners running our country. oh, wait, there is.

"May the new government in IRaq be one of freedom and peace. Now that the past has been dealt with the future can be planned."

you honestly believe that all of a sudden everything will be all peaceful and free? gimme a break. iraq is STILL under complete military rule. there are STILL terrorist attacks. there are STILL US soldiers killing more iraqis, civilians and militants. which contintues the cycle (US soldiers kill the iraqis, iraqis get angry, some of those iraqis fight in their resistance 'movement' (because that's what they are, a rebellion. they're just trying to drive an invading army out, just like we would do if we wre invaded), they attack US soldiers, US soldiers retaliate killing some iraqi civilians in the process, some of the iraqis that saw that hate the US even more and attack our soldiers)
the one thing worse for an invading army than a leader people see as a symbol and rally behind/for is when he becomes a martyr

Man is too stupid to understand the enlightenment, too greedy, too foolish.

An no, he doesn't deserve humane treatment, but not because he is not a US citizen, but because he is an enemy of the american and iraqi people who slaughtered millions. Our citizens don't slaughter millions, and if they did, I would treat them the same way. If you misunderstood, that should clear you up.

And before you can say "Neo-Conservative", Sir Maxerpopple goes and redeems himself.

[/sarcasm]

Really, I just feel too sickened by that point of view to argue against it in a civilised manner. Think about the consequences of your attitude to human rights, and maybe you'll see the link between Neo-Conservative views like the ones you just expressed and September 11th.

When I first saw the topic on Yahoo! when I checked my mail this morning I was like, "Oh boy, here it comes!" and I ran off to Matazone. xD Too bad I got here so late, or I would've started debating earlier...

Anyways. Complete agreement (again ; *sigh*) with gerbs on this one... And I admit the first thing I thought, too, was "Are they sure it's really him?!" since he has like, what, 20 clones or something wierd? But then my mum said they'd done a DNA test and found out it was him, so I guess there's no hope in that.

One of my largest worries is that this success will go to the public and then the American public will re-elect Bush simply because of his "stopping terrorism" by capturing Saddam Hussein and everything will be all happy and la dee dah again. Of course, there's not a huge amount of competition for the presidency either way from any party, so it's almost a given he will be re-elected in 2004 but I always must keep up hope. If he were to be re-elected, I would move if I could, but I'm a minor and still in highschool, so I guess that won't work.

I also don't believe that Saddam should be treated inhumanely, even for all of the horrible deeds that he has done to the Iraqi people. If we're still the United States anymore, we won't give him the death penalty or anything of the sort until he has been officially charged in a court of law. And if, God forbid, he is given the death penalty, I personally will not be running about yelling in a sing-song voice, "YAY SADDAM IS DEEEEAAAD~! YAY SADDAM IS DEEEEAAAAD~!" because that's ridiculous and unmerciful. One of the most important things in life is to learn to forgive. Not forgive and forget, just forgive.

What else... *thinks hard* Ah yes, the other topic gerbs brought up. Whoever said the following -- "May the new government in IRaq be one of freedom and peace. Now that the past has been dealt with the future can be planned."

Do you honestly believe that we are given complete exposure to the situation at hand? The media is being heavily filtered thanks to the order of Mr. Bush, and we aren't getting half of the bad stuff because supposedly it would be too emotionally upsetting or depressing. I would rather have the truth, but hey, whatever. There are *still* our soldiers all over the bloody place keeping the Iraqis under military rule; there are still attacks going on and soilders and civilians alike being killed. Don't be foolish and think it will be a snap to repair. With Bush behind the wheel, we'll be lucky if it's under 5 years. Furthermore, we've given up on situations like this before. Anyone recall what happened in Afghanistan? The US keeps making promises it most likely will not keep, unfortunately, even to those that need help desperately - whether from us or others.

My, that was one long post... o_o; Hope I actually said something worth your time in it... <3

"Man is too stupid to understand the enlightenment, too greedy, too foolish."

remember that you're included in that catagory, and that point has no meaning in this debate.

"An no, he doesn't deserve humane treatment"

[sarcasm] yeah, why don't we just make him a martyr and give a lot of people MORE incentive to attack us? yeah, that's really a great idea[/sarcasm]

"but not because he is not a US citizen but because he is an enemy of the american and iraqi people"

since when were you allowed to speak for the iraqi people? it's not like all the iraqis wanted him gone, y'know.

"who slaughtered millions."

no, the correct number is, i believe, between 10 and 20 thousand. not that that's a good thing or anything (he's still a murdering SOB), but let's just get our facts straight. [edit] never mind, apparently it's much higher. might not be a million (i'm going by what other people've said now), but it's much higher than that [/edit]

"Our citizens don't slaughter millions"

neither did saddam. see previous point. [edit] same as before [/edit]


oh, and did you consider that the death penalty is more of a blessing to him than a curse? if you want someone to be treated as inhumanely as possible, you lock them in solitary confinement for life/torture them at random intervals, not kill them.

I just like to see a tyrant meet his end.

If anyone says that he deserves fair human rights, they can just listen to on family saddam has destroyed.

Most people here in the US appreciate human rights, but we only grant them to those who beleive in them. It's called just deserts, and saddam deserves the most horrile death imaginable.

Well said. People should not be able to get away with the shite saddam did without paying for it. You want a fair trial? I think the fairest thing would be to turn him over to the relatives of the people he and his sons sadistically butchered. That would be pretty fair.

Byebye saddam. You stupid arse.

*zesty leaves debate forever with her ikkle american flags in hand*

I don't think gerbs is saying that Saddam Hussein should be "let off" for all of his doings or "without paying for it" but rather ( correct me if I'm wrong, please x_x; ) some other form of punishment that is both fair and yet punishment...

And secondly, to elaborate on the other point he brought up -- the death penalty as the most severe punishment of all. Is it truly a curse to him? We'd be losing all the information and proof of one of the most influential men of today. Unfortunate, but true. Maybe he would even *enjoy* being dead because then he would be permenantly off the hook instead of waiting around for his death to come in prision and feel the guilt that is worthy of him. I mean, seriously, death just gets it done and over with. Do we really want that?

yep, you're right. i don't think he should be let off. i think he should get to rot in a jail cell AFTER a fair trial (come on, do you honestly think he'll get aquitted?), and get to stew over what he's done. he wouldn't be in solitary confinement, obviously, but he'd be ostracised by every single inmate in the prison, if not killed by one of them. see, by getting imprisoned, then he's really been 'beaten'. if you kill him, he KNOWS that he'll be a martyr to MANY people and will go to his death willingly. however, it's hard to martyr a man who dies of natural causes at a nice old age. THAT will be the one and only thing that finally 'beat' him.


oh, and how is saddam an enemy of the american people? he [edit], post gulf-war, [/edit] never was, and never would have been a threat to us or our allies, so why is he our enemy? and don't give me this 'all non-democracies/republics are an enemy of the american people' crap. saudi arabia is our ALLY, and they're an oppressive monarchy that openly supports terrorism. they've probably caused somewhat close to the amount of deaths that saddam has. [edit] i'm unsure about this now, simply because i don't know how many people saddam killed. the saudis support all palestinean terrorism (they pay $35,000 to the families of suicide bombers), massacered between 30 and 50 thousand palestineans (i can't remember the exact number. i might be totally off, but i doubt it) after israel was founded and the palestinaens tried to get into saudi arabia, so that already brings the number pretty damn high. [/edit] so why haven't we invaded THEM? and could it POSSIBLY have ANYTHING to do with the fact that they give us as much oil as we are willing to buy?

[sarcasm] oh, no, of course not. i forgot, the bush administration cares nothing about oil. silly me. [/sarcasm]

He tried to assasinate our president George Bush Sr.

bah, i meant post-gulf war.....

ok, change that to 'isn't, and never would have been'. post-gulf war, he couldn't do jacksh*t.

That's why we should revoke the 8th ammedment!

It's hard to be a martyr when your death was hangng by the scrotum.

i'll treat that post as a joke...... because any other way of interpreting it is......... *trails off*


because it's damn easy to be a martyr when being hanged. from ANY part of your body, let alone by your scrotum. ugh.

Now now, let's play nice in the forum. Debate > Personal Attacks.

Okay. I must have have missed something because I was sure the whole point we invaded Iraq was because Hussein was doing nasty things like, let's say, MURDERING PEOPLE. Killing somebody unless it is in self-defence and without due process of the law IS MURDER. Plain and simple. How can we invade a country ostensibly to bring justice, and then deny justice to the conquered?

No, the United States government, despite being the most powerful government on the planet, does not have the authority to grant and remove human rights. Human rights, according to the Enlightenment, are innate and can only be respected or violated, not granted or removed. Saddam, though the thought may dismay you, has the same human rights as the rest of us. He may have committed innumerable atrocities, but that does not remove his basic rights.

The United States wants security through the removal of the threat of terrorism. How can it hope to prevent terrorism if all it does is continuously use double-standards throughout the world? Double-standards make people angry. Double-standards make people think the USA doesn't really care about freedom or justice. Double-standards make people hate the United States. Murdering Saddam Hussein would be absolute proof of the United States' double-standards, and of its disregard for human rights and justice. An extra-judicial killing of Saddam Hussein would make him a martyr not only for the Baathist terrorists in Iraq, but for anti-Americans everywhere.

You may be disgusted by Saddam's inhumane treatment of his own people, but by treating him inhumanely in response you commit an act of the grossest hypocrisy. You cannot, must not - for your own safety - treat Saddam like an animal. Saddam must be subjected to justice, to humane treatment. We must show our mercy, we must show how we value the rule of law, how we value human rights. Otherwise we are no better Hussein himself, and we all deserve to die.

Yeah.. Sadam may be a murdering F@!k head.. but for the US to go in, destroy this country in the name of WMD, oh yeah since there are NO WMD we will make that to freeing the Iraqi people, I do believe that the hanging of one by there testicles may be a bit hypocritical. Considering we came into they’re country with the sword of Christian justice flaming over our heads..
IMO, wait until the Iraqi government is set up and running, then let the Iraqi people handle this. This is not a US matter. It never was a US matter. Now we must clean it up and leave. The fact that such disregard of life that is being expressed on the board is disturbing. Especially considering it is the same disregard of life that he showed his own people. Are we not better than that? Considering that being better than a murdering f!@k head is the reason most of you believe that we invaded there country in the first place.

Very valid point here... if the US forces take control of Saddams prosecution and possible execution then his supporters and just about everyone with anti - American sypathies will all feel that this is simply the victor's rule being imposed, and isn't real justice.

He should be tried in an International Human Rights Tribunal based in Iraq (the International Criminal Court would have been an ideal place to try him but the US doesn't like the ICC as it might find against US soldiers currently posted in various countries).

He should be tried before a panel of Iraqi judges (if there are any who are free from any taint of the old regieme) with international judges appointed from the UN to assist and add credibility to the matter.



He's not that much of an enemy to the American people. He attempted to have Pres. Bush Snr assasinated... but then this was in retaliation to Pres. Bush Snr trying to have Saddam assasinated previously. The CIA admited to attemptingto recruit senior Iraqi officials to murder Saddam and his sons. The British SIS (MI6) also admitted to a limited campaign to do the same. Both failled miserably and led to at least several hundered Iraq army officers being killed, over a ten year period. Certainly he an enemy of the people of Iran and Kuwait... and most definately an enemy of the many (but not all) people in Iraq itself.



As a point to note Saddam is responsible for the deaths of at the very least a million people...

Ranging from those killed in the conflicts he has engaged Iraq in (invasion of Iran and then Kuwait and the resulting Desert Storm)...

The mass ethnic cleansing of his own people (in particular the ethnic minorities - Kurds, Christians, Marsh Arabs and others, and the Majority Shia Muslems in the South) - this through bombing campaigns using bio-chemical weapons in the North, and the construction of dams in the South that effectiviely destroyed the lives of the Marsh Arabs... and the harsh military reprisals in the southern cities such as Basra against the Shias.

Then there is the apparatus of state terror with the of thousands of people who have disapeared over the decades he was in power... many of whom were inprisoned without trial and then executed to make sapce for the new batches of prisoners that were flooding in throughout, from the 70's until the invasion where thousands more were killed before coalition troops got close to releasing them.
______________

There are a lot of consiparcy theories ranging, certainly the suggestion that this is one of the official look-a-likes (who has been filmed impersonating Saddam) is a possibilty.

The timing is significant... though maybe less so for Bush during this early stage of the Primaries (if it was staged and occurred later at a more crucial point in the election then there would be CLEAR disbelief which could backfire against Bush)...

The timing is significant for Iraq, not the US. There were significant reports that there was going to be a revolt by the Iraqi army and large parts of the Police force over the US handling of the country.

There have already been mass protests by former Civil Servants, strikes by workers and a few police, mass desertions by the new army in training and civilian riots in many cities.

If there was going to be a more organised and effective revolt - then the capture of Saddam would go a long way in relieving many of the people who would have struck out against the continued US military presence.

He should get a fair trial and fair punishment. I'm usually against the death penalty because I have doubts about the existence of absolute proof in too many cases, but since there is no doubt about his guilt this one is a bit more ambiguous. I think that a more fitting punishment would be to spend his life in jail while Iraq rebuilds itself around him.

In my opinion he should definitely be tried in Iraq, or a neutral country. Not the US (if only for security reasons!).

Oh, while I'm here, Gerb I have to contradict you, there have been several hundred mass graves discovered by troops of people that have been a victim of Saddam's orders. The current estimate is in the region of 300,000 people in those graves alone. It's still not 'millions' but it's a lot higher then the 20-30,000 figure you mentioned.