This is an article in "citizens voice" in my local newspaper


Now look at another citizens reply



This just insults me to know that a child my age has the guts to ask for money from a city that is in dire need of it. Too much growth in the past decade or so left the city's infastructure in shambles. And, they dont have the balls to sacrifice little luxuries that don't matter.

What makes it worse is the school they go to is no average school, it's a private one, and from seeing the cars their parents drive during sports events there I Knowthat they are freakin rich.
These kids seriously need to get a hold on reality, otherwise it's just gonna slap em in the face.

My sister had to raise money herself for a similar trip to DC her sophomore year of high school.

My parents pitched in what they could, and she got a job, but most of the money did come from local businesses.

I see nothing wrong with this whatsoever. It wasn't a little luxury that didn't matter. It wasn't a school trip for her though, it was for SADD.

And just because they go to a private school doesn't mean they are rich. They could just have parents who make sacrifices to give their children the best education they can...and they may believe that is private school. Unless you have seen every single one of their parents' vehicles, houses, etc, you really can't comment on their financial status.

I completely agree with Candice. A lot of parents sacrifice a hell of a lot to send their children to the best schools. Sure you may have a look at their parent's vehicles, but even then that is a poor judge on their financial situation. Just cause they drive nice cars does not necessarily mean that they are rich. Some could have recently fallen onto hard times etc etc

meh that's what I think anyhoo

Aysha xxx

Aysha is right... some people get themselves in debt up to the eyeballs just to have a nice car and house, and to send their kids to a decent school. They may look loaded, but you can bet they hang on to their jobs for dear life, in fear of the Repo Man! (Dun dun duuuuuuuuuuuun!!)

On the other hand, I met this couple some years ago, right scruffy pair of buggers they were. He was all messy hair, unkempt beard and dirty Arran sweater, she was poor haircut, dyed roots ( ), cheap stillettoes and accent that grated worse than a rasp file against an iron bar. Their car was a 1978 BMW that had almost 300000 miles on the clock and looked like it was fit for the scrap heap. They lived in a mid-terraced house on a busy main road, which was pretty unremarkable. They had one child, she went to a comprehensive school. But these guys were seriously minted! He made money on property, and he used his cash to buy houses outright. Then he'd sell them at a profit every time the housing market shifted upwards (as it's wont to do in the UK on a regular basis). I don't think either of them actually worked, come to think of it...

Ok, I think the point here is, why are they "asking" for donations from sponsors for what is in all intents and purposes a "luxury". Something that not all people in their lifetime may ever take in the first place.

Let's not quibble over how they got to the school they are and what cars they own.

Speaking in general, here in Texas. Any student, regardless of the school system and the type of institution, the students, parents and faculty plan and execute fundraisers for such excursions. These trips are a privilage, not a right.

And "asking" for sponsorship out of the kindness of a person's or companys - regardless of size- heart for a "privilage" is not a very good idea. It doesn't matter how rich or poor they are.

However, in true atruistic ventures, such as raising money for food, shelter, clothing or medicine, a "right" in it's own, is the correct thing to do.

Sort of the equivalent of using state money to buy families a car. It's a little out of the scope of reality.

I agree with the respondant's reply to the request for donation, in the examples given.

Interesting... And it's true what everyone's been saying, about how hard parents actually work to put their kids through a really good school and provide for them, but I'm sure 3 times is enough to hear about it, ne? You really can't judge anyone's financial situation by what they drive, or what clothes they wear. It's like judging a book by its cover. Same concept.

And honestly, I would prefer you left the fact that they go to a private school out of it. I do too. So? Enough people assume things about private-school students, and you just proved one of their assumptions. You presumed that because they go to private school, they're "rich." A ton of people that go to my school are on scholarship and wouldn't be able to go without it. And sure, sacrificing things is fine, one less CD here and there la dee daa, but it's not always going to turn out alright. Sometimes that doesn't cut it. $1,500 is a lot of money, y'know? Not every single private-school student is in the same financial situation as another. I don't mean to sound all attack-like or anything if I do, really I don't, but these are just facts to consider...

Again, the point of the act of asking for any donations for such a "cause" is being missed. Honestly, if it were a poor school, I wouldn't change my mind. it's a privilage, just like owning a car and driving it on the streets is a privilage. Not a right.

You have to keep those two things in focus here.

I never implied that it was a "right." But I don't think it's exactly a luxury either. They aren't going just for the fun of it.

Asking for donations from local companies for an educational trip is not out of the question.

Of course groups like this one do fundraisers as well. But when there are a lot of kids going, and each has to raise $1,500...which really is a lot of money for any kid to raise doing car washes and candy sales and an after school job (if they can find one. Most can't in my town). My sister got several scholarships for the trip she went on, but she still had to end up asking local companies for assistance...even with her job and my parents helping as much as they could and all the other odd jobs that she did. There's nothing wrong with this. If the companies can afford it, they'll give. There's no obligation for them to do so if they can't. I really don't see the problem with this, as long as it's only the students who are most in need that are asking.

You use the comparison of how it's a privilege to own and drive a car, not a right. Well, some people get highly discounted cars from Goodwill. I don't see the difference between that and getting assistance for an educational trip (and by the way, that orange font is maddeningly hard to read, fyi ).

aye. Wes, I can see what you mean but you can't assume that this is the only way he is going to raise the money. Its just something additional. Again like what candice said... Dammit - you're getting there before me

Aysha xxx

Okay, simple definition for "right"; A service or product that is essential for the livelihood of a human being. (Food, Shelter, Clothing, Transportation and Medicine)

Definition for a "privilage"; A service or product that can enhance or provide additional comfort.

Now, by my example, it's a given in today's society you need to move from point 'A' to point 'B' to get things done. So, transportation is certainly a right, but... the means by which we transport ourselves that sets the privilage.

I can use public transportion, walk, or take a ride to work, shop, go to the doctor, whichever. (right)

Or... I can save up and get a low Ford model car, used and banged up, and after ward... get say um, A Merceded Benz S Class once I saved up for it, or earn enough to afford a downpayment and the monthly payments It's something I earn. On my own effort. Because I don't want to use public transportation, ride a bike, or get a ride with someone. (privilage)


But, I was pointing out that fact because ANY trip to any part of the world for an "educational" purpose is still very much a privilage. Not a necessity. It's something nice to do. Not something you HAVE to do.

That's why people with money to spend that can jet set across the world in a day are called "privilaged".

I was lucky to live in Texas, Houston at the time, and be able to drive to San Antonio, where the "ALAMO" a very historic and state held sacred place for a class trip. But, we ddin't HAVE to go there. It was nice. But we learned of it just the same.

Ok, my class wants to go see the Cistine Chapel, I am sure Bill Gates (Microsoft) and Steve Jobs (Apple) would understand us writing to them and asking for donations. for us all since it's the trip of a lifetime for anyone in the world as it is.

No? How dare they say no and deprive us of our trip! (I am over exagerrating of course) I never take any one thing too seriously , except for some things obviously, and I meant it in no way as a personal insult, Candice.

So, if it seemed that way, it wasn't. :: hug attack ::

I just wanted to keep the focus on the act of asking for money because they WANTED to go (as opposed to NEEDING to go), and someone replied negatively, to some opinions, but as you said it's the would be sponsors option to do so.

But the point of the thread I see lies in the nature of what the money was requested for, not the request itself.



So... that was all... don't hit me!

Sure, he doesn't need to go, but everyone has a right to want to no? The companies in question also don't need to donate any money, but they may want to. Its a free choice.

I make no assumptions that this would have been the ONLY way they were going to raise money. My point stands. Don't ASK for money for a trip, just for the sake of making a trip. Education? Sure, but not necessary.

But, the focus was the fact that the request was made for that reason alone in the first place. For what really is a not essential reason. Now, A school group of kids in a band , a play or something with a real career purpose. That is different. Pick your battles here, now.

If you guys think this is an honorable and worthy cause, fine, I don't really see the need to ship kids across the nation to see something NOW, I haven't seen Washington DC either, but we didn't ask people or companies to please give money for us to go? It's about earning here. Not just asking. Now, I just earned enough to go see Washington DC this June. So, many kids won't get to see a lot of things.

Oh, well!

I take into account my background. I earned everything I have since i left home since I was 14. That changes your perpective on priorities a lot. believe me. I am not bitter. And besides, this is my opinion, and you can disagree. And I love you all for it. Gosh this be a damn boring place if everyone agreed?

well, i don't think there's anything wrong with this person asking for money for the trip. regardless of whether he's rich or poor, if people would rather give money so that some people can go visit DC than give it to people who really need it, that's their buisness. it's up to the donor to choose where the money goes, and i'm confident that most people (excluding those people going on the trip/related to those people/who know those people) will give their money to the people that really need it.

and, since we've apparently branched into the 'being in private school means you're rich' topic; that's not necessarily true. in fact, it's really about even overall for private schools. different private schools require different amounts of tuition. not all private schools require $30,000 (or something like that) per year. plus there's scholarships.

True. A lot of Kids I was with , private Catholic school, the families had to work hard to meet the monthly tuition, which really wasn't that much for the normal family. But for a lot of the families it was a huge sacrifice.

These kids should be working for their trips, I agree with the uy in the letter. Odd jobs, car washes, bake sales, they can raise it themselves. That would make the trip a trip of a lifetime.

Yes, Earn it.

I can't imagine how many people would get bombarded for donation requests for anyone that want to take a trip. It would be nightmare-ish. Sometimes we need to think of the implications of such an action.

See beyond our noses if you will.

As a student at a private, elite boarding high school, I would like to reiterate that although there are rich smart kids there, there are also a good number of us, including myself, who are on partial or total scholarship. My mother works at Wal-Mart and my father's child-support money is the reason bills get paid in this house sometimes, if that gives you any idea as to our financial situation. The case is similar for a good number of our students. Then again, there was one girl who was moved in by her family's nanny. So although "richness" is more likely to be found in a private school, it is not, by any means, widespread.

Anyway. Most companies have a certain amount of "donation" money that they give to charitable causes for tax deductions at the end of the year, as I understand it, so it really doesn't strike me as odd that a student group would ask for corperate sponsorship.

I do believe that the students should do what they can, job-wise, to help pay for their own trip, but let's face it - 8th graders are 13-14 years old, most of the time. It is near-impossible to be employed at that age, child-labor laws prevent them from working many hours at all, and most places wouldn't hire them anyway, especially in this downturned economy - jobs that use to employ teenagers are moving towards hiring adults just because there are more people desperately needing the income, and adults can work longer and do more jobs under the current laws...

Car washes, bake sales, that sort of thing would be plausible but I doubt it would cover all $1,500. In this case I see no reason that the students shouldn't ask for corperate sponsorship. If they don't get money because there is none, that's the way it is, but I certainly can't blame them for asking.

/end rant.

I had to raise a lot of money to go on a trip to Disney World in Florida with the orchestra at my school. (I live in NY and we took a bus...) I did it myself, selling candy, boxes of fruit, cookies with strange names, and other things. If that kid wants to go bad enough, he should sell stuff instead of being lazy and asking other people for money.

People like that make me mad.

It's not being lazy.

For goodness sake.

Honestly, you expect each kid to raise $1,500 doing car washes, bake sales, etc? Come on now. Let's be a bit realistic here.

What makes me mad is people who automatically call anyone who asks for the slightest bit of help from anyone "lazy." That's just narrow-minded, and reminds me of a debate we once had on TANF in here that ended up making many people quite angry.

Obviously the kids will do what they can to make money with fundraisers, but as Missy mentioned...that only goes so far and many kids who go on trips like this aren't old enough to get an actual after-school job. Any kid who doesn't commit effort to fundraisers won't get enough to go just on corporate sponsorships.

For goodness sakes, no one said that they weren't working to earn part of their trip! Stop assuming that they're lazy little kids, give them the benefit of the doubt that they are mature enough to understand that it is a opportunity and not a right to go on their trip and are doing everything they can on their own, just as we all agree that they should.

Perhaps the child should have mentione din his article he was already doing odd jobs and such, but that it simply couldn't suffice, and he needs some money in another way. That would clear up alot of the confusion in people.

Or they could become temporary prostitutes and if they are lucky in a few weeks they would have enough money.

That would have been a good idea, probably. It'd be good to know that the kid was doing all he could, but just couldn't come up with enough money. I know that'd make me more willing to donate to them if I was a business owner.

What city is that? That is sick... that is an absurd amount of money.. he could use some back up information, at least...

That's private school for ya. Err, reminds me of chammietown.

If that were the case. I would've never posted this

It's understandable to me to want help raising money for trips and what-not but how is a different story. If this is a private school (or even a public one for that matter) then they should try fundraising (car washes, bake sales, etc.) and private donations to fund this. It takes a lot of gall to ask for public funds to pay for a class trip. It makes me recall all the fundraisings that the organizations at my high school have done ("Adopt a Wrestler," bake sales for the band, selling candy for the Thespians, etc.) and how we never asked for public money for these things. This is especially offensive if this is a wealthy private school. If one can afford to put your kid in a top-of-the-class institution, then it shouldn't be to hard to shell out some cash to send the bastard on a field trip.

To clearify my opinion.
Iv'e nothing wrong with the trip to D.C.

But in no way did she state that she was working for the money.

Said school is only private because it is outside of the district, in an area of multi million dollar homes and suvs.They are only members of the city because said city is the closest to them.

Don't forget that this isn't just one child at this school. The group going should be well over 50, which means it will at least cost $75,000

And finally...
The girl is unkowing of the staus of the source which she asks for funds.

The city's economy is in its most terrible shape since the last world war. It is thought that a good number of city officials are corrupt, and making the city poorer. And in such a situation the city would never be able to fork over that much money.

but righteous, as has been said repeatedly, bake sales and such don't exactly cover $1,500 PER STUDENT (and about how many students would be going on this trip? it could be anywhere from 5 to 50). heck, it'd take a lot of bake sales and such to reach $1,500 PERIOD.

Then there's what missy brought up; with the economy the way it is along with child labor laws, 'odd jobs' are getting fewer and further between (not to mention that they can't pay above minumum wage. Coming from a person who is currently IN one of those 'odd jobs', it might seem like a lot of money at first, but erm.... i've been doing this 'odd job' for 1 1/2 years now, and it's made me a grand total of something like $600, if that).

Plus it's entirely up to the donors themselves to decide where their money should go. Saying "It takes a lot of gall to ask for public funds to pay for a class trip." doesn't make any sense to me. They're entitled to ask, and i can't see how you can find anything wrong with them asking. If your problem lies in the fact that they're actually RECIEVING donations from a corperation (btw: is it a private corperation? Do you actually know if they're asking for PUBLIC funds?), then you're blame should be directed to the DONORS who give them the money instead of the Salvation Army or the Red Cross or any other charity (well, maybe not the Red Cross, considering how they manage their money..... but that's a different story altogether).

Can someone answer me this: what is so sick about ASKING for money, whether you need it or not? Aren't you entitled (not only by the constitution, but by general human decency) to ask for something? I mean, whether you actually GET what you're asking for is a different story altogether. This person placed a nice, civil request and got denied. Not entirely civily, but denied nonetheless. What's so terrible about that? It's not like he stole the money, if someone wants to give it to him, it's their buisness. Nothing is 'sick' about asking for money.

And then, of course, exactly where do you draw the line? What request is 'too sick' to ask money for? Exactly how much money do you have to make when you suddenly lose the right to ask for money? Or maybe it's just that if you go to a private school, you're automatically considered rich and shouldn't ask for money because you can automatically afford it.

"If one can afford to put your kid in a top-of-the-class institution, then it shouldn't be to hard to shell out some cash to send the bastard on a field trip."

I'm not sure where to begin with this.....

1.) Contrary to popular belief, not all private schools cost $50,000 per year.
*gasp*
WHAT?! Does that mean that there are private schools out there that middle and very often lower middle class people can afford without a scholarship?!

Yes. Yes it does. And it's time people started accepting that.

2.) $1,500 isn't 'some cash' to almost anyone. Hell, I'M rich and no way in hell would me or anyone in my family (or anyone i KNOW, and i know some REALLY rich people) just shell out $1,500 just like that. I doubt even Bill Gates and Donald Trump throw away $1,500 without a second thought.

3.) The whole 'bastard' thing. Look, i know that you MAY have said that because you're just angry at the kids. But, especially with comments like 'stoopid rich brats' preceding it, AND because whenever you want to stereotype a rich person, you call them 'rich brats' or 'rich bastards', I think that there's at least a little resentment that this person MAY be rich and is asking for money.

4.) Once again, 'scholarships'.

5.) How do you know that this is a 'top-of-the-class institution'? Did you just make that assumption off of the top of your head so that these kids can fit into the stereotype of 'rich brats'? Because i personally didn't see anything in that article that eluded to these kids going to the richest of the rich private schools. Or even a normal private school. You don't know, and i don't know, so neither of us should make assumptions. These kids may very well be the stereotypical rich brats, but there's no point in assuming that they are.

"(car washes, bake sales, etc.) and private donations to fund this"

Asking a private company for money and them giving it to you IS a private donation.

In my opininon, people can do with their money what they want, and although it is selfish, it's not our say to dictate what money should and shouldn't be given.

Perhaps the OPer should have mentioned this in his post, would have cleared things up.

It is most likely that the petitioner is looking for private money within the these corperations anyway, and I'm with Ocean - who is anyone to argue with what is done with private money?

Also, I'd like to pose another question:

If the children in question were from a public school, would you all be throwing your hands up and screaming "Absolutely Not, You Shouldn't Get Money!!!"? Because if your answer to that is "No, that's different", then you're guilty of discrimination based on socioeconomic status, and you ought to be bloody ashamed of yourself.

I don't give anyone money because I'm selfish and cheap. And why should I? I have no obligation, unless they are a really good friend and I know they will pay me back. I help my friends, but not people I don't know.

Has anyone considered the possibility that the request may have been pretty hard to fullfill in the first place?


I can't believe some of you guys actually comtemplate the situation as a matter of right by constitution. (Even assuming it's in the US) No, I really can't understand why we have rights to ask people for stuff that most certainly isn't necessary, for the sake of asking. I mean we can ask, as a matter of free speech. And some of you probably do from time to time. But this is what seperates mature and considerate people from the ones that are out of touch with reality.

I gave perfectly good examples of what a need and a privilige is. I agree that the guy could have given one crisp dollar to the effort. But, what's being implied in most of the posts here is that we're going to be just asking for things because we CAN. so when do we learn the value of what we need versus what we wish we can do or have?

If you can't see that, then I am having a definate problem with that way of thinking. This is why the medicare system in the US is in trouble precisely. Ask, ask, ask. Sometimes handouts are not the answer. Have we lost our sense of priority and reality?

Ok, so if I ask someone for food, let's go ahead and ask them for a plasma screen?

No, I don't think so.

Come on. Let's think here. everyone is falling under two assumptions here. That the kids are too rich, or that they are too poor. Actually, [U]even if they were in the middle. Not a good idea for young kids to just ASK for money for a trip, that quite frankly isn't really going to teach them anything differently than what a kid in japan reading the same text book would. Do you guys understand what I am trying to say here?

So, great if they are doing other things to reach their goal. But quite frankly it seemed perfectly clear it was improbable in the first place. The plan for a trip needed to be reviewed and maybe even scrapped or just make it a long term goal. Did anyone pick up the fact that the citizenship as a whole is in need of money itself?

Just because we can, doesn't mean we should.

There's one question that's on me mind that bugs me somewhat...

How on earth is this trip costing $1500 per student? Are they flying in from the Midwest or something?? I can go on a two week vacation to Malta for just over £300 (about $450), so I don't understand what's occuring here.

Given there's 50 kids (in theory) going on this trip, then surely the school should be negotiating some sort of discount to make it more feasible? If this truly is an educational trip, then this should be heavily slashed in the name of education. Or does the US not work that way?

"Has anyone considered the possibility that the request may have been pretty hard to fullfill in the first place?"

Of course. $1500 is a lot of money. That's why they probably asked more than one person.

"I can't believe some of you guys actually comtemplate the situation as a matter of right by constitution. (Even assuming it's in the US)"

Well, it is. and besides, I brought that up as a side-note.

"No, I really can't understand why we have rights to ask people for stuff that most certainly isn't necessary, for the sake of asking."

1.) They're asking for the sake of going on this trip, not for the sake of asking.
2.) Well, whether you understand why we have these rights or not, you must admit that we have them.

"I mean we can ask, as a matter of free speech. And some of you probably do from time to time."

m-hm, can't argue with that.

"But this is what seperates mature and considerate people from the ones that are out of touch with reality."

I'd say which group was which, but I think I'll just leave this alone.

"I gave perfectly good examples of what a need and a privilige is."

Look, as I've said before, does it MATTER whether this is a need or a privilege. It's up to the donor to say that he won't give the money. It's not like they were swarming him and begging for it, they just sent him a letter. He sent a reply saying that he wouldn't give money. Simple.

"I agree that the guy could have given one crisp dollar to the effort."

So then what's your problem with kids asking for money then? You just said that you have no problem with him giving ONE dollar, so how about two? Or three? Just how much money is too much?

"But, what's being implied in most of the posts here is that we're going to be just asking for things because we CAN."

These people want a trip, they may or may not be doing other things to get it, and they ask for money to sponsor it. I'm not saying that everyone SHOULD go around asking for everything just because, but that there's nothing wrong with it if they do.

"so when do we learn the value of what we need versus what we wish we can do or have?"

It's not up to the asker to understand that value, it's up to the person who decides where his money is donated to. It's not like all the charity organizations suddenly dissapear at the exact moment that you ask for money.

"If you can't see that, then I am having a definate problem with that way of thinking."

I can see that something you NEED has a higher value than something you WANT. But YOU'RE saying that people shouldn't (by moral, not law) even be allowed to give money to someone when they WANT to buy something, and not when they need it.

"This is why the medicare system in the US is in trouble precisely."

I always thought it was in trouble because it's severely under-funded, ill-managed, and is being taken over by HMOs. Silly me.....

"Ask, ask, ask."

Would you perfer them to steal, steal, steal?

"Sometimes handouts are not the answer."

I thought it was a letter, not a handout.

"Have we lost our sense of priority and reality?"

Nope. I've still got my sense of reality. And as for priority, i know that things you need take a higher precedence than things you want. But I also know that I'm more than entitled to get something I want, whether by buying it myself or asking for it.

"Ok, so if I ask someone for food, let's go ahead and ask them for a plasma screen?

No, I don't think so."

Go ahead. Honestly, go ahead. My point is is that you're not very likely to get the plasma screen. So no harm done, no?

"Come on. Let's think here. everyone is falling under two assumptions here. That the kids are too rich, or that they are too poor."

I don't think either. These kids could be rich, poor, or in-between. What I've been saying is that there's no way of knowing, so WHAT IF they weren't as rich as some people have assumed. I'm not saying that they're automatically NOT rich, just that they MIGHT NOT be rich.

"Not a good idea for young kids to just ASK for money for a trip,"

Oh? And what's wrong with that? And, once again, how do you know that they weren't doing anything else to raise money?

Look, it's not up to you to decide whether or not someone can ask for money. It's up to that person.

"that quite frankly isn't really going to teach them anything differently than what a kid in japan reading the same text book would."

Actually, that's not true. You learn a lot more by visiting a historical site than by reading about it. A few years ago, I was studying american history. After we finished the civil war, we went to Gettysburg and Anteitem. Guess what? I came back knowing a LOT more about those two battles than when i left.

"Do you guys understand what I am trying to say here?"

Yes. I just think you've missed what many of US are trying to say. I'm not saying that you MUST or even SHOULD give these kids the money. I'm not saying that what you want takes precedence over what you need. But I'm also not saying that there's nothing wrong with asking for money for any reason. As I've said SO many times before, it's up to the person GIVING the money to decide where it goes.

"So, great if they are doing other things to reach their goal. But quite frankly it seemed perfectly clear it was improbable in the first place."

Well, if it's so improbable, then what's your problem with it? I mean, if they don't get any money for it, then no harm done, right? No one gave them money, and they didn't go on the trip. It'd be just as if they didn't ask in the first place.

"The plan for a trip needed to be reviewed and maybe even scrapped or just make it a long term goal. Did anyone pick up the fact that the citizenship as a whole is in need of money itself?"

Of COURSE it is. ONCE AGAIN, I'M NOT SAING THAT IT'S NOT!
ok, let me try this again.

I know that there are millions of people that need that money more than those kids. I know that the money could've been spent otherwise, and been considered 'spent better'. Ok?

"Just because we can, doesn't mean we should."

Exactly. Just because they CAN give the kids money (after the kids've asked), doesn't mean that they SHOULD. I never said otherwise.

And if you're talking about the kids asking for money in the first place (which you are, i think), well, it's not up to you to decide what our country's morals are.

But answer me this: if I ask for some money to buy anything that I don't need (i don't care, pick something), and I don't get it, is there anything wrong with that?

No one had to give up the money that could've been given for better causes, and i didn't get money for a cause that, to you, is something i shouldn't have asked for in the first place.

And a better question: If i DO get the money, who's to blame? Me, or the person who gave me the money? Both, obviously. It's up to the donor to give me the money, just like it's up to me to ask for it. If everyone in America that was asked had your morals, then no cause not considered 'necessary' would ever be given money.

Once again, it's up to the donor to decide where the money goes.

Ok, let' not get off course here ...

I do not dictate any morals.

I am certainly not telling any one person what to do with their money.

This is an opinion over the following:

A group/class of kids - not age specific - in some city, asking a company (not an individual) for funds (of any sort or amount) to go to a trip to another City.


So, for this very particular case, it can be concluded that such a request , well within the class's right to do so , is no more than SPAM in the vast list of other non profit organizations and entities - not just a kid - that can actually benefit from a donation - of any amount-.

I have worked with non profit organizations as a volunteer , such as those that offer assistance to people with dissabilities - and other of similar kind... and competing amongst other similar organizations for the same donations, down to local retailers (as Missy pointed out earlier in a previous post companies allot some money per year ) and up the ladder to DELL computer themselves, -I'm in Austin by the way , a lot of hi-tech companies are here - and the blood sweat and sometimes tears that these people go through to get a piece of the alotted "money pie" each year competing agianst other people in the same boat for other organizations.

Now I work for a company, and I get to handle some of those donation requests.

That's all I ever wanted to say. Nothing to do at all with the kids having the right to ask or not.

Nothing to do with whether the company could or couldn't make any sort of donation.

I know most/some disagree and that my friends, is YOUR right. I was simply expressing the differences between the type of requests/priorities. Because this is my RIGHT.

I always believe in seeing things from as many points of view as possible.

Wow... Long, long posts... Almost kind of mind-boggling... Anyways, to sum up, I would say that VVes and Gerb were actually debating two different points, ne? Gerb's being that regardless of whether or not a corporation did end up funding the child's trip to D.C., it doesn't matter whether or not the child asks for help, including whether or not they are actually financially rich. Asking for help is not a bad thing whatsoever. That, and if the corporation does decide to give them money, it's up to them - no obligation is created through the letter written by the child. And I agree with you... If I said anymore, I'd start ranting, but I need to move on.

And then for VVes, you're saying that need has priority over want, no? I understand that, too. I get that you would like the kid to earn their trip, but if they've already tried that, what's the problem with asking for help? Now, if people are ashamed to ask for help, that's another issue. I don't see asking for help as being wrong. As for the letter being "SPAM" to non-profit organizations, was it specified that the letter was sent to a *non-profit* organization..? Just curious, 'cause I thought we were discussing corporations....

No, the letter wasn't sent to non-profit organizations. I highly doubt that would get the kid anywhere. I think what VVes was talking about was it was among the many letters from non-profit organizations coming into corporations.

But, oy. Hmm. When my sister asked for corporate sponsorship for her trip to DC for SADD, she didn't publish a letter in the paper. She sent individual letters to local businesses, as the people who were organizing the trip suggested to her. Asking a whole city for money does seem a bit..much. It's rather impersonal, and I doubt they'll get as many donations as my sister did.

But I still don't think the overall idea is distasteful...just the methods they chose to carry it out.

*bows to candice*

What she said , which is entirely a distilled version of mine , I tend to over explain and write myself into a corner.

// Write note to self: consult with candice before making wordy posts//

How long are they going to be in D.C? 1,500 bucks is A LOT of money for a trip to D.C. I mean i am going to D.C AND New York city for only 1200 so i guess there in like california or something? 1500? man thats a lot of money.

But i have to agree that they should get the money on their own. I have to get 1200 buy mainly fundraising. The rest is from my parents and thats about it. I don't ask for donations unless i know i tried my best to get the money and still wasn't able to get it. (btw... i'm not rich.. i'm in the middleish class... not poor... not rich, but still have money troubles.)

Yeah anyway.. its just another stupid person in America that we need to get rid of.

Yeah, exactly how much is the school making out of this?! A trip to D.C. shouldn't really cost that much at all... Well, it could if they're staying in some fancy-shmancy hotel and eating like, exquisite, exotic cuisine, but I doubt that. I mean, tickets to the local sights don't cost that much.....

The only thing is, what's even the point of sending a letter like that to non-profit organizations? I don't see where the productivity is... But anyways, thanks for clearing that up, Candice. Sometimes and loose myself in long posts and I go all cross-eyed.

And as for earning the money for themselves, Alaric, think about it - if the entire class in that grade is trying to raise $1,500 per person, that's pretty hard to get. How many bake sales etc. etc. can you hold? For all we know, maybe this person did try as much as they could, their parents can't afford it, and so now they're asking for help. Is that bad? It shouldn't be. Where the corporations of non-profit organizations spend their money is up to them, not the kid. It's not particularly reasonable, if you ask me, and the trip seems very over-priced...

People pay that much for school trips to Washington? *_+
My sister had to save up for something like that but it was in Morocco, climbing the atlas mountains and whatnot, now *that* is a "once in a lifetime opportunity". I would have done anything to be able to go on that trip with her but I can't imagine being very excited by the prospect of a trip to DC.
Anyway, the idea behind things like that is that you raise the money completely by yourself imo, it doesn't make any difference what background you have, my sisters class set up a sweet store at the school and did loads of fundraising towards it.

Most people in my band got over half to the entire trip paid off in one to two fund raisers. Yeah you have to sell a lot, but that takes work and if they arn't willing to work.. then thats their fault.

I was always taught that the worst thing that can happen to you if you ask for something is that you are told "no" I suppose there are worse things.

Don't rag on the kid for asking. There may be extenuating circumstances that prevents him from fundraising in another way, getting funding from his parents, etc. etc. etc. It's also possible that he could get money from his parents or that he or his school has enough funding to send 1000 kids on this trip. We could (and alot of people in this thread are) speculate as to his financial situation until the cows come home. Unfortunately we don't know. Don't judge the kid. You don't have all the facts and you can't know what is happening. If you don't want to give money to him for the trip then don't. If you do want to help send this little boy on a trip to his nations capital, then do. It's as simple as that. The worst thing that you can possibly say is "no"

I never said they shouldn't be willing to work for it -- I do think that they should earn it -- but if your *entire* class is also going on the exact same trip and asking people for money for the same cause, that's also quite a bit of competition and local people aren't going to spend hundreds of dollars at bakesales etc. and support every single kid. It's impossible. Another thing about fundraisers -- they can take quite a while to organize properly, and raise a lot of money. To organize it all yourself...? That's a task alone. I don't mean to bicker whatsoever, but however hard you do try, sometimes it's simply not satisfactory.

So here's a bit you may like to chew on.

I am doing a summer community service program, and one of the things they like the members to do beforehand is do a fund raising operation to raise about 300 (or 3000, I forget at the moment) dollars. The money goes to the program, and since the program does community service, the funds go to helping the less fortunate. While my parents could pay the entire amount, I see nothing wrong with sending out letters to people I know and people my parents know for assistance. My parents are paying for the program itself, which indirectly helps the less fortunate. I see no problem in sending out letters to them, asking for some help. They don't have to help if they don't want to, but htis time it really does go for a good cause.

No problem there. Seems clearly stated to be for a great cause/need.

I am sure the funds will be raised in no time, from all sorts of would be donors.

I wish you best of luck in this endeavour!