C'mon, if you think about it - it could be rather fun and rewarding. Most people will be against this, but it could have it's benefits, other than just being fun.

Instead of handing out a detention, why not give them two lashes with a cane across the palm of their hands. Teach the little nippers for not doing their homework. Or instead of some other menial chore, give them a slipper to the buttocks. Or worse, confront them with their fears (for example, if they are scared of the dark, lock them in a dark room.)

Am I just crazy?

Corporal, maybe? Yes?

"Why yes, Principal, you have permission to kill my child when he is out of line."
Methinks no.

Anywho, as for whether or not I agree with it, I'm not entirely sure. There was a report on it recently covering a school district near Lexington, KY that uses corporal punishment at the parent's discression, and it seemed to be working rather well. I wouldn't go too far with it though, as in playing on their fears (locked in a dark room). That seems a bit too sadistic for my liking.

Yeah and I wouldn't like to be changed into a pizza and chased by extreamly fat ladies.

I think it's a brillient scheme. Especially as it wont effect me. At all. Ever.

I don't think it would be effective now in this day and age, there will be more truentism (sp?) if corperol (sp?) punishment became legal which would lead to them losing the education they would have recieved even if they did get detention.

As far as corporal punishment goes, it should be let back in, but with some restrictions. I think the us is starting to see the effects of taking corporal punishment out of the school as well as taking away parental discipline. I went to a middle school where the teachers were not even allowed to give writing assignments as punishment for disrupting the classroom.

No, I don't think it teaches children anything. Causing them physical pain that has no relation to what they did is not a constructive way to handle things, I think. If someone didn't turn in their homework, what does hitting them do to solve the problem? Because homework is part of their grade, that assignment should be marked down because of lateness. Now, if the student realized that would happen, he would turn in his homework to get good grades, which is the point of homework (as well as teaching understanding of the subject.)

Capital punishment is a bit far, but aren't we horrendous criminals? I mean, if we punch somebody, and their nose bleeds, we're old enough to get a lethal injection, right? Even those lousy kindergartens know what's within the law and what isn't! (nice word switching =P)

I meant to type corporal, but had a blonde moment.

You had me rolling thinking about capital punishment in schools.

Johnny, if you're late one more time I'm sending you to the gallows.

But seriously, I think corporal punishment in schools would just get out of hand. Some teacher would beat a poor student to death, or some male teacher would end up forgetting where he left his paddle and just smack a misbehaving girl in the bottom with his hand. Something like corporal punishment can't be regulated as easily, because the system would have to be something like: "If they speak out in class once, hit em sorta hard, but if they do it again, hit em a little harder" and that sort of thing. Very strong teachers could permanently harm a child.

Corporal punishment is a good way to straighten kids out. These days there is so little the school can do to deal with an out of hand child. It could be bad if a teacher just didn't like you very much. There is almost no better way to make a kid fear you though.

But hey, these days nothing of the sort would go over.

It may be a good way of keeping the child in line but fear isn't the best thing to have around your shoulders when you are learning.

I don't know. Up until about 10 o 15 years ago, it was legal in CAnada for kids to get the strap. My uncle is a principal and so it fell on him to give the strap. He's worked in the schools for nearly 30 years and he's only had to strap two kids and both of them he felt horrible about. I think it should be discussed but only after all other methods have been tried.

If Johnny doesn't hand his homework in on time or is always late from class there are alot of things you can do before you have to resort to corporal punishment. Also for younger children, they might not even understand why they are being hit.

But should the kid fear his teachers? I personally don't fear my teachers, and I think that's a good thing. How far with children get fearing authority? That would induce self-esteem issues, too. I just don't think corporal punishment is needed, or a good idea at all.

In Africa as punishment they make a kid bury a tree, a big tree, only with the asistance of a machete. Sounds pretty effective to me.

Why not control the students through mutual respect? I go to a school that doesn't use detentions, and we apparently have the scum of all melbourne there, yet everyone gets along and there is very little disruption in class. Teachers rarely lose it at the classes. There are other ways apart from fear, hell, by that reasoning Stalin was a brilliant leader, but he killed over 26 million people.

Corporal punishment is actually the norm in Singaporean schools - usually by caning, and I mean the kind you described, not the kind they have in prisons here. Then again, this is an authoritarian society where people, particularly students in schools, are not encouraged to think at all. Students all dress the same, have the same hair colour (even if their hair is naturally a different colour, they have to dye it) and all study purely academic material that doesn't require any independent thought. It serves the government pretty well.

Call me crazy, but I don't think this is the model that schools in the rest of the world should follow. The more strict the rules and the more strict the punishment, the more rigid the society (or school) and the less people learn to think for themselves. This eventually leads to... well, a country like Singapore. And you don't want that.

Sorry, I had to have a Singapore rant in there somewhere. Overall, I agree with Juice: mutual respect is the way to go. If students are treated like responsible adults, then that's how they will act. Not all, of course, but for the most part.

If corporal punishment was brought back into schools, i'd go to teacher training. The thought of spanking all those sexy school girls .................. ahhh damn it this is in issues not daft.

Very true. Any idea how to accomplish it?

When I was starting school, teachers could hold you to some extent. When I was leaving school, teachers weren't supposed to even restrain a child. Now, some schools don't even let them single a child out if he/she is being disruptive.

I think the main problem all the way along here is common sense. Too many people don't have it, and these people don't let others use it.

I don't think a teacher should be able to beat a child, obviously. And I'm not massively in favour of corporal punishment in schools - I'm glad I wasn't at school when it was common. But I think teachers no longer have any authority and, going hand in hand with this, very little respect from pupils.

It's difficult to know what to do about it though...

I hate questions I can't answer.

Ask me about gerbils or rabbits and I can be helpful.

I would say, no, corporal punishment shouldn't be allowed in schools at all, ever. As others here have said, physical pain would teach nothing but fear, as well as the fact that it would teach the children violence and bring them physical pain. Besides, there would be more and more absences. Eventually, there would be so few people going to school that no one would learn anything and we might even plunge into the dark ages again in a few hundred years if it remained that way, so few people getting an education and all. Besides, not always is something the student's fault, for example, today I lost my homework. I was going to do it, I didn't try to lose it, I thought I had it, everything, but I still lost it. So, having my grade marked down for this tomorrow, and possibly getting a scolding from my parents, I can bring the grade up and the scolding is temporary, so, a student can still make up for it nowadays if they mess up, but say they got a permanent injury from the beating, I don't see how you can make up for that. Lastly, it would raise children in a way that they would be more prone to beating their children. So, no, I don't believe corporal punishment should be allowed.

Well, I can only prescribe everything my school does. No uniform, every wednesday is no school (they tested it the year before I came and found a massive reduction in lateness to classes, but also higher productivity), we are allowed to smoke cigarettes outside the school grounds, we are allowed to leave the school grounds whenever we want. People who disrupt the class are encouraged to not do work as long as they don't stop the class from going. We're on a first name basis with the teachers...

Basically, anyone who would end up failing and dropping out anyway doesn't turn up, leaving those people who are trying to pass to get on with life. The same people fail anyway, why make it harder on them, and on the people who want to learn by forcing the f--k ups to stay in class?

The system works unbelievably well, and they actually offer a wide range of alternative education programs, so it's not as if they are just giving up on the minority who don't ever turn up. These letters will mean nothing to non-australians, but they offer VET, VCAL as well as normal VCE. And if you want to add another 2 units onto your year 12 enter you can come back and do another subject part time after you graduate.

Yeah, for the record, I'd probably kill myself if I got kicked out of my school, by far the best in Melbourne. It's actually incentive to go straight, and at my other school, whilst I was ok academically, I was a bit of a drug dealer/political activist/terrorist

I mean...

All I'm saying is, we've got some of the worst students in the state, and they are controlled without beating them senseless. I don't know about you, but if a teacher (or anyone else) hit me I'd consider it my right to bust their head open in a very ghastly manner. My dad has only hit me once, and I floored him on general principals. Violence is only an option in defense, so why give students cause to use it?

(For the record I'm not a violent person, I've only hit maybe two people in my life, and I'm pretty a usless fighter. Corporal punishment would be far worse than the violence in video games, which is considered to be brain washing the youth of today. By hitting a kid you are giving them a first hand explanation that it's ok to hit people, that it's ok to hit people who are defensless against you. To allow it, would be monsterous, it would lead to a much more violent society than the one that is already supposedly too violent)

I'm afraid the States would never employ such tactics. The government would be too involved. Yet another reason to get the government out of our schools.

Last week we had Ms. New York come and give us a lecture on teen depression. This woman suffered from depression and ADD, and was more chipper than...well...a wood chipper on speed. HORRIBLE lecture, took away from teaching time. Typical government beaurocracy pressuring administrators to do things besides teach.

Move to Australia, land of the free

Sometimes I think that this place is a bit of a... massive hippy colony...

Far from it of course, but it seems even with the most conservative PM in our history in power, we are a tad more relaxed than everyone else. Anyway, it's a shame that the USA won't adopt these sorts of policies...

Actually, most schools here are alot worse than mine, like the one I was at last year *shudders*

I don't even want to think about how many times anti-drug programs are forced on us. They start really young, smack a full program on us in 5th, one in 7th on gangs, and you get at least two major big presentation thingies a year on how drugs are so horrible. It's like they're taking a hammer to our heads. I don't think drugs are necessarily something beneficiary, but this isn't the way to go to discourage them. Wait, this is off topic...bah.

I just got the book "Summerhill" about a british school that has no punishment and yet the children are well behaved and very intelligent. True story. Will report more after I finish my book on history of the Celts.

Yes, quite frankly I think you are... but then again so are the best of us. I am pretty much a pacifist. In other words, if you don't need to hurt anyone don't. If it is in self defense then go right ahead. Kill or be killed, then be my guest. But for cripes sake they're just children!

My grandmother happened to go to a Catholic school that embraces this policy. She would be hit constantly. Would you like to know why? She was left handed and apparantly that mean she was affiliated with the devil. oOoOoOoOo so being left handed makes you evil now huh?

Anyways, her knuckles were always bruised and broken because she was made to write with her right hand which had to have been exceedingly difficult for her.

Personally, I think that your ideas are cruel and vindictive. You only play a person's fears against them if they are truely evil and truely deserve it.

Not because they didn't turn in their homework.

I dont really see why anyone needs to be punished at all for something like not doing homework. If you dont do it you're not disrupting anyone elses education and the teacher has one less homework to mark! All that will happen is that the student wont know the work as well.. which is a kind of punishment anyway.

Hmm.. corporal punishment in schools. Paddling.

There of course would be some people like me who would get into trouble just for the 'punishment'.

First of all. You have to define how far in grades you want to implement this idea?

But, I tend to agree that corporal punishment causes fear, and this is training not education, we may derive from the animal kingdom but we are humankind, aren't we?

Second. Does it really make youngsters want to change their behavior?

Probably not. After all, what is a paddling compared to having your iPod, Xbox or your internet access taken way?

Back in the day it may have been "effective" but it was all mind control and candy coated forms of torture. Look at all the unbalanced minds that adults today exhibit. Scarier still, Catholic School flashbacks for those back in the 70's/80's (my parents) Egh!

Hmm. Methinks that that kind of punishment would only provoke some kids nowadays.

In Japan, the students help clean everything afterwards, supposedly to learn respect and stuff. I think it's a good idea.

But American kids, the majority of them would absolutely refuse...

I dunno. Whatever. America's falling anyways. Just like everything falls eventually. And then it gets rebuilt. And then it falls again. And then it is rebuilt again. It's a vicious cycle, I tell ya.


*goes back to reread her post*

Sorry. The ending was a bit spammy. Oh well you'll just have to forgive me.

Well Japan's society is also a hell of a lot different than Western Civilization, or more particularly, the USA's, if you don't mind my saying so. The media doesn't exactly help society improve, and I don't think corporal punishment would correct children either. You would be scared out of your bloody wits to try any of those things that got you a beating again, but that's just conditioning and training; not teaching children to not cause mischief and trouble etc. Genuine respect is what's needed here, as well as motivation and a willingness to do "good" or whatever you want to call it within school. I believe "succeed" was a word I heard someone in my school use...?

I totally agree with you there, it would be fine if it wasnt for things like performance related pay and other ways that schools seem to push the responsibility for the poor performance of the pupils onto the teachers. Blaming the teachers is clearly not the best plan since it motivates them to give students detention (causing them to hate the teacher) and probably causes them to resent the student for tarnishing the teachers record.

Letting the students take responsibility for their failures would reduce disruption from the kids that just dont want to learn, reduce work loads and allow the students who actually take an interest to be given more attention. The people who stay in school under such a system would also be more likely to pay attention as they are there voluntarily and not forced into it, another thing that seems to incite resentment.

Another problem in some schools seems to happen when teachers are required by the school/education authority/whatever to give students homework after every lesson since this seemingly leads to teachers setting unnecessary and usually boring (like heaps of repetitive questions that dont cover anything new or stir up any interest) homework. Individually set homework, or just homework only set as and when necessary, would improve the lives of the teachers and the students alike as the teachers are no longer forced to give the students repetitive and pointless homework just to satisfy their bosses (who may have the best of intentions but seem to have somewhat missed the point in this case).

Mutual fear/hate/anger is no way to run a school, especially when both sides are seemingly forced into the situation and have no options to do things any other way.

(sorry for dragging the flow of the thread back by a few posts there, was just an extension of a damn good point)

Trust Chazza for bringing this up. Exactly how many times would YOU have been beaten by teachers if it was made so. I probably would be too for the number of times I come in late.

I used to live in Ireland and if I'd have stayed there I would have gone to a Sisters of Mercy school. Now there was a sister there...can't remember her name - Angela? no no that was the nice one who retired. Gah can't remember. Well anyway she used to cane a lot of the girls, illegally of course, and often for no reason. Example, the gypsy girls, the O'Masomethings. There was one in my sister's class and the other was my friend. She used to cane them for being ex-gypsies. She made my sister stand in the corner everyday at lunchtime for a year because she didn't like the way the factory that my father owned smelt. She even made the mistake of caning the local lawyer's daughter once. Needless to say her father was in the next day ranting and raving at her, threatening that if she ever laid a hand on another girl again he'd sue. She stopped for a while and went back to caning again. She was a bitch. There is a REASON (quite unfairly as she [along with the head, candidly named Sister Teresa] was the only evil cow there) as to why I shudder everytime I walk past the Sisters of Mercy school where I live now.

Hmmm I've just noticed how atrocious my grammar is...

Aysha xxx

three hundred and twelve times.