Hey there!

I'm in a bit of the hole right now, and it seems to be getting bigger by the day.

As the adolence that i am i've messed out with both sexes and i now find myself attacted to both. But the problem is, I'm a christian, and its SUPOSSEDLY wrong in Christ's view.

What should i do?

Help!!!

Luv Smee

In my opinion, no, there is nothing wrong with homosexuality. Homosexuality is not a choice; this is something many people overlook. You don't have to entirely give up your religion, I don't think. That's for you to figure out what you now think about it. But how you feel probably needs to come first - I'm glad you've already accepted the fact you could be/are attracted to the same sex. It's really something you have decide with your religious beliefs, maybe perhaps your God was mistaken, who knows? But other than that, homosexuality is not wrong, the people who will tell you that have moral codes that I disagree with, and you may too, or may not.

The Bible's attitude towards homosexuality is highly debatable.

The King James Version condemns "sodomites" in Deuteronomy 23:37, but this is a mistranslation of the Hebrew Qadesh, a prostitute in a Pagan temple.

The story of Sodom in Genesis 19: Sodom was not destroyed because of the demands for same-sex intercourse made by the townsfolk regarding the angels guesting at Lot's house. Sodom had already been condemned before the angels were sent. God destroyed the city of Sodom because of the "wickedness" of its inhabitants. We can see what was really meant by this in several other passages. Isaiah 1 condemns Judah - the people of Judah are accused of rebelling against God, lacking in knowledge, deserting the Lord, idolatry, engaging in meaningless religious ritual, being unjust and oppressive to others, being insensitive to the needs of widows and orphans, committing murder, accepting bribes and so forth, and are repeatedly compared to the people of Sodom. The Hebrew middat S'dom, which can be literally translated as "the way the people of Sodom thought", means a lack of charity and hospitality towards others. You will note that Jeremiah 23:14 does not mention homosexuality: "...among the prophets of Jerusalem I have seen something horrible: They commit adultery and live a lie. They strengthen the hands of evildoers, so that no one turns from his wickedness. They are all like Sodom to me; the people of Jerusalem are like Gomorrah." I think it's clear that the story of Sodom does not condemn homosexuality.

Genesis 2:18:"It is not good for a man to be alone." This shows the importance that God gives to committed relationships. For a heterosexual, the only suitable companion is a person of the opposite gender. For a homosexual individual, the only suitable companion is a person of the same gender. To say that gays and lesbians should not form committed relationships is to say that it is good for people to remain alone. This is a direct contradiction of God's statement; it implies that God is a liar.

I have left until last Leviticus 18:22, since it is the passage most often cited. The transliterated Hebrew of this reads V’et zachar lo tishkav mishk’vey eeshah toeyvah hee. The common English translations of this are misleading: Bible publishers are under strong economic pressures to turn a profit. If a Bible does not condemn at least male homosexual behaviour, its sales would drop precipitously. The actual translation is extremely ambiguous - while it conceivably could condemn all male homosexual activity, it could just as easily condemn Pagan temple rituals involving homosexual sex, or two men having sex in a woman's bed.
All this is not relevant, however. What is relevant is the rest of Leviticus. If you choose to enforce one law in Leviticus, you must enforce the rest - this is clear, you can't pick and choose which rules you like. So if you enforce this, you must also enforce:
-That anyone who curses their mother or father must be killed.
-That if a man cheats on his wife, or vice versa, both the man and the woman must die.
-That if a man sleeps with his father's wife, both should be put to death.
-That if a man has sex with a woman while she is having her period, they are to be exiled.
-That people who are blind, lame or have flat noses may not approach the altar of God.
-That you shouldn't cut your hair or shave.
-That you shouldn't wear clothes of more than one fabric.

Do you live your life by all of these rules?

Source: The Ontario Consultants for Religious Tolerance.

thats a toughie, you clearly can't disreguard your faith that easily or you would have done it already

though it must be said that the only thing that tells you what christ might have thought on the subject has been edit, translated, edited again and re-translated (and so on and so forth) that in all probability a lot of things have changed greatly, besides which i have trouble believing someone as hip and groovy as jesus was ment to be would really be bothered by that sort of thing anyway

my advise? keep your faith, but for the love of god don't let it change who you are just because some book and a bloke in a robe standing behind a wooden pedestal say so, who's to say they're right anyway?

oh and for the record (its not really clear if your a guy or a girl) it says nothing like "thou shalt not indulge in the lady lust" to my knowledge at least


edit: oh god, i had to follow seans post, i look like even more of an intellectual midget than i really am

Okay, done my homework and found out you're a girl The Bible never mentions female homosexuality. My opinion on this is that it's because at the time it was considered irrelevant. Women were not thought to contribute any genetic material to an offspring - they were the soil in which a man's seed was planted. Male homosexuality, masturbation and any other waste of semen, therefore, was tantamount to abortion, whereas what women did didn't really impact. Of course, there remains the injunction against premarital sex, which applies regardless of which gender you have it with...

May the Gods and other assorted finery bless you Commie!
i always thought that Jesus was all about finding the happiness etc...surely if someone of the same gender makes you happy then that is ok! and also what about Jesus mingling with the so called 'undesirables'? surely they weren't all straight prostitutes and tax collectors?

and also, was the bible translated by Jesus? i think not! so basically the bits that jesus said have been edited out (thankee SPS) by the overbearing man-translator beast! aka, they removed anything that they found threatening! never mind what jesus wanted, and wasnt it supposed to be his book??? gah...

*gives Commie religious debate winner of the year scarf!

*sighs

told you so Claire! hopefully you will listen to the clued up forumites as well as me! and if you get struck down by a thunderbolt, i will pick up your crumbly remains, start reading the bible and stop promoting boy love!

Fal xXx

Thank you guys.

IO think i mite enjoy myself from now on tee hee!

you're durty! durty i say!

i think you should have more fun, i think you and emma would make such a cute (i cant believe i used that word...rinses mouth) couple!

*sighs

Fal xXx

I no!
And i do really like her!

But she's straight (apperantly)
*sighs

God doesnt like homosexuals, Therefore I will not follow his laws, regardless if I believe in him or not

I think that God won't care whether or not you're a homosexual, or bisexual, or heterosexual as long as you live your life as best you can, and do your best to be a good person. Liking someone the same gender as you doesn't make you a bad person.

I'm Christian too. The way I see it, I don't know if God sees homosexuality as "wrong". Frankly, I don't think I will know until I die. What I do know is that Jesus teaches us to love, accept, and tolerate everyone. I also know that Jesus died to forgive our sins. Therefore, those two in combination form this idea in my head, "Whether or not God sees homosexuality as wrong, I know he would want us to love and respect them as we would anyone else. I also know that since Jesus died for us we wouldn't be sent to Hell just for being homosexual. So, therefore, God probably doesn't see homosexuality as wrong in the first place, and even if he does he would forgive them." Not to mention, as others said, possible mistranslations and the like. So, the way I see it, God has no more of a problem with homosexuals than with heterosexuals.

There's also the argument that, since it's not clear whether or not God condemns homosexuality or homosexual activities, He can't very well punish you for it, since you made an honest mistake rather than a deliberate defiance of His will.

Okay, this may take a while...

My Father is gay. I'm one of three children - how does this work, I hear you scream....

Simple. My Father was married to my Mother for twenty years before it all came out. They married at a very young age (Mum was 16, Dad was 26).

In the time of my Fathers childhood, being gay was a disease. It was an adnormality that needed to be cured. So he hid it. And married my Mother.

This tore my family to pieces. Wrecked everything.

The point I'm trying to make is this - whatever you are, go with it. Whatever you want, go for it. The alternative may do more damage than you can imagine. Always be true to yourself, it's the best option.

“This above all—to thine own self be true.”

The divine inspires love in all its forms. Love between two people pleases him/her/them.

I'm not as versed in scripture as others here. But no, there is nothing wrong with homosexuality.

Whats wrong is being forced to be someone your not. We are customed built, and it would be a shame to deny that which we have been given.

Good luck Smee, you'll find that special girl somewhere (if she has a straight sister, lemme know )

Love, David

ps:
Smee: I just had an apostrophe.
Captain Hook: I think you mean an epiphany.
Smee: Lightning just struck my brain.
Captain Hook: That must hurt.

Wrong, evil, unnatural. Those are some of the many adjectives that many people you meet will describe homosexuality and bisexuality as.

Remember, though, that those're the same words that many people used to use to describe desegregation. And it's very hard (though, sadly, possible) to find someone who'd still describe it with words like those.

Homosexuality is wrong? Well, what is 'right'? Is 'right' only what the norms of society dicate it as? Even if so, homosexuality is then becoming increasingly 'right'. Which then makes you wonder if it never was wrong in the first place. Which, as more and more people are coming to realise, is the case.

Homosexuality is unnatural? Take a look at the animal kingdom; you can't get much more natural than animals. You'll find homosexuality throughout the various species of animals, though it's not extremely common. Not only that, but there's a species of monkey that's entirely bisexual. 100%

Homosexuality is evil? There's no comment needed here, as the answer to that question should be obvious.


One last thing: is there actually a passage in the bible where Christ actually condemns homosexuals? Or homosexuality?

If God hates (which, seeing as God, according to the bible, loves all his creations, makes little to no sense) homosexuals and bisexuals, then why would he create them in the first place?

Take my cats for example. Both male. Wouldn't know it watching them. ugh.

When I was a wee impressionable bairn still skipping about in my school uniform (curse the system, I will never recover from the polyester trauma) I had a rather nasty 'professor' who regularly had us look up passages condemning homosexuality. We'd spend days listened to him give fundy rants about god and needing to round up all gays and shoot them. I have seen the dark side of the strict interpretation of the king james Bible and it's ugly and irrational.

On the other hand, my vati is a pastor. Occasionally this subject has come up and rest assured that in the more liberal and even moderate churches, there is a very live-and-let-live attitude about homosexuality. As has been mentioned, the translation is often put into question, especially the king james. From a scholarly standpoint, the King James is a very poor translation. Pretty, yes, but accurate, no. So don't worry yourself silly over it.

The Living Translation is worse. *shudders*

Remember, there was no word in Hebrew, Aramaic or ancient Greek for "homosexual". If you see that word, you can be pretty sure the translator is taking liberties.

As a raving homosexual who was raised Southern Baptist.. I find the following logic seemed to help me get passed it all (I identify more as wiccan /agnostic /learning about Buddhism now a days). If the Christian god is supposed to be a all known, all loving god... if he created all things.. How in the world can he find fault with two humans truly loving each other? If he knows all then he knew it was going to happen... if he didn’t want it to happen would he have made it possible? I just don’t believe that god would put you in hell for loving someone.
You cannot deny who you are and what you feel.. It is like trying to keep the sun from rising. You can close your eyes and never watch it.. but it is still going to be there every day... and it is still going to beautiful every day. Moral of my story, screw the world... Do what makes you happy...

ok... most of gods laws that were created befor jeasus were thrown out when jeasus came he died for our sins yes so we dont always have to follow every rule.. but still i think its god too keep a guidline of them.. just becasue god forgives us doenst make sin ok... but no ones perfect... im bisexual but because i belive that homosexual-ness goes aginst the bible i dont do anything with other girls (any more). you really have to make your own choises here.. and hope that you make the right one. but keep in mind that doing somthing god said no too just because you know god will forgive you doesnt make it right.

and commie... you forgot the law about how you have to poop in a hole out side of camp

Right!

I've came to a decision

As many of you will not know, i'm sitting intermediate 2's and highers (a levels for a ll you english folk) 3 years early, and after watching my brother, nearly fail his exams due his female friend, I think I'm gonna stay out of relationships til i'm that tad older, and if guys still don't make me happy, i might turn the wheels.

*cheers*

You show a great deal of responsibility, I'm sure you'll have no trouble with exams (I have no clue what levels are though >.<)

I wish I had the determination to be able to do that. Good luck <3

Keep us posted.

Sean, you summarized a lot of what I was going to say, so I'll just skip past the Old Testament injunctions against homosexuality (which, on a side note, were probably incorporated into the laws of the ancient Hebrews more to "set themselves aside" from the other societies of the time than anything else -- after all, the Old Testament is a document intended for the tribal audience of the Hebrews, which threatened destruction of the tribe, the social unit of the time, if you didn't follow certain ethical guidelines -- seeing as how society has evolved a lot since that time, you need to interpret it in the socio-historical context, or it really isn't valid in any case...)



Christ is remarkably silent on the subject. The only story we have that may have expressed his views on it are in the story of the Roman centurion (Luke 7:10, Matthew 8: 5-13). The Roman centurion comes to Jesus and tells him that his "pais" (traditionally interpretted as servant or slave) is ill and dying. We now know that a pais was a young male kept for sexual purposes. (This may or may not have been pederasty, because we really don't know the ages of either the pais or the centurion). However, this Roman centurion apparently loves his pais and Jesus sees the relationship as one of mutual respect, since does not condemn it -- he gladly heals the boy.



Take the United Church of Canada, for example, the second largest church in Canada after Roman Catholicism, which is actively pressuring the government to allow gay marriages, and has been performing "Same-Sex Covenants" for over a decade now.



Just as an ironic side note, King James (who commissioned said translation) was both a voluptuary and a homosexual -- and also not exactly a wonderful example of a ethical Christian man.

Ok, we happened to be discussing this very subject in one of my classes this morning and I heard something rather suprising.

*please I don't want to offend anyone. The following views and opions are not endorsed by Atari™*

In the bible, Paul is reffered to as "The one who Jesus loved." Paul and Big Daddy J have an intense bond, and a mutual love for one another (not sexual persay).

If two men can be so close, how can homoerotic acts (expressions of such love) be biblically wrong?

*please don't flame me*

And with regards to the "Thou shalt not lay with a man as they would a woman, for it is an abomination" (somewhere in Deut.) passage. Shellfish are abominations, as are clove footed animals. The bible (at least the translated context of it) is pretty loose with that word. And as has been previously expressed, Jesus changed alot of the old rules.

Jesus is the son of God, he can loves everyone as a child of God, it's his love that is supposedly meant to save you. Jesus loving Paul is love between two close friends, or maybe in a father and son way. Because they have mutual love doesn't mean either condone homosexuality

Pathetically, the love between two males which is strictly non-sexual and devoid of any homoerotic substace is not called as such anymore, at least not in UK/USA modern culture. Either it is considered as not possible, or just called (incorrectly) gay. I love some of my male friends, not in any romantic/sexual way, in a way that is incomparable; simply because there is no such relationship to compare it to. I call it love, so that it might not seem to pale in comparison in importance or value than the love I would have for a partner.

You're thinking of John. Paul never knew Jesus (at least as a person) as he became a Christian several years after Jesus had died and ascended.

But yes, John is referred to as "the one who Jesus loved." In a similar way that King David was said to have loved Jonathan... (although that opens up another whole can of worms, seeing as how the love David and Jonathan shared "surpassed the love of women" and the Bible talks about Jonathan being naked in front of David and the two men kissing...)

Love is love is love is love.

Yes, but the word love is used (in the English language) to define quite a few fairly separate things.

The flaw is its benefit. If homosexuals want a kid, they are more likely to adopt than ready heterosexuals, while some may have the possibility of other methods it creates a greater opening for adoption, which I love. Why bring more westerners into the world when there are current kids ready for a good home?

<spam>

*huggles*

</spam>

There is nothing wrong with homosexuality. Just some peoples perceptions of it!

Exactly!

My family is very anti-gay. In fact my mother just said two days ago "we just have to look past what they are and try to like them for who they are". Referring to gays. No wonder I act homophobic when I am actually Bi. *thinks this may be the reason she is so f**ked up about accepting her sexuality*

Smee - U should only be asking yourself if there's anything wrong with homosexuality. Cuz after all, its your life and you have to live it. Try not to be hindered by biased views such as Christianity. You will find the answer, in time.