I used to think graffiti wasn't so bad...but I've changed my point of view on that.

Disturbing news: In my community with mostly spoon-fed , rich, comfortable, and maybe sheltered kids with all the tolerance programs slapped upon us, somebody drew a swastika in the boys' bathroom stall. Right after it had been repainted.

Did I mention these kids are sometimes stupid? When we were told, a third of the class is like "What's a swastika?!" like they had absolutely no idea. "It's just writing," piped up one kid.

I know defacing public property is a crime, I'll google it sometime later to find how serious and blah blah. How much of an issue is it where you live? For us, most of the girls' bathroom stalls in my school have "I am ..." I love ..." " ... sucks" scrawled all over the place. I haven't been to many other public places that have graffiti all over, though. (I said we were a bit sheltered.)

Some graffiti's really cool, I like a lot of Banksy's stuff scattered around Bristol, and someone's chalked motivational slogans (ie: You can do it! Smile! Go get 'em! and suchlike) all over a bridge that I walk across every day, which cheers me up.
The mindless stuff really pisses me off though.

You tend to see quite a bit of graffiti around the centre of town, but that's about it. Personally, I find it disturbing unless its done properly. There's this stretch of wall near the train station that's a bloody outdoor museum. But on the whole, graffiti is just an eyesore.

What really bothers me are the people who tag the "A" for anarchy on private property. Those people simply reinforce the stereotype that all 'anarchists' are punks who have no respect for private property and are menaces to society.

I guess I could say I live in a small town, about 22,500. When I was younger there were quite a few "gangs" where I used to live and I saw a little graffiti on the asphault and the sides of buildings, but that was about it. I have seen no defacing of public property since my parents and I moved about nine years ago. Usually one will find something written on the overpasses around town, and sometimes kids go to the overpasses to throw rocks at the oncoming cars.

Some grafitti is cool. However it is illegal and should be irradicated. Some of these kids have talent, if they were smart and the community was smart it would try art programs to get these kids to develop their talents.

A swastika is an insult, it is disgusting, it is a sick and twisted thing. Any kid who drew that should be paddled until his ass blleds. Such behavior cannot be tolerated. If they make jokes, they might not know the terrible effect the Nazi's had on everyone. It is filthy and I hope they catch and suspend the little worm who drew it.

I hate grafitti everytime I see it. I just have no tolerance for defacing public property. If you want to create art, then create art. Don't spray it on someone else's belongings.

As for "toilet" grafitti, it's just so immature that it irks me everytime I go into a public washroom. I've seen *far* too many "I like big c*ck, call 555-5555" and "My wife wants to f...*" and racist and homophobic jokes and whatnot. Really gets my goat.

Exactly...except he shouldn't be paddled. He should be expelled, there should be a national newspaper article, and he wouldn't be able to get into any other school. He should be punished massively, though. (Ehh, I can't stand intended physical violence to children when they do something wrong.) Stupid kid. You can bet he just thought it looked cool. --;

Yeah, it's interesting to read some graffiti and some of it has some sort of twisted message, but seeing as how the alternative can happen, it needs to be eradicated.

Y'know, at least to me, there's a difference between 'illegal street art' ('art' being taken in a very liberal way) and grafitti. Grafitti seems like too vague of a term, as it ranges from things like a swastika to actual art. I mean, before budget cuts made them get rid of it, someone wrote 'burn the rich' on the mailbox on the corner of a street in my neighborhood. On the other hand, there is (or was, as I haven't seen any of his stuff around in quite some time) plenty of really interesting ('interesting' being taken in a very liberal way) art by this guy De la Vega (or something like that).

At my school, these two girls died in a car accident, they were very popular. So on all the lockers there are messages like "We will never forget" and stuff like that, we're even planting a tree for them (I didn't know them, I guess I'm not cool enough *sniffle*). But in every SINGLE bathroom stall there are these crudely written "We still love you (Girl's name) and (Other girl's name)!", followed by a SLEW of people who sign their name. I think that is terrible graffiti, and I know that I would never, under and circumstances, want to be remembered while people are going to the bathroom. I think it's a totally degrading thing these girls, claimed friends of the girls that died, are writing on the stalls. I like art graffiti, but the graffiti written to "mark your territory" is stupid, and tasteless graffiti is no better.

I'm very much opposed to any graffiti. The area I live in is quite pretty and I take real exception to people marring that. I don't dispute that some of these individuals have real talent, but it can be utilised elsewhere, as far as I am concerned.

Apart from which, I know that my tax money will be used at some point to get rid of it. That gets right on my tits.

Some graffiti, I think, is actually an expressive art. If your doing something like a mural with meaning, it's really not that bad. But if you're advertsing hate, then it is pretty wrong.

here's a link on a Bronx graffiti artist: Tracy 168

Regardless of whether its artistic or not, if it's on property that you don't own, then it should be (as it is) illegal.

Has anyone else seen this seriously weird grafitti around central London, Liverpool Street Station area is one the places. It's crazy like tubes of black slime coming out of a rabbits eye and stuff....

I like it but it screws with my head after a while

Oh yeah and make sure you differentiate between Swastikas and what looks the same except in reverse, as that is an old Japanese sign.

No, the swastika isn't Japanese, I think it's Hindu.

Well, it was origionally derived from Sanskrit and has been used in a variety of ancient cultures including those in South America. Before the advent of the Nazi party it was known best as an ancient symbol for Buddhism strangely enough. The oriongal Sanskrit and its uses in ancient cultures orgionally meant somethinga long the lines of welfare or well-being and then became a symbol for change later on.

Buddhist actually. Specifically used by Tibetan buddhist monks.

Here's a little tidbit. During WWI some american soldiers had orange swastika arm badges for good luck.

The thing is, kids here don't *know* all that background information. Ask what WWII was about. "Uh, like, we fought Hitler. And stuff. Bad Nazis." Yet it's sooo funny when a swastika is drawn. "Hey look, he has a SWASTIKA on his notebook! *giggle giggle*" I'm going to go on a mad rant to these kids one of these days. Probably the next time it happens. More complaints about ignorance:

"What's a swastika?"

someone else (thank jesus tapdancing christ there are a few) "Hello! A symbol used by Nazis ..."

"Oh, well I'm SOR-RY I didn't know that! I'm not a history freak!"

siiiigh.

There's actually some graffiti in the girls' bathroom like "I wish Ashley would die."

How I love my community. These kids are the future.

Graffiti, no problem. Graffiti is art, and often very well realised. Tagging. That is the problem. Well realised graffiti can actually raise local property prices, but some numpty writing their name on a wall brings the whole idea into disrepute.

I thought it originated from what's now Iraq. However, it is evident in religious icons throughout the eastern world. These 'swastikas' though are reversed compared to the Nazi ones.

Graffiti can be beautiful, looked at in the right light. A few years ago I went to see an exhibition of "Temper" in the Museum in Birmingham and it was amazing! I still have two of the sprite cans that had some of his stuff on them!

It's amazing what some people can do! Temper

But I agree...tags are a pain in the backside, all the way along train lines in Notts and most other easily acessable places there it is and it's just really annoying when you look out the window and it's all you can see. grrr.

I'm in agreeance with most everyone. Graffiti, when well drawn/ painted/ etc. , is perfectly fine; Tagging is despicable. By my house, there is a creek. I loved it, and I still do, but there are meaningless tags everywhere. Under this concrete bridge, one of the supports was the pleasant white grey of concrete; now, you can't even see the pillar there's so much paint on it. They've even went as far as tagging trees. Tree's for christ's sake!!!i'm plannin on going down there with some grey and white spray paint, and solving what the city won't.

Okay, to clear up some stuff. The swastika, in Hindu and eastern religions can appear reversed, or the same way as the Nazi's had it. However, the Nazi swastika was rotated 45 degrees, I believe.

That is, *if* I'm remembering this all right, and I should be, since I just read an article in the paper on this.

As wonderful as graffiti can be, I still don't think it should be able to be done on public or private property. I only wish those people could be able to exhibit their art other ways.

exactly, theres a part on the train route i take up to london...its actually in london, its all pretty boring, lots of grubby brick walls and iron bridges someone has spent a lot of time doing some quite remarkable stuff up there and i think it brightens the place up a little, tagging on the other hand is plain ugly, i watched some kids at school once showing off their tags to each other on a white board, it was really quite pathetic....

Yep but origionally derived form Sanskrit

I think a few cultures adopted this symbol as a "good luck" or "peace" symbol.... before Hitler took a fancy to it that is!! I have a wall hanging from India that has them embriodered in the corners.

I recall seeing the swastika symbol on a number of Roman mozaics. I think it symbolised wisdom.

no...the swastika is for luck and long life... hence the irony in the nazis using it while they killed people....

I live in Singapore, which is a super strict country. The government is authoritarian yet they encourage "creative expression". So in other words there's practically no graffiti on the walls. And to seem like a "free" country, at this skate park, they put PRETEND graffiti so it looks cooler but clean at the same time. It's so weird! (when I mean pretend graffiti, it's graffiti done by professional artists, so actually it's not really graffiti).

i know there is a lot of bad graffiti around town, mostly badly done tags and swears, but have you seen the bob marley piece downtown? it's in an alley, so it's not defacing the front of the building, and it really beautifies an otherwise ugly decrepit back lane.

i don't know if it was done with permission or not, but i feel that that kind of graffiti isn't wrong, it's people taking it upon themselves to make their city a better place with art. of course there is the possibility that the owner of the building won't like your art, but then as pratchett would say, that's not a crime, that's an anti-crime.

If you are to say that, where's the line between bad graffiti and good graffiti? What's the line between a "beautiful work of art" done illegally in an alley and "ugly tags and swears" done in the same way?

well done tags can be quite beautiful. my beef was with the badly done ones that are runny and not filled in well. if that's the best you can do, you should practice with spray chalk (an actual product btw) until you can produce something that you can be proud of.

swears never make for good graffiti because they are only ever scrolled in messy handwriting, misspelled, not thought out, and with no intent but to offend. honestly, does anyone feel that "fuk u bich" done so poorly that it looks like "pur v biub" is art?

There is a train in the area with the most hidious graffiti. A vinyl advertising Gin*t*rs

I'd like to own a building with entirely blank concrete walls somewhere on the outskirts of a city and then let people spray it on a rotating schedule of a week or two. Kind of like a free gallery. Plus the fact that having it continuously painted would keep swear words and other icky stuff off it for the most part. Or maybe just a room in my house where I could try it out.

I've always kind of harbored a secret admiration for the really talented street artists.

The Nazi swastika is to the left and rotated a little bit. The Buddist one is for luck, but it points to the Right and is staright up and down. I can't remember what the buddist call it, but its not Swakstika(I think, it's been awile since my World civ class.) Anyway, I take offenense to swastika's because those who write them to be "funny" have no understanding of the meaning behind it and should be beaten till brink of death if they ever use it(talking about the Nazi one). And as for graffiti, I could care less, some graffiti is really neat and look good, and in fact some people pay for artists to paint their buildings. But all the gang signs and stuff like that irks me and should be gotten rid of.

I always thought the swastika was originally a jewish symbol, it has been found in jewish temples in palistine that are around 2000 years old, but I googled it and as far as I can tell it was originally oriental.

Back on subject though, I've always been quite fond of graffiti, that could be because I've grown up in a mostly graffiti free area and only really saw it while on the train to London, where it was a distraction from the boring train journey, but I think it's pretty cool.
Mind you I don't like toilet style graffiti, especially if it's racist or something similarly offencive (sexist, homophobic etc).
I like artistically done tags or random patterns like this, but tags like the one in the upper right hand corner of that picture just look boring.
Chalk messages are compleatly fine by me (unless they have messages like toilet style graffiti), someone keeps writing chalk anarchist messages all along my route to school and they always make me smile.

Finally I'd just like to say that I adore Banksy's work beyond all reason (designated riot area? It's genius! Genius I tell you!) and if I actually had any money at all I'd buy myself some of his work. If you haven't been to his site, go now.

i'd say, gothic, that art as a picture, a mural, or a piece of writing that makes you think, or just a landscape, is quite acceptable and shouldn't be frowned upon too much. you'd have to draw the line at amateurs, people writing swear words, bad tagging with no accompanying work etc.

maybe there could be some kind of licence for graffiti artists, based on ability? and they could apply for permission to graffiti positively on areas of wall or whatever that they thought could better the area?

some free-lance artists are "graffiti artists" and people do higher them to paint mainly the inside of buildings. They are mainly told a basic theme to go along with the store or whatever, but it does happen. You don't see it much in small places, but in larger cities I believe there are many of them.

Well, I have nothing against it at all. I mean, it doesn't affect me, and that's teh attitude I have. Actually, when our new skate park was constructed, kids were asked to do tasteful graffiti on it, as long as they showed their design to someone in charge. I love graffitti, I wish I was that talented.

I think part of the point of (some people's) graffiti is rebellion, so some of them might feel getting a licence defys the point. Plus after getting a licence they'd have to make sure they didn't create anything that offends the government, and may feel oppressed by that kind of censorship.

true. you raise a good point, didn't think of it that way. well, i suppose they might feel a bit oppressed. but i would like to see more good artistry where i live *shrugs*

I think graffiti can be a good or a bad thing. It really depends on what it looks like, what it says, and where it's done. As far as location goes, i would say people's private property (ie, their houses etc) is unacceptable, and a nice brand new white library or something is kinda ruined if someone scrawls a swearword on it a week after its opened. On the other hand, a broken down wall in a deadbeat part of town actually looks good if someone's drawn psychodelic designs all over it with spray cans. And as for public toilets, well, i don't know about women's toilets, but all the blokes toilets i've been in are pretty horrible places. To be honest i actually expect to see something scrawled on the backs of the doors. I think the suspicious-looking-liquid-you-can-only-hope-is-water found on the floor and the smell is much more of a problem. And what's wrong with a lovesick teenager declaring their love anonymously on something that's already almost defaced beyond recognition? In my opinion, nothing.
I do think people just randomly getting a marker pen and writing swearwords on things is pretty pointless. I think if people need to rebel that much then they should at least do it properly, as in, spray cans in a colourful design. A lot of the graffiti done with spray cans is very artistic, although admittedly if it is a giant f-word, people probably don't want their 6 year olds asking them what it means.
Well, i'm done.

In our area people who have graffitied have been made to clean it off