I have only been back for a few minutes but searching through the forums made me feel like maybe I do not belong in the forums anymore, purhaps i am only feeling the hopelessness of havign to catch up with current event in matazone or maybe i am just making a big thing out of nothing either way, Only time will tell

Join the ranks of people like me who never fit in to begin with. I just post here. But I don't belong. Embrace the alienation I say!

Well, you have to remember that fitting in doesn't come from sitting around and waiting for someone to notice you - assert yourself and see how that works. You can't expect reading threads to get you anywhere.

Thats why I've slipped into relative obscurity

tum te tum tum te tee

Yes, that;s a good first-post-in-ages-post.

Sorry for the spam *looks crestfallen*

Hi!! I'm reasonably new about here but I can see what you mean by not fitting in. There seems to be two groups - the old timers and the newbies. Trying to slip yourself into the old time group is near on impossible - these are guys who've been on here forever and have their friends and are quite happy leaving it like that. And the newbies, well, that's pretty much the rest of us...

Rumour has it that the forum isn't what it used to be. Well, I think it's pretty fantastic now, so if it was better before than it must have been like heaven....

had exactly that problem when i got back on here on tuesday. read recent stuff, post lots, pm random people and get on when you can. trust me, i feel back at home already *hugs* and you can always pm me if you get like this lots

That's not true for everyone. I'm an oldtimer and I can't seem to get into the new people's groups because they think that all the oldtimers just want to stay friends with the rest of the old timers.

Ah.. so you don't know me! Well, you're welcome to be my friend and get to know me. I'm Amelia, the Silver Star Angel of Da Towers, aka Silver. *hands you a cake* You can PM me whenever you feel the slightest bit left out. Sometimes, I feel like that too... but that's when I go make new friends!! *hugs*

I think that what you may have are people who identify with different things.. not all people like the same things or feel that some things are funny or amusing. Hence why some people will not answer a daft post about tomatoes. People have different views of humor, political ideas, reasoning, and culture.. that does not make either person any less relevant than another. You will always have different groups of friends. I would suggest if you feel out of place, find a subject you enjoy and start a thread, or find a thread in progress. I guess you have to look for your niche. I don’t believe that anyone here is an elitist.. people just have different point of views.

oh what a vicious cycle

Well there are WAY more cliques than you think, its more like the most frequenters, the less frequenters, the irc people, the yahoo people and so on and so on. I actually was a part of all of them at one time...kind of went downhill and I personally see myself as in outcast.

So directing to Jon's comments, I relate so much and understand, just try to get in there er...like syuu said. You were and still are one of us and that makes you equal in that extent.

As for the past glory of this place, newer members will not understand how this place was good before. It was literally clique-free, where you really felt like you had a great and vast circle of friends on here...you get that feeling too now but not as much, just the acceptance of beings as a accquaintance(sp) is more so. That's different now unfortunately. It'll probably again too and you will witness it...very sad.

But anyways I am rambling. Hun, you'll be just fine, just give it a trial period.

I don't fit in. I never fit in anywhere and I always feel out of place.

Or perhaps I do fit in and, instead of I not fitting in, it is my mind and the obscurities and abstractions it makes to every reality and concreteness of the world. I can't help that very well.

Isn't it though?

I just wanted to point out that in IRC the room #burrito was started so that noobs and old timers could both find a place to get to know each other. Before #burrito there was an unpublisized room and it did keep the crowd small. Either way even with trying to open up the different channels to getting to know eachother, people just don't seem to try and get on with it.

If you like the way another person posts, be it new or old, PM them. If they're around and want to talk then they'll probably PM you back. It's one of those things that you have to make an effort on either way. PMing can progress into conversations, then maybe exchanges of messenger identities, and then perhaps hooking up in a chatroom of sorts where maybe one is established and helps to make you feel more welcome.

I guess we can all complain that it's too hard to get into either sets of groups, but I guess the complaint isn't really warrented if you don't try.

/rant

I know that I just posted in here but I have more to say on this "old timers" issue because it kind of bugs me to an extent.

There are just a couple of things, yeah we may seem cliquey and like we don't want to become friends with noobs but I think that is that way in any situation where someone comes in to a place and is new to it, not just here. We have a history together and have been friends for quite some time so maybe we kind of cling to eachother for a bit of a support net when it comes to posting. We can't take the time to explain everyone of our inside jokes, which there are of course many and again that's something that will happen in any situation. We can't just drop eachother and loose that history and those friendships that have been established and been there for so long and become friends with anyone that comes on here.

Another point is that looking back on the history of this place and the age grouping here. When the forums first started the majority of the people here were in their 20's or late teen years. Now if you look at the age dynamic here it's mid teens and pre-teens who frequent this place the most. It's perfectly normal for people with that wide of an age gap to not relate to eachother and to not like the same things, or know what others are talking about. I personally have trouble relating to people who are 13 14 and 15 because I'm 25. Yes I did go through my angsty teenage years and I do understand a lot of the things that people that age are going through, seeing as I've gone through them myself. The thing is I've gotten past that, grown up and matured to what hopefully is a good maturity level for my age, and I really don't want to go through it again for the sake of other people. I can tell people that I understand what they're going through, but like me at that age a lot of people think that they're the only ones who have suffered through the hard times of being a teenager. The culture too is something that I don't really understand because it came after my time I guess. So again theres something that I don't relate to. I find myself clinging to those who are around my age and can understand the things that people my age are going through too, and as the forums have less and less people that are around my age I guess I personally can seem a bit elitist myself because I get those who are older for the most part.

I think that ends my rant for now and I must get back to cleaning my house.

I've worried about the topic myself - my attendance here is nothing compared to what it once was, and people are either forgetting about me or simply not knowing (caring?) who the hell I am. There are lots of people I don't know, also, and new in-jokes springing up that I don't even have the beginning of an idea as to how to work out what they mean. And I'm one of your so-called 'old timers'...

Know what I do when I feel that way?

I go to the forums here, and remember that things could be a whole lot worse...

We're perhaps the most inclusive forum you'll find anywhere, but, like in any crowd, if you don't stand up and shout, no-one will hear you.

Definitely what Lo said. Maturity and age has a lot to do with it, though it is not, of course, exclusionary. And is true, that the age of the average poster on this forum right now is around 15, and most of us "old posters" are adults.

It isn't that we don't like you or leave you out, but there's very little about your lives we can relate to. When we do weigh in with advice or commentary, it sounds very demeaning, because our life experience has taught us that the things you are experiencing are trivial in the long run even though the problems you're currently suffering are your entire world. Sometimes we can find common ground for conversation in Media or Issues, but if you look at where the most topics exist, it's in Daily Life or Daft - the places you're LEAST likely to find us, because sadly enough, things we can enjoy reading and relate to are in short supply there.

Finally, as far as the comments about out-of-forum contact, like instant messengers and chat, are concerned: many of the "older posters" are full-time college students or in the working world (sometimes both), as well as having fairly full personal lives, and we don't usually have the abundance of free time for forum socialization that the average poster would. When the forum was smaller, it was easier for us to get to know each other with the limited time we did have, but as massive as it is now, the chances of growing close to anyone through forum contact alone is very slim. You all might have regular and frequent time to spend on the computer, chatting with people - but we do not. We're lucky if we catch each other a few times a week, sometimes less.

What I'm saying here is, all this "clique" stuff is nonsense, and it really isn't fair to label us old people here like that. Thanks.

Another good point to make is that I do go to this other forum called Overclocked Remix, and man it takes a lot more effort to get accepted.

They have a bad history with stupid n00bs so they are cyncial towards them until they show intellgence. Also for the reason of males showing up more on there, female members have some advantages. They always suggested on there that you lurk before you post. Now, not all of the OCR forum is like that, its just the Unmod portion of it that is really interesting to look at.

And yes it is true, if you say nothing noone will notice you, but yet I noticed one of the older members, Leopold, damn he went away for a while then came back to say hi and seemed like EVERYONE including myself said hi to the man. I do think that is an exception.

But I do digress(sp). Jonathan, y'know people here will be-friend ya if they are new, and the people who do remember you still did ask about you when you coudl not come here. Now's your chance to shine and get back with us.

Yes, it's true that there are groups of people who tend to hang out, whether it be on the forums or on messengers outside of the forums. I think, though, the majority of this grouping has to do with common interests, time, and whatnot. The age thing is a big thing, as has been said, as well as similar politics, music, and what have you. Also, I think a lot of the "old-timers" seem aloof because they just don't post as much anymore -- for whatever reason, they've outgrown the forums, or the forums have outgrown them, or there are other things going on in their lives, or the focus of the boards has changed over time, or whatnot. I personally don't have the time I'd like to post, because of insane numbers of assingments and exams at school (whine, whine, moan, complain).

I'm living proof that you can weasel your way into whatever group of friends you want. You just have to be assertive, as has been said. I'm a relative noob around here, but my friends are all the "old timers" you're talking about, and I became friends with them in a matter of weeks.

So, chin up. There are groups, and there always will be. I mean, this board has over 1000 members. Find people you can hang out with, be assertive, PM them, post in their topics.

As for the boards having their "glory days of old"... I wasn't there when they happened, but I think the forums have always had their ups and downs. A lot has happened in the personal lives of many members, but these boards are only what we make of them.

Or could it be your short, non-commital one-line responses?

jk

Actually, your short non-commital one-line responses make you pretty famous in my books.

The reason everyone shouted at Leo when he came back was because he was popular to begin with. He did stand up and shout at first, he got himself personal with a lot of people and lended them so much help in dire times of need, he was always there if you needed any cheering up, and if you were sad, you suddenly got this PM in text britspeak that just brightened your entire day. That's how Leo is, he showed everyone what a kind, compassionate person he was, and that's why we all love him to pieces and know that no matter how long he goes away, it's Leo, 'pold, the old git with hugs and laydee appreciation.

He has a theme, an idea, a personality on here brighter than a lot of others because he made himself so well known.

I'm an old timer too, I guess. Likely the youngest of the entire group, being four months younger than Dayan. And I know that when I first arrived, even though I was nervous and everything was just starting to kick up and turn into something breathtakingly amazing, I got to know everyone I could. Went in IRC, met Jaq, Missy, Dayan, InKy, I got to know them all on an individual basis and got a feel for how damned special they were. Matazone, to me, was something so amazing that I couldn't wait to get home just to talk to Dayan over PMs, or giggle about InKy with Missy, or ask Jonman questions in his agony uncle thread. The reason we oldbies or whatever are so close is because we made damn sure to *know* eachother.

You have to do that. Now, everything seems sort of impersonal. I just see people talking about their lives to no one in particular and getting short, not really personal posts back. You have to get personal with people if you want to make yourself known. Do what Leo did and make sure people know who you are.

That's why we talk about the good old days so much. They were pretty durn good.

And that they were Syuu, and that they were. Those days were so awesome.

I think that is very sound advice. Sounds like something a lot of new people can really use. This place has about 1000 members give or take a few. It'll be harder but this place could be the same way we remember it. I like the way you think on this.

No offense but I don't think this board will ever be the way it used to be. That's not necissarily a bad thing either. Places evolve and change, that's just how life works. If something stays static it gets rather boring and uneventful.

With every new person to the board a new dynamic is added. With every new dynamic the board changes just a bit.

All very true, but I ment the same closeness and 'real' friendship felt when we went here early on. I understand with more new people comes a lot more difference. I was getting at if we tried hard enough to really get that closeness back, then we can be successful.

Something I am reminded of from the book, The Great Gatsby:

"You can't change the past.."
Gatsby replies "Can't change the past? Why of course you can!"

Obviously I do think like Gatsby, but through knowledge, you can accept the things you can't change, and have courage to change the things you can.

meh, if i take the time to write long winded post they are invariably ignored or at least not replied to, with this in mind I make shorter posts....save the effort


edit: also if i write long post, they get very waffly and go off on a random tangent

*ignores SPS*

I think I heard something like "Blah blah blah, I'm sexy but not saying anything of merit."

Am I right? Right.

turns out i am just a pretty face

Wrong! I like the long, waffly tangents of SPS .. then I get the whole intellectual prettyboy feel. Very good for the articles in those magazines, you know, where they want the model to show they're not empty headed and really have an opinion on all those starving tribes in Africa.

Mm .. SPS.

...not....quite...sure what you're trying to say...but thanks....i think >_>

love ya both anyway

Bah! I thought it sounded a little weird .. what I meant was, I think you're pretty *and* smart. And damn snazzy, too.

Talk about derailment!

Well hopefully all has been said, and just gotta wait until reaper reads this.

Sorry, who are you again??

Hey, I was ALWAYS here, and I still missed out on the bulk of the in-jokes! Mind, that prolly had something to do with the fact that everyone in IRC just loitered until you showed up ( ). Or maybe it's cos I spent so much time IMing Crissi... Personally, I'm stunned anyone remembers me at all. I'm sure there's a good number of n00bs out here that never heard of me, or maybe saw the odd post but have no real idea who I am. Not surprising since I'm almost never here these days.

Anyway, cliquey or not, it's true that you have to raise your head above the parapet to get noticed. It's a lot harder than it was here, for several good reasons, but the main ones being:

(1) It's hard to start a new debate on an old forum - Most old timers here have debated on a lot of stuff already, and won't really feel like reiterating.

(2) More people = less space in which to be heard. Like a chat room, there's too many posts to concentrate on them all. You have to stand out to be seen. When I started, there were lots of posts happening all the time, it was an effort to slice in there - Inky managed it pretty smoothly, but it took me a little while to break through, even though the forums were barely a week old.

There's plenty of people here, and it's entirely possible for people to be befriended by the "old timers" - Aries, Polo, Commie, Tigersong... all came to us relatively late, but still got themselves in there by sheer force of their textuality!

KK, the old time forum elder has spoken. Take my wisdom with you and go out and be present!!

PS: SYUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How ya doin, sweetie?

IT'S TEH 'POLD!!!!

*throws all illusions of decency and manliness aside and clings to leo like...something girly with little decency*

I agree whole heartidly with Syuu. It really irritates me when people whine about not being noticed....be more assertive!!! I find when someone posts something of interest and relevance, I take notice and want to know the person. If people make themselves heard, how can they not be noticed?
I met most of my friends on here (yes, friends. I consider them to be quite close friends in fact) by sending them a PM just saying 'hi....befriend me'
What's the worst that can happen? They say no?!? Dear me!
People aren't going to stop being friends with everyone just because there are new people. Embrace the fact that there are lots of people in the world to get to know and be friends with!!!

Says the hermit...lol

LEEEEEEEEOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! Meep!! /me attackles and snuggles and appreciates and all that sorts'a stuff, more than enough to make up for all the time NOT cuddling the Leo

I'm doing well now, that made my day. After I wrote all that, I was thinking 'Well, what are the chances Leo'll actually read this? At least people will learn how to become insta-loved. And I agree, both Polos *and* Commie were both so loud and interesting, they demanded not to be ignored - latest, EvilSpoon popped into IRC yesterday, now that's one awesome spoon.

Lemmie know how you are too, eh Leo? Miss you much.

whatever weej we where drawn you to by your overabundance of charm and your nice ass not to mention your stellar personality and your ease of conversation.. it doesnt hurt that you are highly intelligent and have a great sense of humor.

she has a point though.. which I made way earlier in the thread.. but no one ever notices me.. nope never...cause I am a Ninja of course..

*lurks away undetected*

**coughs** bull sh)) **coughs**

oh nonsense, i've always known you were there, you just intimidate me is all

Let's all just go to IRC.

Or something.

hahahahahahahahahhaha
I love you lo... you make my junk happy

*bows up like body builder*
rawr!!!!!!!!!

Okay.. I think this subject is pretty much squashed.. So... lets all go on with our lives, try to be happy and positive...

*tries to look imposing*

i think the threads def. arent "what they used to be." i have been a member for over a year, and i literally spent about 5 months of my life, every day, religiously here. ever wonder how im still in the top 20 posters? lol. anyways, my life has changed a lot since i left. my best friends from home left (in case you dont know the story, they were both essentially kicked out) before i left the forums, and this entire year has been basically waiting for them to come back and trying (and failing) to make new friends. i miss everyone from the forums, but i just cant religiously come back anymore. at least im here a little though, eh?

That's right, crazi! And we're glad to have you, whenever you're in for a bit.

thanks i am feeling really down right now
i must admit though, since i have "left" the forums i lost a few lb (only like 5 though, but im in much better shape because instead of sitting around all day i am on soccer) and in the past few days especiall ive been getting my passion for painting again, and i also am reading more (books)

I'm just glad your back.. I'll take a little or a lot

I second that - always nice to see ya around Jecca

As usual im late to the thread

reaper- I know what you feel like. I was away for a while came back looked at the posts and almost didnt bother to come back at all (especially given my not so evil twin left and I checked back a few days after Dayan "went away" ). I always felt kinda as if I was intruding on everyone elses board, but then someone told me they missed me posting, which was kinda unexpected, so you can pbly pretty much garentee that SOMEONE on the board is glad to see you back. Its just a self confidence thing I guess.