i just saw this movie, its a liberal movie by micheal moore about george bush, the war on iraq, and 9/11. i personally didnt like it because i DONT WANT to know everything horrible that my country is doing that i cant control. once im old enough, i am definitly getting the F**k out of here, i can tell you that. anyways, did anyone else see it and what did you think etc?

I'm surprised no-one's been here to comment yet, seeing as this is a highly liberal forum. I'd really like to hear some thoughts, seeing as I probably won't see it myself for awhile...

It was, obviously, a somewhat slanted and biased movie. What disturbed me was that it was all true. Moore combined shocking, blunt truth with humor (alternating between grim humor and 'true' humor) to produce a powerful, excellent movie. Everyone should see the movie for themselves, whether you're politically active or not.

I refuse to see this movie on a moral ground. No, I don't like Bush... it's Moore that I hate. Really... He's number four on my top ten arch enemies list. Seriously.

1. Tipper Gore
2. Joe Lieberman
3. Todd McFarlane
4. Michael Moore
5. Oprah
6. Martha Stewart
7. Superman
8. Steven Segal
9. George Dubya Bush
10. Christina Agulera

They all know why.

As for the movie itself, it looks kind of interesting, I guess. The concept is decent, but again... I haven't seen it. Damn that man. Damn him straight to hell.

I really would like to see it, but I'm not sure how. I mean, none of my friends would even CONSIDER seeing it, and I'm uncomfortable on political terms with my father. It's not something he would want to go see anyway...he's mostly right-wing.

Why such hatred Mike?

I want to see it...but I doubt it'll come to my town. It's quite a conservative town. There's only one movie theater, and I doubt they'll bring that movie here. So I'll probably have to wait till it comes out on DVD, or maybe go to Boise.

You know? I've never asked myself why the hate. I've had issues for years with hatred of people that I don't know very well. Probably all stems back from my childhood... anger issues and the like. Woo hoo!

As for Michael Moore specifically, I don't like him. He's a self important ass that things he's Christ on Earth. People like that bother me to no extent, and goddamn Moore takes the cake. God I hate him.

Frankly, I already know how horribly the Bush administration has screwed up America, the White House, and Iraq. I don't need a movie to tell me so. I just don't want to watch Bush-bashing™ for two hours or so. Why do I need a movie to tell me what I already know. I'd sound hypocritical saying everyone should see the movie, so I won't.

I saw it today.. I think that you should go see it no matter what your views on bush are. It is slanted.. but the fact is it is true. These connections are a matter of public record. Most people have never taken the time to put the links together. Me and Kat new most of the stuff in the documentary but even we learned some new things... It was very enlighten. However I do feel that he is really preaching to the choir here.. but hopefully this will prompt people to take action and become actively involved in the upcoming elections.

It was top in the box office this weekend, so people are seeing it.

Did anybody else find that bit about the cop (or sargent or whatever he was) 'infiltrating' that peace group disturbing? Sure it was taken as funny, but the reasons they had kinda scared me.
As ofcourse said before, left wing slant ect ect. But it was a very good movie. Very well put together.
And I will always find that Britney Spears comment funny. It was funny back when she made it, tis' still funny now.

Just got back a minute ago from seeing it. Still riding the crest of the anger. Can't complete a proper sentence.

I have to agree that it definitely is biased. But it doesn't present itself as anything else, so you have to go in knowing that it's going to come off that way. Also: we all know Michael Moore can be extreme. Just don't be surprised by his methods of getting his message across.

I also felt that I was well aware of how much Bush and the country had screwed up. I didn't need a movie to sway me (nor should something as relatively trivial as a movie sway you). But, trust me, there are some volatile things in this film that the public should probably see-- the regular media would never want or be allowed to show some of the footage Moore shows. Some of it is frankly disturbing and chilling. But there's a lot of comic relief thrown in.

The connections made in this movie are of epic proportions. Whether it's being exaggerated or not, the core facts and footage used are true. If you think it's all coming off sounding like propagandist brainwashing, try to block out Moore's narration, see the boiled down information and work it out for yourself.

And, if you see this movie for no other reason, SEE IT JUST FOR THE ABSOLUTELY DISGRACEFUL GWB QUOTES. I lost count of how many times I had to hit myself in the forehead in frustration.

I haven't seen it, and I'm not sure if I will.

"Deceits" in the Movie

In case anyone's interested. This guy has compiled a list of deceiving things in the movie. Deceiving=misleading, in that sense. I've only read up to 16, but it's interesting. Just a few technicalities here and there...but it doesn't say that anything is not true, just worded in a misleading way.

EDIT:


Does anybody know what the well-known results of the war are?

I suscribe to this column, and this is the columnist's opinion on the movie. He doesn't like Bush or Moore, but he does like the movie...in ways you should click to see if you like.

Thought this might interest you; Ray Bradbury isn't happy about the title...

Even though I, rabid liberal that I am, have to admit that it was slanted, I just saw it and I have to say that I thought it was good. (I did think it was interesting that, when listing the US's sad, small allies, he didn't mention the UK.) Still, I don't know how anyone could watch it and not be horrified on some level. And Mike, don't be arbitrary; it's a good movie.

Maybe Moore should've checked with Bradbury before making an obvious reference for Fahrenheit 451? (When my mum was ordering the tickets, she mixed up the names.) It does seem a bit arrogant on his part. Of course, this from the author of Dude, Where's my Country? so honestly, we can't expect much in the way of respecting copyrighted titles.

Heh. I recently saw a book called "Micheal Moore is a Big Fat Stupid White Man." On the back it had his picture and it said "Dude, where's your integrity?" I liked it.

As for the movie itself... yeah, I'll probably see it when it comes out on DVD. I'm not being arbitrary in not wanting to see it. Hey artist, talked to your local Canadian lately? He's as against it as me (huh... we actually agree politically...) so he's getting a pirated version so Moore doesn't get the money. I think I'll see that.

Kind of off topic, but I've heard that you were seen crying by an Irish She-man during the movie. Confirm or deny?

Mike, what on earth are you banging on about?

Moore seems to have a slight presentation problem. He is a satirist, he always has been, and so he has always been making good points by charicaturing his targets. This doesn't mean that he is making things up about them, quite the opposite, but it does mean that he overblows certain aspects of their personalities and actions for effect. This isn't a problem as long as people understand it, when people come to his work expecting that they will see nothing except the absolute truth from a man who will not lie then that begins to cause problems.

Of course, defining 'exaggeration' as a lie (even when it is done through editting techniques) may be a bit harsh, but it is technically true.

I agree with pretty much every point I've ever heard Moore make, but sometimes the cult of his own celebrity status (how he is presented and presents himself in response to this) does obscure some of the good work that he is doing.

I'm glad he makes the films he does, and there is the point that without the exaggeration it's likely that most people would never have bothered to watch his films, so I think ultimately it is forgiveable. I just hope that they encourage people to think for themselves rather than blithely accept what he says as easily as others accept what GW Bush says.

Did I just get burned by Mata? I... likey!

Yeah, I did kind of ramble a bit, didn't I? Let's clarify. I dislike Moore with a passion. I dislike Bush with a passion. Farenheit 9/11 is a necessary movie, that I concede. However, I will not spend money to see that movie, rather I will see a spitefully pirated version of it. I'm not without funds, but goddamn it, he's not going to get them.

I hope that's better.

the local Canadian and I come daily within inches of ripping each other's trachea out and preforming a satanic dance on the mushy remains. So, no. [\spam]

The point of a movie isn't who made it; god knows most directors are gits. Do you read photocopied versions of books by authors you don't personally like? The movie makes some good points, and that's all I care about.

I didn’t know that directors got paid per person that saw the movie. I thought the theatre people had to pay to get the film, and then they get whatever the gross is. I can’t see them doing it the other way.
Why the dislike of Moore anyway? You just admitted it was a necessary film, so how is he wrong?
Personally I think its great he came out with the film. It seemed for a while that the government was controlling the media far too much for one. And at least to have people question what their government did. Seems like Moore brought a little more democracy back to America if you ask me. And it’s sad that people just start shooting off that he hates America because he made a movie insulting the current government.

Michael Moore made a movie. It's necessary, hell it may be good. I fundamentally don't like him because of a serious lack of integrity and his beyond annoying god complex. I don't like him.

Okay, let's look at this as a ridiculous extreme to prove a point.

Osama Bin Laden rights a book. It's an amazingly written book, to be mentioned in the same breath as Shakespeare and such. I would not read it. Period. Out of spite for that man, I wouldn't buy or read it. Period.

Granted, that's a ridiculous extreme, but that's what you need to take ideas to. Cheers.

[Actually I was referring to the Irish She-Man thing... But anyway...]

That's your choice, but I prefer to judge works on their merit. As I said above, I don't really like Moore as a person, but I like what he does, and have done for many years (I used to watch his TV program).

To pick up your metaphor, I usually judge a work (art/books/films, etc.) by how much I can enjoy them. Enjoyment can be intellectual, such as with a really good documentary about something hideous, of it can be whizz-bang, such as a big dumb action film, and all kinds of other things. I only really don't enjoy things when I find the values associated with them repulsive, so I wouldn't want to see a film that encourages violence towards homosexuals (for example). So, if Osama Bin Laden wrote a book, would I read it? Maybe, maybe not.

If the book was about his skewed interpretation of Muslim doctrine then I doubt I would. If the money from the book was going to him, then I doubt I would, but if it was a captured document that was being sold to raise money for global victims of terrorism, then maybe I would. It would actually be very interesting to read his words, and I bet it would be a best-seller.

My point is, even if you don't like Moore, it's still possible to enjoy his films because I find the things he discusses interesting.

Ah... the Irish she-man thing. I was making a reference to a friend of both of ours. I don't know if she got the reference.

Anyway... maybe I could enjoy it, but the problem is he keeps throwing his face on everything. He has to be the one yelling and screamning. He has to be the one who thinks he's god. He is the one that who makes my blood boil. Hell, maybe I could like it if he hired someone else.

Cheers.

So, yes, I went to go see it today.

There were some things that alarmed me. Like, senators admitting they barely read any of the bills they pass. Including one called the Patriot Act.

Also, I got to see some civilian casualties, crispy babies included. It was not good. There was this mother who was screaming to God to come and smite us Americans and to crush our houses. Also not very good.

There are actually people who go out to random civilians and hand out "Join the Army!" cards. Also, lots of people only join the army because they can't afford to put food on their plates, let alone go to college or get a decent job. Which is sad, because the army is a last resort for people who are poverty stricken. We send the poor to the front lines as fodder. Glory of war.

Everytime I saw Cheney I gagged. He is a scary man.

Lots of it alarmed me, and it's definatley not one of those movies that on the car ride home you think, "What was I just doing for 2 hours? Uh... Oh, that's right, I was at the theatre... what did I see?.."

Though I think he left out a lot of things, and yeah, probably did exaggerate and cheat a little, you gotta thank god it's right before election time. And soon, it'll be oin on DVD and VHS. Around October, I suppose.

EDIT: (psst, GTS, you can't escape the almighty last click button! Muahahaha! You'll never get away! *Realizes you could see me too if you wanted to...* Oh. Psst, over*

Thanks for the warning. You know the thread I had in Daft when I scared myself? I'm still freaked out about it. ><;

My other friend (the one who introduced me to Matazone) said the 9/11 sequence was done well, and that they rode around in an ice cream truck reading the Patriot Act. The latter made me immediately make a note to rent it.

(psst ARC - stop stalking me on the forums )

The Irish she-man was the one who cried. I was more foaming at the mouth than crying. Also, the Irish she-man will probably break a teacup over your head if word gets out of you making fun of the movie or conspiring with Canadians.



Yes, with the kind of shocking footage he has, it can speak for itself. And has has some pretty tear-jerking interviews. I'll concede, the movie is at its most powerful when he shuts up.

I saw this movie awhile ago. I though it was a good movie to see because it shows a lot of the things that the rest of the media doesn't show, especially with the footage from Iraq.

It's true that this film is a very one-sided approach to the situation, but it does show a different side that we normally don't get to see. How often do you see Crispy Babies on the normal nightly news program?

I've talked to a lot of people who refuse to see it because it's "all just propaganda" and whatnot. Which, the film certainly has a political agenda, but it also has some important things in it as well. When leaving the theater, I didn't feel like my opinions had been altered or swayed, I just felt like I had a few new things to take into consideration when defining my current opinions.

I saw it the other day. My feelings on it are mixed.

It was well-directed - I admit Moore's talents in that area. But it was so horribly and blatantly slanted that even I, expecting - nay, demanding - a left-liberal bias, was irritated.

Spoilers are ahead, but since it's non-fiction I'm guessing nobody will mind that much.

There's a segment about Baghdad before the war, showing all these idyllic pictures of weddings and kids playing in the street. Now, it probably was a more pleasant place to live before the war, I'm not denying that. But making out Hussein's regime to be one of peace and light is just stupid.

Moore makes fun of the 'Coalition of the Willing', juxtaposing the government describing it as "the mother of all coalitions" with a list of very small, economically and militarily weak countries that were members. He of course neglected to mention that the United Kingdom, Japan and Australia were also taking part.

I do watch the news. That means I've seen enough goddamn pictures of war victims to last me several lifetimes. That means I don't need about five minutes of them, to a background of emotional music. That kind of thing is cheap.

Moore spends the first part of the movie talking about Bush's highly questionable economic ties with Saudi Arabia in general and the bin Laden family in particular, and the ways in which this may have affected the manner in which he governs the United States. This is a very interesting and fruitful topic to explore, and Moore does it well. Sadly, from then it degenerates, hopping from point to point with little real coherence - apart, perhaps, from "Bush sucks!", a sentiment towards which I am sympathetic but, by now, extremely disinterested.


As an amusing - at least to me - aside: apparently, in the tanks they're using, Marines can play their own CDs whilst blowing stuff up (life imitating art?). In the scene where they explained this, a live Ozzfest album was playing. This makes sense; if I were blowing things up in a tank, I'd want some heavy metal playing too. However, in a later interview with a soldier, Jethro Tull's Aqualung was playing in the background. This filled me with an almost indescribable glee.

Just saw it last eveing. (It opened in Korea just the day before.) Much better than Columbine, IMHO, and better than I expected. From all the trashing from the neocons, I expected more vitriol at Bush than what I really saw.

The segement with the mother of the slain American soldier and her grief was the most affecting part for me, and I think it's because for a long time I had not really looked carefully at that element of loss, but rather that in most of my arguing with people about the war it was on more abstract concepts. Perhaps that's why.

I happened to look around the theater and that seemd to be the part that was affecting the Koreans there also. With all the anti-American sentiment lately, here they had a chance to see how the war has hurt our country as well, on a personal human basis.

And I also know that they were thinking hard about the planned deployment of Korean troops next month. It is a very controversial topic here.

I won't see this film until someone makes something along the same veins but from the other side. I liked my views to be balanced and I doubt I'd be able to make a balanced view from this movie, from what I've read and heard about it. He's entitled to his opinion but until I see the 'facts' from the other side I'd rather not pay to see it.

I actually was told that someone was making the "other side". Ha, the other side Clever pun

Actually, I believe I saw that someone was shooting a parody: "Michael Moore Hates America." I don't know... it may or may not be real, but that's what I heard. Looks funny though.

As for a real movie touting Bush as a hero? I doubt that will come along anytime soon. Then again, I probably wouldn't see it, either. Out of spite.

I don't discriminate! I hate everybody equally!

My uncle called yesterday. He was talking to my father. The conversation was pretty funny, from what I could hear on my father's end...

My uncle takes the movies very seriously...

He said he'd rather vote for Al Sharpton than Bush. It was funny because my father was absolutely dumbfounded. (my father is JUST LIKE THAT BOONDOCKS CARTOON in the election fun thread I posted! except maybe a little less harsh on Bush)

But you know, I'm OK with that...Michael Moore may be spinning some theories that are a bit too out-there, but the movie was factual.

For Mr Moore
The trust is a rarity and finds it out; it is a necessity for see beyond of the appearances.

end of the day?
never was clear up
fallen angel

I'm sorry but I have NO idea what you are talking about?

For this one I think he means that in the film Moore talks a lot and is a bit pushy on his opinion and wants people to read up on him.

That's interesting. You know, these days there aren't that many right-slanted movies. Perhaps it's becasue our current administration is right, or maybe it's becaue all of Hollywood are leftist. At any rate, I myself would go to see it, if not just to see what the other side is thinking- conversations with my not-so-local Canadian aren't quite enough. Oh, and poor Irish phosphate group.

What I want to say, it is that I would like to see it. I think that Michael Moore denounce the Bush’s mad political.
This release before the elections will permit perhaps to be aware of the facts of this political

end of the day?
never was clear up

If you thought F9/11 was mind blowing. You ain't seen nothing yet.


Click here to see what I mean.

The truth.







Michael Moore weites a lot of hooha. Read this. I reccommend the new movie coming out, "MICHAEL MOORE HATES AMERICA!!!!"

From what I can tell, Michael Moore actually loves America, that's why he criticises it the way he does. If you loved something, wouldn't you want it to be taken care of properly? He feels that it's being mishandled, so he tries to show that.

I sometimes wonder if satire has completely disappeared from the mental language of many Americans. It does seem to be a foreign concept. In the UK we're very accustomed to people stereotyping politicians and making their views seem more extreme to make a point about them funny as well as interesting. In the US it seems that anyone who says anything about anything slightly controversial needs to be waving flags saying 'this is a comedic observation' before people realise that perhaps the joke is trying to make an accurate point while not perhaps being absolutely factually correct.

I'm not meaning to imply that everyone in the US is like this, nor that everyone in the UK is, but it does seem to be a preoccupation of the US media to pick apart things and ignore their larger points of view, and many people seem to just follow this way of thinking.

Michael Moore makes some good points, and these should be taken into consideration. He is a satirist, of course he's going to exaggerate things, but he will rarely make unfounded statements because the point of satire is that 'it's funny because it's true'.

Hm. Never thought of it like that. Still, I wish less people would prance about the AOL boards saying, "WE can't re-elect Bush! Did you see what he did on Farenheit 9/11?", and trusting more in a movie(By the darned media I can't even tell if Proffesor Hawking is real or not.) than on the current issues and what they have to say. 'Sides, M.M.H.A. sounds like a funny movie, which at least gives me a good reason. Maybe it's all just because I'm a republican redneck, but who knows?

On the subject of comedey and politicians, I seem to remember something that popped up on the news.This land

Michael Moore loves money. He has no credibility to me because he has yet to give a cant to the people effected by Bush's poor decicions.

Hey i just got home from camp-great to see that this thread didnt just die. for personal reasons i do believe that most of the movie was truth, especially the scary crispy babies etc, and its really f--ing scary to think about. i didnt enjoy sitting through the movie and definitly thought it was preeching to the choir. however, from what ive heard, some undecided voters have actually gone to see it. if this movie actually makes a difference come election time, i'll be very happy, as much as i hated it. (in case you didnt know i totally hate bush but i just didnt like the movie either.) well kudos then.

*HUGE bump*

I got round to seeing the movie. It disturbed me in a very personal way, and in no way did I find it politically based. Perhaps this is because I concentrated on the human aspect of it?

Perhaps, with a little persepective, people's views may have changed? I'd like to know.

It's a difficult time to judge the reality of our situation. I fully believe that if Osama Bin Laden is half the bogey man that he's made out to be then he would have probably attacked countless places by now. While I don't doubt that he was behind the Twin Towers attack, I do think that perhaps his 'evil' empire, or whatever it's being called today, is of a far more limited scope than Bush or Blair would like us to believe.

It is the politics of fear. As someone said recently (but I can't remember who), campaigns were previously fought on what a politician could do for your future, now they ae fought on saying that they will be better at preventing things from getting worse. The reason is simple: nightmares leave a greater lasting impression than dreams.

In some ways it's difficult to follow the entire film because there is so much information in it. There's a lot of quick cutting to make people look worse than perhaps they really are, but as I said before, Moore is a satirist who is trying to make a point. I think this time I watched it (my second time) I came away with a greater impact of the personal stories than the politics. The first time I was interested in finding out more about the corruption in the Bush government, but I was already aware of a lot of it, so this time when watching I could more fully appreciate the enormity of the destruction that Bush's policies have wrought on the lives of millions.

Apparently rebel groups in Iraq are saying that they will shoot anyone that they see entering a polling office on Sunday. How's that for freedom.