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MistressAlti
Most of us have been here long enough to remember the Lord of darness threats and the fights that have come from it. As a forum voice, we decided with Mata that LoD's cruelty was no longer welcome here. Many hoped that the animosity we had come to know here would vanish with LoD's banishment.

It hasn't.

I've seen countless fights since I've been here, a few of which I have been involved in, and all of which have only served to cause irritation between the involved and annoyance to any bystanders. Forum members who have been here since the beginning feel alienated. The general feeling of kindness and goodwill that I once knew here has been quieted, and although it still exists, it lies underneath a layer of anger, intolerance, and unhappiness.

I bring this up not to judge anyone, for I am as guilty of causing this as anyone else in the forum. None of you are innocent, because you all either participated or let it happen. The muted frustration with the forum's current environment has gone on too long.

I personally would like to see the old forum mentality again, one where although we didn't necessarily like or agree with what one person says, we could express our disagreement or displeasure without either party being threatened, insulted, or made to feel unwelcome. I don't want to lose any more members because of these insensitive goings-on.

I ask you now, what do we do? Is any of this fixible, and if so, how do we go about it? If not, what then?
craziness
there was always this family feel to the forum, now with all these people leaving its starting to just turn into another forum. every forum i have seen except this one is definitly full of tons of angry people just yelling at eachother all the time. lets stop that.
Debaser
i don't think this is gonna be fixed. as far as i can see, 2 things will happen...

1) the current mentality will go completely out of the window (as opposed to it getting twisted now). all of the current members will leave, and a whole new branch of people will take up residence here.

2) mata will take the forums offline.
cheese is funny
i dont get it... this seemed like such a happy forum... with all the hugging and marriages going on... then one little, tiny, problem that could have been ignored completely blew up and it almost chased away a very cool person that just came here...
hinsley
wow. now look wat i started. i didnt get mad at anyone or say anything horrible. im off for the night. bye
prezgfish
any fighting i've done has been resolved (as it was personal with a friend in the real world)

otherwise its been a humour related fight no malice ever intended and if i offended anyone then you didn't get the joke or you dont find me at all funny so i'm sorry
gerbilfromhell
i miss the old forum (the first 2-3 weeks) everyone was so nice, no one argued, there wasn't this open hatred of neone you dun like. LISTEN EVERYONE, IF YOU DUN LIKE SOMEONE KEEP IT TO YOURSELF! SORRY IF I SOUND MEAN BUT NO ONE WANTS TO HEAR THIS HATRED! I THOUGHT YOU PPL WOULD LEARN FROM HOW YOU MADE LOD SO ANRGY/SAD (even if he did deserve to be banned it's not like ne of you actually helped his situation)! THEN TARANTIO CONSIDERED LEAVIN! NOW WE JUS HAD TO CONVINCE HINSLEY NOT TO LEAVE! I'M ALMOST GLAD I'M LEAVIN SOON FOR ABOUT 4 MONTHS CAUSE I REALLY DUN WANNA DEAL WITH THIS HATRED!
MistressAlti
Cheese, this problem didn't just start today. It's been seen so many places besides hinsley's thread.
leopold
I agree with missy 100% here...

I used to be in another sort of forum thing... this was the Sellotape Website. I used to really enjoy posting there, but it all got out of hand. Now it's closed. And it was because the admin got fed up with keeping a rein on it.

We need more moderators. It's the only real answer. I go to one forum an the people there are never as bad, cos if they misbehave they get pulled up for it. There'd be no mass spams, no stupid zillion word posts... I suppose it's policing it all a bit but it's essential.

"True freedom cannot exist without boundaries"

That's all I hafta say on the subject...
ravein
well the way I see it, it is up to us.. we can either find ways to get along... try to find the root of the problem and fix it... of throw herald to the wind and say frock off.. Honestly I dont want to see that happen.
CrissiLove
I haven't been here as long as many of you... but one of the main reasons I stuck around was because of the people who were here. Everyone seemed nice, funny, and to genuinely get along! I don't know what has happened, but things just seem to be getting worse and worse all the time.... I really hope that all of the fighting drama stops.
craziness
i really hope that we can resolve everything, and i can understand why mata might take the forums offline, but i dont think that would make any of us happier, weve all made so many friends. hinsley, its really not your fault, a lot of people had bad days today and came here grumpy, and ever since the whole thing with LoD things have been a little weird, it could have been anyone, i think its just because he was such a super-poster like you, and people are kind of afraid of that because of what happened with him.
MistressAlti
QUOTE (gerbilfromhell @ May 7 2003, 05:26 PM)
i miss the old forum (the first 2-3 weeks) everyone was so nice, no one argued, there wasn't this open hatred of neone you dun like. LISTEN EVERYONE, IF YOU DUN LIKE SOMEONE KEEP IT TO YOURSELF! SORRY IF I SOUND MEAN BUT NO ONE WANTS TO HEAR THIS HATRED! I THOUGHT YOU PPL WOULD LEARN FROM HOW YOU MADE LOD SO ANRGY/SAD (even if he did deserve to be banned it's not like ne of you actually helped his situation)! THEN TARANTIO CONSIDERED LEAVIN! NOW WE JUS HAD TO CONVINCE HINSLEY NOT TO LEAVE! I'M ALMOST GLAD I'M LEAVIN SOON FOR ABOUT 4 MONTHS CAUSE I REALLY DUN WANNA DEAL WITH THIS HATRED!

Gerbil, yelling here doesn't solve anything. Please stop accusing people. The LoD incident is over and there's no use blaming people for it.

Many people have considered leaving, including myself. Some of us make our thoughts about it more public than others, but I imagine most of us have considered it at one point or another.
ravein
also i think that this may just be growing pains. We have alot of new folks in here and we have a lot of old folks in here. I really think things just need to cool down.. I left cause lod was a pain in the arse..
This forum was for people to get together and discuss the ideals behind matas creations. We would not know each other if it wasnt for him. we should be respectfull of his ideals, his creations, and his bandwidth. wink.gif
gerbilfromhell
sry missy, i've jus had a really crappy week and it all came out there. not that that excuses nethin i jus really can't deal with hatred. neways, it's not my choice that i'll be leavin soon, i've got finals to cram for, then i'm gone for almost the whole summer........... o well, hopefully this hatred'll jus go away while i'm gone and if it doesn't i'll probably jus leave for good. no point'n stayin on an angry forum. o, btw jus to show another example of a perfectly good forum gone bad, try the newgrounds.com forums (www.newgrounds.com/bbs). i've never posted cause everyone's so hateful and angry. go to the forum. look at it then come back and think about whether you want this forum to become like that one
cheese is funny
i agree with gerbil, the newground forums are horrable... i dont want our little family to be broken up like this...
Debaser
i know what you mean, gerbil...this is the greatest forum in the entire earth, and i don't wanna see it collapse due to the sheer amount of anger floating around...
ravein
everyone has had a crappy week... (I feel like this is a meeting of the tribal elders) its okay sweetie... I think this thing with hins was just the icing on the cake.
It was nothing against her, but when you have posts so long that it screws up the page format that gets annoying. I dont know. I dont see this as a major problem.. I just think that people need to think about what they post and not how much they post. Quality over Quanity maybe?
prezgfish
I very nearly left after lod spammed every damn board and bored me too death with the same crap and after my big fight with tarantion that almost f*ck*d up a friendship

but i'm staying no i dont have any problems (i'm even ok with inky[that was always my own madness]) so em thats all folks
MistressAlti
QUOTE (gerbilfromhell @ May 7 2003, 05:34 PM)
no point'n stayin on an angry forum.

And that's why I'm trying to exact some change around here. I don't want us to become Newgrounds, overrun by a bunch of immature posters who have nothing better to do than cause pain to others via the internet.
hinsley
1. i never got angry at all!! 2 i wasnt the one who started the really long posts. whoever that was did it for ISH. i did it after for NESS. 3. bo selceta!!!
gerbilfromhell
k, ravein, i'll remember that (i haven't been spammin so much tho)
craziness
i would really hate to get back from camp to find this gone. i would hate to finally get my computers internet back and not be able to use it for matazone anymore, please dont let this happen.
gerbilfromhell
QUOTE (hinsley @ May 7 2003, 11:41 PM)
1. i never got angry at all!! 2 i wasnt the one who started the really long posts. whoever that was did it for ISH. i did it after for NESS. 3. bo selceta!!!

dun worry hinsley, she's talkin to me
MistressAlti
QUOTE (hinsley @ May 7 2003, 05:41 PM)
1. i never got angry at all!! 2 i wasnt the one who started the really long posts. whoever that was did it for ISH. i did it after for NESS. 3. bo selceta!!!

Hinsley, this is not an accusation towards you, nor is it towards anyone else in particular. Your thread might have been the straw that broke the camel's back, so to speak, but it is not because of you that I started this discussion.
gerbilfromhell
another example: the clock crew forums. the clock crew was a group ostacised by evil newgrounds posters and they started their own website complete with a forum. here's one example of the anger there: they have gangs that 'mug' noobs, send them angry emails, and hack their computers......if the forum turns into that i really think it'd be better for it to be taken offline cause i really doubt neone wants that kinda hatred and anger on the forums
hinsley
straw that broke the camels back? riiiiiiiiiiiight yuove lost me. im goin to spam. kick me off if you like
leopold
Okay, so I know I said I said all I was gunna say...

One other option occurs... if someone annoys ya, how about just usin PMs?? Why clutter the board with it??

(Yes, I know I should do too!! We should all learn somethin here!!)
prezgfish
QUOTE (gerbilfromhell @ May 7 2003, 11:45 PM)
another example: the clock crew forums. the clock crew was a group ostacised by evil newgrounds posters and they started their own website complete with a forum. here's one example of the anger there: they have gangs that 'mug' noobs, send them angry emails, and hack their computers......if the forum turns into that i really think it'd be better for it to be taken offline cause i really doubt neone wants that kinda hatred and anger on the forums

gerbil that sounds pretty fu**ed up right there
hinsley
when 9i say im gonna spam i mean im gonna write stuff again. whixch is spamming realyl any way aint ti.
MistressAlti
QUOTE (hinsley @ May 7 2003, 05:45 PM)
straw that broke the camels back? riiiiiiiiiiiight yuove lost me. im goin to spam. kick me off if you like

I mean that the fights surrounding your posting today were the final things in a long list of things that needed to be discussed.

And please don't go do that, I don't want you to have to leave.
cheese is funny
QUOTE (hinsley @ May 7 2003, 11:45 PM)
im goin to spam. kick me off if you like

dont go do anything and get banned on purpose... hinsley... id miss you.... please, dont let whats happened today make you leave...
gerbilfromhell
QUOTE (hinsley @ May 7 2003, 11:45 PM)
straw that broke the camels back? riiiiiiiiiiiight yuove lost me. im goin to spam. kick me off if you like

hinsley, no one will kick you off for spamming. i'm still here right, mata's never even gotten mad@me for spamming. dun worry, if you wanna spam, you won't be kicked off. if you wanna cut down on your posts to maybe 50-150 a day, that's fine too. that's what's great about the forum (or used to be neways) we dun judge ppl
ravein
no that is a really good idea leo... if you have a problem with someone PM them, talk about it.. and I wasnt trying to be hatefull earlier.. I was just making a point for me and matt.. (see having a problem and talking about it smile.gif ) and I know you didnt start it Hins.. never siad you did.. and it wasnt you either gerbil.. you have been really good lately tongue.gif
cheese is funny
ok, heres my idea on what should be done...

everyone should leave the forums for a couple of days... and not come back till sunday or monday... everyone needs to cool off... and i think a couple of days away from the forum would do us all good... i dont know.... thats what im gonna do shortly... i hope some people think this is a good idea and join me.. i know when i come back, i will be alot less angry then i am right now...

and i will say again that i do not want hinsley to leave for any reason.... hinsley, please stay...
prezgfish
QUOTE (hinsley @ May 7 2003, 11:47 PM)
when 9i say im gonna spam i mean im gonna write stuff again. whixch is spamming realyl any way aint ti.

dont worry bout it hinsley you rock in my book as does your wife
leopold
QUOTE (ravein @ May 7 2003, 11:51 PM)
no that is a really good idea leo... if you have a problem with someone PM them, talk about it.. and I wasnt trying to be hatefull earlier.. I was just making a point for me and matt.. (see having a problem and talking about it smile.gif ) and I know you didnt start it Hins.. never siad you did.. and it wasnt you either gerbil.. you have been really good lately tongue.gif

That's ok rave... we've all been there... remember all that back an forth a few weeks back when I swore on the board? Like I say, we could all do wi learnin to control ourselves.

An that includes the finger pointin, people! This isn't PMed cos there's too many an I'm too tired...
MistressAlti
Leaving for short periods of time has always been my method for dealing with online fights. A few hours, sometimes overnight, and after I'm properly cooled off, I come back and it's done with. There's no reason for the cruelty that goes on here.
Debaser
that's a good idea, cheese. hopefully, people might have calmed themselves down a bit by then...
gerbilfromhell
QUOTE (cheese is funny @ May 7 2003, 11:53 PM)
ok, heres my idea on what should be done...

everyone should leave the forums for a couple of days... and not come back till sunday or monday... everyone needs to cool off... and i think a couple of days away from the forum would do us all good... i dont know.... thats what im gonna do shortly... i hope some people think this is a good idea and join me.. i know when i come back, i will be alot less angry then i am right now...

and i will say again that i do not want hinsley to leave for any reason.... hinsley, please stay...

sry cheese, that's a good idea, but if i did that, i'd have almost no time on the forums before i'd be forced to leave (basicly forever i'll be around occasionally)
leopold
QUOTE (cheese is funny @ May 7 2003, 11:53 PM)
ok, heres my idea on what should be done...

everyone should leave the forums for a couple of days... and not come back till sunday or monday... everyone needs to cool off... and i think a couple of days away from the forum would do us all good... i dont know.... thats what im gonna do shortly... i hope some people think this is a good idea and join me.. i know when i come back, i will be alot less angry then i am right now...

and i will say again that i do not want hinsley to leave for any reason.... hinsley, please stay...

Prolly not a bad idea... especially fer those who are angry...

I personally ain't feelin angry. I'm not happy about the animosity risin again, but I'm not angry...
MistressAlti
My concern with people leaving, though, is that nothing really resolves. It just sits until the fight is cold, and we move on, until it happens again. Changes must be made if anything's to be solved.
LoLo
I was talking to Missy about this in chat........I don't know if this sounds like a good idea or one that may even possibly happen but hows this.......

The posters that have been here for quite a while, have established themselves as frequent posters, seem to hold a lot of clout around here, and seem to even be respected by the newer people that come here. So as being the "older" members to the board, maybe we should work a little harder to try to keep the maturity level up and set an example for the newer posters, as to what type of forum this used to be and has the potential to be again.

Just a suggestion.
prezgfish
respected me haha ha
leopold
QUOTE (LoLo @ May 8 2003, 12:02 AM)
I was talking to Missy about this in chat........I don't know if this sounds like a good idea or one that may even possibly happen but hows this.......

The posters that have been here for quite a while, have established themselves as frequent posters, seem to hold a lot of clout around here, and seem to even be respected by the newer people that come here. So as being the "older" members to the board, maybe we should work a little harder to try to keep the maturity level up and set an example for the newer posters, as to what type of forum this used to be and has the potential to be again.

Just a suggestion.

Yes... that's a damn good idea, is that!

Or some of us are made moderators, as I said before... that way we could erase the ill feelin an stupid posts on behalf of everyone...
Jonman
I agree Missy, but at the end of the day, a forum is just that - it's open to all, to come and go as folk see fit.

I think it's perfectly usual for any forum, especially one where there's a high proportion of younger hot-headed folk to go through phases of aggro. Especially as new people come in and post without getting a feel for the vibe of the place. It's also a very dynamic environment, and it's perfectly natural for the place to change as the membership grows and changes. In fact, it ought to as the place is formed by the contributions of all and the interactions between the evolving membership.

I advocate acceptance over enforcement. If someone's spamming up the place, or some such, try a friendly PM suggesting that they cut it back a wee bit. If that doesn't work, PM myself and/or Mata and we'll do the same. Most people are fairly rational, and will respond positively as long as they don't feel that you're taking the piss, talking down to them or insulting them. If they don't, then and only then do we even consider taking further action. I'm pretty darned sure Mata doesn't want to get into the position of controlling the forums with an iron grip. I'm also darned certain that he's not into the concept of censorship. That's why there's a Rules post pinned to the top. Self-censorship is what he's aiming for.

What I also don't want to see happening (and I don't think it has, just for the record) is an old-skool vs noob situation that tends to happen in a lot of forums. We, as the old-guard, need to be as welcoming as possible, accomodating of people's varying behaviour as long it's within certain limits, and educating rather than punishing when that behaviour falls outside of what we consider acceptable for the forum as a whole.

Call me a liberal old hippy if you will, but there it is...
ravein
Okay here is my last word on this... I am off work and I am going home for the day...
This is Matas forum, we should all be mindfull/respectfull of his bandwith and server space..second
Here are a list of Matas rules.. if we have a problem with someone, talk to them. if that does not resolve it speak to Mata. Lastly, try to be a good influence on everyone, set a good example, love your neighbor, get drunk once a week... yap yap yap...
Please see Matas rules below. The most important rule is in red.

Hi all, welcome to my forum.

There are a couple of rules that you need to bear in mind when posting on here:

1) no hatred: This means that there is to be no sexism, racism or homophobia. You can joke as long as everyone understands you're joking but if there is breech of this rule I ban you. Simple as that.

2) mind your language: Whilst my site and this forum are for people with a certain maturity to handle issues this doesn't mean that they have an old vocabulary. Be sensible, some of the people looking at this might be very young and I've never been in the game of corrupting innocents. I've not put restrictions on the language you can use in posts because I hope you'll be responsible. Anyway, it's far more fun to be creative with your swearing, 'arsebuckets' is a favorite of mine.

3) no intimidation: You're online, don't bother making threats. It's not big, it's not clever and it's very dull to read.

Okay, that's it. Have fun!
Mata

--------------------
The Other Side
gerbilfromhell
some of us've been doin that already, lolo, but it's still a good idea. maybe we could warn the angry ppl to keep it to themselves or somethin. i bet things'd be so much better if we got a frequent poster a mod (and i'm not talkin about me.... maybe someone like leo who's here a lot and seems to always be a mediator of the arguments)
hinsley
i thought the oldies treated the n00bies well!!!
ravein
QUOTE (Jonman @ May 7 2003, 08:06 PM)
Call me a liberal old hippy if you will, but there it is...

I love you, you liberal old hippy smile.gif
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