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Mata
I've been looking into ways to make this site actually generate rather than deteriorate my income, and the old demon advertising has reared it's head.

It's worth mentioning that having the advertising on my site and people clicking on them regularly will mean that I shouldn't need to ask for donations any more.

I'm pretty convinced on the idea, but I'd like to check your feelings on this.
Moosh
Yay! first person to vote

*ahem*

I would be a bit irritated if there were banner ads, but as long as you didn't start allowing popups I probably wouldn't mind that much. I could just go and download the ad blocker extension for Firefox and just see blank space though
trunks_girl26
Thereby effectively defeating the whole purpose.

happy.gif
Mata
No, definitely no pop-ups. I despise the things. It would be nice if the regulars could make a habit of clicking on banners though, because I would get revenue per-click (although I suspect it will also be per-IP address, so multiple clicks wouldn't make any difference).
ravein
I have no problem with it, and I would be happy to click on your banner.
CommieBastard
So long as you don't start inserting them into the animations. Somehow, Little Goth Girl would lose its spark if Sarah stopped midway through to enjoy a cool, refreshing Dr. Pepper ™ tongue.gif
Polocrunch
Suddenly I'm really thirsty. Say, has anyone got a spare Coke or something?
Usurper MrTeapot
I dislike adverts but I'd rather Mata eat. Plus having not donated myself I don't think I have any right to say otherwise. So I will click the adverts also.

*curses lack of cash and job*
Mata
Sales of Mr Sb Max have been slumping a little lately...
mooooooooooopo
I wouldn't really be annoyed by banner ads.

If it turns out that delerium from lack of food was inspiring the animation goodness (and curtain monsters) then I may change my mind on the matter though. tongue.gif
acid_rain_child
I'm touched you stopped to ask us before putting the ads up Mata, that's sweet smile.gif

Banners are easily ignored, and I trust you won't advertize anything annoying or that you don't believe in.

Oh, and I'm sorry you live on beans and rice to keep this site running. Advertize away, Mata!
Mata
It's not exactly beans and rice... Well, not all the time! But no, I also don't make a fortune either. If the advertising goes well then I should hopefully be able to pay my rent with the money, leaving just the food to poke around for, which would be rather nice.

Since everyone seems to be okay with the idea, I'll go ahead with it. There's a company that acts as an intermediary between me and advertisers. I've informed them of the nature of my site (games, films, technology, books = good, definitely no adult material) so hopefully they should do a decent job of hooking up appropriate advertisers.

If it goes well, then hopefully the adverts should be things that you're actually interested in anyway, so they will be quite useful... Okay, maybe that's a little too optimistic, but it is possible!
Hobbes
In terms of banner-style advertising, I've always preferred the vertical banners. Having a horizontal one at the top of the page is more annoying, I think. But a lot of sites incorporate a vertical one into the edge of their page design - and it seesm more seamless. I'd think it would be easier to design a site around a vertical banner, than a horizontal one? But then, I guess that does depend on the type of site.

In any case; some extra , $$$ or for Mata would be lovely.
Sir Psycho Sexy
You go girl! Earn some money off of us mooching bums!

What's more, you can expect anyone who complains on the forum to be flamed out of existance....in a nice polite way.

It'd be funny if you could work some of them into Mr Snaffleburger "This episode of Mr Snaffleburger is bought to you by....."
JimiJimi
Although a bit of product placement would be funny, nothing so obvious as in I Robot...

'Converse Allstar, vintage 2004 [2004? Recognise that year? Yes, that's your year, that means you can buy them! Yes! Then you can be like Will Smith! Now doesn't everyone want that?]'.

Anyway, as long as everyone vows to click on them AND THERE ARE NO CRAZY FROG/SWEETY THE CHICK BANNERS then I think it's a good idea, but I'd still be happy to donate if needbe. Also I prefer vertical on the right and horizontal on the bottom, but no pop-ups is good... smile.gif

I think I've droned on for long enough now, but I think it's a good idea, and as long as it doesn't get in the way I've voted for the first choice. unsure.gif
snooodlysnoosnoosnoodle
Although I back the ad's I'm not keen on vertical ones, it may be that I never have my browser windows in full screen so taking space from the sides causes me issues. It's just an OCD thing, I'm sure I'll get over it... unless they are the flashy "You're the 10,0000000000000000000000000th person to view this page" type thing.
mooooooooooopo
Skyscraper ads make sense on sites that are designed for them but they rather clash with the design of Matazone.co.uk (note menus down both sides) and the forums (need the full width of the screen or they would just be annoying, and the pages are too tall for it to work properly without big gaps).

Banners would probably fit okay, provide less disturbance (since people tend to design pages so they scroll up and down) and personally I find them less intrusive.
Hobbes
Banners on the main site, or on the forums too?
Mata
The current plan is for banners on the tops of all pages. That way it's easy to scroll down and get them out of view but they also get the maximum amount of views.

I'm not sure how much control I will have over what goes on there. Obviously I'd like to make sure that it's not the bloody annoying ones that flash at you, tell you you're being hacked, launch cougars at your toes, etc. but I'm not certain I will be able to do this.

For purely practical reasons I won't be getting the skyscraper ads on the side of the window. This is because I'm really not sure how to make them work with the page layout! Also they would probably make it so that on lower resolution monitors (800x600) a vertical banner would be off the side of the page when placed next to an animation, which would be really annoying. Lastly, it's easier to scroll an annoying banner off-screen than it is to get past a vertical one, and I want it to be possible for people to ignore them as easily as possible if they want to.
Righteous
I personally wouldn't dig them at all. For me, a lot of times they make the page take about eight to ten years to load. And call me weird, but it could give this place the feel of being purely commercial. However, this is not my site; it's Mata's and he needs to pay bills at the end of the month. Depending on the company, I wouldn't mind terribly. If it was something sweet and pertinant to our collective tastes, I'd be cool with that. If it was something like "Fix your debt today!" then I'd be quite upset.

Once again, it's Mata's site and he pays the bills, so whatever happens, happens. That's just my two cents.
Mata
I can really understand your view. I didn't want to have to do this. As you can see, take-up of the banner system that I've already got has been pretty low, and the income from it has been tiny. I tried to run it myself, but big companies just don't want to talk to the little guy, even when they make games and you run a website that has a majority of young and technologically aware people visiting it.

Essentially I need to make sure that I don't leave all my eggs in one basket. I'm bored of fighting each month to make the income add up to the bills, so I need to find a way to make a living with what I've got.

I've emphasised the types of things that I'd like to be advertising. I'll be using the same company as Weebl's site, which usually does a good job, and only _occasionally_ does annoying adverts.

I've come to the conclusion (again) that while it's all well and good being completely independent, you can't pay the bills easily if you don't occasionally suckle from the corporate nipple. Looking on the bright side, you guys can help me take their money. Hurrah!
Usurper MrTeapot
One site, which I shant name, decided to put adverts up without for warning and after the initial uproar I don't think they were noticed at all. One side was the bar with links, the other side was a phat advert column but after a while it just became part of the layout.

For one I'm glad Mata asked us. *bows*
Novander
First the b3ta newsletter, now you... what is the internet coming to?

But seriously, I'm not going to run away just because a little bar of epilepsy appears at the top of the screen, and if it gets you extra money, you go for it.

One simple question though: do you promise that if you win the jackpot on the lottery, you'll get rid of the banners?
CommieBastard
Please implement Google ads on the forums biggrin.gif Considering some of the stuff we talk about, that would be hilarious.
Usurper MrTeapot
QUOTE (Novander @ Apr 1 2005, 05:53 PM)
One simple question though: do you promise that if you win the jackpot on the lottery, you'll get rid of the banners?
*


If he does then perhaps we'll be seeing Mittens banners on other websites, or maybe TV even oh that would be good.
Righteous
Even if these banners do come to fruition, I'm still gonna come to Matazone and I won't hold it against you. Besides, we can hope that they won't be crappy adverts of things that have absolutly nothing to do with the tastes or interests of us Matazonians.

We still love you, Mata.
froggle-rock
I do not have that much of a problem, needs be 'n' all. *shrugs* , but I'd rather that people donated so that you didn't have to put banners up.

C'est la vie.
Cath Sparrow
I'm in no position to complain I cant afford to donate so I cant afford to complain if you want to do something the will keep the site running. and as you've said we can soon scroll past them and as long as there not horribly flashy I cant see them being that annoying.
Arachnidoc18
As long as it doesn't seem like the "kill the popups" game.
Righteous
Hmm. Depending on how much money gets raked in from these ads, I might actually dig them. Annoying or not, if the ads make Mata a good bit of money, than by all means, have at it.
arachnidoc17
Actually, I'm surprised you didn't sell out in the first place. All the web hosters I know put banners on their sites as soon as they put the site on-line.
Mata
QUOTE (Novander @ Apr 1 2005, 05:53 PM)
But seriously, I'm not going to run away just because a little bar of epilepsy appears at the top of the screen, and if it gets you extra money, you go for it.

Yep, that's the plan, although hopefully the 'little bar of epilepsy' adverts will be avoided. I'm doing my best, but time will tell how much influence I hold.

QUOTE (Novander @ Apr 1 2005, 05:53 PM)
One simple question though: do you promise that if you win the jackpot on the lottery, you'll get rid of the banners?
*

I solemnly promise that if I ever get rich enough to the point where the income from the banners becomes meaningles then... Actually, then I'd be far more likely to keep the banners and give the money to charity.

I see putting up banners as a way of getting money out of corporations that can afford to advertise without being particularly concerned about who hears their message. These are not businesses that usually have the final consumer first in their mind at any time, so I will be perfectly happy to take away their cash. If it gets to the point where I no longer need their cash then I would happily give it to somewhere else that does need it.

Frog, yes, I agree that it would be lovely if I could sustain the site (ie. be able to live) on donations alone but it's just not happening. If every visitor to my site donated only 1p (that's about 2c to Americans) then I would have an income of around 1200 per month! which is considerably more than my current income, and a great deal more than my monthly donations. Banners won't bring in nearly that much, but they will be a way that visitors can make sure I get a small amount of money from their visit, and the best part is that it will be at absolutely no cost to them!

Arachnidoc, I don't think of this as selling out but as a way of getting money from corporations. It's not exactly promoting a state of equality by lining them up against a wall, but it is a practical step towards a bit of wealth redistribution.

It's been nice to avoid non-corporate advertising, but I can't avoid it forever. There are points at which the lesser of two evils has to slip through: when it comes to the option of struggling every month to pay the rent or to having advertising on my site then I know which I'm going for.

I'm quite proud that this site has been around in various forms for about four years without doing this, but I also think it's about time I tried to get a reasonable living out of this. I can't keep on working full-time but living on a student's income for all my life!
froggle-rock
I know the search thingies have't been around long, but I have to admit that they don't bother me down there in their home at the bottom of the page.

*hugs Mata*
Righteous
I barely notice them. It's not as bad as I thought it would be. Advertize away, Mata.
Mata
QUOTE (Righteous @ Apr 11 2005, 03:59 AM)
I barely notice them. It's not as bad as I thought it would be. Advertize away, Mata.
*

smile.gif I hope they're not so in the background that people don't notice them!
uuu
I like to see that people have stood up for something and fought for good things but I'm used to the ads all over everything sad to say.

Fighting with the world is hard (I've tried) and as an individual it is almost impossible and (please don't be offended) to see someone lose their small battle with the world. It is no uncommon event, I don't know how seriously you take it, if it is within the scope of your imagination to lose this battle or if no-ads is the point or some serious issue personally (It was some the point...) I hope it's all right with you, It's your project, I hope you can stand it...but I'll continue to enjoy the aninmations and games...Thanks

I'm sorry (about your battle)
uuu
You may have thought about it enough, sorry
Mata
Thanks for that, it's nice to hear that people do understand that this is quite a big decision for me. As I say above, I do think of this as a way to take money away from corporations, so I'm not bothered about it ethically that way, but I do wish that I had worked out some other way to make money from this site rather than having messages displayed at the top of it that I don't necesarily agree with.
trunks_girl26
Since I do a bunch of my book-buying from Amazon, I'll definately use the links. And since Matazone's normally open on my computer all day, it's just easier happy.gif.
Mata
Right, I want to put this in realistic terms. I am not about to lie to anyone about anything to do with this site, so this is the situation:

I am broke.

I am living on the money that I can earn each month, and that's pretty much it.

However, if I ever get to the point where I really cannot scratch together money out of the aether (which I'm very good at doing) then I will find myself a temp office job. I am absolutely not above getting a crappy temp job inputting data for some mean-nothing company in Godforesaken, Hamshire if needs be.

I will survive.

If people click on the banners on this site (when they arrive) then that might mean that I never have to get desperate for money again.

Now... I can understand most people thinking 'why do I care? It's only one click' but if every person who visited my site clicked then that would mean.. Well, if every person who visited my site for four days clicked a banner then I would make enough money to pay my rent and buy me food for the month. If that was kept up for only one month then I would have enough to pay me for a year.

I'm not begging. I am stronger than that and I have the ability to survive whether people give me money or whether I have to go out into the fray for it.

I like to put it in the terms of a busker on the street. If you stood an wathed a guy playing a song for a few minutes them you'd want to give him money, and that's what clicking a banner will do.

When I started this site I was busking to buy food. I still think of things in that way.
Righteous
I told my brother and his girlfriend that if they have any plans on buying anything off of Amazon to come over here and order via the forums. Rick's cool with that idea because he digs the animations and, based on what I've told him, thinks Mata's an awesome guy. I'm gonna tell my friends to do the same, as I'm sure at least a few of them order off of Amazon.
Samorine
QUOTE (Mata @ Apr 13 2005, 01:47 AM)
If people click on the banners on this site
*


Okay, so you don't actually have to buy from Amazon? Because I can't buy from there, but I have no problem whatsoever clicking it as many times as you like... What's the clicking rule?
Mata
Sam: I only get money from Amazon if people place an order with them. Clicking doesn't pay with those guys.

Banners will be up on this site within a week I think, and it turns out it's going to be on the basis of impressions, ie. the number of people who see the banners, not clicks. It's a certain amont of money per thousand views, otherwise known as CPM, so in the future it will all be about the amount of browsing you do on my site. To put it another way, reading the forums regularly in future will help earn me money. Hurrah!
Usurper MrTeapot
Oh so the banners already up aren't the pay to click ones? The E-Shoplist ones? As I've already been exploring that.
Mata
No, the little ones on my site already were my attempt to make money independently through advertising. It turns out that no big companies want to deal directly with people like me, and small companies aren't interested enough in advertising on here. Ho hum.

This said, E-Shoplist is pretty cool anyway, so there's no harm done there. I'm actually not sure when their adverts on my site were supposed to stop, but I suspect it was a while ago. Somehow its duration got set to permanent, so I've now changed it to run out in a couple of months. After that it will just be the banner in memory of Dayan on that area, which will be there until January, as asked for by his mother. Once that one has expired I'll take of my own banners. It might be a bit crowded for a while, but I'm sure we'll get used to it.

With the new banners it is entirely the amount of impressions that counts, not whether anyone clicks them or not, so just leave them alone and try to ignore them and it'll be fine.
SPEAKERfortheLOST
GO FOR IT!!!

I mean really it would be way more prudent to see those everywhere rather than some of the {insert explitive here} that is seen on the web now...
depressed lonely crazy person
banners of any kind anywhere on the page aren't a problem for me. if I could make a donation I would.
Do we think that we could try to group up people in the same country so that we cound donate without having to have all the bits and bobs ourselves?
Sir Psycho Sexy
Will they be logging whether is the same people looking at it over and over or not? Like with the Amazon thing there's a 24 hour expiration period or something.
Hobbes
QUOTE (Mata @ Apr 13 2005, 06:44 PM)
To put it another way, reading the forums regularly in future will help earn me money. Hurrah!
*


Aha... but if we read more regularly, that means a greater amount of bandwidth used, which means you might exceed your current limit, which means you'll have to pay for more... which means we'll have to visit even more regularly in order to cover the new costs, which'll use more bandwidth and...

biggrin.gif

In any case, I really don't have a problem with there being banners on this site. I'm guessing about 99% of the sites I visit have advertising of some sort, and the only time it annoys me is when it is in the form of a pop-up/under or one of those DHTML graphics that sit in the middle of the page until you close it. The standard banner is no problem. Plus, knowing that everytime I see it raises a little bit of cash for the site makes it worth it.

I hope it works out for Mata and the site.
Moosh
When are the banners going up?

EDIT: I've just seen it, ignore this question
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