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depressed lonely crazy person
Like the one Mina wears in Dracula?. The one with keanu reeves and Winona ryder
Do you mean a bonnet?

Most of these look very Pilgrim-y, but I think if the patterns were given a lace trim (black, to go with the corset, of course!) then they could look pretty good.

Have a look at this for some inspiration:
Cath Sparrow
I think Ki77y's meaning some thing more alone these lines the actual bonnets.


They've actally had some really awful one's in Debenhams lately.
Cath was closer but I hate the point x.x; But from what I've seen thats really all there is.... DLCP- I havent seen the movie so I dont know....
Cath Sparrow
This is what DLCP was refering to.

Ah yes, now that is a very cool hat. I've no idea how you'd begin to make one of those. Milinery isn't something I've ever really strayed into.
Say hello to Ms. Mad Hatter!


I dont know if I'll tackle this project or not.... or just spend hours searching through ebay instead.... I have a feeling I wont be a good hat maker =(

Finding what kind of hat it is will be hard too o.0;....

I dont even know if I'll be able to find instructions! 0.0;


Second down on the left, the top most hat.... Thats the closest I've found so far, but the brim isnt right....

I'm totally in love with the pattern sketches though and am now thinking about buying a few of the patterns happy.gif
Wow, those are really cool outfits.

Women get all the good clothes. *pout*
Aw! Men have cool cloths too! Tux's and tux's with tails and well.... if you wanna get into all the crazy costuming stuff then tongue.gif Men can have some pretty unique outfits!
I went to see *shudder* Pride and Prejudice with Sues today. I really liked the long coat Mr Darcy was wearing. I think it's called a 'great coat'. Basically it's long and flappy. I made one a bit like it many years ago, but it would be nice to have one that looked a bit more 'period', mine is made of thick wool and a cool black shiny material that I bought in the US and I've never seen in the UK.
What would this black shiney stuff be?....

If you search online for either Great Coat patterns or 1800's patterns or something along thoes lines you'll get alot of results for patterns tongue.gif

The sad thing about anything non-renaissance is that no one has tutorials on pattern drafting out there so you end up being stuck having to either buy a pattern or go out on a whim....
It's okay, I don't have the time to make another coat at the moment. Also, the cost of decent material is so much that if I was going to spend that much I might as well get a sewing shop to assemble it for me!

I've no idea what the black material is. It doesn't stretch, it's an artificial fibre of some sort, but otherwise I haven't a clue.
I've no idea what artificial fiber non stretchy material wouldnt be available anywhere else....

I hope this doesnt start to bug me, heh. Anyhow, I dont think I knew you sewed, Mata....

.... Learn something new every day....
Cath Sparrow
QUOTE (Mata @ Sep 16 2005, 12:55 AM)
It's okay, I don't have the time to make another coat at the moment. Also, the cost of decent material is so much that if I was going to spend that much I might as well get a sewing shop to assemble it for me!


Tell me about it *muttermutter* I really should finish that frock coat and alter the pattern so I can make it again. Coat are damn expensive if you you want to make them properly. The only reason I've got the fabric to make the frock coat twice is because they let me make one in work as pattern cutting practice.
Ou ou, whats your work?

BTW: Dad doesnt like the hat which means I need to find something different =(
depressed lonely crazy person
Why doesn't he like it?
And why should that equate to your finding something different?
It's not as if you plan to go out wearing nothing but glad wrap! Is it?
tongue.gif Because he'd be paying for it
Cath Sparrow
In theory I'm a Pattern Cutter (clothing patterns for the high street) in practice at the moment I'm unemployed and desperatly trying to get a new job because I'm slowly going nuts. *muttersabouttheevilincarnatethatisMarksandSpencers*

But the good thing about the job is if you can pattern a modern jacket you can transfer the skills to a historic jacket (which tend to interest me a hell of alot more but the pay is cr*p and unfortunatly I cant afford at the moment to have a scruples)
I'd love to have your skills of an artist!

Sadly I tend to work with pre-made patterns for anything except renaissance clothing (cuz I can find tutorials on that)
So I made a new set of wings using the idea I wanted to do at first tongue.gif

They're nice and simple, very very tiny. The wing span is only 18 inches (thats about an inch longer than my shoulders....) And nice and pixi ish and light!!

Now I need more red costumes.... dry.gif

Thats where the pictures are at.... I'm wayyy too tired and lazy and hungry to make the lil image button work right now.... it hates me mad.gif

Hope you like ^^
Those are really pretty. How long did they take to make?
Yease, really, really pretty smile.gif
I'm thinking around 4 hours. The frame is made with wire quadrupled up and twisted with a electric drill (I had fun.... powertools, wee!) So that took a lil bit to do, and then it took me a week to acctually figure out how I wanted the frame to look. And last night I was just kinda bored and started working on them and it took about an hour-1 1/2 hours per wing....

But I was also on AIM and Gtalk at the same time so I guess that factors in alot of extra time!!

The lil crystals that're in there are Swarovski (sp?) I think thats awesome happy.gif
depressed lonely crazy person
If it's your custume why aren't you paying for it and wouldn't that be easier and you'd get what YOU want rather than mooching off somone else and working hard on something you don't really want anyway?
DLCP: what are you on about? K!77y enjoys making the constumes.

Why not pay for it? Why pay for it when you can have the fun of making it, and end up with something that no-one else in the world has?

Wouldn't it be easier to pay for a costume? Firstly, that's only easier if you can afford it, secondly you then don't have the fun of making it, and lastly you then miss out on the pride of having something cool and knowing that you made it.

Mooching off someone else? You've lost me there. Do you mean the first set of wings that I designed? That's hardly mooching, she didn't ask me to draw them, and she's been a friend of mine for many years so there was no 'mooching' involved... If that's what you're referring to, although I'm not sure that it is.

Something she doesn't really want? She seems happy that she's made them, and it sounds like she had fun. What gives you the impression that she doesn't want them?

Yep, you've completely lost me on that post DLCP, are you talking about something else or have you misread this thread?
depressed lonely crazy person
I know she intends to make her costume by why not pay for it herself and get exactly what she wants rather than getting money of her dad and having him dictate what she can and can't have when she is still the one making and wearing the thing?

I like boths set of wings the ones you inspired and the wiry ones, Even if you made the design she still figured out how to make that real so no it's not mooching in any way.

I know how cool it is to make your own stuff but also know that it can be frustrating and that as such you can get discoraged if you don't love what you're doing and it would be even worse if you have the determination to keep going and at the end of much work have something you only had as a second choice anyway.

Mata are you somehow in on this crap headgame people are playing on me of late because if thats so it is not funny and I'm hardly learning anything it's not like the topics are even linked so what is the point of it?
DLCP, Mata isnt trying to mess with your head. Your previous post was very unclear as to what you were trying to say and Mata was just trying to clarify. I dont know why you think he'd be playing mind games with you.

Anyhow, it would be alot harder to acctually buy a costume because I _wouldnt_ get what I want and it would still be my dad paying for it seeing as I dont have a job.

The hat I was asking about is for my homecoming outfit and the only reason I'm not getting it even though I really like it is because its _homecoming_ and I want my dad to like what I wear. If it was everyday clothes or even something for renfest I really wouldnt care, I'd get it somehow anyway tongue.gif

Most of the stuff I make is variations on something I see, so its never exactly what I see. It has my own personal touches to it, and I put time and effort and alot of _thought_ into what I make and in the end I'm usually very proud of it. Yeah, sometimes its frustrating and sometimes I get very discouraged by either my own lack of patience or someone else's actions/comments, but its still something I love to do and I would never substitute buying something in place for making it.

Hope thats cleared up.... unsure.gif
DLCP, no, there's no head-trip intended, and no 'targetting', but I had noticed that I've been pinking up on your posts a fair bit over the past few days. It's two things really, firstly I think you're joining in with the topics that I'm most interested in, so I see I lot of what you write, but the main thing is that your posts have been very unspecific so I've not been able to understand what point you are making. This may be due to the length of your posts often being only a few words or a couple of lines at most, leaving very little context for the reader to understand your meaning, not helped that sometimes your messages are coming a bit out of the blue, such as the one in this thread.

'If it's your custume why aren't you paying for it and wouldn't that be easier and you'd get what YOU want rather than mooching off somone else and working hard on something you don't really want anyway?'

In this post it wasn't at all clear what you were trying to say. It sounded like you were saying 'Why don't you just buy a costume because you're not happy with the ones you make', which obviously seemed very out of place in the thread. Understandably I had no idea why you were saying this. I'm still not sure what you meant by the 'don't really want anyway' bit at the end!

If you had written 'why don't you pay for the materials you want yourself instead of getting your dad to buy it for you' that would have been a lot clearer. I think the simple answer there really is that K!77y is a young teenager who doesn't have a job and whose parents are prepared to support her hobbies but don't want to overindulge her by catering to her every whim. She works hard at school, gets good grades, and has a good relationship with her family. She's really very lucky in that because not everyone gets that kind of support. Her parents would probably rather help her out by getting her the things she would like, within reasonable limits, than take her time away from school at the moment. In a year or two this will probably change, but for the moment that's her family set-up.

As with pretty much every bit of confusion on this site, it all comes down to the way that people use language. 'Mooching' has strong negative connotations, implying the belief that the behaviour is unjustifiable from your moral viewpoint, but the behaviour you appeared to be describing didn't fit with the topic. When you said 'someone else' it made things even less clear; were you talking about the design I made, her father, the flying spaghetti monster? I had no idea, and there weren't any clues in the message. Have a look at your other posts I've commented on and try to read them from an external perspective. Where they lack information their intention is unclear. I've tried to understand them and respond to what I think you're saying, but if I misread one post then that probably my mistake, if I have trouble understanding many posts then it suggests that you need to work on your clarity.

The weird thing is, that this only seems to have happened with your posts over the past few days, maybe a week. Is there something troubling you that's happened in that time that's occupying your thoughts?

Perhaps there's something I should say too: when I ask people to clarify their posts, or inquire for more details about intention/subjects I'm not doing it to try and pick on anyone, I just want to be sure that I understand people correctly. I also hope that people can see where they have been vague of mis-communicated so that they can try and write in a more clear fashion in future.

We all learn things all the time. I know so much more about grammar and structuring arguments now than I did even a couple of years ago. This learning process is ongoing, but we cannot learn if no-one ever tells us when the things we've written don't make sense.
depressed lonely crazy person
I don't see any change in my posts. Yeah I have stuff going on at the moment so do a lot of people it doesn't affect me any more than it does them. What with people still hardly talking to me and being abused when I have an opinion I don't see any change in peoples reactions to me.

I don't see why your parents should be able to dictate what you make either they can hand you money and let you make what you want or you should use your allowance and do axactly what you want.
Your father doesn't like the hat....well thats too bad obviously "home coming" (whatever that is) is important, you should get what you want (within reason) for said event you shouldn't have to make a second choice without a good reason for it.
Posting while in the middle of stuff affects all of us. I know I haven't been posting much lately because I've been moving house from one apartment to another. And your posts have been a bit more distant as of late, hun. I can usually make out what you're saying, but that's probably because our minds run on similar paths. Not picking or anything, just saying.

I'd talk to you more if I were on more, but I'm not on much right now with all the moving stuff.... Some sage advice from me: the more you pay attention to people not talking to you the more it seems like they don't. Just relax and don't expect every post you make to illicit a conversation. Once you pay less attention to people responding the more they do. At least, it seems that way blink.gif
Fey's right. There are a few people on here that I've known for years before I started the fourms and so I'm more likely to talk to them, but other than that I just join in and reply to posts that I find interesting. I also often reply when I don't understand what a person means. DLCP, your posts have been a bit obtuse lately. There's no offence intended in that, it's just that I've had trouble understanding what you mean.

As for being 'abused' when you have an opinion, I think you might need to revise what you consider as abuse! This is something I've found a few times on here before: because I tend to explain my views as fully as I can my posts are often quite long. This is only because I want to make sure that people understand my reasoning, not not out of desire to assign a value judgement to anyone else's opinion. I often disagree with people in threads about religion, and post long messages about my views and how they are different to those of others in the thread. This doesn't mean that those people are necessarily wrong, or that I think less of those people for holding their views, only that I want to fully explain my thoughts so that people can understand what I'm saying and make their own mind up.

Back slightly more onto topic, I think the reason that parent's should be allowed to dictate things for their children is precisely because they are the parents. When a person clothes you, feeds you, and does many other things that provide for you then they deserve some respect. They are also older and, while this doesn't always correspond with wisdom, have more experience of the world so may have a better perspective on some things.

If a parent would strongly rather that their child doesn't do something then it is up to that person to assess whether the upset caused to the parent by defiance would be greater than the value of independent action. Sometimes it will be, for example a person might really want to get their ears pierced and the parent objects, in that case the demonstration of independence might be worth the trouble that it causes; however, if a child wants to get a big tattoo and a parent considers this unwise it might be worth waiting a few years until such permanent actions can be done without immediate parental knowledge (equally, waiting a while may provide perspective and change the child's mind).

Parent-child relationships are about give and take I think. K!77y's parents, from the impression that I've gained through her, seem very supportive of her in many ways so it's only fair that if they make a request that she takes it seriously. She may decide that she wants to do something against their wishes but she has enough respect for them to take their opinions and feelings seriously. I think the feelings of parents are often forgotten. It's easy to forget that they are people just like us, they get upset when they're trying to do the right thing and are misunderstood, or when people shout at them. This doesn't mean that they're always right, because like us they will be flawed in some ways (sometimes in many ways), but it does mean that we need to think about their feelings when we make decisions. As with many things, it's about respect.

Sometimes parents are not good people and have continually made bad decisions; personally I think that it takes great strength from a child to understand the difficulties that their parents face as individuals and to overcome the lack of good parenting to find a way to connect with their family. I think it's a real sign of being an adult that you can see and understand the flaws as well as the strengths of those that have raised you, but this is getting a bit off the topic of hats!

Essentially, if K!77y's dad would rather that she didn't wear the hat, and it's not of life-changing importance to her, then I think that she shouldn't wear it. It's a nice thing to do for him, and parents need their children to be nice to them sometimes!
Hats! Sorry biggrin.gif
I am very interested in hats and millinery (sp?) and would actualy take it as my life long career if I could find a uni course that was just for hat making! They aren't very difficult to make- Just draw out the final desired shape, measure your head a bit (in almost every direction you could imagine biggrin.gif) and shape the wire to what you want it to look like. It is quite like sculpting, and from you beautiful wings you made, it seems that you can work well with wire.

After you have made the frame, just cover it in fabric.
It's that simple! (she says, who almost got chicken wire embedded in her hand once whilst trying to make a hat... dry.gif )

About your greatcoat Mata- I have a fantastic book which has drawings of costume from the 1600-1900 and snippets of mini-patterns, including one of a greatcoat. If I ever get round to getting the scanner set up properly, I'll scan some of the pages as it is a great resource- especially to my mum who, until recently, makes costumes for a local theatre group.
Daria, for some reason I dont think it'll be as easy as you make it sound....

I dont know though.

I reaaallyyy dont feel like trying it out right now though. Especially since I dont have wire suitable for holding up hat-y-ness. =(

As for that costume book you were talking about though, Title and Author? Pleaaaseee?
Cath Sparrow
The new wings are really cute. You'll have to excuse me but I always do this (add to peoples ideas) how about adding some slightly smaller ones in the same shape so they kind of look like dragon fly wings?
Shall have to dig it out.. I think it is on holiday in the garage during redecoration...

I think it was printed in the '50's. Have no clue of title or author, so I'll have to tell you when I can find it...
Daria- Well whenever you find it just PM me or summin tongue.gif Maybe I can find a copy on e-bay....

Cath- Definatley doing that soon. Making my mum a pair of wings.... thats kind of how she wants them.

Also to Cath tongue.gif I made my first peice of chainmail (no pictures though.... lazy me) its a european 4 in 1.... neclace.... thing.... looks nifty.

Also if you follow the lil linky theres an awesome picture of me looking stoned....

I was tired unsure.gif Kinda just stumbled over there and fell down (purposefully. The ground looked comfy, honest!) and I had a couple people come by and take pictures.... one guy wrote on a peice of paper I was holding "are you dead?" lol....
Cath Sparrow
Cool. The 4 in 1 mail a good one to start with. Show us a pic when you get the chance.
In that picture of you on the ground, Why is there a playing card in your top? ..... Just wondering....
I got that question all day! No one understands =(
Every pirate has to have a card....
Basically you just draw one from the deck, if someone already has it you go again. I dont know where it came from but its just a thing....


Also, I do believe you can see the chainmail I made wrapped around my wrist....
Not that its a very good picture of it, but its there
A kind of random idea for you: Why not try and make a pair of wings using chain mail?

You're in my head 0.0;;;; Get out!!!

No, no. Its alright. You can stay.... Company is goooodd....


I was thinking about that, just doing the top part of the frame and attatching the chain mail to it.... it'd wobble in the wind! Er.... not quite, but with my body.... The problem is, where do I find wire strong enough to hold up chain mail?

And.... is aluminum lighter than titanium? (not that I could afford titanium....) because obviously steel wouldnt be a good idea....
QUOTE (K!77y @ Sep 30 2005, 08:43 PM)

You're in my head 0.0;;;; Get out!!!


Where do you think I got this user name from? tongue.gif

I'm going to take a guess and say that aluminum in lighter than titanium. The thickest wire I've ever seen (I don't know it it's the strongest or not) is copper wire.
What's the lightest possible metal that you can make chainmail out of?
Titanium, as far as I know, is the lightest. Unless its aluminum. Copper is the worst wire to try and make a frame for wings out of because not only is it heavy, its very very pliable.

Trust me.... I've tried =(

It is good for conducting electricity though!
I don't think that your parents would be exactly overjoyed if you made a pair of electrical wings! tongue.gif .... That would be kind of fun, though. Except for the possibly getting fried part...

Another idea that I really don't if it'll work or not: Would it be possible to make the top frame out of wood? Depending on the type of wood you use, it can be both strong and lightweight. Also, that might give it a cool medivil look.
Welding wire (copper plated steel) it quite strong- it does bend, but not lots, and it would also depend on thickness.
You could use copper pipe! It could sort of go like this (please excuse the crappy drawing biggrin.gif)

You get the jist... Perhaps biggrin.gif
Hehe!! I love the drawing tongue.gif It makes me smile.

I was thinking about copper pipe too but that gets like crazy heavy, plus, attatching tiny little chains to it would be a pain in the arse. I've never really thought of wood before.... But I can imagine being frustrated trying to get it to curve into the shape I want it =(

Welding wire seems like a good idea, I was also thinking about just chainmail wire (the stuff you use to acctually make the chains) Cuz I'd _think_ it would be nice and sturdy, but I acctually havent gotten my hands on it yet so I'm not quite sure....
I'm going to have to ask my mom on this, but she used to be able to bend the thick vines that grew around our house into this really nice looking curve without breaking it.

If you still haven't gotten your hands on any of the wire you use to make the chainmail, then how have you been making it?

How heavy would these wings be when you finished them?
Cath Sparrow
You use ready made rings such as jump rings (ring used in jewellery making for pendants and fasternings)
QUOTE (K!77y @ Oct 1 2005, 11:45 PM)
Hehe!! I love the drawing tongue.gif It makes me smile.

Thankyou biggrin.gif

Vines sound like a cool idea, especialy the twisty knarly ones.

Have you thought of using willow? You can twist them, shape them, any way you want them (I will stop singing now smile.gif) by soaking them in water over night, and they become pretty pliable. When they dry, they go hard again which means you have yourself a pair of sturdy wings to hang your chainmail from...
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