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michael1384
Well, I am very lucky to have a wonderfull group of 6 friends. One of them used to be friends with a bully. I am fine with that, so long as he realises now that he is a horrible person that I don't like and he stops being his friend at this point due to recognising that he is not a good person to be a friend. But now, another friend, (we will call him john in this thread as he might not be happy about me using his name) is saying that the best way to combat bullys is to change your image. I think it is to ignore them.(which is pretty hard to do considering they are actually hurting you.) Three weeks or so after he said that, him and the friend who is friends with the bully,(who we will cal jack.) are suddenly saying that they (the bullies) are not as bad as I think they are.(codswallop!) The other day I was on the field with them and the bullies came up and asked me if I had found my mobile phone yet. I said yes and he pushed me and I fell over another person who was on thier hands and knees. They still, "arn't as bad as I think they are." What should I do?

sad.gif sad.gif sad.gif mad.gif blink.gif dry.gif
Izzy
^ My friends and I do that! It's really not "bullying" it's a joke. Oh, and it's called The Tabletop where I live. If you want to avoid it, just make sure there's no one behind you.
vicrawr
QUOTE (devils_daughter @ Apr 8 2006, 10:49 AM)
^ My friends and I do that! It's really not "bullying" it's a joke. Oh, and it's called The Tabletop where I live. If you want to avoid it, just make sure there's no one behind you.
*


I hate to say it, but your jokes suck.

In my opinion, the best way to combat bullies is to punch them in the throat, kick them in the man-poon, and then run like the dickens.
michael1384
QUOTE (devils_daughter @ Apr 8 2006, 03:49 PM)
^ My friends and I do that! It's really not "bullying" it's a joke. Oh, and it's called The Tabletop where I live. If you want to avoid it, just make sure there's no one behind you.
*


dry.gif I think you've failed to understand. They point and laugh. They discriminate about my hair colour. They kick me on the ankle. They call me gay, they pull my trousers down in PE. They are the perfect example of neanderthall man introduced into todays scociety. It might be a joke where you come from, but this is a very non-violent school. The people you do it to are probably very upset afterwards. Especially if they are having a bad day. In thier oppinions you might be regarded as a bully.
Wytukaze
Hmm, we used to do that pushing thing back when I was in middle school. The main point here is that when we did it, it was a game, like tig (or tag, or whatever you want to call it). If someone wanted to stop having to be paranoid for a while, it was allowed. I think the main point here is that it is bullying, or at least "not nice", if the other person doesn't want to do it.
Mata
Bullies get their kicks from the reactions of others. They want power, and unfortunately the only people who can give them power is us.

There are two methods that have proven effective against bullies in the past.

1. Lack of expected reaction. They expect you to be angry or upset. If you can keep calm, or even ridcule them without appearing angry (act like you are so utterly superior to them that you can't be bothered to engage with their childishness).

That can be tricky, because the point of bullying is that they are trying to control you and your reactions, and they have had practise at it. When you start changing the rules of the game then they lose that power.

There is a second method, one that is a bit more risky but that can prove very effective.

2. Taking it onto their home ground.

When I was at school there was a weedy little kid who liked to bully others. After dredging through my mind I've pulled up his name: Paul Seymour. He thought he was a home boy, and was famous for his nonsense insult of 'your mum'. No-one was quite sure what this meant. He had a habit of going up behind weaker kids in the locker rooms and hitting them as hard as he could with a hymn book around the back of the head. It was utter cowardice. The books were about three or four hundred pages thick and hard-bound, so didn't really hurt, but as with most bullying it was the power and humiliation that counted.

One day, after this had been going on to myself and others for around a year or more (I really don't remember very clearly) I was pissed off. It was the time in my life when I'd worked out that I needed to change and to not let other people control me. He had come into the locker room, sneaked up on me from behind as usual, and hit me around the head before laughing and running away. I got my own hymn book and walked into his classroom. It was the start of the day, no teachers were in, but the classroom was full. I calmly walked up behind him and smacked him hard around the back of the head before then walking out again and went off to my classes for the day.

It's not big, and it's not clever to retaliate. I know this, but somehow I have no regrets at all. No damage was done: I knew full well that they didn't hurt after having experienced it from the other end numerous times, but he experienced what it was like to lose power. I heard, many years later, that the whole class remembers me doing that and that he had burst out crying straight afterwards. His behaviour was still aggravating after that, but he never hit me over the head again, and his bullying stopped being so overt.

It was a risky thing to do, and perhaps a bit stupid, but it was effective in turning the tables publically. I would suggest that there is safety in numbers (as bullies know) so some form of confrontation with a group of similarly bullied people might be effective. By 'confrontation' I don't mean that you should start a fight, instead that you should ask them to stop certain types of behaviour. Tricky, I know, but it might work.

--

I guess the key here is a phrase 'just a bully'. Bullies have two things in common with each-other: they want power, and they are most likely in denial of their status as a bully. Inside, everyone always thinks that they are a good person, acting for the best or without any choice, and this is true from the medieval crusaders to modern day dictators. Sometimes they are right, but sometimes they are not. The important thing is to appeal to the weakness of a bully, their own self-image. They believe they are just playing with people and are in denial of the hurt and harm that they cause, 'I only pushed them over', 'they're only words', 'I didn't really mean it', 'we're only having a laugh', etc. If you can shatter that impression that the bully has of themself, that they're really a good person having a harmless bit of fun, then you're a lot closer to changing their ways.

As with anything that is said on these forums, use your own judgement. Please do not do anything that puts you or others at serious risk (crossing the road every day is a risk, but you know what I mean). Use common sense, but above all be strong and confident in yourself. When you have inner-confidence then you change the way people act around you. There is a degree of changing yourself here, but it is a change that makes you more in control of your life and more independent. Through doing this you can achieve the means to be yourself in a wider range of ways than you are now, to be even more eccentric if you wish and to do this without being a target for bullying.

Sadly, there are always bullies around in life, and they will be there in offices and workplaces when you're older. Learn to be strong. Learn the ways to deal with people who want to control you and you will have changed your own life and those around you for the better.
bryden42
sorry Devils _daughter but Bullying like any other kind of discrimination is determined from the recipients point of view, If the act perpetrated is considered unwanted, rude or abusive then that is what it is, on these grounds the attention you are recieving michael is Bullying.

The official party line is that Reporting the perpetrators to the appropriate authority figure is the way to go, this could be your parents who should take it further for you or you could go to a teacher yourself who will have to treat it seriously and take it further. In my experience, and this is only my experience, this does not work particularly well and only drives the problem underground the bullying will become more covert or psychological, The bullies will resent the "interference" of the authority figures and you may well lose some freedoms such as breaktimes whilst the teachers try to keep you away from the bullies.

My personal answer to bullying was to fight back. I got hurt doing it, and i almost got suspended from school, I was lucky enough to have the backing of my Mum who ensured that I did not get suspended. If you choose this option make sure that you are ready to accept these conditions, Do not start the fight but make sure that there is a real physical threat to yourself and defend yourself from it. By defend I mean defend aggressively, focus on one person (the ring leader) and make sure that they get hurt as much as you,

Bullies are bullies because they are asserting auttority over those that they see as weaker and easy to manipulate, Prove that you are not weak and that manipulating you will not be easy and will cause them real pain and the bullying will stop.

Again I cannot stress enough that this advice is based on my own experience and some accounts that I have heard from others, I have heard accounts that the official route works. there are prices to pay either way. It's your choice. I hope this helps and sincerely hope that it stops for you soon.
Izzy
Okay when me and my friend do The Tabletop (the thing when you push a kid back against another kid on their hands and knees) we usually do it to people we kid around with alot. I don't bully people. My friends don't bully people. I've been Tabletopped by my friends a good amount of time, and I really don't care. It's a good laugh. You get over it.

Michael, the kid that pulled down your pants should get suspended from school. At my school, there is a kid named Morgan who pulled down this other kids pants, and he got suspended.Punch the Bully in the face, or kick him in the nuts. Stand your ground and don't run. If you tell a teacher, or cry about it, he'll call you a cry baby or tattle tale. If he calls you a name, swear back. If you get a bloody nose, give him a bloody nose. If he calls you gay, say something like "Am I really? At least I didn't do my Dad last nite like you".
Rykan
QUOTE (IrishGuy @ Apr 8 2006, 05:48 PM)
In my opinion, the best way to combat bullies is to punch them in the throat, kick them in the man-poon, and then run like the dickens.
*


Haham man-poon, haven't heard it called that before biggrin.gif

QUOTE (michael1384 @ Apr 8 2006, 06:01 PM)
dry.gif I think you've failed to understand. They point and laugh. They discriminate about my hair colour. They kick me on the ankle. They call me gay, they pull my trousers down in PE. They are the perfect example of neanderthall man introduced into todays scociety. It might be a joke where you come from, but this is a very non-violent school. The people you do it to are probably very upset afterwards. Especially if they are having a bad day. In thier oppinions you might be regarded as a bully.
*


They sound like the kind of people you don't want to have anything to do with. They don't sound like friends at all and quite frankly, I would tell them to go funk themselves.

I was bullied for most of my life, until I was about 14, maybe 15. I just got so tired of it I eventually just went up asked "Why are you doing this to me?". I tried talking rationally. Total confusion tongue.gif It was a while ago now, so my memory isn't the best, but I do remember the bullying stopped after that.
I feel like I'm a stronger person now, and that if some one tried to push me around again I would tell them where to go shove it, but it hasn't been put to the test yet ^^'

I hope everything turns out ok for you Michael. I don't know if straight out talking rationally to them would work, but maybe it's worth a go? It might throw them off guard for a bit anyway!
Righteous
First of all, Michael, tell your "friend" who told you to change your style that your buddy Ri says to go choke on something.

Well, the first bully I encountered was throwing sand at my little brother when I was in the first grade. I gave the little bitch a spinning heal kick to the face.

When I was in the fourth grade, I started tearing the Hell out of some kid's face during recess because he gave me Hell one to many times.

In the fifth grade, this one bully laughed at me at a bad time on a very bad day. I was the first kid at Audubon Elementary to get suspender for fighting (though it looked more like a fat kid beating the crap out of a goofy red-haired kid).

If not for my folks, I don't know where I would have ended up during my middle school career. I was made fun of A LOT and I never took it. from anyone, student or teacher (but that's another story...).

Looking back, I didn't handle things the best in elementary and middle school. In the ninth grade, I started at a new high school where fighting was dealt with harshly. I had to learn to deal with their crap in a better manner. Most notably, after verbally ripping these bully-types a new ass hole, one of them came at me after class. All I really could do (and what I had been doing off and on since my first year) was shove him off and shout out as loud as I could, "What the F*CK, man?! The F*CK'S your problem?!" I'd classify this a s something Mata was talking about.

Now, all that said, if the situation necessitates, violence may be used. One of my brother's boys once got belted in the back of the head by some dude with a chip on his shoulder. My brother's friend had to defend himself until a teacher stepped in. I've been on the that end on more that one occasion.

Often, bullies hide behind authority because, in truth, cowards. The kid from the fourth grade I once saw at a comic book store. He saw me and had a look of cowardace in his face. I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy it. Years later, this one dude gave me Hell at this one job I had, hiding behind the manager. After I quit, he came up to my weekend job at this club as the door guy (before I was promoted to lighting guy). Apparently it had become clear to him that if I wanted to, I could tear him in half. He was really, really nice to me.

Aside from all of my history, sit down and talk to your friends. Tell them you don't appreciate what's going on. Make sure you let them know how serious about it you are. If nothing else, tell them to tell their boys to leave you the Hell alone.

Also, changing your style will not keep the bullies away. It might actually perpetuate the situation. If that doesn't work, you may need to prepare for war. If it gets really bad, learn some martial arts. I learned folk wresting in the tenth grade and it helped a lot. Stay cool. Stay you and talk to your friends. Let us know how it works out, man.
Calantyr
Ok I'm going to do some waffling here but I hope it can help you in your situation.

At various times in my life I have both been a bully and been the victim of bullying.

In my first primary school I did it because I was an idiot. I didn't see that what I was doing was wrong. It made me feel powerful. I had my own little tribe of delinquents that would follow me around and we would terrorise people. I forget how many times I was disciplined before my parents took me out of that pit and put me into a Church of England School...

As I recall we didn't do it because we hated anyone... it was just boredom and we got away with it. Back then I had no idea what empathy was. Some would say I still don't... If someone stood up to us we'd respect it and get our jollies somewhere else. I'm bloody glad I finally matured. I'd hate to think how I could have ended up as...

In my second primary school/secondary school it was the other way around. It was all rather unfamiliar to me. New faces, new rules, and with power groups already established. I began to get more introverted. By the time I was in secondary school I was pretty damned shy and ended up getting teased a lot. Being very overweight didn't help much either...

This only changed through two things, and judging by others replies maybe it's the norm.

One: Don't show that it gets to you. Remain cool. Aloof. Almost pity them. If they can't get a rise out of you then there is less sport. Also it can freak people out. I've had gangs try to mug me but decided against it because they thought I'd be a total headcase...
And don't cringe away from them. They can smell fear! ohmy.gif

Two: Don't be afraid to rough some people up if they go too far. Showing that you have claws yourself can do wonders. Is putting up with years of taunting easier to deal with than a week of bruises? Violence really should be the last resort, but cracking someone in the jaw is bloody good for self-esteem if nothing else. However don't fight fair. If you fight fair you loose. wink.gif

Yes, these two methods would seem to contradict themselves, but for a good reason. They can both backfire. Bullies are animals, you can never be too sure how they will react.

Get help from your friends, you have them for a reason afterall. wink.gif Just don't use them as a crutch when the faeces hits the fan.

Good luck, and don't let them get you down.
elphaba2
Those kids sound really disgusting, Micheal. I'm sorry to hear about their crap.

I'm afraid I don't have much advice on how to combat them though--I am the queen of the mumbled "F**k off" and the ensuing dash through a crowded hallway. For a long time in the past years (not sure if you have peeked in the "today I'm wearing" thread, but I dress like a space-age drag queen crazy person half the time) I got a lot of open hostility from people I'd barely met. It's very strange, very alien to me. I typically avoided people who were cruel, occasionally dug in my brain for something withering to say, and, in the end, invested in a good pair of headphones. Not a great reaction. But! miraculously, I've not gotten anything since about freshman year.

I've found that it's good to have a nice support base. Start being generally friendly and open to new people--if word gets around that you're a nice guy with lots of friends (the "lots of friends" part is typically more important then the nice, but you never know with these folks) someone might become less willing to pull your trousers down. Think about who in your school is not targeted by these buffoons and figure out why. Are they smart? Talented? Blessed with lasers that shoot out of their eyes? Then you can work from there.
bryden42
how is it going michael? any progress made?
michael1384
QUOTE
  how is it going michael? any progress made?

Its the easter holidays so no. And its not really the bullying that does it, it's the fact that two of my friends think that they're not as bad as I think they are, I mean, I know it's hard to give up a friend that you had in primary school, but come on, are they blind???
Also, this friend changing image stuff is begining to show. On the bus he threw my phone at a new kid who was being silly and didn't regret it. I predict and invitation from his parents.

Oh, and thank you all for caring so much, you are all brilliant.
trunks_girl26
QUOTE (michael1384 @ Apr 12 2006, 03:33 PM)
And its not really the bullying that does it, it's the fact that two of my friends think that they're not as bad as I think they are, I mean, I know it's hard to give up a friend that you had in primary school, but come on, are they blind???
*


I don't quite agree with that bit. In my experience people tend to show different sides of themselves, depending on the people they're interacting with. For instance, one of my closest friends is considered to be rather caustic and sarcastic by others, but he's gentle and honest around me. Those friends of yours may genuinely know he can be a good guy (if only around them), and an ass around others.

However, this in no way excuses what this bully is doing. Being a pacifist at heart, I'd reccomend talking to these friends of yours to see if they can get him to lay off. As stated before, giving the bully the opposite reaction of what he wants also helps to throw him off balance.
Righteous
Though I understand where Trunks_Girl is coming from, also being a pacifist in nature, I say that there will probably come a time when talking to your boys about it won't work (though I'm hope I'm wrong). At the very least, you may need to become "standoffish," which may end up just being exchanges of words. Now, this does not mean just letting it build up until it reaches the boiling point (good GOD no!). This will mean, however, calmly (and aggressively) approaching them, one of my favorite lines being, "Bitch, the f*ck's your problem?" Have the attitude of, "Uh-uh. This ain't happening." This also applies to talking to your friends, but I figure it's best for you to be a bit more diplomatic than I am. Remember that bullies are dogs and will lean one of two ways: having their noses rubbed in their own shit or being smacked on the snout. Stick with the previous for now.
bryden42
maybe you should have a chat with your "friend" point out that their behaviour is causing you concern. If that doesn't work distance yourself from them and hope this makes the point. If it does and your friend stops the behaviour then good, all is as it should be, if it doesn't then distancing yourself from them is probably what you need to do anyway. I know it sounds harsh but sorounding yourself with the ignorant and arrogant and aggressive is a sure fire way to get yourself into trouble, almost by proxy.
elphaba2
QUOTE (Righteous @ Apr 12 2006, 05:41 PM)
Though I understand where Trunks_Girl is coming from, also being a pacifist in nature....
*

QUOTE (Righteous @ Apr 12 2006, 05:41 PM)
one of my favorite lines being, "Bitch, the f*ck's your problem?"
*

That really made me giggle. Not to diss you, Righteous, but...I think you should maybe check up on the whole "I'm a pacifist" thing.

Micheal, I'm not sure there's much you can do to stop your friend's changing his image. Since it sounds like you've already brought it up once or twice, he's already sensitive to the idea that you want him to change (even if it's changing back) But go with your gut, keep us updated once Monday comes around.
michael1384
QUOTE (elphaba2 @ Apr 13 2006, 02:19 AM)
Micheal, I'm not sure there's much you can do to stop your friend's changing his image. Since it sounds like you've already brought it up once or twice, he's already sensitive to the idea that you want him to change (even if it's changing back) But go with your gut, keep us updated once Monday comes around.
*


I go back on tuesday, I'll update you then
monkey_called_narth
dude, after years of being bullied ive found the best way to stop them is to fight back. if there bigger then you, aim for the groin. im a fairly peacefull person, but bully them back! next time one of them walks by you stick your foot out and trip the bastard. if he asks why say "you thought it was funny when you did it to me".
michael1384
QUOTE (monkey_called_narth @ Apr 13 2006, 04:39 PM)
dude, after years of being bullied ive found the best way to stop them is to fight back. if there bigger then you, aim for the groin. im a fairly peacefull person, but bully them back! next time one of them walks by you stick your foot out and trip the bastard. if he asks why say "you thought it was funny when you did it to me".
*


There are a few risks with that. The first one is that they are the sort of people who would get up and punch you in the face. The second one is they know I don't like getting into trouble. They will tell and I will get a detention(something I don't really like.). Oh! And somebody got expelled for kicking someone.
Izzy
If you're gonna fight this dude, shin gaurds and other protection might help. If you're on a soccer team or something use the shin guards from there, if not I'm sur eoyu can buy some somewhere. Remeber to fight dirty, just try to avoid using anything except your hands and feet (or other body parts) cause if something bad happens to him you could get charged for attempted murder.

The thing about the kid who got expelled, if you get in trouble you can tell your principle that you were protecting yourself, and ask him/her to go through your file to prove you've never done anything bad before (if you have, say something else).

The thing with the detention, if you get it you get it. Can't change that. You may not like it, but it's not that bad. Just go into the assigned classroom, give the teacher the note about why you're there, and sit back,relex, don't make loud noises, and enjoy a good book.
Righteous
I say I'm a pacifist by nature because at heart save bitching and complaining, I'm normally one to try to settle things nice and peacefully. I had to train myself to be able to stand up against people in certain situations, be it with my fists or mouth. I also used to be one to let anything slide (for the sake of not rocking the boat), but now, regardless of the consequences, I'll stand up for myself and others if need be. Now, this doesn't mean that I encourage violence. God no. If things can be settled peacefully, by all means, but one must be prepared in case it doesn't work.
michael1384
This week was a bit of a bugger. I asked the one that is friends with him to ask him to stop. But he did exactly what I asked him not to do. He said "Michael wants you to stop." Now they know I don't like it and they're going to carry on. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!
Ign355
of all the comment that have gone on and actual life experiences i have had with bullies none of thoes are the most effective way wtih dealing with bullies... the best thing to do is leave them alone dont talk to them or even you friends that are friends with them, that just makes stuff worse because u tell stuff to your freinds and then they go and tell the bullie, then the bullie turns around and uses it against you. although what im about to say next is totally contradictory to what i just said im gonna say it anyways. if you would not mind getting in trouble, i would suggest like finding their locker and just splash a bunch oh water into it to screw up the items that are in it, or u could do what other people are saying and "bring the fight to them" and fight them right where they are, and if you just use your own force(no wepons or items to hit him with) you can only get a detention at max, just try not to break any bones, a hand or foot is ok, but nothing major like ribs, because your parents would then have to pay the doctor bill for the bullie. But anyways enough with that, im only just saying that to give u an idea... the best thing u could do it not talk to the bullie or your friends that are friends with the bullie
Izzy
With what Leach^ just said, a few ideas came to mind. This is when the TV show punk'd comes in handy. Not only can you throw water in their lockers, you can rip up the dudes homework, pour milk onto his lunch, and if nessacary, take one of those school milks, keep it in a sunny place for a few days, and then one day take it to school, and when he's not looking which it with his milk. Oh yeah, "Do unto others what others do unto you". Pull down his pants in P.E.! Or just try stuff that will piss him off. It's all kinda childish, but after all your still a kid.
michael1384
Help! One of them keeps being nice to me when away from the others. AAH! Whats going on here??
Mr Fuzzy
QUOTE (michael1384 @ Apr 22 2006, 12:54 AM) *
Help! One of them keeps being nice to me when away from the others. AAH! Whats going on here??


What's happenning is that that person isn't entirely sure where they stand at the moment. He/She is being a little weak and, although it may not turn out the way you want, needs to be pushed into making their choice on how they want to be towards you. If they fall away from you at least you've found out that they can't be trusted to stick by you when you need them. On the other hand you may end up with a staunch ally.

To all those suggesting low rent MTV tricks: Grow up. At best you get some low life psychological drifters to laugh at your enemy until you get beaten senseless and laughed at by the same people. At worst you'll get the beating of your life, then an intensification of your persecution. If you think MTV gives good advice you're living in a dream world and will probably be disabused of the notion very soon.
Izzy
QUOTE (Mr Fuzzy @ Apr 21 2006, 10:02 PM) *
To all those suggesting low rent MTV tricks: Grow up.


No thank you. tongue.gif
michael1384
This week they were really hurting two of my friends by getting them in a headlock, dragging them to the floor and really hurting them. Still "not as bad as I think they are." Also one of my friends (one of the ones who thinks they are NABAITTA) has been winding me up seriously.

Then again, I have got a 4 day weekend to get through. Aaaw! How terrible! biggrin.gif

P.S. I cant post on the new forums! I just see a white square! Not sure what to do 'cause I can't make a topic.
michael1384
Today he redid my tie for me. Felt a bit uncomfortable considering he's backed me against a wall before.
Izzy
You have to wear a tie to school...?
michael1384
QUOTE (devils_daughter @ May 4 2006, 10:35 PM) *
You have to wear a tie to school...?


Most people in Britain do. It could be worse. I could be wearing a purple blazer or like st peters, or I could be wearing a strange frilly thing like Eton.
michael1384
Today a friend who is quite unpopular with other people got beaten up by their ringleader. I never thought it would come to this. He got told off for retaliating and the ringleader got nothing. He was OK later. I'm just a little shocked. ohmy.gif One of my friends has backed down on "You demonise him" and "he's not as bad as you think he is"
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