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monkey_called_narth
I had to put my 3 mounth old puppy to sleep today.

friday it got kicked by my aunts donkey, and it shattered its left front femur.

Took it to a vet and they kept it for the weekend on strong pain-killers, so that we could find somplace to do a surgery to fix the leg.

Today they released it to us without pain medication, and we couldnt find a place to fix the leg for anything less then two thousand dollars. payment plan? nope. Loan? not to fix a dogs leg.
pay upfront or no surgery.

with no means of paying to fix a broken leg, me and ryan were forced to put our puppy biscut to sleep. Atleast they let me hold her when they gave her the shot.


I have no idea how to feel at the moment.

What the fuck am i supposed to do?
Wookiee
I'm not sure this is really the fault of capitalism, just the way things are managed in the States. Which obviously is rubbish. There are plenty of capitalist nations where this wouldn't have happened. So maybe you should be saying "F'ck the US!". And then everyone can be all like "OMG why do you hate Freedom? TERRARRIST!!!!", and you'll just have to explain it's because a donkey kicked a puppy, and then the whole thing will just be blackly hilarious.
Phyllis
I know it's too late now, but if you get another puppy sometime you should look into vet insurance for it. I'm not sure what it costs per month, but most procedures tend to be covered, I think.
Forever Unknown
I'm really sorry for your loss.

That said, I'm not one for fluffy and I'm a little disturbed by what's happened. If there was no chance for the puppy to survive, I would agree with having it put down. However, there was - and a damn good one. And while it would have been an expensive operation, animals are part of the family and you would spend any amount of money to ensure they get to have a life, surely?

The puppy died because it had a broken leg and, to be honest, that kind of sickens me. All vets would offer a payment plan that would allow you to pay off a bill bit by bit. They do a job that helps people but also costs money - they're not capitalist monsters. Is it their fault that no-one seemed to look hard enough for another option?
Wookiee
That's also a very good point. And if it had been a baby instead of a puppy, your family probably would've spent ten times as much, and had the donkey shot in the face.
Phyllis
QUOTE (Forever Unknown @ Mar 6 2007, 04:58 PM) *
All vets would offer a payment plan that would allow you to pay off a bill bit by bit.


I'm pretty sure she said in her original post that none of the vets she tried would offer her a payment plan.
Forever Unknown
I'm not convinced that everyone within a however-big radius would say no. Not one bit, I'm afraid. Vets are there to save lives, and I've never known one to ever say no to a payment plan for the sake of an animal. I am, in fact, appalled that any vet would put down an animal - aside from horses - for a broken leg.
pgrmdave
I mean no offense Forever Unknown, but you don't really know what you're talking about. While I'm sure that your experiance is different, I don't think that Narth would have given up easily for her puppy. Perhaps you should give Narth more credit, and US vets less.
Forever Unknown
I love it when people say 'I mean no offence, but...' and then along comes something offensive.

I think having lived my entire life as an owner of dogs and cats I have a little experience in this matter. Anything aside from that, I'm commenting on the information I've been given. I don't know if she's given up easily but it did seem somewhat like that. Not to mention what on earth a 12 week old puppy is doing around a donkey in the first place! I'm fairly certain that at 12 weeks, puppies haven't had all their vaccinations and thus shouldn't even be leaving the house, let alone being near an animal that could easily do them a great deal of damage.

I'm afraid I remain unconvinced about the vet situation, as it seems far too cold-hearted for them to react in such a way. But I do know a veterinary nurse in the States and I'm more than happy to go and ask her what the situation tends to be.
oxym0ronical
Recently all the vet clinics here went to the same system. There is one place that offers payment plans, but they are no longer taking new patients because as you can well imagine, they have been flooded with people from other clinics. You have to pay up front in order to have the vet operate, unless it's an emergency. Even if it's an emergency, you have to have some sort of payment in hand in order for them to do anything for your pet. The reason is because many people do not have insurance on their pets, and while they take into consideration health care costs for themselves, they don't consider health care for pets. This leaves them unable to pay for their vet services.

Unfortunately, many pets are put down needlessly because of this. The other issue is of course the fact that veterinary services here aren't as regulated and they do not have to render services if they do not want to. It's not like healthcare for people, where they can't refuse to see a patient in need of services.
monkey_called_narth
QUOTE (Forever Unknown @ Mar 6 2007, 02:29 PM) *
I love it when people say 'I mean no offence, but...' and then along comes something offensive.

I think having lived my entire life as an owner of dogs and cats I have a little experience in this matter. Anything aside from that, I'm commenting on the information I've been given. I don't know if she's given up easily but it did seem somewhat like that. Not to mention what on earth a 12 week old puppy is doing around a donkey in the first place! I'm fairly certain that at 12 weeks, puppies haven't had all their vaccinations and thus shouldn't even be leaving the house, let alone being near an animal that could easily do them a great deal of damage.

I'm afraid I remain unconvinced about the vet situation, as it seems far too cold-hearted for them to react in such a way. But I do know a veterinary nurse in the States and I'm more than happy to go and ask her what the situation tends to be.



you should read the whole damn post.

1. i spoke with people from st. louis ms, to springfeild. now consider the fact that i am three hours from st. louis, and 1 and 1/2 from springfeild.

Every free clinic i spoke with, didn't have the ability to do the surgery.
every vet i spoke to that could wanted anywhere from two thousand to three thousand for the surgery.
Every damn one of them refused a payment plan.
I attempted to take out a loan to pay for the surgery.
I was refused by every bank in town.
I had to drive a half hour just to find a vet that would keep atleast look at the dog after the donkey kicked it. every vet was "no longer accepting emergency calls" where i live.
at 8 o'clock yesterday the dog was released to me from said clinic -without- pain medication, and with a soft cast.
The dog couldnt move, and cried constantly untill 5 pm when i finnaly took it to the vet.
If the dog doesn't leave the house, how is it supposed to go the the bathroom?
The dog actually jumped its cage (half great dane, rotwhiler, and golden retriver.) and ran -toward the donkey- while i was taking care of my grandmother. Cause lest face it, im nto one to leave a puppy home alone for 5 hours a day.
When i took it to a local hospital, one in which i go to, i spoke to the vet and he refused a payment plan. He actually stated that he put down anouther dog not 2 hours befor for the same reason.
The dogs leg was completly shattered. It would have been two thousand per-surgery (i belive they reccomended four for the dog to be able to walk on it again) with a high chance of us being force to amputate it.
The local vet -offered- putting down the puppy as the best solution.

I did a great deal to try and make that puppy live, including paying 500 dollars for it to be kept on pain killers over a weekend so i could try to find a place to do the surgery. I WENT AS FAR AS CALLING PETA DAMNIT.

i dont care what your little freind has to say. This is the real situation that i had to deal with.

for the matter, i own several animals. A great deal of my time is actually spent driving in the country looking for homeless dogs, taking care of them, and finding them a nice place to live. At the moment i have sitting behind me my three-legged pitbull. one which my family has spent 700 dollars on to date. I was unable to raise the amount needed for biscut, and i take a bit of offence to being made look heartless after sleeping with a puppy every night for 3 mounths, and having to watch it get put to sleep because i could not afford to pay for the surgery.

I was only able to raise 600 dollars for biscuts surgery, (200 from myself, 100 from a freind, 300 from my dad) They wouldnt accept even that, with a promis to pay later. it was against the "rules".

Would you rather i have a puppy in constant pain?

The point of this thread isnt what i had to do, the point is that i am fucking pissed off that no vet in a 200 mile radius would allow for a payment plan.

Also when your saying somthing offencive to a extreamly upset pregnant woman, try not to condone somone for being offencive.

also, i just signed all of my animals up for insurance today, not sure if it will cover this kind of recontuctive surgery, but all meds are now free.
Wookiee
Oh noes! It's the "Waaah, I'm pregnant" post!

So, you took on the responsibility of a puppy knowing you'd be out of the house five hours a day with no-one else to look after it, you're caring for your grandmother, you're unable to secure a puppy in a cage so it doesn't get kicked by a donkey, and you're going to have a baby? Still, at least you can blame capitalism!

Thee stupide, o how it doth burn.
Forever Unknown
Pretty much what he said, but nicer. Was it the right time to have a puppy with so much other things happening in your life? Where was your aunt during all this? Who was watching the puppy - was he outside near the donkey and if so, why wasn't he indoors?

I feel I've approached this issue fairly calmly and nicely, while still expressing my concerns, and I get responses like "you don't know what you're talking about" and general hostility. I'm sorry, but I've not been hostile towards anyone - I've expressed very valid concerns and questions about the situation and how it was dealt with. You said I "should read the whole damn post" - however, none of the information you provided in your most recent post was actually in your first post, so really my concerns and questions at the time were perfectly justified, thank you.

QUOTE
If the dog doesn't leave the house, how is it supposed to go the the bathroom?


You can use dog litter. Or let them out in your own enclosed garden. I don't know if the donkey was on your premises or not, but either way they should be kept away from each other.


I do somewhat feel that everyone is so offended by what I'm saying because I'm not mollycoddling someone even when I have raised some valid issues. Just sayin'.
pgrmdave
I really only meant that you hadn't done any research into the specific veterinarians that are near Narth. Perhaps you do know the vets in the St. Louis area, do you? I really didn't mean that you don't know about animals in general, but that neither you nor I know all the specifics of this. And read her post correctly, Narth said that she wasn't going to leave the puppy alone for five hours a day. It seems like she took the puppy with her while she looked after her grandmother, and the puppy jumped out of the cage. That's not her fault - accidents happen, and misjudgements are made about how high a dog can jump, especially if it's a puppy and it's getting stronger every day. The donkey was at her grandmother's house, not her own.

And I'm not offended because your not mollycoddling someone, I'm offended that you can be so rude and unempathetic to think that now is the best time to raise the issues. It's like telling someone who was just raped "You know, maybe you shouldn't have worn that skirt". Maybe you're right, but your still an ass for saying it.
Wookiee
QUOTE (pgrmdave @ Mar 7 2007, 02:24 PM) *
And I'm not offended because your not mollycoddling someone, I'm offended that you can be so rude and unempathetic to think that now is the best time to raise the issues. It's like telling someone who was just raped "You know, maybe you shouldn't have worn that skirt". Maybe you're right, but your still an ass for saying it.


Oh dear. Really? I mean, are you suggesting here that telling a rape victim that her choice of clothing was a contributing factor to her being attacked "may be right"? Aside from the fact that your comparison bears no scrutiny whatsoever, it also makes you come off as reprehensibly misogynistic.

Anyways; Narth has admitted to having an animal she could ill-afford, not least because she hadn't the time to actually look after it or ensure it's well-being. She also tried to blame capitalism for her inadequacy and miserable judgement, which is hilarious. I can only wonder what decisions she will make when her baby is kicked through a wall by a donkey.
Forever Unknown
Well, no, because I didn't know where Narth was based. As I said, I was mostly going on the information available to me. But I've offered to do the research, so it's not like I'm completely ignorant.

QUOTE
And read her post correctly, Narth said that she wasn't going to leave the puppy alone for five hours a day. It seems like she took the puppy with her while she looked after her grandmother, and the puppy jumped out of the cage.


Hell, if you can be condescending so can I. Read MY post correctly. I agree that puppies shouldn't be left alone for five hours (although they are usually fine for that amount of time), but if she has other responsibilities such as her grandmother, and her pregnancy, then maybe it wasn't a good time for her to get a puppy, which need a lot of time and attention. The puppy shouldn't even be going with her as, if they haven't been vaccinated at that time, they can pick up infections and disease very easily.

Yes, it was a mistake but I feel the matter could have been dealt with in a much more reasonable manner. Who was watching the puppy when it escaped from its cage? Why wasn't the cage secured properly, especially if it was near a donkey? Where was her aunt during all this, whom the donkey belongs to? I've already said all this and they're important questions, because right now there seems to have been a lack of responsibility when it comes to looking after the puppy.

I'm sorry, but at the end of the day I am empathetic because it's a horrible situation, but I also think people should learn from mistakes such as these. What if she gets another puppy in a couple of weeks time and the same thing happens? I'd feel awful for not making her realise how it could have been avoided. It's not going to be any easier (and it's certainly more illogical) if I boost this thread in three months time to say "oh, by the way, could you explain this and that, and you should have done this, etc". I'm not being critical but there are still things I feel have not been addressed.

QUOTE
It's like telling someone who was just raped "You know, maybe you shouldn't have worn that skirt". Maybe you're right, but your still an ass for saying it.


Oh my God. You can't be serious. It's NOTHING like that and you're absolutely pathetic for even suggesting it. I'm not trying to be a sh*t when I say that, but they're two completely different situations and you're taking an example to an extreme, which is always a bad way to argue a point. Plus, y'know, I would never actually say that, because it's utter rubbish.

(I've just seen what Wookiee wrote I most certainly agree)
Daria
I don't feel I can comment on the situation, but I do feel that I can comment on the likening of it to rape.

Yes it is a different thing entirely, but I do agree on the clothing issue. I do not believe a woman can be blamed for getting raped.
I do believe, however, that there are things a woman can do that make the line between "sex" go to "Unconsenting sex" a little hazy. For example, a woman could be wearing very provocative clothing, be very flirty, even do things like kiss a guy etc etc- but if they got to the point where sex would occur, and after "leading him on" as she did, she said no then it is more her fault (even though she can't be blamed) than if, say, she didn't act like that.

/spam, I guess.
Wookiee
QUOTE (Daria @ Mar 7 2007, 04:43 PM) *
I don't feel I can comment on the situation, but I do feel that I can comment on the likening of it to rape.

Yes it is a different thing entirely, but I do agree on the clothing issue. I do not believe a woman can be blamed for getting raped.
I do believe, however, that there are things a woman can do that make the line between "sex" go to "Unconsenting sex" a little hazy. For example, a woman could be wearing very provocative clothing, be very flirty, even do things like kiss a guy etc etc- but if they got to the point where sex would occur, and after "leading him on" as she did, she said no then it is more her fault (even though she can't be blamed) than if, say, she didn't act like that.

/spam, I guess.


You're a woman and you really believe that bullsh't? Christ on a shark.
Forever Unknown
Rubbish! It's like saying "if you wear that, don't be surprised if you get raped", which I've witnessed someone say before and they got beaten down for it. People should be free to wear what they want and say 'no' when they want - leading someone on or otherwise, rape is never anyone else's sole fault than the rapists.

There is no 'hazy' line when it comes to non-consensual sex. Saying no is exactly that, not consenting is exactly that, and anything that happens prior to that point should not mean that someone's body is a free-for-all.

Christ. Are we still in the sixties? Am I next going to be told that a wife cannot be raped by her husband because she's kissed, flirted and had sex with him in the past? Because that's pretty similar to what you're saying.
Daria
It is not what I am saying at all.
True, I believe women should be allowed to go naked down the streets if they so wish, and not have to expect to get raped. I believe that women in the US should get equal pay and I believe that Maternity leave should come as standard. But just because I think they SHOULD be happening, doesn't mean that they do happen.

There are things in your behaviour that you could NOT do to make yourself safer. It is common sense.
pgrmdave
Listen, I exagerrated with the rape thing, but my point was the Narth didn't do anything majorly wrong, and someone she cared about deeply is dead. And you are immediately blaming her. That can't make her feel better. Let's try and be a supportive community first, and try to fix any problems later.
Phyllis
blink.gif

Wow, weird turn this thread has taken. I have to agree that comparing Narth's situation to rape is absolutely ridiculous, and I do not believe there is ever any fault in the situation of rape except for with the rapist regardless of what the victim may have worn, said, or done.

As far as the rest goes, I'm glad you got insurance for your remaining pets, Narth. It should cover surgical procedures as well as medicine...or at least will have a smallish deductible that you'll have to pay...you should check your policy information to be sure, though.
Wookiee
QUOTE (Daria @ Mar 7 2007, 04:43 PM) *
I do believe, however, that there are things a woman can do that make the line between "sex" go to "Unconsenting sex" a little hazy. For example, a woman could be wearing very provocative clothing, be very flirty, even do things like kiss a guy etc etc- but if they got to the point where sex would occur, and after "leading him on" as she did, she said no then it is more her fault (even though she can't be blamed) than if, say, she didn't act like that.



QUOTE (Daria @ Mar 7 2007, 04:57 PM) *
It is not what I am saying at all.


I think the evidence speaks for itself. And come on; "It is more her fault (even though she can't be blamed"? What kind of doublespeak is that? What you are saying is that there are circumstances where it would be fair to say a woman is "asking for it". *edited for content. please make your point without being disrespectful*- ravein
Wytukaze
Narth, I'm sorry to hear about the puppy. I remember when one of my dogs escaped from the house and got run over by a van. Ironically, they were let out by builders who were fixing up a wall that our dogs had chewed through and jumped our garden fence. We had to get her leg and half her tail amputated as they were completely mangled and my mother had to take out a huge loan to pay for even that. The situation you were put in by banks and vets is terrible, and the fact that you couldn't even get a payment plan is utterly reprehensible.

All that said, Wookiee and Forever Unknown do have a point. This event isn't the fault of capitalism - something like this could've occurred in any economic system and in any era. However, this doesn't mean fingers have to be pointed at someone at all; this thread has been gainlessly derailed and no good can come of trying to "prevent it happening again". That line is, simply, bull excrement. Your approach to the conversation is hopelessly besides the point, Narth is perfectly free to take on as many responsibilities as she wants and no one needs to be convinced that the accident itself could have been avoided (that's what makes it an accident) or that it was a terrible thing to happen.

Oh, and the lot of you shut the hell up about rape. Honestly.

This has been your bimonthly finger-wagging.
Daria
QUOTE (Wookiee @ Mar 7 2007, 06:45 PM) *
QUOTE (Daria @ Mar 7 2007, 04:43 PM) *

I do believe, however, that there are things a woman can do that make the line between "sex" go to "Unconsenting sex" a little hazy. For example, a woman could be wearing very provocative clothing, be very flirty, even do things like kiss a guy etc etc- but if they got to the point where sex would occur, and after "leading him on" as she did, she said no then it is more her fault (even though she can't be blamed) than if, say, she didn't act like that.



QUOTE (Daria @ Mar 7 2007, 04:57 PM) *
It is not what I am saying at all.


I think the evidence speaks for itself. And come on; "It is more her fault (even though she can't be blamed"? What kind of doublespeak is that? What you are saying is that there are circumstances where it would be fair to say a woman is "asking for it". *edited for content. please make your point without being disrespectful*- ravein


ohmy.gif OH NOES! I HAVE CONFLICTING IDEAS ABOUT A POINT! What ever shall I do?

My point was, apologies for not stating it clearly enough, that it is more likely for a woman to get into a situation of rape if she does certain things. Being drunk, is one example. Being very flirtatious and wearing provocative clothing when around strangers is another.

I am not saying that the woman should be blamed for the rape, I am only suggesting the point stated as above.
Wookiee
QUOTE (Wytukaze @ Mar 7 2007, 07:19 PM) *
Your approach to the conversation is hopelessly besides the point, Narth is perfectly free to take on as many responsibilities as she wants and no one needs to be convinced that the accident itself could have been avoided (that's what makes it an accident) or that it was a terrible thing to happen.


Pfft. Of course she's free to take on as many responsibilities as she wants, but it's a bit rich whingeing about it when it turns out you've bitten off more than you can chew. And as this is an online discussion forum, I don't think either my own or FU's approach has been at all beside the point, insofar as we have been addressing the OP about her post. Just 'cause we've not been coddling her doesn't mean we're hopelessly besides anything.
Daria
Does that mean that only people with a spare [insert about here] thousand [insert currency here] should have pets- just incase they may need major surgery?
Wookiee
QUOTE (Daria @ Mar 7 2007, 07:40 PM) *
ohmy.gif OH NOES! I HAVE CONFLICTING IDEAS ABOUT A POINT! What ever shall I do?

My point was, apologies for not stating it clearly enough, that it is more likely for a woman to get into a situation of rape if she does certain things. Being drunk, is one example. Being very flirtatious and wearing provocative clothing when around strangers is another.

I am not saying that the woman should be blamed for the rape, I am only suggesting the point stated as above.


Again, you are suggesting that, in some circumstances, a woman is ostensibly asking for it.

QUOTE (Daria @ Mar 7 2007, 07:44 PM) *
Does that mean that only people with a spare [insert about here] thousand [insert currency here] should have pets- just incase they may need major surgery?


Yes. Obviously. Don't take on animals you can't properly care for. What's so difficult to grasp about that concept?
pgrmdave
And only rich people should have children. The only people who should have pets are rich people with no job (god forbid we have to leave them alone for a while).
Tarantio
QUOTE (Daria @ Mar 7 2007, 07:40 PM) *
ohmy.gif OH NOES! I HAVE CONFLICTING IDEAS ABOUT A POINT! What ever shall I do?

My point was, apologies for not stating it clearly enough, that it is more likely for a woman to get into a situation of rape if she does certain things. Being drunk, is one example. Being very flirtatious and wearing provocative clothing when around strangers is another.

I am not saying that the woman should be blamed for the rape, I am only suggesting the point stated as above.


First off, I don't mean to further derail the thread, and I'm sure this already has a topic somewhere, but I do feel I should comment on this at least.

In said previous thread I remember saying something very similar to what you're arguing, Daria, and being vehemently opposed. My opinion has since changed, but I do appreciate where you're coming from. Blame is beside the point, though. No woman is in any way responsible for being raped, that's something that lies with the offender solely. Every human being has free will, and nothing we do can force another person to do anything like that. Perhaps you mean that a woman who acts/dresses/etc in this way is more at risk of being a victim? That was the reasoning I had behind my original view on the subject. But then that's not the woman's fault in any way either. Yes she chose to act/dress like that, but not so she could be at risk of being raped, its the perception of the offender, and their choice, that matters when it comes to apportioning blame.

On topic, I do agree that its a little odd to be surprised at this loss when there were obviously so many other more important concerns and responsibilities to be considered, but that doesn't mean that anyone should feel the loss any less, or indeed that their folly should be pointed out to them at the first opportunity. How would anyone react if someone had posted about losing a child, or loved one? I should hope that it would be out of respect, in spite of any other circumstances.

That said, I'm sorry for your loss, Narth, and I'm glad you took the positive step of insuring the rest of your pets. I hope you don't need to deal with this again any time in the future. *hugs*
Oni Usagi
QUOTE (Wookiee @ Mar 7 2007, 03:00 PM) *
QUOTE (Daria @ Mar 7 2007, 07:44 PM) *

Does that mean that only people with a spare [insert about here] thousand [insert currency here] should have pets- just incase they may need major surgery?


Yes. Obviously. Don't take on animals you can't properly care for. What's so difficult to grasp about that concept?


So everyone should assume the worst in all situations and never take any risks no matter how little? Stop breathing you might inhale a germ and get sick and die! Don't get a car the price of gas might go up to 32 gold bars a gallon!!ONe

I'm reminded of a quote I heard somewhere, it goes something like.
"I'm not so afraid of losing something that I won't try having it."
Wookiee
QUOTE (pgrmdave @ Mar 7 2007, 08:15 PM) *
And only rich people should have children. The only people who should have pets are rich people with no job (god forbid we have to leave them alone for a while).



QUOTE (Oni Usagi @ Mar 7 2007, 08:21 PM) *
So everyone should assume the worst in all situations and never take any risks no matter how little? Stop breathing you might inhale a germ and get sick and die! Don't get a car the price of gas might go up to 32 gold bars a gallon!!ONe

I'm reminded of a quote I heard somewhere, it goes something like.
"I'm not so afraid of losing something that I won't try having it."


Yes. Of course. That's exactly what I'm saying.

Or, how about thinking about it sensibly? How about someone who has to care for an elderly relative, is pregnant, and not financially secure enough to care for a dog, thinks to themselves, "Maybe now is not the time of my life in which I should have a puppy. Maybe I should wait a few years."? Or is that just so painfully obvious that the average person wouldn't think of it?

In response to pgrmdave; when adopting a young animal, taking time of work for a week or two is necessary, and if you're not prepared to do so, then don't adopt a young animal. If you can't afford to look after the animal, don't adopt it. If you're unable to watch your puppy well enough to ensure it doesn't get kicked to pieces by a donkey, then don't adopt it. Do you see a pattern emerging here?

And don't get me started on who should or should not be allowed to have children, 'cause I can already see the bastions of fearful self-righteous posters crying "Hitler!", and I can't even be arsed with that.
Oni Usagi
QUOTE (Wookiee @ Mar 7 2007, 04:06 PM) *
Or, how about thinking about it sensibly? How about someone who has to care for an elderly relative, is pregnant, and not financially secure enough to care for a dog, thinks to themselves, "Maybe now is not the time of my life in which I should have a puppy. Maybe I should wait a few years."? Or is that just so painfully obvious that the average person wouldn't think of it?

I can agree with that, however that isn't anything like what you originally said.
Wookiee
QUOTE (Oni Usagi @ Mar 7 2007, 09:56 PM) *
QUOTE (Wookiee @ Mar 7 2007, 04:06 PM) *

Or, how about thinking about it sensibly? How about someone who has to care for an elderly relative, is pregnant, and not financially secure enough to care for a dog, thinks to themselves, "Maybe now is not the time of my life in which I should have a puppy. Maybe I should wait a few years."? Or is that just so painfully obvious that the average person wouldn't think of it?

I can agree with that, however that isn't anything like what you originally said.


That isn't anything like "Don't take on animals you can't properly care for"? Stone me, that's incredible. I could've sworn it was exactly like it.
Snugglebum the Destroyer
Do we want to offer some actual support to Narth or do we want to debate on who or who should not have puppies/children/a small rodent who may or may not be able to count?

Only, we've hijacked a thread that is not equipt to deal with the fall out.
Wookiee
QUOTE (Snugglebum the Destroyer @ Mar 7 2007, 11:24 PM) *
Do we want to offer some actual support to Narth or do we want to debate on who or who should not have puppies/children/a small rodent who may or may not be able to count?


Or who/who should not have a donkey!
Snugglebum the Destroyer
\i I thinck donkeys should smack whomever they like- grumpy bas tards that theyarewww
oxym0ronical
I think one of the biggest points we're missing here is that this was posted in Personal Concerns rather than something like Issues or other sections where debate is more common. It is more than safe to assume the posts that are posted here aren't up for debate - it's posted because the person needs support.

If you want to debate who should own pets or have children or the likelihood of a person being raped, there is a proper forum for it. There's a time and a place for everything.. and personally, I don't think this was the time or the place for discussing Narth's ability to juggle all her responsibilities and whether or not she should have a pet.
monkey_called_narth
Let it be know i could afford the dog. paying a few dollars a week is a bit diffrent then having a demand for two thousand dollars immidiatly. Saying i am unable to afford a dog is a bit much.

and it makes me want to see your bank balance if you have a pet, cause unless you can afford to drop two thousand dollars this second. You shouldnt own a single one of them.

aslo, i didn't really adopt biscut from anouther person. i found her in a box on christmas eve near my grandfathers house. she was (about) two weeks old, and i nursed her to the current health she was in (slightly over weight, but i was working on getting her back to a healthy size). She was quite the jumper.

when i said read all of the post, i ment the post i was writing.

I am currently 2 months pregnant, i had the dog -befor- i had the little baby inside me. I didnt go "how to make my life more complicated... oh, puppy, terminally ill grandmother, baby." Thats just how my current situation worked out. I also had the puppy befor i started taking care of my grandmother, she was being kept on the inclosed porch, but the day befor that Biscut managed to find a way to escape it. (the lock on the door is kinnda loose, and she could push the door and slip out) so i put her in the 4 foot fence in which my grandmother used to keep her dog. (it was 21 years old, and died in the fall). I wasnt able to perdict the idea that the puppy would be able to get over the fence... i thought it would be far to tall for a puppy considering that the full grown german shepard never once jumped over it. Let alone ran around the house to where the donkey is kept. The donkey has now been sold to a nice fram a few towns over, she is to be traind by the nice lady and pull a cart.

so i cant afford surgeries at a moment notice, i guess i should have left biscut to freeze to death on christmas eve. then i should have kept her in extream pain untill ryan gets paid an exrta 200 friday, only to be turned down then.

My pregnancy has little to do this, other then the fact that i am a tab bit more emotional then i would normally be. My standing as a socialist, paired with me being a tad bit emoitional lead for a sudden outburst of capitalist hate. Also, me being pregnat is a really big suprise, and being moniterd closely by my doctor because untill i went in with the strip, they thought i couldnt be pregnant.

Why they angry blame? Well, i would personally expect a vet to look at a puppy in pain, then the owner and says "you can afford to pay 400 a month, with 600 down? that means in about 4 months the surgery would be paid for. we can do that." and not "well, we cant allow you to make a payment plan, but if you put her to sleep we will not charge you the manditory fee of 50 dollars for bringing her here to be looked at. instead we will jsut charge you the avrage cost for the shot which is 45 dollars."

I think -that- is fucked up. I really do.

i am not going to debate this anymore. if you want to debate it you can make a thread in issues.
Mata
Wookie: lots of vets used to offer payment plans, so it was reasonable that Narth should expect that she could afford to look after the puppy. She is annoyed that they have stopped offering this, and understandably so. It was not irresponsible to expect that payment plans would still be being offered, so quit bitching at her!
Forever Unknown
See, now I've got more information I feel more comfortable going 'Ok, fair enough' and letting it lie. Seems reasonable. I know I may have sounded like an arse (although no more than anyone else), ultimately I made a post with some questions and issues and got jumped on for seeming 'heartless' and got judged left right and bloody centre. So obviously the whole thing got blown out of proportion.

QUOTE (Wytukaze)
trying to "prevent it happening again". That line is, simply, bull excrement.


I personally don't think that's the case, and seeing as I made it I feel I should maybe know best, but there we go.

QUOTE (Oni Usagi)
Stop breathing you might inhale a germ and get sick and die! Don't get a car the price of gas might go up to 32 gold bars a gallon!!ONe


This is one of the silliest and over-dramatic things I've ever encountered. Well done!
monkey_called_narth
sorry for snapping at you Forever Unknow, as said befor im a tab bit emotional and prone to explode.

so you know, i actually did try rather hard to save biscut.... and now i have insurance for my other animals so this situation should not happen again. i hope not anyway, i am still waiting for my nice booklet that i am to be sent, detailing everything my pets are covered for.

http://www.petinsurance.com/]get insurace

i was kinnda dissapointed when i found out they dont offer for horses.
Forever Unknown
I'm really pleased you've gotten insurance - it is really important when it comes to animals, especially dogs as their vet bills are always huge.
monkey_called_narth
yeah, i am looking into finding horse insurance. i have somthing for them now, but it only covers if they are hit by a car. odd? only a little.

its odd though, the most i paid was 700, and that was for Zuse. (he was shot by a disorderly neighbor, had to get his leg amputated) i was blown away by how much they expected immidiatly, but i guess it is understandable. Biscut had to have screws and a plate on her femur, and a false knee put in. because of her age she would have to have several surgeries untill she was fully grown, and none of them had a real promis that she would be able to walk, and not have her leg amputated.

I am extreamly discouraged with all vets in the st. louis area.
Secretkeeper
I'm really sorry that puppy you put so much caring into had to be put to sleep. I don't know where you live I do know that in the area where I live SOME not all vets will take payment plans... It can be very frustrating.

To some of you who think only those who can afford should have obviosly don't understand that the whole world can change in the blink of an eye physically, finacially etc. So what you think you have one day may be gone even before the day is over. Doing your best with what you have may be a better idea.
monkey_called_narth
It seems to be a recent thing for the et in town, with Zuse i made a payment plan. I plan on talking to some people and finding out what the deal is.
Daria
I don't want to seem as though I am picking at a scab here, but I have been AFK since Wednesday evening, and I just wanted to clear it up:

QUOTE (Tarantio)
Perhaps you mean that a woman who acts/dresses/etc in this way is more at risk of being a victim?

Yep, that was what I meant. I'm not particularly eloquent when trying to explain things, and it just came out wrong.

I apologise for what I said when it seemed otherwise. Also for making the arguement into a bigger thing.

*hugs Narth* I think that it is pretty commendable that not only are you rescuing animals and caring for them the best you can, you are also looking after peoples.
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