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Mata
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/6725653.stm

Having dated people of all hair colours (including various unnatural shades) not to mention a variety of skin tones, I find this rather odd. Weirdly though, it's very common in British culture. Have any of you done this, been victim of this, or seen it? How did you feel about it?

I've never felt it was on a par with racism, or the other big 'ism's, because there hasn't been such vindictiveness associated with it, but it has always struck me as odd that it seems to be vaguely socially acceptable to pick on people because of their hair colour. It was never really around me when I was growing up, and I've only really seen it in the last decade, so it strikes me as very odd. Perhaps I just didn't notice it?
gothictheysay
No, it is very weird. The closest thing to that here would probably be blonde jokes and stereotypes, but I've never seen it really bad (or stabbing-people-in-the-back-bad). Strange. Scary.
Pixelgoth
QUOTE (Mata @ Jun 8 2007, 12:34 AM) *
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/6725653.stm

Having dated people of all hair colours (including various unnatural shades) not to mention a variety of skin tones, I find this rather odd. Weirdly though, it's very common in British culture. Have any of you done this, been victim of this, or seen it? How did you feel about it?

I've never felt it was on a par with racism, or the other big 'ism's, because there hasn't been such vindictiveness associated with it, but it has always struck me as odd that it seems to be vaguely socially acceptable to pick on people because of their hair colour. It was never really around me when I was growing up, and I've only really seen it in the last decade, so it strikes me as very odd. Perhaps I just didn't notice it?


I've never known anyone to be out and out picked on for their hair colour. There are jokes made about it but I'm not sure why. Catherine Tate made a joke out of it for her show but I guess that's because she is ginger and probably has suffered some sort of jibes.

Personally, I dyed my hair ginger for many many years and never suffered any 'bad press'. I get more bad press for being a blonde and from Essex rolleyes.gif

Perhaps there was more to this and the paper just saw an interesting angle?? unsure.gif
pgrmdave
I've never seen red hair be cause for bullying, but it does make mention that it doesn't happen in the US.
Calantyr
Ginger hair is fairly uncommon, and everyone likes harassing someone. Be they goths, fat, have bracer's, freckles, etc. It's just playground mentality. Pick on the outsider and feel better about yourself.

The world would be a much nicer place if we all just accepted our new ginger overlords.

Daria
I don't like ginger freckled children. They actually make my skin crawl.


I would never let them know that I don't like them, nor would I make comments/ jokes about them. I. Just. Don't. Like. Them.

And I have no idea why.

Edit- I have no problem with adults with ginger hair and freckles. Just kids.
Witless
Seems a bit odd to me too. I find it odd quite how much men that choose to wear wigs get mocked too. In my personal opinion they're look better if they just went without the wig, but I don't think they look any more or less funny than women with hair loss wearing wigs from my opinion.

Tis odd how people so easily jump on a band wagon of thought that can sometimes actually go against practicality and sense that they otherwise would have considered if not for the influence of others. Ah well, being open minded to other people's thoughts has to backfire sometimes I guess.
Forever Unknown
Maybe you didn't notice is! "Gingerism" isn't something new. I had a ginger friend back in school and she got harassed for it as well. That is, until the kids grew up and realised that red hair was actually gorgeous.

As Dave quite rightly is, it's a playground mentality. And it basically stems from children being complete sh*ts, and that is more the case now than it was ten years ago. I'm sure there are families out there who have had the same amount of harassment directed at them due to another factor rather than hair colour.
michael1384
I have been a huge victim of this. It's just racism. Yep. I said it. Racism. Because thats what it is. An the jokes arn't even that funny. They are increadibly repetative.
e.g.

"Ginger pubes"

Me: "Well arn't you witty!"

Well I can only wait. It's a dominant gene and there will be more soon. People don't make fun of majoritys.

I just think it's racism. Whenever somebody makes a joke I wonder what would happen if the people they were joking about were asian or were disabled.
Moosh
QUOTE (michael1384 @ Jun 8 2007, 05:40 PM) *
I just think it's racism. Whenever somebody makes a joke I wonder what would happen if the people they were joking about were asian or were disabled.


Absolutely nothing. This is playground humour, and it's the same if you're ginger, black, asian, fat, small, disabled, foreign or have an unusual name. If you're in a minority at school, you're going to get picked on. I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying that nothing happens to gingers that doesn't happen to other people who don't fit the norm for their area.
Snugglebum the Destroyer
I'm naturally, well, I would say auburn. When I was a kid - it was known as ginger and I was bullied relentlesly. Is it racism, I don't know. I do know that it made me very anxious about everything about me.

Now - I dye my hair bright red; it complements me; I have very pale skin and I freckle in a fetching manner when the sun makes an appearance.

You grow out of the bullying and, to date, every one of the people who referred to me as a 'ginger minger' has since wanted to be my mate/sleep with me. Gingers always redeem themselves. smile.gif
Phyllis
QUOTE (michael1384 @ Jun 8 2007, 05:40 PM) *
I have been a huge victim of this. It's just racism. Yep. I said it. Racism. Because thats what it is. An the jokes arn't even that funny. They are increadibly repetative.

Racism? Uh, I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one. I can relate to being frustrated with hearing the same jokes over and over and over. I'm an American living in England. Nearly everyone has the same things to say about the way I speak, or how many guns I obviously must have, and it just gets very boring.

But I'm not being discriminated against. Like other people have said, it's playground bullying. I really don't think it's on the same level as racism. That doesn't mean that I think it isn't damaging...I'm sure it is, especially if the person is already insecure about his/her appearance. But hurt feelings do not equal racism. For example, I have a hard time believing that if a blonde girl brought you home her prejudiced father would yell at her for dating a ginger guy.

It doesn't make the teasing right, but comparing it to racism really doesn't put you in a very favorable light, to be honest.
mooooooooooopo
It's the difference between teasing you for something and denying you important opportunities or refusing services because of it. It's a whole different order of magnitude.
Forever Unknown
^ Absolutely to both the above points. Taking it as far as comparing it to 'racism' is Political Correctness gone a bit mental.
Phyllis
QUOTE (michael1384 @ Jun 8 2007, 05:40 PM) *
Well I can only wait. It's a dominant gene and there will be more soon. People don't make fun of majoritys.

I didn't see this part of your post the first time. moop mentioned it to me yesterday, when we were talking about how many people on my mom's side of the family have red hair.

I hate to break it to you, but the whole country is not going to turn ginger. Red hair is the rarest hair color, and it's probably going to stay that way because it is a recessive trait. Both parents need to have the mutated gene that causes red hair in order to have a redheaded child. Note: this does not necessarily mean that either of them has to have red hair themselves. This also doesn't mean that two parents who carry the gene will have any redheaded children. Also -- only 4% of the population of the world carry the gene.

This site explains a bit more about the genetics behind red hair.
Pixelgoth
QUOTE (candice @ Jun 12 2007, 10:36 AM) *
QUOTE (michael1384 @ Jun 8 2007, 05:40 PM) *

Well I can only wait. It's a dominant gene and there will be more soon. People don't make fun of majoritys.

I didn't see this part of your post the first time. moop mentioned it to me yesterday, when we were talking about how many people on my mom's side of the family have red hair.

I hate to break it to you, but the whole country is not going to turn ginger. Red hair is the rarest hair color, and it's probably going to stay that way because it is a recessive trait. Both parents need to have the mutated gene that causes red hair in order to have a redheaded child. Note: this does not necessarily mean that either of them has to have red hair themselves. This also doesn't mean that two parents who carry the gene will have any redheaded children. Also -- only 4% of the population of the world carry the gene.

This site explains a bit more about the genetics behind red hair.


Personally, all this talk about red/auburn hair is just making me wanna dye mine that colour biggrin.gif I got teased at school when I did it the first time but only because I'd done such an awful job of it laugh.gif

It's not racism, it's silly school playground bullying. Some people (the mature ones) grow out of it and some don't. We should pity those people that feel it necessary to ridicule people because of their hair colour as a. they obviously have nothing better to do with their lives and b. they can't think up anything more insulting. It's just plain sad and pathetic!
Pixelgoth
QUOTE (jennyuk @ Jun 14 2007, 01:15 AM) *
[message deleted by Mata


I can smell something....er...it's spam! dry.gif
Radaga
I find this amusing, simply because ginger here in brazil is a HUGE "hot" issue.

Ginger girls are disputed almost physically by 99% of all man I know.
elphaba2
^ For some reason, that seems incredibly surprising to me--I'd always thought of Brazil as a place where "exotic" women of any variety were thought of as incredibly hot. Then again, I could be misinterpreting your comment--you do mean "dispute" as in the men don't like redheads, right?

Here, red hair is thought of either neutrally or positively in white girls, depending probably on the cuteness of the freckles that go along with it. One thing I noticed is that red hair is actually a really popular dye shade for hispanic and black girls, ranging from kind of maroonish purple to henna-colored, which is interesting. No idea why, though.
Wytukaze
Just to address those who think 'gingerism' isn't also an American thing, I submit for your attention the famous "Ginger Kids" episode of South Park. Here's a bad-quality YouTube clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCN2yRB0-8Q

I know a South Park episode by itself isn't evidence, but I'm just sayin', it is present, and a quick google would find plenty of all-American instances.

On a linguistics note, I find the new use of the -ism suffix interesting. To me, 'gingerism' means 'tendency for being ginger', and that's actually what I thought it was before remembering the news article and then reading the thread. A lot of people, however, have taken the examples of 'racism' and 'sexism' and extended it to, with a meaning of 'being against X' or something similar, 'fattism' or 'fatism' ('being against fate'?) (http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=fattism and http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=fatism) and so on, when what I would expect would be 'weightism' (which has less ghits). This isn't me complaining, I'm just noting to a largely uncaring audience something I observed. Carry on.
Radaga
QUOTE (elphaba2 @ Jun 17 2007, 11:28 PM) *
^ For some reason, that seems incredibly surprising to me--I'd always thought of Brazil as a place where "exotic" women of any variety were thought of as incredibly hot. Then again, I could be misinterpreting your comment--you do mean "dispute" as in the men don't like redheads, right?


They DO like. Disputed as in fought for.

And Red hair here is exotic, by the way. As natural norse blondes and crystal-blue eyes.
Snugglebum the Destroyer
QUOTE
As natural norse blondes


Wouldn't that involve some sort of 'spot check'?

Brazilian: Are you a Natural Norse Blonde, madam?
Possibly Natural Norse Blonde: Of course!
Brazilian: Please come with me...


smile.gif
Felander
At first glance, I thought this thread was about the terrible affliction of actually being ginger.
Forever Unknown
Yes. Because 'ginger' is in no way similar to 'n-er', 'cause 'n-er' spawns from years of oppression and violence and ginger is a hair colour.
Phyllis
QUOTE (michael1384 @ Aug 16 2007, 12:51 AM) *
To be honest I thing the word ginger is as bad as the dreaded "n" word.

I'm sorry, but what? That is ridiculous.

As I said before, when you cannot separate being teased from racism it doesn't paint you in a very positive light. People do not burn crosses on the lawns of the redheaded. There are not centuries of violence and oppression associated with having red hair.

Stupid jokes that you've heard a million times are not racism. You may not like the jokes, and you don't have to. I really get tired of people mocking my accent, for instance (seriously, I'm not going to change it on purpose, and that "herb" joke was ONLY funny coming from Eddie Izzard). That stuff will get an eyeroll from me every time, because I promise you I have heard it all*. But the people who make those cliched jokes are not being racist in ANY way. They're just being lame. HUGE difference.

Your rights are not being infringed upon. No one is denying you any opportunities just because you're ginger. And, to be honest, I think that even more people will take the piss if you keep up the attitude of comparing teasing to racism! I don't mean to be harsh in this post, but you seriously aren't doing yourself any favors with this approach.

*I will, however, laugh at clever and original jokes on the subject of my accent. I just haven't heard any yet. tongue.gif
Sir Psycho Sexy
QUOTE (michael1384 @ Aug 16 2007, 12:51 AM) *
To be honest I thing the word ginger is as bad as the dreaded "n" word.


I call bollocks on that!

If 'ginger' is as bad as 'nigger', why did your type ginger instead of just refering to it as the "g" word?

Also, the "n" word?! Do you not know how to spell it?


Edit: No, this isn't a helpful post, nor particularly constructive. Mocking someone for being ginger would be the same as, for example, my sister mocking me for having spindley yet excessively hairy legs, which she does, lots (she calls them hairy twiglets, a tribute to Dave Lee Travis, the hairy cornflake). I've also been told I have hobbit feet, which amuses me because I'm over 6 feet tall. In short, build a bridge, get over it.
Spacehappy
I did once say to the missus mother when drunk ..."When are you going to dye your hair to a natural colour selection, ginger is just so wrong" ... Well she hates me now ...don't know why. True story btw, she glared at me i swear she would have killed me if she could have gotten away with it.
Fish Head
I just noticed that 'ginger' and 'nigger' are anagrams of one another. O_O


On topic, I find that the teasing over hair color, while annoying, is not something to seriously worried about, after all, people aren't slain for their hair color. I mean, if things were kicked up a few notches to the point where there were news worthy social confrontations and hate crimes about red headed individuals, then it would be a worthy isuue.
-TheKasbah-
Right, I have a lot of points to make about this topic because there are so much idiotic posts that have been made.

1. By saying that ginger jokes are racist, you have just said that gingers are a whole different race and therefore you have just made fun of them
2.I'm Irish, and there are a lot of gingers here, and it is just as common as nearly any other way of making fun of someone, just maybe not in your country, on that point, just because we are irish doesn't mean we are all short, wear green and are ginger. Not that it has anything to do with the topic, I thought I would say it anyway.
3. Not all gingers are made fun off, I see just as much jokes about accents, countries, cars, mothers and most flyly of all, really unfortunate things like the disappearance of Madeline McCann, and for American incase they didn't hear of that, also 9/11 jokes.
4. I like to think of myself as above all that kind of stuff, I have ginger friends and sometimes make fun of their hair, but in the sense of making fun of people who say things like that seriously.
5. Cool point Fish Head, that'll keep me entertained for a good while laugh.gif

Sorry if I went of the point a little, but really, a lot of the posts have been a lot of bollocks, thanks for you time wink.gif
Phyllis
QUOTE (-TheKasbah- @ Sep 14 2007, 11:27 PM) *
Sorry if I went of the point a little, but really, a lot of the posts have been a lot of bollocks, thanks for you time ;)

By "a lot" do you mean the two or three posts that were saying "gingerism" is akin to racism, or the bagillion posts from the rest of us disagreeing with that? tongue.gif
-TheKasbah-
QUOTE (candice @ Sep 15 2007, 11:07 AM) *
QUOTE (-TheKasbah- @ Sep 14 2007, 11:27 PM) *

Sorry if I went of the point a little, but really, a lot of the posts have been a lot of bollocks, thanks for you time ;)

By "a lot" do you mean the two or three posts that were saying "gingerism" is akin to racism, or the bagillion posts from the rest of us disagreeing with that? tongue.gif


I mean the whole bloody thing, why start a topic about gingerism. Why not something like a proper issue like poverty that affects the world instead of gingerism?

I'm not being ignorant, if anyone can come up with convinceing proof that gingerism is a cause of suicide or death then I won't say any more about it.
Novander
QUOTE (-TheKasbah- @ Sep 15 2007, 07:33 PM) *
I mean the whole bloody thing, why start a topic about gingerism. Why not something like a proper issue like poverty that affects the world instead of gingerism?

Well for one thing, I think everyone here will pretty much agree that poverty: generally a bad thing. It's not going to be the greatest debate of our time.

QUOTE
I'm not being ignorant, if anyone can come up with convinceing proof that gingerism is a cause of suicide or death then I won't say any more about it.

There were a number of cases of serious bullying of ginger people in the news recently. Just because they didn't lead to suicide doesn't mean it's not a serious issue. A family in Newcastle were driven from their home because of it according to this.

Edit: I guess I should add my own views on this. In my time, I'm pretty sure I've mocked people based on their race, hair colour, age, gender, anything-else-you-can-think-of. But these people were all friends, and I was never mean, so it's allowed, right? Certainly, I've put up with every "haha welshboy" joke you can think of because they came from friends. So in that sense ginger teasing is fine and only someone a little over-sensitive is going to take it seriously.

The problem comes when it stops being teasing and becomes abuse; when it comes from strangers or bullies. And in this sense it is every bit as bad as racism, sexism or any other ism.

But using 'ginger' as an insult is not comparable to using 'nigger'. Nigger has never been anything but the worst of derogatory terms. I might joke about a black friend's race, as they'd joke about mine, but I would never call them a nigger. I wouldn't hold back similarly when joking with a ginger friend. The only times I'm ever allowed to use that word are in posts like this and when I'm singing along to the Office Space soundtrack.
Phyllis
QUOTE (-TheKasbah- @ Sep 15 2007, 07:33 PM) *
I mean the whole bloody thing, why start a topic about gingerism. Why not something like a proper issue like poverty that affects the world instead of gingerism?

I'm not being ignorant, if anyone can come up with convinceing proof that gingerism is a cause of suicide or death then I won't say any more about it.

Why start the topic? Because there was an article about it on the BBC website (linked in the original post). Not everything in Issues has to be serious life or death type stuff (poverty, AIDS, marmosets...). Some of it is, and some of it is stuff like the "gingerism" article. I think the penis poll of way back when was in issues, wasn't it?

Most people have said that it's just playground-type teasing, and while it might be annoying it isn't really all that bad. I'm not really seeing how offering that (perfectly reasonable) opinion in response to a news article is a lot of bollocks, to be honest. If you only want people to debate about issues that you find important,* then maybe you should post some other threads rather than whining about it. tongue.gif


*I do not find this issue particularly important, to be honest. It's a hair color, not a disability. But there are people on this forum who disagree with me...and so we debate about it. Welcome to the Internet: people will pretty much debate about anything here. ;)
-TheKasbah-
Like I said Novander, you came up with a good argument, so I'll leave it at that. Just my opinion on things.

And Candice, exactly like you said, I was debating that this was a load of bollocks. wink.gif
michael1384
Sorry everyone, the topic just makes me a little angry.
Izzy
I don't think this is as bad as racism, but it's pretty sad that people get discriminated against because of a hair color.

But anyway, guys with long red/ginger hair are (9 times outta 10) HAWT! Especially with freckles!
selina
i live in asia so i rarely see varieties of hair colour other than black here. but is it true that redheads are more sensitive to pain than others?
Izzy
I doubt it. That'd be kinda like saying most chicks with blonde hair are dumb.
Calantyr
QUOTE (Izzy @ Sep 29 2007, 04:29 PM) *
That'd be kinda like saying most chicks with blonde hair are dumb.


Must... not... comment...
michael1384
QUOTE (selina @ Sep 29 2007, 04:13 PM) *
i live in asia so i rarely see varieties of hair colour other than black here. but is it true that redheads are more sensitive to pain than others?


It's actually a higher pain threshhold. We also absorb more vitamin D but are more sensative to sunlight.
Izzy
QUOTE (Calantyr @ Oct 2 2007, 10:23 PM) *
QUOTE (Izzy @ Sep 29 2007, 04:29 PM) *

That'd be kinda like saying most chicks with blonde hair are dumb.


Must... not... comment...

Natural blondes I should've said... They're not all dumb, you know.
Daria
QUOTE (michael1384 @ Oct 3 2007, 09:22 PM) *
QUOTE (selina @ Sep 29 2007, 04:13 PM) *
i live in asia so i rarely see varieties of hair colour other than black here. but is it true that redheads are more sensitive to pain than others?


It's actually a higher pain threshhold. We also absorb more vitamin D but are more sensative to sunlight.


Only read-headed women have a higher pain threshold, according to studies. Men don't.
Sorry Michael tongue.gif
selina
QUOTE (Daria @ Oct 4 2007, 08:14 AM) *
QUOTE (michael1384 @ Oct 3 2007, 09:22 PM) *

QUOTE (selina @ Sep 29 2007, 04:13 PM) *
i live in asia so i rarely see varieties of hair colour other than black here. but is it true that redheads are more sensitive to pain than others?


It's actually a higher pain threshhold. We also absorb more vitamin D but are more sensative to sunlight.


Only read-headed women have a higher pain threshold, according to studies. Men don't.
Sorry Michael tongue.gif


so even nature's sexist =)
i think its because redheads produce the least melanin that protects the skin from uv rays. i didn't know about the vitamin d though. the pain thing and it affecting only women is also odd to me.
-TheKasbah-
I heard that according to studies that it was both males and females with ginger hair had a higher pain threshold. So I don't agree with you Daria.

Also, I'm ginger in the Summer and brown for the rest. Sun lightens my hair. =P
michael1384
QUOTE (selina @ Oct 4 2007, 01:46 PM) *
QUOTE (Daria @ Oct 4 2007, 08:14 AM) *

QUOTE (michael1384 @ Oct 3 2007, 09:22 PM) *

QUOTE (selina @ Sep 29 2007, 04:13 PM) *
i live in asia so i rarely see varieties of hair colour other than black here. but is it true that redheads are more sensitive to pain than others?


It's actually a higher pain threshhold. We also absorb more vitamin D but are more sensative to sunlight.


Only read-headed women have a higher pain threshold, according to studies. Men don't.
Sorry Michael tongue.gif


so even nature's sexist =)
i think its because redheads produce the least melanin that protects the skin from uv rays. i didn't know about the vitamin d though. the pain thing and it affecting only women is also odd to me.


Bloody nature.
Daria
QUOTE (-TheKasbah- @ Oct 4 2007, 05:30 PM) *
I heard that according to studies that it was both males and females with ginger hair had a higher pain threshold. So I don't agree with you Daria.

Sorry to be pedantic, but:
Here, here, here, and lastly here.

I rest my case.
Forever Unknown
QUOTE (Daria @ Oct 5 2007, 01:57 AM) *
QUOTE (-TheKasbah- @ Oct 4 2007, 05:30 PM) *

I heard that according to studies that it was both males and females with ginger hair had a higher pain threshold. So I don't agree with you Daria.

Sorry to be pedantic, but:
Here, here, here, here, and lastly here.

I rest my case.


Well, that sorted that one out!
pgrmdave
Interesting that they feel more pain due to cold, though.
michael1384
Sorry to necropost but:
http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/AntiGinger/signatures
Phyllis
Huh. The people who made/signed that petition have waaaay too much time on their hands. They strike me as the type of people who probably devote their weekends to making abusive, text-speak filled comments on YouTube.

Still doesn't make it as bad as racism, though. It's just a bunch of people being jerks on the internet. Which...uh...isn't exactly unusual. wink.gif Don't let them get to you.
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