Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: UK Smoking Ban
The Other Side forums - suitable for mature readers! > The Other Side forums > The Issues Forum
Pages: 1, 2
Sir Psycho Sexy
In a little over a week, England will follow the rest of the UK in banning smoking in all enclosed public spaces and work places. I don't imagine this is a particularly big issue for most people, but being that I work behind a bar in a pub where about 80-90% of the customers smoke, I'm kind of forced into defending the non-smokers perspective, what with being the only non-smoking member of staff. So it's been occupying my mind quite a bit.

I've heard some hilarious arguments against the ban, some of my favourites include the government losing out on the tax revenue they gain from cigarettes, igoring for a moment that they're NOT banning smoking out-right and the potential savings to the NHS on treating smoking related diseases.
Another one, raised by someone I work with (though I suspect someone else put this in his head), where he argues that it would infringe on the personal rights of smokers. Which right he's refering to, I'm not entirely sure of and I don't think he knows either, because when I asked him, he said he was sure there was probably one somewhere, though I'm not convinced that someone does have the right to inflict carcinogenic fumes on other people.
Possibly the one valid point that does get raised is that pubs could lose out on trade, though when you consider that, as stated in government pamphlets (or propagana), that up to 75% of the population don't smoke, there's surely the potential to make much more money, assuming that these people can be persuaded into pubs and clubs, which I'll agree is a rather large if.

Anyway, enough waffle. Any other points of view? Anyone else want to join me in pointing and laughing?
Pixelgoth
I'm currently a smoker and definitely all for the ban! I'm a social smoker and the less places I can smoke the less temptation there will be to keep smoking.

Smokers rights are no different from non smokers rights. I have a right to smoke the same way you have a right not to. I don't believe in inflicting my smoking on others however and if someone asks me, politely I might add, not to smoke near them then I will. However, if I'm on the street and I want to smoke I don't usually ask everyone I walk past whether they mind laugh.gif If I'm in a place where I can smoke (i.e. pub/cafe/restaurant) and I'm with a non smoker I will NEVER smoke when they are eating and always ask if they mind. Most people are fine about it as they appreciate my right to smoke and it's not like I'm blowing it in their faces biggrin.gif

I've been to the doctors and got my nicotine replacement and hopefully the smoking ban will help me with my attempt to quit. It's not easy and I hope that non smokers realise this.
Daria
I can't wait for it. I'll be able to go to gigs and not have to wash my hair when I come home because it smells like an ashtray! I can sit in a pub and not have my sinuses swell and become painful because of the smoke! I can get off trains at trainstations and not have people suddenly lighting up because they haven't had their fix for the last fifteen minutes and can't possibly wait the five more minutes that it would take to get out of the station.

I still think there should be more laws on people smoking in the presence of children, but this is a step towards a better breathing and smelling populace.
Forever Unknown
QUOTE (Daria @ Jun 22 2007, 12:01 PM) *
I can't wait for it. I'll be able to go to gigs and not have to wash my hair when I come home because it smells like an ashtray!


Well, yeah. But you're still gonna stink of other people's sweat, so you best shower anyway.

Anyway. As a smoker at first I was pretty put out by the smoking ban, but I've gotten used to it. No point fighting it, eh? Of course, I'm not looking forward to it at all, but it's prompted me to thinking I'll give up by the end of year.

What I do hate is people's attitudes to it, especially the "har! F**k you!" self-righteous attitude of the non-smoker, which I've seen a lot when this issue is discussed. Y'know. Like this:

QUOTE
Anyone else want to join me in pointing and laughing?


You get how rude that is, right?

My only issue with the smoking ban is that it eliminates choice for businesses. All pubs have had the choice to go non-smoking since forever, and have made the choice not to - because it would actually damage their revenue. It's all well and good saying that 75% of people don't smoke, but that's still 25% left who do and who may well feel pushed out of pubs. Why go somewhere, spend 20 on a few drinks and be forced to smoke outside when you can stay home, stay warm, and get plastered for less? I suspect that pubs will suffer as a result.

Also other points to bear in mind is that people will now be dropping their cigarette butts outside, and although this new law also imposes a fine on that, I don't think that will be heavily enforced. Anyway, that's more litter. On the news recently they bought up the point that more people outside in the winter will call on more patio heating, thus adding to global warming.

And as a final point. My step-grandparents are smokers, but they also run a B&B. They'll now be banned from smoking in their own home. Which is absolutely bloody ridiculous, really. I feel somewhat slighted that the law hasn't made any exceptions, despite the original assertions that it would. Private clubs and places like B&Bs should be exempt, and banning smoking in work vans (!) is also pretty silly.

Anyway. Yeah, there are downsides to it and I'm certainly sympathetic to that as a smoker, but ultimately I can see why they're doing it, so there we go.
Witless
I think the reason the smoking ban is coming in is because the government wanted to relieve pressure off the NHS.. and have done for a while. The reasons they gave for the smoking ban and the reasons they want it are different things.

I believe they'd find ways of curbing unhealthy eating too if they could think one up that people would accept.
Wookiee
QUOTE (Sir_Psycho_Sexy @ Jun 22 2007, 10:52 AM) *
I work behind a bar in a pub where about 80-90% of the customers smoke, I'm... the only non-smoking member of staff.


So, what you're saying is, despite being in the minority, you expect everyone to change to benefit you? And what exactly are you doing working in an environment like that if you find it so detrimental to your health?

QUOTE (Sir_Psycho_Sexy @ Jun 22 2007, 10:52 AM) *
I'm not convinced that someone does have the right to inflict carcinogenic fumes on other people.


Yes, I see your point here. Smokers only smoke to poison other people! It's true! I swear when Kim buys her fags, she's thinking, "I can't wait to inflict my smoke on Pete when we get home!" It's probably just as realistic to suggest that all those non-smokers are just hanging 'round the smokers to get a fix without having to spend a fiver on a pack of B&H.

QUOTE (Sir_Psycho_Sexy @ Jun 22 2007, 10:52 AM) *
Anyone else want to join me in pointing and laughing?


I will if you're going to carry on thinking you're clever.

QUOTE (Witless @ Jun 22 2007, 01:36 PM) *
I think the reason the smoking ban is coming in is because the government wanted to relieve pressure off the NHS.. and have done for a while. The reasons they gave for the smoking ban and the reasons they want it are different things.


That's just silly. Aside from the fact the NHS has wound up with a sizeable budget surplus this year (of course, they could have spent that money paying nurses properly, or actually improving standards of hygeine), banning smoking indoors will achieve bugger all to that end. As Paddy pointed out, they're not banning it outright, so smoking-related illnesses will still occur. Also, as you mentioned, obesity is on the rise, not to mention alcohol related illnesses and violence. Motoring accidents weigh heavily on the NHS, but no-one (apart from Ken Livingstone) is going to ban cars.

Besides, with the tax on fags, smokers pretty much pay for themselves on the NHS, and each other, and could probably support the beginnings of a healthcare system in the USA, and catapult Africa into the twenty-first century.
Witless
QUOTE (Wookiee @ Jun 22 2007, 01:36 PM) *
That's just silly. Aside from the fact the NHS has wound up with a sizeable budget surplus this year (of course, they could have spent that money paying nurses properly, or actually improving standards of hygeine), banning smoking indoors will achieve bugger all to that end. As Paddy pointed out, they're not banning it outright, so smoking-related illnesses will still occur. Also, as you mentioned, obesity is on the rise, not to mention alcohol related illnesses and violence. Motoring accidents weigh heavily on the NHS, but no-one (apart from Ken Livingstone) is going to ban cars.


Well like I said, they'd ban a lot of things if they could get away with it. But they can't but they can and are getting away with banning smoking. I always get suprised when people don't realise quite how underfunded the NHS is. It's one of the most underfunded health services in all Europe. It's budget is a fraction of most europeon companies by a long way (I know because I researched it after having to deal with 2 family members in long term care).

Relieving pressure off the NHS is and has been a goal of the government's for a long time. Just it's rather hard to do. Smoking is still the biggest premature killer in the UK (though obesity is catching up). Takes up more beds, and costs more nhs money than anything else except old age.. and as far as I'm aware, it's rather hard to ban people getting old.
Pixelgoth
I heard a rumour that they weren't going to enforce this ban properly for the first few months. Has anyone else heard this??
Wookiee
QUOTE (Witless @ Jun 22 2007, 01:52 PM) *
as far as I'm aware, it's rather hard to ban people getting old.


Unless you encourage more smoking, drinking and eating chips.

At any rate, banning things simply is not a solution. It's barely even a stop-gap measure.
Daria
QUOTE
Well, yeah. But you're still gonna stink of other people's sweat, so you best shower anyway.

Depends what kind of gig it is... and how disgusting I am feeling tongue.gif


The whole "smokers are a drag to the NHS" thing is not just smokers themselves, but people who get affected by the secondary smoke. Hence the whole ban in public areas. FU's example of the B&B does seem a bit ridiculous as it isn't really a public place. I think there should be an exemption of certain places, such as hotels/ B&Bs and other places you choose to go and stay at. Yeah, I know you choose to go to a pub or a bar, but you might just as well go in one when there are no smokers, and then a smoker comes along, rendering you with two options- get up and leave, or stick out the smoke. If B&Bs advertised that it was either Smoking or Non-Smoking then you could know before you stay there.

I do think the ban is an excellent move forward, but as I said above, I think more should be done to stop children being in the presence of smoke, rather than adults who can deal with it by leaving the premises.
Phyllis
QUOTE (Daria @ Jun 22 2007, 12:01 PM) *
I can get off trains at trainstations and not have people suddenly lighting up because they haven't had their fix for the last fifteen minutes and can't possibly wait the five more minutes that it would take to get out of the station.

I don't know if I'd count on that one. Derby station (and all other Midland Mainline stations, for that matter) has been a non-smoking station since...hmm..January? Possibly longer than that. I can't remember/can't be bothered to look it up. Doesn't stop people from smoking on the platforms, even though the ENTIRE station is non-smoking. It's generally not enforced very well. I'm not really convinced that will change after the ban, to be honest.

I don't really have strong feelings one way or the other about the ban. It will obviously benefit me, because I'm a non-smoker and don't like being around smoke...but beyond that I'm sorry to say that I'm just not that interested in it. Maybe because I've sort of done all this before and saw that it worked out okay. Oregon has a partial smoke ban -- you can smoke in bars, but not in restaurants. I think that hotels are still allowed to have smoking rooms, though. Everyone there seemed to transition pretty well, but that might be because it's only a partial ban. California has a stricter ban, though, and I'm pretty sure that bars there are still doing the same amount of business as before.
Daria
I'm the kind of person who will point out a No-Smoking sign to a smoker and do so until they put out their fag, I'm afraid. I never, ever get people to put it out if they are not in a non-smoking area, only if there are signs around them.
Mata
QUOTE (Wookiee @ Jun 22 2007, 01:36 PM) *
So, what you're saying is, despite being in the minority, you expect everyone to change to benefit you? And what exactly are you doing working in an environment like that if you find it so detrimental to your health?

If you fancy being argumentative and slightly pedantic (which you clearly do), here's a couple of possible answers:

Why should he expect them to change? Because they are poisoning him, or how about because it'll be the law, or perhaps the key is really in the second part of your question, 'you expect everyone to change to benefit you'. I could have sworn that encouraging people to stop smoking is actually a good thing. Not only would the people enjoy better health, they wouldn't get twitchy when they haven't smoked for a few hours, but they would also have more money.

What's he doing working in that environment? How about... Working? Y'know, that thing that people do to earn money. If he enjoys working down a mine but the floor was constantly flooding then it would be resonable for him to expect that the conditions were improved by the management getting in a decent pump. Maybe some, or even most, of the miners currently enjoy having wet ankles, but they may find that they enjoy having dry feet even more. He works in a bar, it's made less pleasant by a preventable issue, and he is looking forward to it changing.

I do appreciate that there are many reasons that people smoke, stress-relief being probably the best one; however, I doubt that when people are settling down in a pub for an evening that it is a situation that could often be described as stressful.

As you can probably gather, I'm in favour of this move, although FU's example of the B&B is an eye-opener. That's a very tough situation - it's a public space (albeit one that is hired), but it's also a private space. My neighbours across the hall sometimes smoke with their front door open and it makes our flat smell, so I can see why the government wants to prevent all smoking in B&Bs, but in that example it really does seem to have infringed too far on the rights of an individual in their own home.

As a side-note, previous places to have put this law through have reported that businesses have continued to do very well, some even improving through non-smokers going out more often.
Snugglebum the Destroyer
QUOTE
I do appreciate that there are many reasons that people smoke, stress-relief being probably the best one;


Although, unless I'm talking shite which is quite likely - hasn't it been proven that smokers are actually more stressed than non smokers due to the whole quick fix and then inevitable crave 20 minutes later?

I smoke. Lots. The fundamental smoker in me is ranting and raving about the ban. There are lots of infringment of human rights issues whizzung around.

However, the ban itself doesn't actually bother me at all. As long as somewhere is set aside for smokers to go, which I understand pubs and such are obliged to provide, I'm quite happy. I tend to be quite considerate of non smokers anyway so it seems courteous really.
Pixelgoth
QUOTE (Snugglebum the Destroyer @ Jun 22 2007, 07:25 PM) *
QUOTE
I do appreciate that there are many reasons that people smoke, stress-relief being probably the best one;


Although, unless I'm talking shite which is quite likely - hasn't it been proven that smokers are actually more stressed than non smokers due to the whole quick fix and then inevitable crave 20 minutes later?

I smoke. Lots. The fundamental smoker in me is ranting and raving about the ban. There are lots of infringment of human rights issues whizzung around.

However, the ban itself doesn't actually bother me at all. As long as somewhere is set aside for smokers to go, which I understand pubs and such are obliged to provide, I'm quite happy. I tend to be quite considerate of non smokers anyway so it seems courteous really.


Oooorrrr you could try giving up? Just a question, have you considered it? I'm going to as I just think now it's going to be the best time for me. I am quite horrified at the thought of having a million and one smokers giving up that day! Can you imagine the stress that'll cause? laugh.gif
Snugglebum the Destroyer
Hehehe - I can imagine a million newly non smokers killing their bosses. smile.gif

I tried to give up after my Dad popped his clogs last year. I lasted 4 days before having a huge barney with the other half and away I went. I was feeling really good as well. I was using the inhalator which makes you look a bit of a dick but mimics the act of smoking. I know that my smoking is more habitual over addictive so it probably would have worked if I wasn't such a wuss. smile.gif

I would like to give up some day but I just have so much going on at the moment that I just don't have the heart to put something else on my plate. Apart from which - I'm prone to getting a little thick about the waist and the very sad fact is that I don't want to put weight on.
Forever Unknown
Oh, bums. The following post was made by Wookiee disguised as Forever Unknown.

QUOTE (Mata @ Jun 22 2007, 06:54 PM) *
QUOTE (Wookiee @ Jun 22 2007, 01:36 PM) *
So, what you're saying is, despite being in the minority, you expect everyone to change to benefit you? And what exactly are you doing working in an environment like that if you find it so detrimental to your health?

If you fancy being argumentative and slightly pedantic (which you clearly do), here's a couple of possible answers:

Why should he expect them to change? Because they are poisoning him, or how about because it'll be the law, or perhaps the key is really in the second part of your question, 'you expect everyone to change to benefit you'. I could have sworn that encouraging people to stop smoking is actually a good thing. Not only would the people enjoy better health, they wouldn't get twitchy when they haven't smoked for a few hours, but they would also have more money.

What's he doing working in that environment? How about... Working? Y'know, that thing that people do to earn money... He works in a bar, it's made less pleasant by a preventable issue, and he is looking forward to it changing.


Oh, I'm always for being argumentative!

I'm sure the pub's clientele and staff were smokers before Paddy started working there. I'm sure it came as no surprise to him that the pub was full of smokers. I'm sure there are jobs he could do that don't involve him being surrounded by cigarette smoke, even if it's just working in one of the many non-smoking pubs already in existence.

Encouraging people to stop drinking is probably a good thing. Admitting the National Curriculum is f*&@ed and re-evaluating the state of education in this country is surely a very good thing. I'm also pretty sure encouraging people to exercise the right to make their own decisions is a good thing, and not any of this nanny state crap. So far businesses have had a right to decide for themselves whether to operate a non-smoking policy or not, and that seems perfectly sensible to me.

I'm actually not a smoker, but I still think this law is utterly ridiculous. It's a small, petty issue that's been absurdly inflated; wasting valuable time in government on national and local levels, resources (have you seen the information packs? Not to mention the TV ads), and serving as a massive distraction as the media froths about it and the public w&#king on in newspaper letters columns and on internet forums.

... oh.
Mata
QUOTE (Wookiee @ Jun 22 2007, 01:36 PM) *
I'm also pretty sure encouraging people to exercise the right to make their own decisions is a good thing, and not any of this nanny state crap. So far businesses have had a right to decide for themselves whether to operate a non-smoking policy or not, and that seems perfectly sensible to me.

Fair point about the nanny state, but we've had the choice for ages and we're still killing ourselves. Businesses are afraid of change, especially in such an old trade as pubs, so they will always play with the devil they know. If there's something simple that the government can do to improve the lives of millions of people (in the long run) then it seems sensible that they do it.
Calantyr
The main argument for a smoking ban in public places like bars has been workers rights. Every employer has to, by law, provide as safe as possible working environment. That means builders wear hard hats, window cleaners get harnesses, and road workers get highly visible clothing. Why should those who work in bars be exempt from this?

The fact is that not everyone can get the choice of where they work. If you are poor, uneducated, etc, bar work (for example) may be the only job you can get. And there's a hell of a lot more people than available jobs... These are also the types of people who generally can't afford to deal with serious lung-related illnesses if they end up with them.

That's why I tend to support the ban. Yeah it's annoying for smokers and that's a pain, but nowhere is it said that smokers have a right to poison people.

From what I understand it's actually pretty easy to get around this ban anyway. Make the bar a private club. Simply make everyone sign up as a member the first time they go there, and ID themselves every night thereafter. A place I'm a regular does this pretty easy with a fingerprint detector.... not sure what the staff feel about it though.
Wookiee
QUOTE (Mata @ Jun 22 2007, 11:36 PM) *
Fair point about the nanny state, but we've had the choice for ages and we're still killing ourselves.


The important thing is not the choice we make, but the fact we're allowed to make it.
Forever Unknown
QUOTE (Calantyr @ Jun 23 2007, 12:27 AM) *
If you are poor, uneducated, etc, bar work (for example) may be the only job you can get.


What's that you're saying about Paddy?

QUOTE
From what I understand it's actually pretty easy to get around this ban anyway. Make the bar a private club. Simply make everyone sign up as a member the first time they go there, and ID themselves every night thereafter. A place I'm a regular does this pretty easy with a fingerprint detector.... not sure what the staff feel about it though.


'Fraid not. Private clubs aren't exempt from the ban, although they were originally going to be. The club my parents attend in Winchester is a private club with paid membership, and they're still having to ban it. It's all workplaces - a complete blanket ban.
trunks_girl26
QUOTE (candice @ Jun 22 2007, 12:38 PM) *
Everyone there seemed to transition pretty well, but that might be because it's only a partial ban. California has a stricter ban, though, and I'm pretty sure that bars there are still doing the same amount of business as before.


What I find somewhat amusing is that many bars in the NY area have been getting more business since the ban came about, when the biggest argument against the bad was the loss of income they would have.



QUOTE (Snugglebum the Destroyer @ Jun 22 2007, 02:25 PM) *
QUOTE
I do appreciate that there are many reasons that people smoke, stress-relief being probably the best one;


Although, unless I'm talking shite which is quite likely - hasn't it been proven that smokers are actually more stressed than non smokers due to the whole quick fix and then inevitable crave 20 minutes later?


Actually, nicotine is a chemical that simulates all the biological responses of stress release (ie: non-restricted blood flow, reduced heart rate, etc.)- which is why it's so addicting. It's not that the smoker is physically more stressed when they want a cig, it's that they're mentally stressed, much like a person is more mentally addicted than physically addicted to them. (Sorry if this doesn't make sense, it's 1:45am here and I'm a bit tired happy.gif; ).
Sir Psycho Sexy
QUOTE (Wookiee @ Jun 22 2007, 01:36 PM) *
QUOTE (Sir_Psycho_Sexy @ Jun 22 2007, 10:52 AM) *

I work behind a bar in a pub where about 80-90% of the customers smoke, I'm... the only non-smoking member of staff.


So, what you're saying is, despite being in the minority, you expect everyone to change to benefit you? And what exactly are you doing working in an environment like that if you find it so detrimental to your health?



No, that's not what I'm saying. Your interpretive skills are lacking.


Would you like to try again?
Wookiee
No, I'm happy judging you. Thanks, though!

smile.gif!
Sir Psycho Sexy
Yay! happy.gif
Wytukaze
Semi-aside, laws. There's a theory (and I don't mean it's tentative) that the whole point of laws is to, firstly, protect (and enshrine or whatever) the rights of each and every citizen and, secondly, to prevent others from infringing on the rights of each and every citizen. Now, of course, this is mitigated by the fact you have to, essentially, protect the rights of the largest amount of citizens and so on.

This smoking ban thing? To me, it seems like a canonical example of that. You have the right to not have to breathe in damaging chemicals wherever you go (and don't get me started on effing cars here) and I do not have the right to put those damaging chemicals into your immediate area, forcing you to breathe them in. On the other hand, I have the right to breathe in damaging chemicals in privacy, to an extent. If I become a burden on the NHS, it would be logical here to prevent me from smoking because I am becoming a de facto burden on others (due to how our health system works). That, however, is Tricky Business.

To be quite honest, I think the ban should not be a blanket ban; rather, it should be opt-out as opposed to opt-in (as it is now). That is, right now, you have to assert that people are not allowed to smoke, and that's harder to enforce because they are, by default, allowed to smoke wherever they feel like. If the default was that they are not allowed to smoke, and you could opt out of that ("hey look, guys, you can smoke here"), we have a situation where the rights of the majority are being maintained and there will be, with any luck, fewer places they cannot go if they do not want to inhale smoke.
Witless
My guess would be that in an opt out situation. Everyone that didn't opt out would lose business.

I have smoker friends.. and I can bet they would quite happily just go out and leave me, if I decided not to go to smoker bars with them if the choice was between smoker bars and non smoker bars.

Even now, wetherspoons has smoking and non smoking sections, and a good lot of the people that sit in smoking sections are non-smokers that just want to spend time with their friends. In an opt out situation, any bars that stuck to not smoking would just lose out to bars that choose to allow smoking.

In my personal opinion if bars could choose whether to be smoking bars or non smoking bars. Non-smoking bars would mostly convert to smoking bars or close because they just lose too much business. Not in every case obviously, but for the most part I'd be willing to say bars with a decent amount of local competition would just lose out if their competitors stayed smoking and they went non smoking.

I think that's the thinking behind the people behind the blanket ban as well. A volentary system just wouldn't hold up well. Even non smokers would enevitably be dragged along to smokers bars with smoking friends.
I suppose you could say that, "if non-smoking bars fail when we have a choice between the two, isn't that a sign that it's unnatural to stop smoking in places they go to relax and be with friends?"

Probably yes, but to be honest I don't care too much because I don't like my clothes smelling like crap everytime my friends want a cig, so I'm entitled to be happy about the ban.
Daria
I think Sheesha bars should be exempt from the law. The main reason being, they are bars SPECIFICALLY for smoking. Any non smoker complaining of smoke whilst in one would just be stupid.
elphaba2
^ Sheesha = Hookah?

They've had the ban in NYC since 2003, and we've still got tons of those. No worries.

Though actually, I went to a hookah place in the Village with a group of friends last fall, and one of em turned out to be a passionate anti-smoker--telling us about lung disease, questioning the hygiene, moaning about his clothes. While it seems dumb, he got caught in the same sort of situation that Witless is talking about--non-smoking friends going along for "smoking activities", as it were. He didn't want to miss out on getting together with the rest of us, even though he wholeheartedly disapproves of everything we were doing at the time.
Daria
Ja. Sheesha is the cat-flavoured stuff they put in Hookahs.

Apparently all of the hookah bars are going to have to stop serving sheesha. Which is lame, as then they may close down and most of them do the most delicious Afghan and North African tastysnacks.
Pixelgoth
Only hours to go before England goes smoke free. Eeek sad.gif I've only got four cigs left after the pub tonight so once they've gone I'm on my inhalator and giving up. I'm not sure it's the right time what with the stress of my bro and dissertation but if I don't do it now I'll always find an excuse. Plus I can but try and if it's not the right time then I'll do it when it is. I should be ok with my nicotene replacement therapy but we'll see

*crosses now-smoke-free fingers*
Mata
To look at it from the other side, if you quit now with all this other stuff going on then you know you've quit properly! Lots of smokers stop while they're feeling okay, then use a slight change of circumstances as a justification for starting again.

I'm not exactly anti-smoking (although I do think it's expensive, daft, and unpleasant for surrounding non-smokers), I'm more against the lies that people tell themselves about their smoking. I've got a friend in Winchester who says 'I'm addicted to smoking, it's poisoning me, and costs loads, but I also enjoy it so I want to keep doing it' and that's fine. He knows his situation and he's not in denial of it. This is something that nearly everyone does about something in their life, but smokers seem to be a particularly big example of it.
Forever Unknown
QUOTE (Mata @ Jul 1 2007, 01:27 PM) *
I'm more against the lies that people tell themselves about their smoking. I've got a friend in Winchester who says 'I'm addicted to smoking, it's poisoning me, and costs loads, but I also enjoy it so I want to keep doing it' and that's fine.


That's rubbish. I don't know any smoker who doesn't think like that - who lie to themselves about the effect and damage it does. We all know it's doing us terrible damage! How could we not? It's in our face 24/7 after all.

There's no smoker who is ignorant of what smoking does to body. Channel 4 recently had a documentary about a child of 13 who'd been smoking since he was nine, and even he knew that he was daily inhaling poison.
Pixelgoth
QUOTE (Forever Unknown @ Jul 1 2007, 09:46 PM) *
QUOTE (Mata @ Jul 1 2007, 01:27 PM) *
I'm more against the lies that people tell themselves about their smoking. I've got a friend in Winchester who says 'I'm addicted to smoking, it's poisoning me, and costs loads, but I also enjoy it so I want to keep doing it' and that's fine.


That's rubbish. I don't know any smoker who doesn't think like that - who lie to themselves about the effect and damage it does. We all know it's doing us terrible damage! How could we not? It's in our face 24/7 after all.

There's no smoker who is ignorant of what smoking does to body. Channel 4 recently had a documentary about a child of 13 who'd been smoking since he was nine, and even he knew that he was daily inhaling poison.


Of course. You'd have to be pretty dumb not to realise it kills you. The massive warnings on the packs are evidence enough. I know it kills, it stinks, it's expensive, it's not nice but well I'm addicted....plus it's cool and hard laugh.gif Seriously tho I've just had my last fag and I'm looking forward to a nice non-smoking life but I know it won't be easy.
Forever Unknown
Good luck, fo' realz. I plan to give up in November and I'm terrified - it's become a bit of a crutch, I suppose.. Are you using supplements (i.e. Nicorette) or anything?

July is going to be a month of miserable ex-smoking bastards.
Pixelgoth
QUOTE (Forever Unknown @ Jul 2 2007, 01:32 AM) *
Good luck, fo' realz. I plan to give up in November and I'm terrified - it's become a bit of a crutch, I suppose.. Are you using supplements (i.e. Nicorette) or anything?

July is going to be a month of miserable ex-smoking bastards.


Yeah the inhalator mainly and willpower. I did pick totally the wrong time to give up Thread about bro sad.gif Ah well, it's now or never.
Mata
It's not about knowledge - everyone knows that smoking is bad for them. It's people who are constantly saying that they're quitting without ever actually making any effort who frustrate me. I wish people would either say 'yes, I'm addicted and I have no intention of doing anything about it at the moment' or 'I'm quitting'.

I know it's not easy to quit addictions, I had a close call with alcohol about ten years ago, but I just find it frustrating when people say they are going to act in one way then act in another. This isn't a major bug, which it probably sounds like when read like this, and it's not isolated to smokers, it's just one of those things that peeves me. I'm not sure if it even makes much sense to be frustrated by it, it's only human after all!
Pixelgoth
QUOTE (Mata @ Jul 2 2007, 01:56 PM) *
It's not about knowledge - everyone knows that smoking is bad for them. It's people who are constantly saying that they're quitting without ever actually making any effort who frustrate me. I wish people would either say 'yes, I'm addicted and I have no intention of doing anything about it at the moment' or 'I'm quitting'.

I know it's not easy to quit addictions, I had a close call with alcohol about ten years ago, but I just find it frustrating when people say they are going to act in one way then act in another. This isn't a major bug, which it probably sounds like when read like this, and it's not isolated to smokers, it's just one of those things that peeves me. I'm not sure if it even makes much sense to be frustrated by it, it's only human after all!


I agree. Don't say you're gonna do something and then not do it. If you have not intention of doing something why say you'll do it! Always annoys me too dry.gif

I had a roll up yesterday but considering the news from my bro and another pretty unpleasant thing that happened I deserved just one. I haven't smoked today and I'm chewing on my plastic inhalator (which just looks like a tampon applicator) like there's no tomorrow!
Snugglebum the Destroyer
Hahaha - I noticed the tampon similarity when I tried it. It's interesting because (for the whole 4 days!) I chewed the hell out of the inhaltor.
Mata
QUOTE (Snugglebum the Destroyer @ Jul 3 2007, 09:31 PM) *
Hahaha - I noticed the tampon similarity when I tried it.

For a moment I really thought that you meant you'd tried using one as a tampon.

Carry on. Nothing to see here. Just me being a bit dim. biggrin.gif
Pixelgoth
QUOTE (Mata @ Jul 3 2007, 10:13 PM) *
QUOTE (Snugglebum the Destroyer @ Jul 3 2007, 09:31 PM) *
Hahaha - I noticed the tampon similarity when I tried it.

For a moment I really thought that you meant you'd tried using one as a tampon.

Carry on. Nothing to see here. Just me being a bit dim. biggrin.gif


*looks at inhalator*

*looks at Mata*

*looks back at inhalator*

Euw! *barf*
Forever Unknown
QUOTE (Pixiegoth @ Jul 3 2007, 08:36 PM) *
I agree. Don't say you're gonna do something and then not do it. If you have not intention of doing something why say you'll do it! Always annoys me too dry.gif

I had a roll up yesterday but considering the news from my bro and another pretty unpleasant thing that happened I deserved just one.


Oh, look! Hypocrisy!
Wookiee
QUOTE (Pixiegoth @ Jul 3 2007, 08:36 PM) *
I agree. Don't say you're gonna do something and then not do it.

I had a roll up yesterday


Daria
About the harm it's doing to you thing- almost all smokers will know it is bad for them, but a lot of them won't know that it only takes one cigarette after giving up for a while to kill the cillia in your throat again.
Pixelgoth
QUOTE (Forever Unknown @ Jul 4 2007, 04:17 AM) *
QUOTE (Pixiegoth @ Jul 3 2007, 08:36 PM) *
I agree. Don't say you're gonna do something and then not do it. If you have not intention of doing something why say you'll do it! Always annoys me too dry.gif

I had a roll up yesterday but considering the news from my bro and another pretty unpleasant thing that happened I deserved just one.


Oh, look! Hypocrisy!


Oh look! Someone who doesn't read the entire post! Just because I have one roll up it doesn't mean I'm not giving up. You don't know how I'm giving up. Maybe I'm cutting down first? As it turns out I've not had a cigarette since then and have no intention of dong so but as a smoker you should know how hard it is and I'm not saying I have 100% willpower. At no point did I say I wouldn't make a mistake or slip.

Having said all that I don't see why I should justify myself and you could have cut me some slack considering the situation with my brother click hereand my recent ex boyfriend but hey ho. Whatever.

QUOTE (Wookiee @ Jul 4 2007, 04:20 AM) *
QUOTE (Pixiegoth @ Jul 3 2007, 08:36 PM) *

I agree. Don't say you're gonna do something and then not do it.

I had a roll up yesterday





Funny but click here and read my post
Wookiee
Oh, hey, giving a crap isn't my strong point. Click here and here and read my posts!
Pixelgoth
QUOTE (Wookiee @ Jul 4 2007, 03:25 PM) *
Oh, hey, giving a crap isn't my strong point. Click here and here and read my posts!


Why do you respond then? If you don't give a crap don't add anything. You must give enough of a crap to make the comment in the first place eh?
Forever Unknown
I'm gonna go with "for poops and giggles".
Pixelgoth
QUOTE (Forever Unknown @ Jul 4 2007, 04:37 PM) *
I'm gonna go with "for poops and giggles".


You or him? It's quite sad to mock someone when their brother might be lying in hospital with cancer. Ah well, whatever, bigger more important things/people to worry about quite frankly.
MistressAlti
It is VERY tough to quit smoking - I've known both friends and family alike who have tried for years to quit. They know it's bad and they'd like to quit, but they can't. It's the triple threat of smoking reasons for them - a habit, a crutch, and an addiction. Makes it damn near impossible to quit without something very serious forcing your hand.

I also know friends and family who quit cold turkey with minimal trouble. Probably because they were missing one of those reasons somewhere.

My mother and stepfather once tried to quit smoking together. My mother failed, because her smoking is really somewhat indicative of other issues in her life - she's worried, depressed and lacks coping strategies for her life, so anytime anything remotely stressful happens, she falls off the wagon and lights up again, despite all the health issues she knows she's causing herself. My stepfather just stopped one day and, after a few days of nicotine leaving his system, never thought or worried about it again - mostly because he didn't need it for anything. It was just a habit he'd picked up as a teenager to look cool.

Point of the story is? Don't pick on people because they can't quit. For a lot of people, quitting smoking is more work than just realizing it's bad for you and putting out the cigarette.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.