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monkey_called_narth
Aliright so, I'm a communist. For those that didn't know that, and apparently this has cause for a mild uproar in my family. One which I will explain...

Now.

Ryan took a picture of our daughter. I thought it was funny as hell.

-apparently this link isn't going to work, I'll fix it tommorow-

Anyway, this picture caused quite an uproar with a couple members of my family. Mostly the , "how could you take that picture" and "what if people see that" kind of uproar. One person started a whole argument about how I planned on raising MY daughter. This isn't what I wanted to discuss. This is just a prelimarary opening to the disscussion topic.

How do you feel people should raise their children? In reflection of their own belifes?
Why should anyone have the right to doubt your parenting skill if they dissagree with one of said belifes?
Should raising a child in a communist house hold be treated any diffrently then raising them in a chiristian/other biased house hold?

Please keep in mind that the questions above are the disscusion topic.
cheese is funny
As far as political and religious affiliation go, I personally believe of not passing any of it on to the children being raised, they should be born with a clean slate with no biases. Let them figure the world out, what religion, if any is right, what political belief structure they find to be ideal and grow up to be their own person. I dont want my child to be named "Jon's son", I want my child to be my child and no one else, not a reflection of me and what I believe, nor their mother.



As for disagreeing with your parenting skills because you believe different things, unless you believe in manhandling babies in a horrid manner, I dont think you being communist (or any other political party) has anything to do with parenting skills.

But thats just me. I dont have kids, nor do I plan on having any for a grand while.
Fish Head
While I disagree with political and religous beliefs that are not my own, I feel that parents should be able to raise them with whatever bias they feel. Yes, that would even incude racist beliefs.

I feel this way because although I've been raised Protestant, I am a devout Catholic. Irony, no? And think about the way you've been raised. Your parents are most obviously not Communist, and yet you are. The way a parent raises their kid has only about half of what affects them as adults. Once a kid reaches their teen years, they begin to think for themselves and question everything. Regardless of how you raise her, your daughter will one day question everything you have taught her and find her own truths. She'll do it especially strongly if she is intelligent and you've raised her with an open mind (which I personally hope you will.)

Ultimately, as long as you let your daughter make decisions for herself open reaching adulthood and political and spiritual sef awareness, I don't think there is any problem with raising her communist.
elphaba2
I just had this conversation a couple days ago, actually--about raising veggie babies, though. If a parents eat a vegetarian diet, should they cook meat for their child? What if the child asks for it? How similar/different is that to raising a kid with no candy?

My friends and I put up a pretty lively debate about this--I was surprised to realize that I would raise a kid the way that I live my life, despite the fact that I live it very differently from how my father lives his, and completely opposite to my mother's style. But through the experience of seeing how they lived, I figured out how I wanted to live. I see parents all the time who seek to indulge their kids by allowing them whatever they want--well, honestly speaking, children (and I include my own age group in this) don't make very good decisions for themselves. Yet I realize that with time, children need to transition from making very few decisions for themselves to many more. I just think that the transition should probably occur in the early teens rather than at, say, six years old. There's a woman who lives near me who asks her six-year-old everything that he wants to do, as in What do you want for dinner tonight?, Where should we vacation next summer?, What color car should we buy? I understand the value of making your child feel involved, but the poor kid is a little overwhelmed. Six years old and he's running the family!

Frankly, parenting skills have nothing to do with personal beliefs. Unless you believe in endangering children, skill as a parent just has to do with clarity, straightforwardness and making sure your kid is happy. Bad parents are evasive, arbitrary and cruel. I sincerely doubt you or your Ryan-man are at all like that, communist or not. Honestly, I think Communist beliefs go great with child-rearing--it's all about making things equitable and fairly divided. Good way to teach your kid to share smile.gif
I_am_the_best
I don't think that political beliefs really play a part in parenting skills. At all. Or at least, they shouldn't. But with religious beliefs, since parents believe the religion is true, surely they'll teach it to the child. The child is going to be involved in household ceremonies (eg shabbat), and when they are a baby will most likely have things done to it since they don't have a choice (christened, circumcised...). Besides, even if you don't intend to, children are impressionable, and will probably pick up some of your beliefs anyway. For example, I've grown up to be racist against arabs and also with the dream of communism actually working from my mother.

I don't think you can really criticise your parenting skills for being communist, unless you intend to distribute household chores equally with the baby included or something. I really can't see how the fact that you're communist will affect the baby. Whatever your beliefs, as long as they're not enforced upon the baby to a huge extent, then I can't criticise. But when it gets to the point of, for example, an arab parent teaching the child about the evil of Israelis, then that's just brainwashing and not a suitable upbringing for the child.

Parents need to realise that although a child is born from them, it is essentially its own person, and is entitled to its own opinions and beliefs. Nonetheless, I would still be disappointed in my child if they did something against what I believe and what I want them to do, like converted to Islam or not be interested in music. So perhaps that will make me a bad parent.
leopold
I'm not sure of whether any of you guys are parents or not (except you, Narth, I know you're a mummy now) but it all sounds a bit theoretical, so I'm going to assume you aren't.

Once you actually have kids, all the theory goes out of the window. As much as you try not to engender your own parents' attitudes or impress your own morality on them, you do find yourself doing it and you do end up disappointed sometimes when the little ones ultimately choose something contrary to what you want from them.

But, as Narth said, this isn't about parental ability, it's about raising children in a "non-standard" environment.

This, theoretically, is all about one basic tenet: There's a huge gulf between raising a child within your environment and indoctrinating your child into a way of life. As long as you don't chastise your child for questioning elements of your lifestyle, or force them to live a certain way, then that's fine.

By all means, raise your child in a Communist family. It's your right to live your life your way, and as long as nobody is being endangered then it's a non-issue. As far as your family go, the best thing to do is explain your choice to them, answer their questions honestly and calmly, and above all keep a cool head. if your parents see that you've made your choice and you can explain it rationally like an adult, they should come around.

However, on the day your daughter questions the lifestyle you have chosen, you must be prepared to be open about it and discuss your viewpoints as you did with your own parents. And if your daughter decides she wants to be a capitalist, Buddhist, fascist or whatever, then accept her position when she explains it to you. If your parents didn't do this for you, imagine how you felt then and apply this feeling to your child - chances are, she'll feel just as upset, angry and rejected as you did.

Like I say, it's easier said than done, but in the long run it's better to be open than dogmatic.
Roadkillgerbil
Although I've never had children (and quite probably never will), I have spent a great deal of time thinking about the approach I would take, particularly in the case of my brothers. The eldest is 11 years younger than me and I took a great deal of the childcare for the first 7 or 8 years. Basically until I moved out. I had a number of fundamental disagreements with the way my parents were raising the boys.

I view a major responsibility of any parent to be to enable a child to be independent. Not necessarily able to survive alone in the wilderness at age 3, but a parent needs to encourage children to learn the skills which will allow them to function when the parent is not around. For me, it includes things like teaching the child strategies for dealing with bullies where possible, rather than going to the school to complain as a first resort.

This also relates to a bringing up a child in a non-standard household. In order for a child to become independent, they would have to be able to think for themselves. Used correctly, a non-standard family or political structure can assist with this. I most certainly do not have a 'normal' life or set of attitudes but I do not think that this would be anything other than an advantage to child. I would hope to use it to explain the reasons I made the choices I have, which other choices are available and why someone might choose to take those other routes.

I do know people who have had their children removed from them due to their religious beliefs. They are practicing pagans and the social services have decided that this is synonymous with child abuse/devil worship and have, therefore, removed their children from their care. In one case, the girl was told whilst she was pregnant that they were planning to take the child off her as soon as she'd given birth!!! To my mind, this interference is abhorrent. I don't believe that the state should have this power. I don't actually believe that this would stand up in court if the person concerned could have afforded a top lawyer, but this sort of thing rarely happens to those who are that well off.

In answer to the specific questions then:
1. I would argue that a parent should raise a child to question everything. This is one of my central beliefs about life though, so maybe I am saying that they should be raised according to one’s beliefs. I think this might get circular. blink.gif

2. People have the right to doubt your skill at anything for any reason at all, or even for no reason. They just don't have the right to do anything about it. They can think what they like, but they have no right to be listened to or have their opinions carry any weight at all. And you have the right to be pissed off at them for telling you about their opinions of your skills.

3. No. There should be no difference at all between raising a child in a Christian household and raising them in a communist household (is that supposed to be capitalised? I never worked that one out), or indeed a polyamorous household, or a bisexual household, or a pagan one, or, indeed, one in which all the family are members of the Conservative party. The same rights and responsibilities apply.

Also, I should make it clear that when I'm talking about a child being independent, I'm not advocating the, kind of situation that elphaba2 described, with the child making all the decisions for the family. Young children are not just smaller adults and should not be treated as such. One important thing to learn is that there are some decisions that have nothing to do with you and that you don't get a say in those. What colour car the family has would fall into that category for me. I also wouldn't say that there should be a distinct point at which a child goes from making very few decisions to making many. The ability to make a decision should be linked to taking responsibility for the outcome and should increase gradually throughout life. Taking the example of “What should we have for dinner”, I would advocate linking that with a responsibility to cook. So a 9 year old could be told that they cook on Tuesdays (with assistance where needed, obviously) but that they get to choose the menu (within reason). If they make an unhealthy choice, talk through with them why that’s not a good idea every week, but sometimes it can be allowed. Rights should be linked in to responsibilities.

It might be worth noting here that I really do believe in children having chores. I had to do half of the cleaning of the house from about 9, as well as all my own laundry, some of the cooking and almost all the tea-making. My brothers (15 and 14) don’t have chores yet (except keeping their rooms clean-ish). I firmly believe that I got the better end of that deal. I keep a clean and tidy home and was able to fend for myself from very early on. They aren’t trusted to boil the kettle (possibly rightly so). It all comes down (for me) to equipping a child for life.
vicrawr
So when do we get to see the picture that started this all?
monkey_called_narth


Now.

I felt the need to make a new post for it, cause well... there were alot of replies.

I will also add my own thoughts here next time I'm about, but at the moment... I only have five min. and I need to head along. My post will take longer then five min. to write.

Well, soon to be added: my thoughts.
sirdudly
Love her. Feed her. Care for her. Talk to her. Respect her thoughts, desires, and dreams. Teach her to love others. Oh, and give her a knife at 8 and let her play with fire, within reason. These are the small sort of universal details that are vital to parenting, and it doesn't matter if they come from the communist, capitalist, chinaman or congressman.
Sir Psycho Sexy
Hehehe....communism...
Doctor Doom
Replacing "lesbian" with "communist" doesn't make a decade old gag any funnier, sorry to say.

However, I'm intrigued by the notion of raising a communist baby! I'm sure there are any number of Permanent Revolution colouring books, and maybe you can get your hands on a copy of Ladybird's My First Appeal to the Toiling, Oppressed and Exhausted Peoples of Europe. Tickle-me Karl Marx is bound to be a Christmas must-have!

I'm totally rooting for the little fleshloaf in her quest to seize social, political and economic control from the bourgeoisie and distribute it fairly amongst the proles and the peasants.
monkey_called_narth
You know, I never got around to posting myopinoin on this. So, today whists the libbit sleeps I shall.

So, I think I have the right to raise my daughter Liberty in any way that I so chose, as long as her basic, and even advanced needs are met.

Raising of Liberty: the daily take.
5. Wake up, eat, go back to sleep.
7. wake up eat, play with grandpa befor he goes to work.
8. Play with daddy befor he goes to work.
9. Breakfast of breastmilk and ceral. Then play with mommy.
11. Mommy and me nap.
12-1. wake up, eat, swing.
2. By now swing time is over, and she eats again.
3. floor time.
4. Eat, and nap.
5. Bounce time (the hour for bounce) then swing while mommy make supper.
6. story time with daddy.
7. bath in the duck tub.
8. Eat ceral and apple sauce.
9. Nap.
11. Eat, play, carry on.
12-2. fussy time, then bed time.
5. Wake up and eat.

Which, seemingly, I would think is a pretty good deal for a baby. There was no direct time for 'communist baby raising' but she is only a few months old, and story time seems to be a reading of whatever the politcal discussion is going to be for thursday.

I, meet all her daily needs, or alteast all of the ones I can think of. I didn't bother to include every little thing.

I belive that the quality of raising a child should be devided on the health of the child, as well as the quality of life. The doctor that sees libbit is quite fond of her, tends to show her off, and I have to plan an extra hour at the office so she can be passed around.

Her quality of life can be assessed by the above.
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