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Pikasyuu
This morning, I was reading a debate between one person who claimed that makeup was simply a mask for people who happen to be insecure when it actually makes them look worse, and another who claimed that makeup is a fun and interesting art form that boosts self esteem if used and can make somebody look better if applied correctly.

Seeing as I'm in cosmetology school, we all know where I stand. Personally, I wear a lot of makeup in public. Heavy eyes occasionally, never anything on my lips, but definitely plenty of product to try and improve the look of my skin. I can admit that I wear that amount for two reasons - one, I am insecure about the way I look without it a lot of the time, and two, it makes me feel as though I can be myself in public. I don't think my attitude is healthy at all, or that it embraces the ideal. I do, however, see nothing wrong with somebody wearing makeup purely for fun or artistic purposes, or even because it makes them feel a little better. We all do little things that make us more comfortable, whether it's a certain style of dress, the way we wear our hair, or even sitting a certain way, everybody has some kind of routine that makes them feel like themselves. Why look down on someone for wearing makeup or imply that they're 'hiding their true selves'? Here's an excerpt from the argument:

person one (against):
"Bad skin looking worse with makeup is a common reality brought on by walking down the street and looking at people. The majority of people look like they both have bad skin and are wearing makeup. I know some people know how to apply it but they are VASTLY in the minority. Most people I see walking around look like sh*t and I think of how much better they'd look without that crap on their faces.

You're not one of the ones who looks like crap, far from it, but there's no way I'd look at you and think that was natural. You can tell that you're wearing a lot of makeup even though it looks really good.

You have to wear clothes for both practical and legal reasons, (part of the original argument is that if we're so concerned with our natural selves, why wear clothes or brush our hair?) so I don't see how you can compare that to wearing makeup, which you don't have to wear.

You admitted it yourself - you are hiding things with the makeup. It's common sense to suggest that someone who hides their flaws has less confidence in their appearance than someone who doesn't. I'm not sure how that's a logical fallacy or 'bullsh*t'."

person two (for):
"If they're applying it properly, you wouldn't even notice they were wearing it. I guarantee you that you see dozens of women every day wearing makeup and you don't have a clue. I also guarantee that if I wasn't wearing eye makeup and just had chapstick on, you'd have no clue I was wearing foundation at all. Good makeup is invisible.

And really, when I post a photo of me sans makeup on (_) of all places and regularly go out in public with none on, can you truly tell me I'm hiding something? I hate to break it to you, but choosing to look a little better than usual for certain occasions doesn't make someone lacking in confidence. If one couldn't function without the makeup, then there's an obvious self esteem issue. There are people who won't step foot in public without makeup, wear full makeup to the pool and the gym, who wake up an hour before their significant other to put their face on.. those people are the ones with the issues.

But claiming women who choose to wear makeup every now and then because its fun and makes them feel special is a pretty lofty claim and makes me question *your* own confidence.

By your logic, I should presume that if you wear a nice outfit and do your hair for a date, you're clearly lacking in confidence and hiding your true self - after all, if you're so happy with yourself why not just roll out of bed and let them see the true you? Lets not even get into shaving your legs.. sure hope you've never done that, if so you must clearly have a confidence problem and are hiding things. Same with deodorant, confident people embrace their natural musk, right? And you should probably just let your hair revert to its natural state and rat up, brushing and shampoo are just something insecure people use to hide their hair's natural state.

sounds ridic, right?"

So, whatcha think? If you're male and dating a girl, do you subtract points if she wears makeup out? What about just for special occasions? What about constantly? What if she takes several hours to do it? If you're female, do you look down on other women for wearing makeup? Do you not care? When do you wear it yourself? If you're male and you wear makeup, post pixxxx~
Yannick
I don't mind if women where make up when it actually looks pretty (*cough* kids in school are doing it wrong..). It really only annoys me when someone puts on make-up before going to the gym or running in the rain or something similar. If someone takes several hours to put on make-up, to each their own, but what a waste of time.

I don't actually wear make-up (unless it's a costume party or something), mainly because I don't care. I'm lazy and generally feel alright about the way I look. Might do when I'm older and going out or something, but right now honestly can't be bothered with it.
gothictheysay
QUOTE
If you're male and you wear makeup, post pixxxx~


Hahaha.

I don't wear makeup, really. Once in a while I'll pull out mascara. But I was never really into it. That said, I don't care what other people do. Obviously there are some people who don't apply it to flatter themselves, but the majority know what they're doing. Most of the time it works, sometimes it's weird, and so on. If it takes you hours... I honestly don't know where I'd get the dedication for that, and it does seem like a bit much. But, as quoted above, the real problem is when you can't go out in public without it and it stems from deeper self-esteem issues. And that's not really something to criticize, but it is something that should be fixed. That said, spending hours on doing your hair is just as silly. Many people do something to their hair before they go out, even if they just tie it back - in the same way I assume many people just wear foundation.

I wouldn't want to date someone who put too much of an emphasis on whether or not I wore makeup. If they objected to hours of it, once again, that seems normal. Preference one way or the other is fine though. My ex thought some makeup like eyeliner was sexy, and sometimes I would dress up a bit to surprise him, but I almost never wore it. My current boyfriend thinks makeup is kind of silly, but I don't think he would object to me putting on some mascara in the morning.
vicrawr
Gonna be completely male and honest. I don't notice one way or the other. Whatever makes you happy, go with it. Just don't give me weird looks if I stare at you when you spend fiftylevenhundred hours putting it on every day.
Phyllis
QUOTE (syuu @ Jun 30 2009, 06:55 PM) *
If you're female, do you look down on other women for wearing makeup? Do you not care? When do you wear it yourself?

I honestly don't care if other women wear makeup. Most of the time I don't even notice. I was really into makeup around the 7th grade, but that was mostly because I was excited about finally being able to wear it. It was forbidden until I was 13. I tired of it pretty quickly. I went through another phase of wearing it daily when I was in college, but again I got bored relatively fast and gave up. It's not worth the hassle most of the time, since I'm too shy to do anything that would call attention to my face. I'm not brave enough for anything more colourful than neutral stuff, and I can't be bothered to make my face look only slightly different each day. Now I only wear makeup when I'm dressing up (which isn't often). It takes me maybe 5 minutes to do it, and I really can't imagine spending hours. How is that even possible?!
leopold
Speaking as a male, I can honestly say that makeup only becomes an issue when it's hugely obvious. I've seen females (mostly teenage ones) who go out caked in foundation and look awful.

However, as a means to make you look and feel better, is there any difference between putting on a bit of makeup and wearing an expensive item of clothing? No. I'm all for the idea of feeling good and, as much as I try not to be vain, I can honestly say that I do feel a million dollars when I'm wearing something that looks good on me. If wearing makeup achieves the same boost in esteem, how can we criticise? We can't. Makeup isn't hurting anyone, so let's just leave people to it.

But, teenage girls, don't overdo the foundation. It won't help your complexion one iota.
Daria
I don't and never have worn make-up day to day, and I have incredibly low self esteem (I could go into the whole OH MY GOD I'M FAT AND I HATE MY CHIN AND MY WRISTS ARE TOO FAT TO WEAR BRACELETS AND EURGH, SPOTS! ...). Aaaand thanks to hormone imbalences, I still have spots. Not loads, but enough to make me feel conscious of my face the whole damn day. Anyway! Throughout growing up, I have only worn make-up if I am dressing up as a character- either for plays, Hallowe'en or fancy-dress parties. The same principle works for me now I'm older: I have a certain lipstick that I can wear, and it makes everything ok. I dress up as the characture of my outgoing, energetic and happy self, and hide behind this red lipstick until I can get home and deal with whatever is troubling me in my own time. Be that anxiety, feeling low, or feeling so self conscious that I just can't deal with the world.

I don't see a problem with anyone else wearing makeup, just as I don't have a problem with what people wear or how they style their hair. There is that old mantra of "only wear what suits you" though, which I think should apply just as much to make-up as to clothes. If you look good in what you wear then it will also naturally boost your confidence and make you feel even better. And if you feel good from the inside, it will shine out and you'll look even more amazing.

Lastly: no woman or man should dress or act in a specific way just because their partner tells them they should. Goes for make-up and body hair too! Sure, you can have preferences, but to feel pressure from a partner to be a certain way is... lame.
elphaba2
/iz currently wearing bright pink lipstick

I am a lady who likes makeup! It is fun to wear and often changes a whole 'look': makes you more put-together or badass or whatever you desire. It is also good for coverin' up on days you feel a need for it, either physically or, as Daria mentioned, emotionally as well. What a useful tool!

My last boy had told me during the first coupla weeks that he really enjoyed the fact that I didn't wear makeup, that it was something he thought was special about me. I started laughing, on account of that was a period of major insecurity for me and I was wearing 'full makeup' every day--powder foundation, eyeliner, mascara and tinted lip balm. I explained this. 'Oh.' He took a second. 'Well it's not like all over your face; it still looks like your face, you know? Um.' It was a funny exchange, which gave rise to my current Theory of Boys and Makeup: it is All Good as long as they don't notice. Except for noisy eyes or lips, which are often appreciated anyway.
voices_in_my_head
Also a big fan of makeup, here.

Though, when I do my makeup, while I don't pancake it on, I do some pretty dramatic things - Bright red lipstick, neon eyeshadows, Thick black eyeliner.

It's not because I'm insecure (the only makeup I use for that purpose would be foundation, but my skin is *finally* clearing up.) but because, like elphaba said, it's a great way to accent whatever outfit you're wearing that day. When I dress up for the day, I do it in a way that suits my mood. So, naturally, I use makeup in the same way. It's not to impress...just something I enjoy using.

The only time I don't like people wearing makeup is when they use waaaay, way too much. Bright lipstick? fine. Bright Eyeshadow? Okay. Heavy Foundation? acceptable. All at once? ....not so much. In my opinion, it should be use to accent the things that're good about your appearence (Great eyes? Dress 'em up! show 'em off!) - not to completely hide everything!
Mata
I still wear make-up when I go out to goth clubs, but it's only eye shadow and/or liner these days. I don't bother with mascara anymore, mostly because it usually turned clumpy through infrequent use.

I think it's harder for a man to look good with make up on as they get older - it's a thing for younger guys to do, so I've changed my styles to be a bit more sedate. Then again, when I've got some more hair back I may consider wearing it more often. I'm lucky to be aging reasonably gracefully so I hope I can continue to get away with it for a while yet!

I've occasionally considered wearing a little eyeshadow to work. I've not done it yet, and I do wonder how the people in the office would react... They're a pretty eclectic bunch, but it would be interesting to see. I'm not sure if it would be a great career move (not through prejudice, but because it might make me seem to teenage to be suitable for promotion). I think it's definitely a more complex question for men than women!
snooodlysnoosnoosnoodle
I hate makeup.

I was bought up in a house with no makeup whatsoever, I don't think I have ever seen my mum wearing makeup. When I was younger I used to sneakily buy makeup if I went shopping with my friends, try it once and then throw it away at school because I was ashamed of myself for wanting to wear it and afraid my parents would find out.
Some of my friends at school used to put it on me but it always made me feel like I stuck out like a sore thumb, I had virtually no self esteem and anything that I felt might draw attention to myself freaked me out. People often asked me why I didn't wear makeup and that made me feel ashamed of myself for not wearing it and consequentially led to a lot of angst around the subject.

Now I've left home I don't really have any desire to wear makeup, I occasionally wear nail polish (if I'm going out or really bored) but other than that I don't own any.

To be honest I am quite envious of people to use makeup to dramatic effect (like elph and voices) but know that I never could and I say if you can then go for it (if you make it look good) but it worries me how much some people feel like they can't leave the house without it. Okay it may not be something that is likely to cause you harm but it can certainly be an addiction.

I'm not sure if I contributed anything to the discussion, I'm tired and just wanted to vent really.
sizzlieswix
QUOTE (IrishGuy @ Jul 1 2009, 05:34 AM) *
Gonna be completely male and honest. I don't notice one way or the other. Whatever makes you happy, go with it. Just don't give me weird looks if I stare at you when you spend fiftylevenhundred hours putting it on every day.


I've heard this from a lot of guys. That they don't notice either way unless of course the makeup is WAY over the top like Fannie Mae Baker when your face looks like a parrot blew up on it.
Apollyon
I've noticed one thing in this discussion, and that is that there's a bit of a divide between people who just seem to see makeup as another element of accessorizing a look, similar to jewelry, and others who see it as something else. I think this probably comes from the fact that we base so much of how we relate to other people on their face and facial expressions, so when you're looking at a face that is heavily made up it can feel like you're interacting with more of a character.

I think one thing that highlights this difference is whether the person in question is using the makeup to highlight something that already exists in your face, such as high cheekbones or pretty eyes, or using it to create something that was never there in the first place. One of my mother's friends uses a really dark shade of lipstick, and there's nothing wrong with that, except that she puts it on way above the natural peaks of her lips to create this really strange illusion and it makes her face look completely different. She's also the type to draw on eyebrows and cover up everything with foundation. I'm sure she has her own reasons for doing this, but when you're talking to her it feels like you're talking to some crazy robotic supermom or something (I may be exaggerating here tongue.gif).

I'm starting to ramble, but another example. I like sharpies. A lot. I frequently draw insane spiral patterns all over my arms (one reason i could never get a tattoo- my canvas would be gone). These spirals don't change the way people act around me or relate to me. However, if I were to draw the patterns all over my face, first of all it would be annoying because I would need a mirror, but it would also completely change how people were viewing me. Clothing or hair styling is not the same as makeup just because it doesnt cover your face.

Just my random thoughts on the subject smile.gif
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