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Witless
Some of you might not have heard about this, some of you have. But this is about the Chinese toddler that was hit and run over by a truck, then run over again. All the while by standers just walk on by ignoring the event deciding not to get involved. It wasn't until the 19th passer by came that someone did anything. The whole event was caught on cctv.

I'll post a link to the youtube video, but before you click it, be warned you may not want to see it. It's pretty horrific and upsetting to be honest.

Here's the link

There's been lots of speculations on the why. Some more racist folk are saying it's what chinese people are like. The chinese people themselves are feeling ashamed at what they regard as declining morales in the shadow of their rapidly changing culture and country.

The day after this happaned, an American woman rescued a woman that wanted to commit suicide from a lake, risking her own life in the process. A lot of people in the chinese online community are frustrated that a foreigner would jump in to help before any chinese would (I'm starting to think China's on the brink of a bit of a cultural revolution.)

Then there's lots of psycologists describing the Bystander effect.
QUOTE
"According to a basic principle of social influence, bystanders monitor the reactions of other people in an emergency situation to see if others think that it is necessary to intervene. Each person uses others’ behavior as clues to reality. Since everyone is doing exactly the same thing (nothing), they all conclude from the inaction of others that help is not needed. This is an example of pluralistic ignorance or social proof. The other major obstacle to intervention is known as diffusion of responsibility. This occurs when observers all assume that someone else is going to intervene and so each individual feels less responsible and refrains from doing anything."


Aside from the horror of that happening at all. What do you guys think? Do you think it's more likely to happen in modern China than the wealthier western countries. A quote from the driver of the first truck,
QUOTE
"If she is dead, I may pay only about 20,000 yuan ($3,125). But if she is injured, it may cost me hundreds of thousands yuan"

Which is a disturbing but truthful statement. That genuinely isn't true in Northern America and Europe at the least.

Some Chinese are also bringing up a 2006 court case involving a young man named Peng Yu after he tried to help a fallen elderly woman on the streets; the judge of the case ruled that “common sense” suggested that Peng only took to the woman to the hospital because he was guilty.

I know the bystander effect is universal, there have been a few cases in the UK of homeless people dying and being left for 2 days before anyone checked to see if their OK. Off the top of my head I can think of at least one case where someone was beaten, abused, and shot and the people in the local neighborhood all heard it, but no one called the police. They just assumed someone else would do it. But would the bystander effect in the west be quite as full on as in that video? Or is something weird going on in China?

That thought is rolling around my head.

Also, hello again issues forum. Sorry for returning with such a horrible story.
pgrmdave
QUOTE (Witless @ Oct 24 2011, 07:05 AM) *
Aside from the horror of that happening at all. What do you guys think? Do you think it's more likely to happen in modern China than the wealthier western countries...But would the bystander effect in the west be quite as full on as in that video? Or is something weird going on in China?


From the wiki article you linked to:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_eff...otable_examples

Four are in NYC, one is in california, one is in Brighton.

I don't think that any conclusion as to whether something is more likely in one place or another can be drawn from a single incident.
Witless
I know, but it seems to be a feeling that is echoed a lot in the Chinese online community of late.
Wondered what you thought.
Mata
It might be that the feelings expressed by the Chinese people are the moment aren't strictly related to the actual case - it is horrific, but not exceptional (on a historical basis) either. It could be that this has simply given a focus for outpourings of grief and tension at a time when people are feeling very uncertain about the future. China is getting hit by the recession like the rest of the world and it must be hard for the culture to admit that it is more dependant on Western banking systems than it would like to admit. Anything that can be a clear and easy focus for an expression of horror at the world will probably get more attention at such a low point.
pgrmdave
I think that it's a combination of a lot of factors, but it comes down to people not knowing the proper protocol in a given situation.

In any society, there will be social norms, basic things that you do to fit in. Maybe it's knowing to take a number at the deli counter, or how to write a check.

The problem is that there are situations - like watching a man stomp his two year old son to death - for which there is no protocol, and most people aren't trained for it. In situations where people are uncomfortable and they don't know what to do, they'll often look to others, who are themselves looking to others, so nothing gets done. It's why one of the things you learn in basic first aid is to take charge of a situation if nobody else is, and don't say things like "somebody call 911!" but point out a *specific* person and tell them *specifically* to call 911.

I don't know if I could say that it's more likely in one culture than another, mostly because I don't really know other cultures except academically - I know that there is, from what I've heard, a strong sense of egalitarianism in many east Asian cultures, but I don't know how that affects anything because I come from a more libertarian culture. I suspect that this behavior, of diluted responsibility, inaction in the presence of a group, etc. is a human trait shared across cultures, but one that plays well into the storyline of urbanization (and imperialization - the erosion of one's culture and enmeshing of a more powerful society's culture) and so it doesn't get played as "this is a human condition" but "where did we go wrong?!".
BigMistake
When the Dutch news reported on this "thing", they had a Chinese sociologist explain the possible reasons for not helping that kid. He mentioned how they wouldn't be able to help her anyway and would waste time, were afraid of lawsuits, etc etc. He wasn't able to explain why they didn't so much as look at the kid though.
CrazyFooIAintGettinOnNoPlane
QUOTE (pgrmdave @ Oct 24 2011, 06:14 PM) *
I think that it's a combination of a lot of factors, but it comes down to people not knowing the proper protocol in a given situation.

In any society, there will be social norms, basic things that you do to fit in. Maybe it's knowing to take a number at the deli counter, or how to write a check.

The problem is that there are situations - like watching a man stomp his two year old son to death - for which there is no protocol, and most people aren't trained for it. In situations where people are uncomfortable and they don't know what to do, they'll often look to others, who are themselves looking to others, so nothing gets done. It's why one of the things you learn in basic first aid is to take charge of a situation if nobody else is, and don't say things like "somebody call 911!" but point out a *specific* person and tell them *specifically* to call 911.

I don't know if I could say that it's more likely in one culture than another, mostly because I don't really know other cultures except academically - I know that there is, from what I've heard, a strong sense of egalitarianism in many east Asian cultures, but I don't know how that affects anything because I come from a more libertarian culture. I suspect that this behavior, of diluted responsibility, inaction in the presence of a group, etc. is a human trait shared across cultures, but one that plays well into the storyline of urbanization (and imperialization - the erosion of one's culture and enmeshing of a more powerful society's culture) and so it doesn't get played as "this is a human condition" but "where did we go wrong?!".

Yep. I don't blame people for not acting in a situation like this; I'd probably have reacted the same way.

The behaviour of the individuals is reasonable even if the resulting behaviour of the collective isn't. You have no idea what anyone else is going to do, but you probably assume the rest of the people there will respond in a positive way (anyone shocked by this story certainly does). And if you think you can't do anything more to help, you're not going to.

Also with cases like this the media tends to downplay how confusing the situation was. It's easy to say after the fact that such and such thing happened in plain sight and people ignored it and so on, but who knows how the actual people perceived it?
QUOTE (that wikipedia article, referring to the Kitty Genovese case)
According to an article published in American Psychologist in 2007, the original story of Genovese's murder was exaggerated by the media. Specifically, there were not 38 eyewitnesses, the police were contacted at least once during the attack, and many of the bystanders who overheard the attack could not actually see the event. The authors of the article suggest that the story continues to be misrepresented in social psychology textbooks because it functions as a parable and serves as a dramatic example for students.
Mata
Also - you probably wouldn't believe it was real: "surely the parent would have noticed if their child had walked into traffic, therefore it's got to just be something that looks a bit like a child, rather than really a child".
Pikasyuu
even worse is standing by for ratings.
an article recently came out about a woman on a reality show who blacked out - while she was unconscious, some of her castmates raped her with a toothbrush. this was all caught on film and none of the camera crew did a thing about it. i honestly hope everyone gets sued within an inch of their wallet.
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