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LindyLouWho
Is it evil and the work of the devil to abort a child or is it a godsend to prevent unwanted children from being forced into the word?
cheese is funny
abortion...

ok when: a girl is raped and cannot take care of it.... rape sucks so much... and when it involves pregnancy, its adding salt and lemon to the wound...

not ok when: some girl goes out, gets mad drunk, and fools around, gets pregnant, and says its not her fault....

note - im trying to show this from a chicks point of veiw i guess.... i dont know how to explain it from a guys... or maybe i am explaining it from a guys point of veiw... meh.. whatever...
Debaser
i am pro-choice. i believe that it's a woman's right to have an abortion if she wants one. for once, i also agree partially with the government's opinion on this. up to 20 weeks (the amount of time before the foetus becomes an independent life form) is an acceptable time to have an abortion. as for the "god's will" thing, although i don't believe in a god, no one takes into account that it might be god's will that you HAVE the abortion in the first place.

sorry, i'm rambling.
Overfriendly_Kitten
wow, what a question...

My personal belief is that Abortion should be allowed but carefully regulated.


There are many different and difficult issues all tied up with this one:

Issues like rape victims who don't want the child that's been forced on them. (also tied in with incest cases)

Mothers who want to have their child but may/will die in labour (worryingly high number of deaths during birth - especially in third world and developing countries)

Very young mothers eg teens who weren't given the kind of education that could have prevented their unwanted pregnancy.

Mothers with HIV/AIDS who don't want to pass on the disease to any children (esp in accidental pregnancy).

Mothers who find that their children will be born with serious defects/handicap.

Mothers who are too poor to be able to afford a child.

Then you have to look on the flip side - you have a human being who has, through no fault of their own, suddenly been created and now facing a potential death sentence.

I have to say that I am seriously concerned by the number of women (and men) who treat abortion as just another form of contraception. People who could have and should have taken more precautions before getting pregnant in the first place (I say people because it takes two to tango and the bloke invovled should assume some responsibility for his genetic material).

On the whole I don't think there should be a blanket 'yes or no' answer to this - but that abortion should be only used in the most serious of cases and only with the mother's full consent... I do not think that it should be thought of and then used as a quick and easy method of getting rid of 'a little problem'.
Jaq
Meh. I think it's pretty fuzzy. If you can physically have the child, then you should and if you don't want it there are plenty of infertile couples who do.

If you're very young, have been raped,if it's medically impossible to carry a baby to term, don't think you could care for the child but also don't think you could give it up, then I think you should have an abortion.

This is all the woman's choice though, no one should say what a woman can and can't do with her own body. I think that abortion should be legal (I know, it already is)
Pikasyuu
Pro choice.
cheese is funny
i think if a chick consents to having sex, has sex with out birth control, then she should have the child, she made a bad choice... she shouldnt be able to run away from it
LoLo
Pro-Choice.

It's a woman's body and the woman's fetus, it's her choice to decide what to do with it.

Many people who shouldn't have kids do. Accidents happen and people who don't want children can end up with one. If a woman has the guts to get one, then she should be able too. I personally wouldn't because of the mental pain and anguish that came from simply having a miscarriage. I thought I killed the baby and it still eats me up inside to this day, and to do it on purpose wouldn't be something I could handle. That's just me though.

Making it illegal just leads to more deaths. Women will get it done wether it is legal or not. Having it not be legal just meens that it is done in an uncontrolled usually dirty and unsteril environment. This leads to not only the childs death but the moms as well.
Phyllis
i am emphatically pro-choice.

i do not, however, think it should be a form of contraception, but an emergency, one-time thing.

i also think the father's feelings should be considered...if he's willing to raise it on his own, then the mother should consider that option. however, it is still her body, and she should be able to decide whether she wants to carry a baby to full term.

i am against partial-birth abortions...if you're gonna wait that long, then you should just have the baby.
MistressAlti
Pro-life. I know I'm probably bucking the trend here, but I think if you're having sex, then you've already made your choice. I believe human beings are human from conception, and I believe terminating a pregancy is terminating a life. This doesn't mean I condemn anyone that is pro-choice or anyone that has ever had an abortion, but I don't believe it's right.

Sorry. I know I'm a silly conservative Christian stereotype. Just the way I am.
Phyllis
nothing wrong w/ that at all missy. i have many friends who are pro-life. in fact, i think i may be the only one out of my group from high school who is pro-choice.

anyway, this is a related topic that i just never understood..and mind you i realize that these people i'm about to discuss are the minority and that the vast majority of pro-life people are in no way like these nuts..and that such incidences are, in fact, very rare. i just don't understand why some fanatics bomb abortion clinics....aren't they killing people by doing so? what makes an abortion doctor somehow less sacred than a fetus?
oobunnie
I'm pro choice, although i dont know if I could abort a child thats doesnt mean other people shouldnt have the right to.

This reminds me of an idea i had. You see rather than wasting medical money (for those of use who live in countrys with public health care) just give them a free sterilization after the 20th abortion. I think its a win win situation. The girls doesnt have to waste a day in an abortion clinic ever again, and tax payers get to stop paying for them. Now i do mean this in a cynical sort of a way for those that just dont seem to catch on to the entire maybe i should start getting some portection deal.
leopold
Step forth yet another pro-choicer...

I dun think I can add anythin else to what everyone else has said - Cheese said it first an everyone else has followed that abortion in some cases is a good, or even necessary thing, but not an option for birth control.

There was a woman, lived not too far from here (I don't know her) was raped an got pregnant from it. On the day she went to the clinic, there was a pro-life demo goin on an they basically made her feel like she was the scum of the earth! I mean, how awful!! Poor lass has to endure the trauma of rape, discoverin she's pregnant an havin an abortion, then gettin a faceful of how she's evil an goin to hell!! I'm sorry missy - I'm sure yer not like that, but that kinda behaviour makes me very angry...
hinsley
QUOTE (cheese is funny @ Jun 19 2003, 01:10 AM)
not ok when: some girl goes out, gets mad drunk, and fools around, gets pregnant, and says its not her fault....

it is her fault but it's the guys fault too.

PRO CHOICE HERE.
nordelen
QUOTE (LoLo @ Jun 19 2003, 02:23 AM)
It's a woman's body and the woman's fetus, it's her choice to decide what to do with it.

when the pregnancy is just through stupidity the father should be told though. (and when i say stupidity i mean on both the parents parts; if a man decides that he is'nt going to use protection just because it decreses the sensation he should be left to his own "devices", and not be allowed into decent society.) the woman should not have to suffer with the decession alone, and the irrisponsable men should not be allowed to cost through life like this.
as for the acctual topic: i think that abortion should be allowed, but on a case-by-case basis.
MoonlightSavingsTime
I'm pro-choice, but I don't feel like talking about abortion right now. Instead I want to mention how important it is that people receive a decent education on contraceptives at an early age.

Also, I'm probably one of the few who has no objections to late-term pregnancy abortion though.

I've beaten this subject to death in the past so I'm too lazy to go into anymore detail at the moment. sleep.gif
WeeJ
I know that if my boyfriend and I messed up, I would want an abortion. He was quite shocked when I told him this.
The thought of me ending up pregnant gives him the heebie jeebies, as it does me. It would completely mess up both of our lives right now.

I held a three week old baby in my arms the weekend. It felt magical. He was sleeping and kept making little cute baby noises.

Someone then decided to lump me with another sprog for a while. This baby was VERY awake and just kept bawling at me. I didn't have a clue what to do and my mom took the small bundle of 'joy' off me and it immediatly shut up. Just made me aware of how much of a shite mother I'd be :/
Skiz
Abortion to prevent suffering is fine previding theres an upper limit on when (I think the current one may be too high).

Abortion as birth control is wrong.

I think in some young people having a baby would ruin their life and maybe build resentment so maybe abortion is right in that situation.

Personally I wouldnt have one, but I dont think you can really say that until youve been in the situation. Im keeping an open mind.
Mr Fuzzy
To throw in another point that came up here about contraception...

Why are men expected to carry a condom, but few women will? They will be using the damn thing too!
If *everybody* keeps them handy, then there is no problem if one person runs out or loses their 'supplies'.

(by the way, I do carry them)
MistressAlti
Hey, some girls do carry them...

I had a keychain with a condom inside of it for a long time, but a friend needed the latex balloon, so it got donated to her cause.

I haven't replaced it yet, considering I'm not sexually active and don't really worry about it for myself, but I carry for other people sometimes.

(a bit off topic, this was, but it ties to fuzzy's commentary...)
cheese is funny
i have to agree with fuzzy whole heartedly on this one... if a person is sexually active, regardless of gender, s/he should carry a condom on them... it would probebly mean alot less unwanted pregnancies....

and while we are on this topic... why do i seem to hear of people saying things like "i dont have sex with a condom because i love her/him"? what the hell is up with that shitty logic? unless they intend on having a kid... that is the most stupid saying ive heard ever...
Skiz
In most circumstances now there are so many ways of preventing pregnancy most excuses mean nothing. The only one which holds any water is refusing on cultural/religious grounds (personally think this is also poor, but I can understand why some people dont use it in these situations).

There was a theory that all young women should be fitted with the coil at 13 so that the chances of them getting pregnant are reduced. It would solve a lot of heartache put the coil has its problems and it is infringing personal choice. What do you think?
Phyllis
the coil (also called an IUD) is an extremely dangerous device that could lead to a woman bleeding to death internally through perforation of the uterus. that is a horrible idea. as is all forced birth control, in my opinion..there are several religions that are opposed to birth control, plus it'd just be wrong to go against a person's rights like that.
leopold
Erm, perhaps not... I've heard the coil is pretty horrible...

To touch on what cheese says about condoms an people not usin 'em... I still use condoms even though I'm married. An yes, that's wi the wife exclusively! She had a bad reaction to the pill, an we dun want kids, so it's that or no sex...
craziness
i NEVER want children.
what if the condom breaks?
what if the pill doesnt work?
IT COULD HAPPEN.
i would be the most horrible mother ever and also, i dont want to go through the pain of it! if somebody wants to do something to their own body, then leave them the &*%^ alone!!!!!! [as long as its not going to kill them, for example if somebody was anarexic. they are doing something to their own body, but they are also slowly killing themselves, and if they do recover, their body will most likely be scarred by it forever.]
people telling me i shouldnt be able to have an abortion just kills me. so i shouldnt be able to have sex without risking having a kid? some people dont want kids! if its a religious issue, may i remind you that we are [these days] not supposed to tie religion into the law? i could rant about this for about another 3946523653 hours. its juts not right to force somebody into that. weather she was raped or not.
Mr Fuzzy
QUOTE (craziness @ Jun 19 2003, 09:27 PM)
i NEVER want children.

Not now maybe, but thats something infamous for creeping up on people over time!
talking to faeries
I'm not decided on this topic...in some cases I think that its for the best, but for others I'm not too sure. I don't think I could form an opinion on it unless I was faced with the situation (which I hope I won't be)
craziness
i think i would kill them! i know im only 13, but this is one thing that i am pretty sure about. i would die. when you make the decision to have kids, this is what you are doing:
a] putting yourself through pain for 9 months and changing your body, making it less attractive and harder to deal with.
b] giving yourself the obligation to raise these things, wheather you like them or not, you are bound to them forever.
c] they will expect you to love them. if you are going to have kids, you SHOULD love them. i probably would love my kids if i had them...about 50% of the time..........
d] i cant stand kids for more than 3 hours, and anything that i give birth to is bound to act like me, and there is no way i could deal with something that acts like that! scheming evil demonic bastage!
e] you then must be able to provide for not only yourself, but also your child.
f] for many people, this binds you to the signifigant other you had the child with. if anything, you will have to see them sometimes because you will probably have shared custody, and the kid will wanna know who their real other parent is.
MistressAlti
QUOTE (Mr Fuzzy @ Jun 19 2003, 02:37 PM)
QUOTE (craziness @ Jun 19 2003, 09:27 PM)
i NEVER want children.

Not now maybe, but thats something infamous for creeping up on people over time!

/me laughs

Those same exact words could have been heard from my mouth less than two years ago. Over the course of those two years, my position has completely reversed... I blame hormones and the damn maternal instinct.
elf
QUOTE (cheese is funny @ Jun 18 2003, 05:10 PM)
abortion...

ok when: a girl is raped and cannot take care of it.... rape sucks so much... and when it involves pregnancy, its adding salt and lemon to the wound...

not ok when: some girl goes out, gets mad drunk, and fools around, gets pregnant, and says its not her fault....

note - im trying to show this from a chicks point of veiw i guess.... i dont know how to explain it from a guys... or maybe i am explaining it from a guys point of veiw... meh.. whatever...

Yeah... I'm pro-life, UNLESS the girl was raped or may die if she has the baby.

<I was about to make this topic... drat, lindy =P stole it from me! jk>
Righteous
This is gonna sound weird (as does most of what I say), but I'm pro choice, but for different reasons than you guys. I believe abortion is wrong. Period. I believe that every p being should have a chance at life. What I don't believe, however, is that I have the right to tell any woman what to do with her own body. While I believe that there is a life inside pf a pregnant woman, it is her womb to do with as she pleases. I've had a few pregnance scares both mine and my friends and I was adamant about wanting my friend or girlfriend keep the kid, particularly if the potential kid were mine. I was happy to find out that my brother (whom I've mentioned before) and his girlfriend were keeping their baby. I, too, believe the father's feelings should be considered because the kid is as much his as the mother's.
craziness
i think that righteous makes a perfect point here. he thinks its wrong, but he respects what the girl wants to do. that is fair. you dont have to support it. but at least let people have a choice.
Righteous
Thanks for the support, Craziness.
oobunnie
Although i think part of what righteous is saying is fair enough. I dont think the guy should have much say in. First of all he's not the one that has to deal with pains and changes the body goes threw over the 9 monthes, nor labour. and secondly the guy has the ablity to leave when he wants, however once the girl decideds to keep the child theres not really any choice left for her.

One of my friendss got pregnant when she was 16 and her bf at the time convinced her to keep the child. One month after the kid was born he left and now only gives her about $200 (canadain) a month, which is basically nothing. From taking care of the child she never got to finish highschool, or go to post secondary. So i am not to big on the father having a choice, after all in the end he really isnt the one who has to deal with it.
Righteous
The reason I wanted my girlfriend or friend to keep the kid was because I was willing to be a father to the kid, even when the kid isn't mine. This one time, a friend of mine got high slept with this guy at a party. I told her that if she were pregnant, I would sign the birth certificate as the father. She wasn't pregnant, but had she been, I would have kept my word. In a situation like that, I feel the father's feelings should be taken into consideration, however, ultimately, it is the woman's choice.
oobunnie
yes but you its easy enough for a man to "give his word" my friends ex bf did. It doesnt mean that he wont change his mind. i suppose it would be a matter of, more in yourself then someone else.

I think thats its nice that you would "step up to the plate" but there are plenty of men who wont, but would "give there word" that they would
LoLo
Just a quick reply then I gotta go hop in the shower and start getting ready for work.

I agree with oobunnie, when it comes to the womens choice. Yeah it would be all nice and fluffy fun to let the guy choose, but if you think about it, if it's to the point where hey I messed up and I have to get an abortion to fix this, does the guy really need to know? Maybe he would make a good father and would want the child to be born, but from my experience guys like that aren't the ones who get girls pregnant. Also if a woman decides to have it done and the guy really wanted it and knew she did it, well that would ruin everything between them. If it were better for her and her future to have it done and she did it, better to not tell the guy and get him pissed off at her. I don't know, maybe I'm just a horrible person for thinking so.
MistressAlti
I think it's unfair not to tell the father and have him be part of the decision too. The "problem" was created by two people, and those same two people need to decide how to resolve things.
oobunnie
the problem may have been created by two people but in the end, its only one person that really has to deal with the reprocutions (sp?) It would be nice if every guy stuck around and help the girl, but it doesn't always.

On the other hand i think that guy does have some right to know. If he truelly cares for you,--like he should if he was going to stick if you kept the kid-- then he should be supporting you. If he fly's of the handle then i dont think he truely cares for you.

Missy, if you think that the problem is caused by two people, what about in cases of rape or incest (in case of were the child is taken advantage). In both those cases the girl has no control and is being forced to deal with it
MistressAlti
Well, I was referring more to the situation being described in Lo's post... of course rape and incest are quite a bit different, and there's only one person who needs to make a decision there.
Mr Fuzzy
QUOTE (oobunnie @ Jun 20 2003, 08:42 PM)
It would be nice if every guy stuck around and help the girl, but it doesn't always.

Some do though.
Righteous
QUOTE (Mr Fuzzy @ Jun 20 2003, 07:18 PM)
Some do though.

Go Fuzz. Stand up for guys. We keep getting bashed in this topic.
oobunnie
That is true some do, but my point is that some dont, or in the begining they do and that changes.

Serial Killers have the ability to change and become productive citizens, but does that mean we should let them all go?

aww how i love my pointless analogies
reaper
Looking at such a tough subject is not easy.I believe that it is the girls choice. In th instance that she was raped I feel so strongly agauinst rape that it hurts to here about it and when a girl gets pregnet as the result of that it is so very hard for the girl to know what to do. First of all who to tell or if she can tell anyone and second what she will do afterwards.

Another aspect as jon mentioned is if she got drunk and fooled around,then the girl shoudl take responsability for what she did and be ready for the outcome.

The bottom line is regardless of how the chidl was concieved he or she did not ask to be concieved in a way other then between to loving adults,however it is human non the less but do we ask it what it wants ?,ovcourse not we cant but if we could would it matter ?
[Wraeth]
Pro Choice. I think people should be able to choose to abort their pregnancies no matter what the circumstances of conception. While the foetus is entirely dependant on the mother, the mother should have the choice of whether it lives or does. Up to a point of course. Once the embryo has grown past a certain stage, and could be considered Human, then it would be wrong, but while it still looks like an ugly lump in the womb, the mother (and only the mother - its up to her whether she consults the father about this) should be able to decide whether or not to abort it.
Sarah the Spider
I am Pro-Life. It doesn't really have to do with religion, I just feel it is wrong to abort children.

I think abortion is a form of murder. I can accept people who do it or who have done it, but I can never condone it.

If a girl is raped, then it's terrible for her. To get pregnant by it is worse. But the baby had no more decision than the girl did in being there, so it shouldn't suffer. The girl could put it up for adoption if she couldn't take care of it. It happens all the time.

If they get pregnant due to poor decisions, it is even more-so their responsibility.

That's just what I believe.

And yes, the father should know if it wasn't a rape situation. They deserve to have a say in it. Maybe he could care for it if the girl couldn't, etc. It's the fair thing to do.
craziness
what if you are trying to use birth control and there is a problem? for ex. the condom breaks or the pill doesnt work? so its not like you arent risking it, but you have an abortion to fall back on? i think that if you are going to try not to have kids you shouldnt be forced to.
cheese is funny
QUOTE (Sarah the Spider @ Jun 21 2003, 11:48 PM)
If they get pregnant due to poor decisions, it is even more-so their responsibility.

i couldnt agree with this more...
quietus_x
I'm pro-choice, mostly because if legal abortion wasn't possible, than people would resort to illegal abortions and that's not a good thing. I keep hearing something about coat hangers, and I'm very imaginative... *shudder*

While it /is/ the mother's fault if she does something irresponsible and gets pregnant, it'd be the child that'd suffer if it wasn't wanted, but the mother still kept it.

What if the mother can't support a child financially? Or just isn't ready for the responsibility involved? Aren't there enough children that're in adoption places and stuff, anyways? And then there's the situations of rape, too, and life-threatening cases, and whatever.

What if the mother would rather have an abortion than suffer through pregnancy and birth only to put the baby up for adoption, anyways?
craziness
i agree X!! arent we overpopulated enough already anyways?
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