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acidteardrop
i f--king hate my dad. ever since i told him i was bi hes taken away almost every freedom i had. i can no longer go anywhere with anyone but him. i am not allowed to see anyone except in skool. when i get home from skool, as soon as im done my chores i must go strait to my room and come out only when neccessary. i recently join a Gay-Strait Alliance (GSA) group...i can no longer go to. and all because i told him im f--king bisexual. but oh no, thats not the reason he gives...he says its because he needs to get me away from what influencing me to be who i am. INFLUENCING ME OT BE WHO I AM! i am who the f--k i am! WHO THE F--K DO YOU THINK YOU ARE!
what ive been doing that "so wrong of me to do":

i went to halloween in drag(just oen day)
i wore nailpolish to skool the monday after halloween (it was part of my costume, after halloween i just didnt take it off. it was just one day)
i wore a pink feather boa to skool (one f--king day)
i went out with a guy (one day...then he cast me aside. if you dont know the whole story about my gender, just ignore this one)
im in a long distance relationship with krys(magikeyes...and what this has todo with me being bi i have no idea)
ive recently become open about my sexuality, and told people, but thats b/c when something is on my mind...I NEED to tell people. plus, they ask me.
and a few more things.

now...i did that stuff, because its my personality. and he has the boldness to come out and tell me im being INFLUENCED to be bi? f--k that! he also tells me im not ready for sexuality yet, and that he wants to teach me it and no one else. he thinks no one else has my best interests at heart. now look at my restrictions. he has MY best interests? or is he a f--king greedy hypocritial sh-t-faced conservative? Ive been studying sexuality and such since i was 11 or 12. hes never gone to lectures on it, taken classes on it, or anything like that. hes had the life experience of a homophobic hetero. "but my best freind is gay" he says. and this means...? this doesnt matter at all, what does this have to do with it? so big fuckin deal, your best freind is gay. well my ex-bf is gay. also,so are almost all of the people i know. i know more gay/bi/transgender/transsexual people than you and i know strait people combined. go to a GA...THEN you can tell me about sexuality. i also brought the point up...he tells me "i like to be educated on both sides of an argument." ya..hes reading _MY_ book on karl marx. okay, why dont you "teach" me your biphobic sexuality course and ill have people who know what their talking about will be the ones i listen to.

ive given him that whole f--king argument, and he jsut ignored it. didnt even raise an argument, he pretended it didnt exist. thanks for reading this far. it means a lot to me.

what should i do? are there any more points i should raise?
Alanity
Ouch. *uberhygutiness*
I can't imagine how sucky that whole situation must be, and can't really give any advice or anything, just hygutiness... (hugityness)
Hyperion
*also, hugs*

Man, that really sucks. I'd tell you to try talking with him, but you obviously have, so I have NO idea what to tell you. My gods... some people can be so afraid of what they don't understand...
acidteardrop
thank you both. it means a lot to know people care.

yeah, i just talked to my sister. she says there is more to it than that, but if there is why doesnt he f--king tell me exactly what the matter is? i think its bullsh-t.

as far as im concerned, you guys are the only family i have. i love you all.
Sir Psycho Sexy
he probably sees it as some sort of slur against his masculinity, if you're his only son then it stands to reason he might have thought he's gone wrong somewhere along the line or not have been very attentive, i'd imagine it'd be a fairly big thing to have your child come out and tell you they're bisexual...esspecially for his generation, give it time, he'll probably accept it eventually
prezgfish
give the man the ultimatum that if he doesn't accept you for what you are and allow you to live your life then you will disown him. that he will no longer be your father he'll just be a guy who had a thing with your mom.

let him know that he will never be an influence in your life and if you ever have kids then he wont have anything to do with them either.

now if the bigot doesnt accept this and thinks your bluffing, you only have to do 1 thing to start off with, a small subtle thing.

stop calling him dad.

start referring to him by his firast name and refuse to use the d-word anymore.

even when talking to your sister reffer to him by his first name.

now he should start getting the point pretty damn quickly.

and if not, then well theres always captain sledge hammer to the rescue.
magikeyes14
if your dad has a problem with who u are, thats his deal, dont listen to him. He should be accepting of everything u chose, unless it is like, uber terrible (ie:kill sumon, u gte the drift). I have recently talked to my father about what he would think if i told ihm i was bi and he told me that he woundlt care. he actualy saiud it would be a great thing becuase then he wouldnt have to chase anymore a$$holes away *laughs* anyways, i also asked him about the nail polish thing (u should remember) he said thats total f--king bullshit... my dad may be very odd and erm... yah.. but him and i both disaprove of the way your father is treating you.

the reason for him not listening to your argument was probably becuase he was pissed and just doesnt wanna hear it. Most parents cant stadn their only son/daughter likeing the same sex... and he probably still thinks u are a child and that he has total controll over you. you need to make it clear to him that he cant have TOTAL controll, just becuase he's being homophobic doesnt mean u have to be, and what the hell??! this is the freaking 21 century! kids rebel against their parents, we purposly do the opposite of what they want! why isnt your dad ggetting that!? make it clear to him that he is not going to change your sexual preference becuae he cant change who u are, if he doesnt understand, then o well, thats his problem.. if he continues to ground u for becusae bi or doing something little (wearing nailpolish) then ask him why your grounded, force him to answer you. It always works wiht my dad.. *huggles* sorry aboutt his sweetie, i hope it gets better.....


and he is pissed about u being with me?? blink.gif =/
monkey_called_narth
parents are dorks, be what you want to be as long as it makes you happy.
Rattgirl
*HUGS* That's totally crazy, the way your dad is reacting. I'm sorry you're going through this. I can understand what you're going through...i'm straight, but my mom is just as straight-laced as your dad, and I can't tell her that I'm pagan because she's told me in the past that if I ever "give up God" she'll disown me. I can only imagine what she'd threaten me with if I ever became bi or discovered I was a lesbian! rolleyes.gif

It sounds like your dad is having some real identity issues of his own. I know that a lot of parents have a hard time coming to grips with their child being bi- or homosexual, because those parents were raised with old philosophies and believe that there is something fundamentally wrong with being attracted to members of the same sex. So when they find out that their child is, they feel that it reflects badly on them as a parent and as a human being...they feel that they somehow went wrong in raising their child, and that it's their fault that this "terrible thing" has happened.

I think the biggest thing you could do to help both you and your dad is to somehow get him to understand that despite what he was told when he was younger, it's not a bad thing to be bi or homosexual. (despite his having a gay man as a friend..I know an unbelievably homophobic guy who's friends with a gay man...he just forgets his friend is gay when he's around. It's sad.) If he can start believing that it's not a slight against him, then he won't feel the need to "straighten you out."

Yeah, that's hard as heck to do but it seems like the best place to start...
mcsimong
being the open homosexual i am....

i came out to my mom two months ago. it's been nothing but sheer hell since then. it's a really bad idea to come out to your mom when she's trippin on meth and coke at the same time. dry.gif but it's not like i KNEW she was.. anyway.. she's been clean for 21 days as of today, and i realized, it's even worse when she's sober, because she has the realization that
a) if i dont have another kid i'm not having a grandchild
cool.gif oh crap! i'm not able to have another kid
c) my son's never gonna have a wedding (oh hell yeah he is, right aries?)
d) ... well a whole bunch of other crap that i cant think of off the top of my head
but you know what.. IT'S NOT YOUR FAULT!!! it really isn't-- and if its a matter of christianity or whatever, "GOD" MADE YOU THE WAY TO ARE. god made me the way i am.. and i love the way i am. you should too. you're an amazing person, erik. we're all amazing people in here, we can all do something that everybody else cant. we can all say "I'M PROUD TO BE WHO I AM. Straight, Bi, Gay, Trans, WHATEVER!!! I'm proud to be who I am. .. and to make me even sexier, i'm a part of the matazone forums!!"

god i'm really going off on a whim here. blink.gif basically what i'm saying is--- well you only have a little while longer until you're 18, erik. when you turn 18 you're going to get your booty out of there and go off and live your own life. be who you want to be, do what/who you want to do. you just need to look toward the future. it's on it's way. it's coming. just a little while longer.

just hold out.
lygophilia
aawww, I'm sowwy acid...and mcsimong. *hugglez to you both* "Influencing" you to be you you are!!?? mad.gif Grr!... I admire you guys (and all other gays/bisexuals who have gay/bi pride) I wanna have gay pride dry.gif ...but I' not gay... wink.gif so it doesn't work so well... biggrin.gif It'll get better...
mcsimong
QUOTE (lygophilia @ Nov 15 2003, 09:47 PM)
aawww, I'm sowwy acid...and mcsimong. *hugglez to you both* "Influencing" you to be you you are!!?? mad.gif Grr!... I admire you guys (and all other gays/bisexuals who have gay/bi pride) I wanna have gay pride dry.gif ...but I' not gay... wink.gif so it doesn't work so well... biggrin.gif It'll get better...

hahaha
TigerLily013
QUOTE (prezgfish @ Nov 15 2003, 12:41 PM)
give the man the ultimatum that if he doesn't accept you for what you are and allow you to live your life then you will disown him. that he will no longer be your father he'll just be a guy who had a thing with your mom.

let him know that he will never be an influence in your life and if you ever have kids then he wont have anything to do with them either.

now if the bigot doesnt accept this and thinks your bluffing, you only have to do 1 thing to start off with, a small subtle thing.

stop calling him dad.

start referring to him by his firast name and refuse to use the d-word anymore.

even when talking to your sister reffer to him by his first name.

now he should start getting the point pretty damn quickly.

and if not, then well theres always captain sledge hammer to the rescue.

Sounds good to me, definitely something I would say along those lines.

Follow suit like that ^ perhaps Acid.
William Wallace
I hope your father chokes. You should cut yourself off from him, go out, get a job, live by yourself, and be free of his overrule. I would have ZERO tolerance of a man like him. dry.gif Stand up for your rights, Acid.
acidteardrop
sorry wallace...im not even 16 yet, not only would my dad not sign a work release form but no one would really hire my anyways. and what about my skooling? i cant exactly fulfill my goal of being a writer if i dont go to college.
William Wallace
Get hired or adopted by Mata. Then focus on college.
acidteardrop
good idea. oh wait, mata lives in england.
Silver Star Angel of Da Towers
I'm sorry... but I can't offer much advice since I'm not in this predicament. But I do encourage you to always be who u are no matter what anyone says.
antagony
*more hugs*

That's so awful. I haven't come out to my parents yet, and I really really hope they don't react like that when I do. Anyway, I think what prezgfish suggested was a good idea. If he's not going to accept you for who you are, you have no reason to accept him either. Don't recognize him as your father at all.

Good luck. I hope things get better for you soon, and you always have us to turn to. *even more hugs*
William Wallace
QUOTE (acidteardrop @ Nov 16 2003, 12:34 AM)
good idea. oh wait, mata lives in england.

Call Mata to wire you some money for Air Fares.

Acid, I have learned this: After so long a time, you must shuck off your parents as a snake sloughs off its skin. You outgrow your parents in the manner a snake does. It seems this has happened to you. You must do as you must.
spiffilicious05
Acid I know exactly how you feel and its horrible, I'm sorry ::huggles acid:: But no matter how you do it you have to stand up to your dad and not take that bs from him. I know its easier said than done but it needs to be done

::huggles:: good luck hun
Rattgirl
You can legally apply for emancipation from your parents when you're 14 because at that time, you are able to get a job. At that point, if the courts decide you have good reason to be emancipated, you will have your schooling and housing paid by the government, provided you go to school, get decent grades (like, above a C would be good), and maybe get a part-time job to show that you can be responsible. You'd have to pay for your own utilities, probably.

I know a couple people in the area who are emancipated. It's helped their lives very much for the better, and they usually are able to have a decent relationship with their parents after a while, because their parents realize it's their own flesh and blood they're throwing away, and they can't stand it. Plus, it's good for the parents to see that you're able to take care of yourself without them, so they can't control you....


Just a thought.
prezgfish
wait a minute people aproving of an idea I suggested

that aint right huh.gif
acidteardrop
thank you all for your input. but im afraid i cant. this is why:

usually my dad isnt like this. usually hes a pretty cool (if terribly embarassing) person. hes someoen i can share battles of wits with and such. this is the only tim hes really been like this...i care about my father...but this...this is so blindingly infuriating...gah!

yeah...basically thats why i cant. this iwll sort itself out.
prezgfish
there is a possibility that you're dad is just shocked and needs some time to calm down and let all the information go throw his brain if you give him time and if he is the man you described then i'm sure everything will be better again
Elisa
Ok here's my opinion. My senior year of high school i was president of my schools Gay-Straight Alliance so i have heard many stories simialr to this. For all of you on this site that said he needs to stand up to his parents you couldn't be more wrong! Acid is 15 and had a seemingly good relationship with his father prior to his coming out. Many parents deal with the news that their son or daughter is gay difficultly. And it's not because they were raised with "old philosophies" most of the time that's not the case. Most of the time it is as simple as they believe that it is morally wrong, period. Acid i'm going to take a guess and say that your parents are very religious? Anyway please don't take the advice of standing up to your parents that will only cause more problems and ultimately make you more depressed. Trust me! The only thing that you can do is to sit down with your father after he has cooled down some and TALK with him. Find out where he is coming from don't yell get frustrated (as soon as either of you do end the conversation and return to it when you are both calm) You need to work through this with your father, and if it is something that you can not do by talking with him seek professional help. There is no shame in seeing a psychologist to help you with your problems. This is strictly between you and your father. You shouldn't be turning to people you don't know on a forum for advice. It's unhealthy. Peers are often the worst people to go to for adivce on issues like this because they relate to closely to the topic at your level. Both you and your father need to understand where the other is coming from and that is the only way that you can work this out.
cheese is funny
tis a shame, ATD... it really is... i dont know what to tell you except wait for you father to calm down, and try to talk things out...

now, elisa posted two things i would like to respond to... whether she come back for a second post, i dont know, nor do i care... but i would like to make these points...



QUOTE
There is no shame in seeing a psychologist to help you with your problems.


i have to agree with that... a third party looking out for the good of the both of you might be quite helpful...

QUOTE
You shouldn't be turning to people you don't know on a forum for advice. It's unhealthy.


i have to disagree with that comepletely... this is one of the best places anyone could turn to for advice....
Edward_lover1200
*runs into topic late as always...I'm always late when the importaint s**t happens*

OH MY GOD!!!! what a jerk...I wish I know what to tell you...But I'm kidna in the same thing with MY parents...But when I find out something that works I'll let you know...but all I can say is trying to argue it doesn't work either *sighs* but the ironic thing is my parents are mad at me for being in a long distence relationship with Krys too lol...(sorry I thought it was ironit and might bring a not really happy but still a smile to your face even though I doubt it...sorry...)
*sighs* why dont parents just relize it's not them but their kids and that they have their own life *sighs deeply*

But anyway this isn't about me lol

damn I wish I had some advice babes sad.gif I hate not being able to help...But IF I do think of anything I'll let you know...*hugs and kisses* sorry... sad.gif



(BTW I dito what Cheese said about Disagreeing...I find it acuely (sp?) comforting to talk to strangers more then people I know...)
prezgfish
QUOTE (cheese is funny @ Nov 17 2003, 06:32 AM)
QUOTE
You shouldn't be turning to people you don't know on a forum for advice. It's unhealthy.


i have to disagree with that comepletely... this is one of the best places anyone could turn to for advice....

thats it cheese defend your bretheren
the lil' pie fairy
jeez acid honey *muchos luv and huggles* i don't know what your exact situation is like, but i know that one time, when i told my mum i would never not see rich because she didn't want me to, she did the same thing to me. i wasn't even allowed to use the house phone or internet on top of that. it really was infuriating but after a while i guess she got fed up of me doing what prez suggested (not calling her mum or talking to her unless absolutely necessary) and it calmed down.
i really think it'll sort itself out, but yeah i agree it'll take time, sure. i kinda feel sorry for your dad in a way, because if he can't accept it it's going to damage your relationship and it's him that'll lose out in the end.
just be strong hun *more hugs* you're in the right and you know it.
Elisa
obviously the best place a 15 year old kid could go to to get advice is to a bunch of people that tell him to disown his father, tell him that he could probably legally emancipate himself from his father, suggest ways that he could move out including going to live with the guy who owns this website. I am glad that you guys partially agreed with me, but i still stand beside this isn't the best place to get advice. Who ever tells a 15 year old to emancipate himself from his father for this issue is stupid, flat out. While i am a huge fan of the gay community and most gay people that i have met are the most terrific people that i know, i would be upset if my child turned out to be gay. Let's face reality here the gay lifestyle isn't easy and would i choose it for my son or daughter, no. Would i still support them, without a doubt. But many parents aren't like that and they have a hard time dealing with the news. The kid is 15 years old! While in the same sense he doesn't yet know what he wants out of life, i agree he shouldn't change who he is to accomodate his father. Don't throw your relationship with your father away becasue a bunch of people on a website told you you should. You don't want to hurt your father more than you already have. You need to work things out with him.
It's hard coming out to your parents and no one can ever try to tell you differently. Everyone is scared of how their parents will react, and more often than not your father's reaction is the reaction of many parents. You have to first let him work things out with himself and when he seems to be doing that, then you should sit down ( just you and you father) and talk. It doesn't even have to be the subject at hand to begin with, just talk to him. You have to prove yourself to father, and you won't be able to do that by lashing out and rebelling against him. If you can sit down with your father and just talk to him, you will prove a sense of maturity and give your father the security that you can handle the obvious challenges that come with your sexuality. Take time to yourself to and try to understand where your father is coming from. It's hard for him, once you can both understand eachother you will be able to work through any problems you have.
Phyllis
Hmmmm....

While I do think that getting advice on here can be helpful in many situations....I have to agree with Elisa and say that I don't think that the majority of the advice given on this thread (while very well-meaning) has been in ATD's best interest (though calling everyone stupid was completely uncalled for dry.gif ).

Getting emancipated when you are 15 and alienating your parents should usually be avoided at all costs. I'm glad to see that you aren't seriously entertaining that option. If you can talk to your father after he's calmed down and reach some sort of understanding, I'd say do it. I've known emancipated minors, and I do not envy their lives. If you can stand to live with your father, then do so. If he was being horribly abusive and beating you within an inch of your life...that'd be another thing (of course, then you could always call social services and get placed in a foster home rather than try to make it on your own)...but getting emancipated because he's put you on restriction for being bisexual? As horrible as what he's done is...I'd say that wouldn't be your best option.

Like Prez said before...if he's the man that you described, then I think he'll come around after you are both able to discuss this rationally. He may not like it, because he may be very traditional (I don't know...I don't know him)...but he may at least let you off of restriction after a little while.
Elisa
i didn't call everyone stupid. I just called the people stupid that were giving him bad advice. The people that told him to emanicpate himeself, move out, get a job, etc. are stupid for saying such a thing to a 15 year old. If everyone on here cared as much as they claim to no one would have suggested that to a 15 year old! You have to be smarter than that. Not that all of you are dumb, but you guys need to keep in mind that he is only 15, which i am going to say is rather young for some people on this forum.
Forums are a good outlet (on some topics) if it is your perogative to join. But to look for adivce on an issue such as this and get the response that he did, i would have to say it's just not smart to look to here for advice. The advice given to him had he followed it would ultimately put him in a deeper depression. You guys just weren't looking out for his best intrest and i am glad he had the sense to kinda of see that.
Phyllis
Calling anyone stupid doesn't go over very well here, Elisa.

I do not think they are stupid, even though I disagree with them that emancipation is a good idea for a 15 year old. You can disagree without insulting the other person, you know. dry.gif
Elisa
It is my opinion that their beliefs and advice are stupid. If they are smart they will realize that this is true about what they said and no one will be offended
the lil' pie fairy
elisa, i agree that emancipation advice may have been a bit extreme. but maybe a lot of people here have been through a lot of bad stuff with parents, and it's rubbed off. this doesn't make them stupid in any way. did you stop to think they answered with an extreme solution to lighten the situation a bit? maybe that wasn't why, and i don't mind saying i don't know why it was suggested, but i never thought those who did were stupid as i know they are all lovely people.

i'd be tempted to agree with them as i've felt like doing the same with my own parents too often, but i'm only 16 and it isn't feasibly possible or practical, especially as i'm also wanting to go to university and they have to pay.

people come to each other for advice on here because of the fact that people relate to those problems. if you can't empathise to someone's predicament, how can you begin to understand and try to offer advice in your own way? if people here are too close to the issue, what made you believe that you weren't and you were the best qualified person to give advice? part of the good thing about people on here is that they know you, as they have spent time talking to you.

judging from your post count of four, all your posts have been in this topic, and furthermore they all seem to have been trying to correct what you seem to see as an obvious inferiority to your own values.
you say "you guys" like you know the people here, when in reality you couldn't. i can't quite grasp what gave you the right to call them stupid either, as the way things are done around here a simple statement disagreeing would have sufficed, not a complete slur on the spirit here.

you say it's not smart to look here for advice? i recently asked here for help with a problem of my own, and thanks to some of the very same people that posted in this thread, i managed to solve it in a better way than i might have done otherwise.

i'm sorry if this is offending you, but it really gets to me to see you come in from nowhere, assume because you were president of your schools alliance that you are an authority on this matter, take it upon yourself to direct him and at the same time disregard all the concern everyone else here has shown, even if it is misplaced in your opinion. what made you think he will choose to listen to you and suddenly agree that we were stupid, and that your advice will solve this? a lot of people made remarks similar to yours way before you even looked at this thread, and some of those were your supposed "stupid" people.

and finally, your last post? i find it so arrogant for you to say
QUOTE
if they are smart they will realize that this is true about what they said and no one will be offended

what gives you the right to assume it IS true? as a newcomer here, or on any other forum, i would never have the nerve to start as you have, and i'm guessing by your persistant refusal to back down a little, in the face of hints and then facts from two well-respected members, cheese and candice, that what you've said doesn't go down well here, as candice's posts will have shown you if you took time to read them properly.

again, i'm sorry if it offends you, but i'm not sorry for saying it. the people here are all great, and i have a lot of respect for them, so please, if you joined for a purpose, for any length of time, learn to respect other people's opinions, and please stop referring to them as stupid, however many of them you meant. a better way to do that is to PM someone individually. not to announce it on the thread.

(sorry to everyone, and especially acid, for this being a huge rant a bit off topic on this thread, if i'm out of line PM me and i'll most probably see your point and apologise, but this really got to me)
Faerieryn
I agree with giving it some time. Have you tried writing him a letter? It gives you time to think carefully about what you need to say and also gives you the chance to say it without gettig overly emotional. IF you started off rationally with him I can bet you didn't stay that way towards the end of the conversation an that might have scared him even more. Plus any parent will tell you that facing up to the fact that your child even has a sexuality, whether it be gay, straight or bi is enoug to make most have a nervous breakdown. Do you have any relatives that could maybe mediate for you? This is also a good idea as it gives you an impartial witness who can say when one or the other of you is loosing it (as I'm sure you may have at some point, hell I know I would) I hope this has been helpful
luv Faerieryn
P.S I hope all goes well
P.P.S I do not have any children despite what I have just written so if it doesn't make any sense jsut ignore me
p.p.P.S HUUUUUUGSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!
gerbilfromhell
ok, a few comments:

acid: i'm really, really sorry about that. i'd suggest just waiting awhile for your father to realise that hey, just cause you're bi doesn't make you any different than you were before he found out. THEN try and talk to him. i know i have NO experience with this, but i can imagine talking to him while he's still trying to digest the news isn't going to help and will probably hurt things. of course, the opposite end, never talking to him again and moving out, will PROBABLY end up being just as hurtful.

elisa: you raise some good points. at the same time, you insulted prez. if you read the rules, you'll see that insulting a forumite isn't allowed here. whether it's your opinion that you think prez is stupid doesn't really matter. you can disagree with him without insulting him.
i'd also like to disagree with the 'peers are the worst people to turn to' thing. although acid might not have been here for an EXTREMELY long time, i at least think that he's been here long enough that we can get a sense of his life. we at least know that. we might not be as good as professionals (athough professionals don't really know the patient's history in the same way that friends do), but we're definitelly not the worst. and you might not have noticed ("a bunch of people that tell him to disown his father, tell him that he could probably legally emancipate himself from his father", but not all of us think that acid should disown his father.
"suggest ways that he could move out including going to live with the guy who owns this website" i doubt that whoever said that (unless, of course, it was mata) was serious.
Elisa
ok....first off i insulted no one nor did i specifically insult prez, the comment was a general statement directed at no one inparticular and also not directed at everyone...i just said that anyone who says what was said to acid (about moving out etc.) is stupid. if you take that as an insult that it your perogative. i'm sorry but to say something like that to a 15 year old is stupid. Nothing can possibly change that. It was not meant so much as an insult but more so as a fact. however if you would like me to insult all of you i could do that as well, but i won't. second i recognize that not everyone agreed that he should move out of his house, i never said that everyone did nor did i say that everyone on this site is stupid. It is my honest feeling that no matter how much you talk to these people online you will never understand their life fully. You think you might have a good understanding but i don't think that any of you really do. and if you do have such an understanding of this kids life as you say you do, no one of you would have suggested the things that were. It's that simple.
Also i said that peers in general are often the worst people to go to for the exact same reason that you said he should essentially. It is again in my opinion that peers are often times the worst people to go to because as i stated previously they understand the situation moreso at your level. and that hinders the ability of one to see both sides of the story. I was always the type of person to go to my peers for advice and often times ended up having to defend my realtionship to them becuase they were unable to see both sides of the story and there for could not offer proper adivce. That comment was in no way a slur to anyone here. As i said i believe that about ALL peers in general.

I think that i made very valid points and offered the best advice i could. The purpose of my post was not to call everyone stupid on this site. You all took it upon yourselves to take that one line out of my post and flame me for it. I have seen and heard and helped many people in this exact same situation. You all seem to want to take away my credibility because i think that a couple people are stupid for saying something to this kid. Not everyone on this site is smart, and by making the above mentioned comment you do not prove your intelligince.

I am not so naive as to think that acid will take my advice because i think that he should. He can take any of the above mentioned advice and would probably be more apt to take the advice of the people that he has a closer realtionship on this site. i do feel that what i and a couple other people have said is the best advice that any one could give and would make him the happiest in the long run, and is also looking out for the well-being of this kid moreso than the other advice that was given. But Acid doesn't have to listen to me. I just wouldn't want to read a post in a year or so where he has an irreparable relationship with his father. Despite what you all may think of me i am honestly concerned about the well being of this kid and think it would be tragic if his relationship could have been saved but wasn't because he took some really bad advice.
Elisa
Faerieryn.....
QUOTE
Do you have any relatives that could maybe mediate for you? This is also a good idea as it gives you an impartial witness who can say when one or the other of you is loosing it


Please clarify your post....are you suggesting that it is ok to argue about the topic if there is someone there to mediate it? I'm not sure i understand your post. if that is what you are suggesting, i strongly disagree with you. I don't think that it would help to have someone in this conversation to say "hey calm down your losing it" i'm not too sure that would be as helpful as you think it would. I think that if either starts to "lose it" they should just walk away from the conversation and continue it later. I strongly feel that the only people that should be involved in this conversation are Acid and his father, and if need be (which it might very well be needed) a psychologist. The best way i have found to talk about an issue like this is to start a conversation about anything, anything at all and develop an actual back-and-forth conversation. If you are able to hold a normal conversation you can then bring the subject forward. Not so much in a "by the way dad i resent you for what you are doing" manner but in a "tell me what you feel about it" manner. Learn where he is coming from. Beileve i made the mistake of telling my father i was scared of him and ended up seeing a psychiatrist for my unhealthy realtionship with my parents. I don't think that's the route you would want to take. Prove your maturity by wanting to know his side of the story not trying to prove him wrong.

Again Faerieryn i am very unclear as to your intentions and what you meant by your post, can ya clairfy it a little for me??
gerbilfromhell
"Who ever tells a 15 year old to emancipate himself from his father for this issue is stupid, flat out."

that was directed at prez and anyone who agreed with him, considering he JUST said what that comment ws directed at. an loosely veiled insult is an insult nonetheless. and we're not flaming you, we're just pointing out that that violates the rules.

"i'm sorry but to say something like that to a 15 year old is stupid. Nothing can possibly change that."
you just don't seem to understand that this is only your personal opinion and not a fact. no matter how much 'experience' you have with this, it is only your opinion what advice is bad and what is good for a situation you know very little about. nothing can change THAT

look, i'm not trying to sound angry with you. a lot of people have to adjust to this forum's rules about no flaming/insulting/hatred of groups, which doesn't exist on a lot of forums. just try and tone down what you say to get rid of the insults, ok? smile.gif

ok, back on topic:
it's not necessarily true that all peers can't see both sides of an issue. while it's true that we're hearing this issue from acid's perspecitive, you might notice that many people did at at least some point in their post take it from the father's perspective.
SPS said "he probably sees it as some sort of slur against his masculinity, if you're his only son then it stands to reason he might have thought he's gone wrong somewhere along the line or not have been very attentive, i'd imagine it'd be a fairly big thing to have your child come out and tell you they're bisexual...esspecially for his generation, give it time, he'll probably accept it eventually"
he's looking at the father's perspective too.


while i do agree that he needs to talk it over with his father (as i've said before) another person there to make sure that it doesn't get out of hand (but doesn't say anything else) might not be such a terrible idea. many people, when they start to get angry, really can't stop, despite how much it's going to cost them in the long run.
Faerieryn
the reason I suggested that another person in the room to "mediate" is that is usally extremely difficult to walk away from a heated xoversation and these do have a tendancy to turn into arguments. May be a realtive might not be the best person I admit, as they are probably less likely to be as impartial as they claim to be, but having someone around just to say cool it, calm down to either parties may be beneficial
I hope this clarifies my post and as I said before. I don't claim to be an expert I am only suggesting alternatives so that acid can find the best way for him to deal with this. At the end of the day it is not me, or anyone else this is happeneing to, it is acid and whatever he decides to do I hope it goes well
acidteardrop
look, i didnt mean to start a contest of bash-the-noob.

Elisa...i respect your opinion, but im not going ot see anyone who gets paid gobs of money to pretend to care, then does a sh*tty job of it.
also, i dont think it wise to insult the REGULARS on this site...you have a respected opinion that should have been less flammatory. yes, tehre is a name for that, its called flaming. and if that wouldnt be considered flaming, that is most DEFINITELY trolling. so stop it please.
AND elisa...these peopel ARE my family, these people (most of them) care about my health etc. and i lvoe them all quite dearly. note that this is in the daily life forum: this happened as part of my daily life. id say daily life is slightly inacfcurately named cos we arent ehre to post about our daily life, so much as what happens out of the ordinary. im active on many other forums, but this is indeed the only one i trust the REGULARS enough with this kind of advice. the emancipation thing was a SUGGESTION! dont take ti so seriously, it was their opinion, and if they arent entitled to an opinion neither are you.
im not being flammatory or trolling when i say: you are a noob here. you have NO right to; 1)cal lsomeone stupid...anyone at all, 2)self glorify yourself as your advice is the only advice that counts...cos i think, to me, yours is the most recockulous.
i sat down with him (unwillingly, more like he sat down with me) last night (i was on webcam for those of you who saw) and afterwards i felt like killing myself.
yes, i care about him, and usually hes a good person, but this whole thing is NTO something i can talk about with him. hes revoked ALL of my social life except this forum and yahoo (skools a given, but i dont reallly have any freinds there nor do i see any of the just barely made freinds hardly at all).

i tahink you all for your advice, i take it to heart (yes, even the emancipation thing) and have discounted what will not work for me.

you see...if i emancipate myself, HA! and for something as diminutive(sp?) as this, but if i did then it would totally ruin my future. i want to spend the rest of my life with krys...and that would become oh-so-much-harder if i did that.

P.S.: elisa...this forum is a lot closer than you may think. there are a few couples on this forum (like magikeyes and I) and were all really great freinds (most of us *kicks a few peopel under the table*). please, read around, get to know us, before you even CONSIDER such a heinous act as bashing us...and even then you cant bash us...its against the rulz.

also, he was joking about that moving in with mata thing (i think...). first off:i dont think mata and sues will be too keen on me being around in their affairs (NOTmeant sexually), secodn: mata hardly knows me...im the person who emailed him a few times and then joined the forums...he gets so many people like that its not even funny (again, i think...) and third: i wouldnt want to change my life THAT drastically, even though that would be the COOLEST thing in the world (next to movign out to cali and living with krys forever)

P.P.S.:thank you all, i love you muchly!
FurryMammal
i never usually post lots on these personal issue things, so first off forgive me if i ramble happy.gif

now.... from what ive read the best ideas are the ones about a calmer, rational appraoch to the situation. for example the letter. and the idea of emancipation aint all that bright, as elisa said, but thats already been pointed out.

but.... guys, why are you ganging up on elisa? she made some valid points, and although you may disagree with her calling people stupid.... well, are you saying none of you have ever insulted another on this forum? i mean stupid aint exactly the most insulting word she could have used. and even so, i dont think we should metaphorically drain her blood and replace it with tizer now, should we?

but anyway... as to whether or not someone should post on the forums about personal dilemmas and problems, hell its personal choice. i dont post every arguement, or break up, or depression i go through in my life on the board. in fact i never do smile.gif but if people choose to then why not.

next point is, why does every thread like this (meaning personal problems, usually railing against parents, or something) end up in someone insulting each other? or arguing about the advice they give? sure, what acids going through is tough (i mean... jesus its downright outrageous what his fathers doing) and it certainly sounds it, but it aint the end of the world for everyone. so why are you all arguing with a new person who offered their opinion?

because (and this is the part where i start quoting rolleyes.gif ) people are saying stuff like this (no offence to people who posted this stuff)

QUOTE
the only one i trust the REGULARS enough with this kind of advice
QUOTE
as a newcomer here, or on any other forum, i would never have the nerve to start as you have, and i'm guessing by your persistant refusal to back down a little, in the face of hints and then facts from two well-respected members


to my eyes, these posts are insinuating that regular posters in this forum are likely to offer better advice, or they are to be held in a higher regard. its just my interpretation, but isnt elisa just as likely to give good advice as any other on here? nobodys perfect.

anyway, iv rambled enough biggrin.gif if anyone wants to disagree with me, feel free. my side of the arguement is probably full of holes anyway.

ps. sorry about the large amount of (brackets) i got carried away wink.gif
Sir Psycho Sexy
QUOTE (acidteardrop @ Nov 18 2003, 08:16 PM)
*kicks a few peopel under the table*

ow! stop kicking me!!! i'm friendly tongue.gif
JJay
QUOTE (acidteardrop @ Nov 18 2003, 08:16 PM)
also, i dont think it wise to insult the REGULARS on this site...you have a respected opinion that should have been less flammatory. yes, tehre is a name for that, its called flaming. and if that wouldnt be considered flaming, that is most DEFINITELY trolling. so stop it please.
AND elisa...these peopel ARE my family, these people (most of them) care about my health etc. and i lvoe them all quite dearly. note that this is in the daily life forum: this happened as part of my daily life. id say daily life is slightly inacfcurately named cos we arent ehre to post about our daily life, so much as what happens out of the ordinary. im active on many other forums, but this is indeed the only one i trust the REGULARS enough with this kind of advice. the emancipation thing was a SUGGESTION! dont take ti so seriously, it was their opinion, and if they arent entitled to an opinion neither are you.

This is exactly what is wrong with this forum. Over 90% of the members are depressed and/or need some form of pyschological help. Rather than getting professional help they come here with other people who are in need of help themselves and feel right at home to sulk together in their pyschological problems. It causes a continual cycle that can't be broken unless you leave the forum, get involved with your REAL family with people who can actually sit down and talk to you rather than put up a front for their own problems. This forum is so unhealthy.
Debaser
QUOTE (JJay @ Nov 18 2003, 09:40 PM)
QUOTE (acidteardrop @ Nov 18 2003, 08:16 PM)
also, i dont think it wise to insult the REGULARS on this site...you have a respected opinion that should have been less flammatory.  yes, tehre is a name for that, its called flaming.  and if that wouldnt be considered flaming, that is most DEFINITELY trolling.  so stop it please.
AND elisa...these peopel ARE my family, these people (most of them) care about my health etc.  and i lvoe them all quite dearly.  note that this is in the daily life forum: this happened as part of my daily life.  id say daily life is slightly inacfcurately named cos we arent ehre to post about our daily life, so much as what happens out of the ordinary.  im active on many other forums, but this is indeed the only one i trust the REGULARS enough with this kind of advice.  the emancipation thing was a SUGGESTION!  dont take ti so seriously, it was their opinion, and if they arent entitled to an opinion neither are you.

This is exactly what is wrong with this forum. Over 90% of the members are depressed and/or need some form of pyschological help. Rather than getting professional help they come here with other people who are in need of help themselves and feel right at home to sulk together in their pyschological problems. It causes a continual cycle that can't be broken unless you leave the forum, get involved with your REAL family with people who can actually sit down and talk to you rather than put up a front for their own problems. This forum is so unhealthy.

Which is why you've come back after having your account banned twice, obviously.
ravein
wow...
okay...Acid.. first off.. take a breath.. it will be okay. When I came out to my mom.. it was rough.. but we where able to sit down and talk it out. What is important is you do what is right for YOU and your family. You have a wonderful group of people here who love you and if you need to vent we are here. But I would suggest that you try whatever possible to resolve things with your pops. You only get one (biological anyway) I suggest you do everything reasonable to save your relationship. He is just as scared as you are. I is unsure of your future.. he is having to rewrite all his plans.. parents have expectations for their children.. much like you have expectations... when things don't work out they get disappointed just like you do. But he is your father.. and he loves you. Try everything you can to save your relationship. If it doesn't work and there is no happy ending in site you may want to look at living with family until things cool off. Also look into support groups like PFLAG...
Elisa, while you opinion should be respected.. other peoples should as well. How would you have reacted if someone said that your advice was stupid and senseless. Granted that portion seems to be harped on a bit.. I have seen this many times... it doesn't help to come into a unknown situation and insult (even if it was a trivial insult) someone's group of friends... Acid is not going to be inclined to take your advice now. I know you where just trying to help, I think maybe different wording would have helped more. BUT.. you are right.. the best way to resolve this is dialogue... it is really the only healthy way.
I hope this all works out for you acid.. in the end that is really what matters.
PM me if you need to talk.
prezgfish
QUOTE (gerbilfromhell @ Nov 18 2003, 11:12 AM)
"Who ever tells a 15 year old to emancipate himself from his father for this issue is stupid, flat out."

that was directed at prez and anyone who agreed with him, considering he JUST said what that comment ws directed at. an loosely veiled insult is an insult nonetheless. and we're not flaming you, we're just pointing out that that violates the rules.

hey gerbil thanks for defending me and all but it wasnt me that suggested emancipation i believe it may have been william wallace.

i suggested a subtle way of getting back at his dad making him feel as bad as he made ATD feel

but anyway noob bashing not a fun sport
either is a repetitive argument
or declaring that you are right and the rest of the world should obey

ATD i am sorry that this thread which obviosly meant a lot to you was tarnished in this way on behalf of the people responsible i apologise and hope that your life returns to normal with one happy pappy comfortable with your sexual preferance
Elisa
ok...posting really isn't that hard elisa
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