IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

 Forum Rules 
4 Pages V   1 2 3 > »   
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> The Death Of The Pope
saucy_tara
post Apr 2 2005, 08:34 PM
Post #1


Destructogirl...
************

Group: Moderators
Posts: 1,547
Joined: 11-March 03
From: Innsmouth
Member No.: 124
Gender: Female



So, Pope John Paul II died tonight, and although he did a lot of good, Im hoping the more conservative issues of his papacy died with him.
Im looking forward to see what the next pontiff has to say about homosexuality and marriage for priests in the Catholic church.
The late Pope did a lot in bringing certain religions together, I wonder if his successor will do the same or if the Catholic church will crumble without John Paul...I hope it can move on and become more liberal in it's approach to issues such as abortion and the like.
What do you think?


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
zivane
post Apr 2 2005, 08:48 PM
Post #2


Goddess of Purple Froot Loops
******

Group: Established Members
Posts: 213
Joined: 13-March 05
From: various, Jacksonville, Florida, USA, Earth, solar system, Milky Way galaxy, Universe
Member No.: 1,682
Gender: Female



I highly doubt it. I do believe that we are entering, for a possibly brief time, depending on the president of the US in 2008 and what China does to the world economy, an incredibly conservative time. In fact, we are really in it.

I think that abortion will still be the "bad thing to do" in the conservative school of thought. I honestly hope though, that the Catholic church has a reform within the next hundred years. But, I doubt it will happen. There is too much conservative power with or without the Pope.

I do hope that whoever comes in next can do more to bring peace among the opposing sides of most any debate. I hope that whoever comes in next can help teach the world or at least show the world, how to be accepting instead of condemning. (sp?)


--------------------
hawtt?! perfect ^.^

niao! ^.^ mr. cheeseiemooseys n00b - kinda, eh?

t3h uber 1337 LJ monster Little Gamers Web Comic My Space
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
little_bear
post Apr 2 2005, 08:51 PM
Post #3


I could have written a short novel by this point
************

Group: Banned
Posts: 1,748
Joined: 19-October 04
From: Shropshire, UK.
Member No.: 1,378
Gender: Male



What did he actually do?


--------------------
People should not be afraid of their governments, governments should be afraid of their people.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
tptcow
post Apr 2 2005, 08:56 PM
Post #4


Savior on the Blood Church St. Petersburg, Russia
*******

Group: Established Members
Posts: 343
Joined: 1-March 04
From: Elizabethtown/Bowling Green, Ky
Member No.: 978
Gender: Male



I think the Church can and will continue to become more open. The Second Vatican counsul took place many years ago and it is a recent event within the Church's history so change will take time.

Don't get angry with me, but I was actually suprised someone posted something about Pope John Paul II's death. I wouldn't doubt that some of you are happy. Its just the feeling I get from being here. So, I'm leaving for good.


--------------------
Western Kentucky University
Facebook
Xanga
Formerly: Trumpetperson
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
little_bear
post Apr 2 2005, 08:57 PM
Post #5


I could have written a short novel by this point
************

Group: Banned
Posts: 1,748
Joined: 19-October 04
From: Shropshire, UK.
Member No.: 1,378
Gender: Male



QUOTE (trumpetperson @ Apr 2 2005, 09:56 PM)
I think the Church can and will continue to become more open.  The Second Vatican counsul took place many years ago and it is a recent event within the Church's history so change will take time.

Don't get angry with me, but I was actually suprised someone posted something about Pope John Paul II's death. I wouldn't doubt that some of you are happy. Its just the feeling I get from being here. So, I'm leaving for good.
*


Eh? Why're you leaving because someone posted about his death. It's an issue that warrents discussion.


--------------------
People should not be afraid of their governments, governments should be afraid of their people.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
tptcow
post Apr 2 2005, 09:00 PM
Post #6


Savior on the Blood Church St. Petersburg, Russia
*******

Group: Established Members
Posts: 343
Joined: 1-March 04
From: Elizabethtown/Bowling Green, Ky
Member No.: 978
Gender: Male



lol, no

I'm leaving because I want to, not because of this. I'm sorry if that seemed a little stupid, but sometimes my emotions can get a hold of me and that was one of those times. So forgive me..smile.gif


--------------------
Western Kentucky University
Facebook
Xanga
Formerly: Trumpetperson
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
little_bear
post Apr 2 2005, 09:06 PM
Post #7


I could have written a short novel by this point
************

Group: Banned
Posts: 1,748
Joined: 19-October 04
From: Shropshire, UK.
Member No.: 1,378
Gender: Male



QUOTE (trumpetperson @ Apr 2 2005, 10:00 PM)
lol, no

I'm leaving because I want to, not because of this. I'm sorry if that seemed a little stupid, but sometimes my emotions can get a hold of me and that was one of those times. So forgive me..smile.gif
*

Ah, ok. I hope you'll reconsider your decision though. smile.gif


--------------------
People should not be afraid of their governments, governments should be afraid of their people.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
saucy_tara
post Apr 2 2005, 09:26 PM
Post #8


Destructogirl...
************

Group: Moderators
Posts: 1,547
Joined: 11-March 03
From: Innsmouth
Member No.: 124
Gender: Female



Trumpetperson, I'm sorry if posting so soon after the Pope's passing had a personal effect on you, I started this topic as a discussion on how the Church will move forward, and the changes that may occur as a result of the papacy of John Paul II.
It most definately was not a cue for people to attack the Catholic church in any way. Yes, there is a lot of religious diversity on the forums but not, I hope, religious intolerance.

I hope you will reconsider your decision, you are a valued member of the forums and we wouldn't want to see you go...


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mata
post Apr 3 2005, 12:39 AM
Post #9


'Trouble Down Pit' now online!
***************

Group: Admin
Posts: 10,179
Joined: 22-February 03
From: Southern UK
Member No.: 1
Gender: Male



Although I highly doubt it will happen, I would certainly hope that a new pope would reconsider Catholicism's stance on contraception for the sake of the African nations.

It is currently believed that 80% of 15 year-olds in some regions will die of AIDs. This is a disease that can have its infection rates severely limited with a little bit of common sense. At this rate there won't be anyone left in Africa to Catholic, and I'm pretty sure that wasn't in God's plan.

I'm going to be a little blunt here: I was watching the first live drama broadcast by the BBC in twenty years this evening when a banner flashes up on screen saying that there is a 'major news announcement on BBC News 24'. I know that the Pope's death was of great significance to Catholics around the world, but I was a little puzzled by the wording. Was this a major news announcement? I'd consider the WTC attacks to easily fall into that category, and the boxing day tsunami too, but a massively ill 84 year-old finally getting the peace he needed (that I suspect it would have been nicer for him to have found a few years ago; slow deterioration of health isn't nice for anyone) didn't strike me as a major news event.

I'm sorry if that view seems really cold, but judging by the descriptions of his health over the last couple of weeks I was amazed to find he wasn't dead everytime I woke up in the morning. It is certainly global news, but the term 'major' spoke to me as meaning something that was really tragic rather than a natural and expected event finally happening. It's sad when anyone dies, but he was clearly suffering a great deal, so I'm happy for him that that has ended. I just hope that whoever follows him into the big chair has the sense to not inflict a similar level of suffering on millions of Africans. I bet they don't get nearly as many people mourning them.


--------------------
Trouble Down Pit: Still updated every Monday and Friday
The Matazone Games blog
The Matazone Shop The Matazone Blog
The Matazone Corset Shop: Snobz corsets at 10% off their recommended price!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
CommieBastard
post Apr 3 2005, 12:57 AM
Post #10


Remorseless posting machine
*************

Group: Moderators
Posts: 5,749
Joined: 19-July 03
From: Bloody London
Member No.: 466
Gender: Male



Mata: I think your logic is a bit off there. Yes, the Vatican condemns condom use as sinful. The Vatican also says that you should only have sex within a monogamous marriage. Really, if you follow all of the Vatican's rules, you're extremely unlikely to get AIDS.


--------------------
Every sort of expert knowledge and every inquiry, and similarly every action and undertaking, seems to seek some good. Because of that, people are right to affirm that the good is 'that which all things seek'...
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
depressed lonely...
post Apr 3 2005, 01:20 AM
Post #11


Depressed, Lonely and getting crazier by the day!
**********

Group: Established Members
Posts: 907
Joined: 14-November 04
From: Armidale NSW Australia
Member No.: 1,469
Gender: Female



I'm glad he died.
It has been really upsetting me that every time I turn on the TV for the last week I'm being told how another part of him has failed.
I'm interested in wheather the wispers I've heard about the next pope geting out before they die are true. I certainly hope so.
I'm sure this is a sad day for religious people but I hope you see the good in it because it is wrong that this man was alowed to publicly detieriorate in that way.


--------------------
Vote Brian Molko for ruler of the whole world in 2007
I'm only wearing black till they make something darker
There's no I in team but there is a ME if you re-arange the letters!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
CommieBastard
post Apr 3 2005, 01:23 AM
Post #12


Remorseless posting machine
*************

Group: Moderators
Posts: 5,749
Joined: 19-July 03
From: Bloody London
Member No.: 466
Gender: Male



DLCP: the Pope may retire if he wishes, and doesn't need anybody's permission or approval to do so. However, when he's elected to the papacy, it's expected that he'll serve as long as he is able to do so. John Paul II was reportedly fully lucid until his last days, so it was appropriate for him to remain in office.


--------------------
Every sort of expert knowledge and every inquiry, and similarly every action and undertaking, seems to seek some good. Because of that, people are right to affirm that the good is 'that which all things seek'...
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mata
post Apr 3 2005, 02:49 AM
Post #13


'Trouble Down Pit' now online!
***************

Group: Admin
Posts: 10,179
Joined: 22-February 03
From: Southern UK
Member No.: 1
Gender: Male



QUOTE (CommieBastard @ Apr 3 2005, 12:57 AM)
Mata:  I think your logic is a bit off there. Yes, the Vatican condemns condom use as sinful. The Vatican also says that you should only have sex within a monogamous marriage. Really, if you follow all of the Vatican's rules, you're extremely unlikely to get AIDS.
*

Fair point, but it does rather ignore the social situation in Africa.

The Bush presidency suggests a similar thing in their 'ABC' campaign for Africa - A for abstinence, B for being faithful, and C is for condoms, always in that order. Unfortunately, America only suggests condoms to prostitutes and drug addicts, with abstinence for all single people.

The problem is that there is a culture in the men in Africa for having girlfriends in other towns, so while the woman may be faithful, it's not so likely that the man will be. Discouraging the use of condoms doesn't do anyone any favours, and the infection rates in Africa suggest that monogamy is possibly even less popular than it is here. The best and most realistic defence is to encourage the use of condoms by everyone whenever possible. Putting it as a distant third, that is only suggested for the highest risk people, does nothing to help the average person. That might be a reasonable approach if the spread of HIV were under control but it simply isn't.


--------------------
Trouble Down Pit: Still updated every Monday and Friday
The Matazone Games blog
The Matazone Shop The Matazone Blog
The Matazone Corset Shop: Snobz corsets at 10% off their recommended price!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
believe
post Apr 3 2005, 03:02 AM
Post #14


the token conservative
*********

Group: Established Members
Posts: 702
Joined: 16-January 05
From: A castle in the sky.
Member No.: 1,594
Gender: Female



I'm half afraid to post this, but I'm hoping the church doesn't change its stance on all its issues. Marriage for priests isn't in the Bible as such (beyond it being better if you can happily devote yourself to God), but for those issues that are such as seuxality and abortion, I hope it doesn't change too much. There's a difference between adjusting to help people (Such as sex ed, fighting violence/abusive behavior toward people with differences, ect) and rewriting your holy book.

This thread prompted me to research though. I'd watched a TV program claiming that besides his efforts for peace, that he'd appointed more bishops/something of different races and cultures than any other pope. I found a listing of the cultural makeup of the elected ones, but not if it was in greater or lesser numbers than previous popes. It was a fascinating read though, especially of his experiences with women and response to women within the church.

Edit- And I agree with you about Africa, Mata. If people were following a single religion consistently and the culture supported it, that would be one thing. But the situation in Africa is so out of control in so many places. A lot people aren't even living long enough to be preached too. I'd love for people to follow abstinence, but they need to be alive long enough to realize its possible. wink.gif


--------------------
Mr.Teapot is my e-daddy, Jaq is my e-sister and Vic is my e-husband! syuu is our e-daughter.

Pit Bulls & BSL Urban Legends Fight BSL

We must always fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil that we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men.
- The Boondock Saints


Ange is the devil on my shoulder.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
depressed lonely...
post Apr 3 2005, 05:22 AM
Post #15


Depressed, Lonely and getting crazier by the day!
**********

Group: Established Members
Posts: 907
Joined: 14-November 04
From: Armidale NSW Australia
Member No.: 1,469
Gender: Female



I watched a doco about the spread of AIDS in africa and when they adked the local priests why people were getting AIDS their answer was "they're sinful" and what about the children born with AIDS "their parents are sinful and if they stop God will fix their kids"
That is a load of irisponsible garbage and the pope knowing the situation and knowing his religion shpuld have said when it was brought to him that it was OK to use condoms.
The various missionarys should also be held responsible for converting people in such a way that they can't rationally say like most of the western world thats crap don't believe that and thats not.


--------------------
Vote Brian Molko for ruler of the whole world in 2007
I'm only wearing black till they make something darker
There's no I in team but there is a ME if you re-arange the letters!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Quoth(The Raven)
post Apr 3 2005, 06:51 AM
Post #16


Meow!
************

Group: Established Members
Posts: 3,694
Joined: 17-September 04
From: The land of the fireant
Member No.: 1,296
Gender: Secret



I'm glad that the man has finally gotten the peace he deserves... I'm against suffering of any kind. Death is highly misunderstood, in this regard. We look on it as the worst thing that can happen, but it can be a form of healing, as well. Death is a release, not a punishment.

As for the Catholic church... What can I say about an institution that persecuted a scientist (Galileo), for telling the truth, then waits nearly a thousand years before admitting that it "May" have made a mistake? The Catholic church has always been behind the rest of the world, and will always be, I think.

And, how can they justify having the head of the church living in luxury, when so many of their followers are poor, and/or dying, when a little cash flow could remedy that state of affairs? It's one of the oldest pyramid schemes in existance, to my way of thinking...

Sorry, but I tend to be Anti-organised religion in general, and can't stand it when religious figures take advantage of their parishiners. The Catholic church needs to get off it's collective butt, sell off a few paintings, a few rings, and a few goldplated fixtures, and actually LIVE it's commitment to God's children, rather than just giving lipservice to it.

The soapbox is now free...


--------------------
Arthur, Gwen, and Quoth...Onwards to 4000 posts!Quoth is Cath's noob - what was she thinking?:)Duckflaps!Watch out for low flying kittens!'Dance, Monkey, Dance!' Well, this monkey don't dance no more!Never say 'die'... except as a command! I adopted Insaneperc!What kind of fool do you take me for? I don't know. How many kinds are there?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
believe
post Apr 3 2005, 09:23 AM
Post #17


the token conservative
*********

Group: Established Members
Posts: 702
Joined: 16-January 05
From: A castle in the sky.
Member No.: 1,594
Gender: Female



I agree Quoth. Its my problem with tele-evangelists and any rather wealthy churches.


--------------------
Mr.Teapot is my e-daddy, Jaq is my e-sister and Vic is my e-husband! syuu is our e-daughter.

Pit Bulls & BSL Urban Legends Fight BSL

We must always fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil that we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men.
- The Boondock Saints


Ange is the devil on my shoulder.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
CommieBastard
post Apr 3 2005, 09:49 AM
Post #18


Remorseless posting machine
*************

Group: Moderators
Posts: 5,749
Joined: 19-July 03
From: Bloody London
Member No.: 466
Gender: Male



Problem is, for the Church leaders to live in luxury is actually supported Biblically.


--------------------
Every sort of expert knowledge and every inquiry, and similarly every action and undertaking, seems to seek some good. Because of that, people are right to affirm that the good is 'that which all things seek'...
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Tarantio
post Apr 3 2005, 10:09 AM
Post #19


NyanNyanNyan
************

Group: Established Members
Posts: 2,157
Joined: 28-March 03
From: Dundee
Member No.: 191
Gender: Male



I never did get the positive message in that. It basically sounds like jee whiz saying that he's more important than the poor because he's about to kick the bucket, and hence implies that their deaths, and as such their lives, are inconsequential. Nice coming from a man who was the "hope of all humanity"... saviour? more like saver...


--------------------
When, will I, will I be famous?

I CAN'T ANSWER THAT, I CAN'T ANSWER THAT.

-Tara and DACE sing is available from DACETRON ltd.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Polocrunch
post Apr 3 2005, 10:40 AM
Post #20


Has gone untreated for blurriness since 1986
************

Group: Established Members
Posts: 1,921
Joined: 3-August 03
Member No.: 505
Gender: Secret



The chances of the next Pope being a reformer are pretty low, I'd guess. All (or most) of the current Cardinals were appointed by JPII and are likely to hold similarly conservative opinions to him. Additionally, it is Vatican tradition to appoint an older Pope after one who has had a long term, so the next one will probably only last a decade and would not have time to start a major debate on Church doctrine. Plus, older people tend to be more conservative, as is always the way.

And I seriously doubt that the Church's position on homosexuality is ever likely to change: the Bible is pretty clear on what it thinks about homosexual behaviour. The Catholic Church also has a lot of conservative 'ballast' in its clergy and laity, so change is likely to risk serious schisms and find moves to liberalise massively unpopular.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Forever Unknown
post Apr 3 2005, 10:46 AM
Post #21


Microwave your children
***********

Group: Established Members
Posts: 1,082
Joined: 14-June 04
From: Hampshire, UK
Member No.: 1,164



I'm not overly bothered by the Pope's death. I'm not a huge supporter of Catholicism and find their beliefs to be severe and archaic.

This, sadly, is not going to change with a new Pope, I don't think. A lot of Catholics are, and will continue to be, very strongly opposed to homosexuality, contraception, abortion, euthanasia, etc. For the next one to come along and say 'Right. Enough of that, that's all crap' could easily provoke a moral outcry from the Catholic community, as that's they way they've done it for hundreds of years and that's what it says in the Bible. I don't think this new Pope can do much of anything until the followers themselves come 'round to a different way of thinking. He may be able to ease a little leniency in, but I don't think there's going to be a huge change in the Catholic church for a long time yet.

I could, of course, be completely wrong, as I often am.

*edit* Also - what Polo said. That too. Which wasn't there when I started this.


--------------------
Half Iago. Half Fu Manchu. All bastard.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
little_bear
post Apr 3 2005, 10:50 AM
Post #22


I could have written a short novel by this point
************

Group: Banned
Posts: 1,748
Joined: 19-October 04
From: Shropshire, UK.
Member No.: 1,378
Gender: Male



QUOTE (Quoth(The Raven) @ Apr 3 2005, 07:51 AM)
I'm glad that the man has finally gotten the peace he deserves... I'm against suffering of any kind.  Death is highly misunderstood, in this regard.  We look on it as the worst thing that can happen, but it can be a form of healing, as well.  Death is a release, not a punishment.

As for the Catholic church... What can I say about an institution that persecuted a scientist (Galileo), for telling the truth, then waits nearly a thousand years before admitting that it "May" have made a mistake?  The Catholic church has always been behind the rest of the world, and will always be, I think.

And, how can they justify having the head of the church living in luxury, when so many of their followers are poor, and/or dying, when a little cash flow could remedy that state of affairs?  It's one of the oldest pyramid schemes in existance, to my way of thinking...
*

I totally 110% agree.

Another thing that bugs me about the Catholic church are the instances of child abuse that is committed by it's priests. Rather than opening coming out and admitting they had a problem with it, they merely swept the whole affair under the carpet. I hear they sent child abusers off to 'camps' where they could stay, and when the whole thing had blown over, return them to a different parish.

Plus, another thing that, for me, is important was that he was merely a man. Yet some people appear to treat him as though he was a demi-god.


--------------------
People should not be afraid of their governments, governments should be afraid of their people.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
CommieBastard
post Apr 3 2005, 10:53 AM
Post #23


Remorseless posting machine
*************

Group: Moderators
Posts: 5,749
Joined: 19-July 03
From: Bloody London
Member No.: 466
Gender: Male



QUOTE (Polocrunch @ Apr 3 2005, 11:40 AM)
All (or most) of the current Cardinals were appointed by JPII and are likely to hold similarly conservative opinions to him.
*


93% of the Cardinals of voting age (a Cardinal must be below the age of 80 to vote for the papacy, a rule introduced by JP2 himself) were appointed by him.


--------------------
Every sort of expert knowledge and every inquiry, and similarly every action and undertaking, seems to seek some good. Because of that, people are right to affirm that the good is 'that which all things seek'...
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
believe
post Apr 3 2005, 11:19 AM
Post #24


the token conservative
*********

Group: Established Members
Posts: 702
Joined: 16-January 05
From: A castle in the sky.
Member No.: 1,594
Gender: Female



QUOTE
Problem is, for the Church leaders to live in luxury is actually supported Biblically.


Er, Commie.. you don't see that quote as being wildly out of context? The difference would be giving a gift of love towards say, the Son of God before He died horribly.. and a bunch of old men living in luxury.

Jesus repeatedly gave to the poor, had people give up everything to the poor to follow Him and so on throughout the NT, since we're quoting. While there's a lot to pick on about organized religion, I'm really not seeing the connection between that and the current Catholic Church. One's still living and one was a single gesture of grief and guilt.

I don't want the Church to suddenly abandon scripture. However, I will be naively optimistic and hope that they can start to move on towards dealing with modern issues and concerns. A little reality can be helpful, I hear. dry.gif

Edit-

Tarantio:
QUOTE
I never did get the positive message in that. It basically sounds like jee whiz saying that he's more important than the poor because he's about to kick the bucket, and hence implies that their deaths, and as such their lives, are inconsequential. Nice coming from a man who was the "hope of all humanity"... saviour? more like saver...


Well, if we look at the gospels, Jesus showed great concern for the poor over and over. Its possible that he could have abandoned all that, but I'm not sure one quote qualifies as evidence of such. In this particular case, its also worth noting who's asking the question and thats its specifically said that he asked out of greed and not concern. Jesus was with Judas for years as they traveled across Judea/Israel. If Judas was greedy, there were likely hints of it before this and that would certainly influence the answer one might give to said person.

There's also a difference, I'd agrue between atonement/funeral and so on gifts and random luxury. At least in the heart of the giver.


--------------------
Mr.Teapot is my e-daddy, Jaq is my e-sister and Vic is my e-husband! syuu is our e-daughter.

Pit Bulls & BSL Urban Legends Fight BSL

We must always fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil that we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men.
- The Boondock Saints


Ange is the devil on my shoulder.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
CommieBastard
post Apr 3 2005, 11:26 AM
Post #25


Remorseless posting machine
*************

Group: Moderators
Posts: 5,749
Joined: 19-July 03
From: Bloody London
Member No.: 466
Gender: Male



Since the Pope is meant to be Christ's representative on Earth, I don't really see a huge leap, no...


--------------------
Every sort of expert knowledge and every inquiry, and similarly every action and undertaking, seems to seek some good. Because of that, people are right to affirm that the good is 'that which all things seek'...
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

4 Pages V   1 2 3 > » 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 19th December 2014 - 07:56 AM
Use these links if you're going to shop at Amazon and a percentage of what you spend goes towards helping this site!