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> Hurricane Katrina
CommieBastard
post Sep 3 2005, 07:47 PM
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I wanted to make another thread for this, because my point wasn't really relevant to the other one. My point is that this disaster has been so catastrophically mismanaged that so many people need to be fired (or possibly imprisoned, or shot) as a punishment for allowing it to happen that it's not even funny.

I've heard people say "this is an environmental disaster, it's not a political issue". It's political as hell. I'm gathering a little compendium of failures, idiocies, and horrific neglect. In no particular order:

The Red Cross is banned from entering New Orleans. Highly questionable.

The FEMA official in charge got his job through nepotism, has no relevant experience, and was in fact fired from his previous job overseeing horse shows. There's a guy you want looking after you.

The same lovely gentleman blames the people who didn't get out. Because absolutely everybody, no matter how poor they are, or how elderly or infirm, or whether they've got a car, everyone is perfectly capable of leaving their home for an indefinite amount of time.

But wait, these dispossessed folk could always get a Greyhound out of there, couldn't they? Well, sure, except that they closed the Greyhound station on Saturday. It's almost as if somebody didn't much care.

"In addition to Guard help, the federal government could have activated, but did not, a major air support plan under a pre-existing contract with airlines. The program, called Civilian Reserve Air Fleet, lets the government quickly put private cargo and passenger planes into service." No comment.

The IEM, the company to whom the job of protecting New Orleans from hurricanes was delegated, is suddenly trying to hide the fact that it ever had that job. What on Earth could they be trying to hide?

But in the face of all this, the President sees a ray of light. I'll quote:

QUOTE
The good news is -- and it's hard for some to see it now -- that out of this chaos is going to come a fantastic Gulf Coast, like it was before. Out of the rubbles of Trent Lott's house -- he's lost his entire house -- there's going to be a fantastic house. And I'm looking forward to sitting on the porch. (Laughter.)


What's that you say? You can't afford to just rebuild your house from scratch then invite the President over for tea? Huh. Sucks to be you, I guess.

Comments, discussion and contributions appreciated.


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{Gothic Angel}
post Sep 3 2005, 08:30 PM
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QUOTE
Acess to New Orleans is controlled by the National Guard and local authorities and while we are in constant contact with them, we simply cannot enter New Orleans against their orders.


Whoa whoa whoa... The RC have actually been forbidden to enter the city? Why? What idiot thought that one up?


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CommieBastard
post Sep 3 2005, 10:44 PM
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It's from a clearly biased source, so take it with a pinch of salt, but here's more insight into the madness.


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CommieBastard
post Sep 3 2005, 11:29 PM
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Ah, and here's another gem showing how much the President truly cares about New Orleans: he faked a levee repair to get a good photo opportunity.


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Kitty
post Sep 4 2005, 02:19 AM
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Totally irrelivent but it's been bugging the hell out of me:

Are people suddenly double posting or are certain people deleating their posts?

/spam


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CommieBastard
post Sep 4 2005, 07:22 AM
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I did double post, to add new information to the thread. Ordinary users cannot delete their posts.

edit: the mercenaries have arrived.


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markslut
post Sep 4 2005, 01:07 PM
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http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Tempers_flare_...Orleans_tragedy

4th paragraph down - I can't beleive what I'm reading

QUOTE
not all of the coverage has been concerned with the failures at the federal or state level. The American Family Association's Agape Press published praise for the hurricane's destruction as an instrument of God's mercy, in that it "wiped out rampant sin". Rev. Bill Shanks, pastor of New Covenant Fellowship of New Orleans, said "God simply, I believe, in His mercy purged all of that stuff out of there -- and now we're going to start over again." “New Orleans now is abortion free. New Orleans now is Mardi Gras free. New Orleans now is free of Southern Decadence and the sodomites, the witchcraft workers, false religion -- it's free of all of those things now," Shanks says.


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mooooooooooopo
post Sep 4 2005, 02:30 PM
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QUOTE (CommieBastard @ Sep 4 2005, 08:22 AM)
I did double post, to add new information to the thread. Ordinary users cannot delete their posts.

edit: the mercenaries have arrived.
*


Off topic, but I believe the delete button was recently enabled for everyone.

I definitely see it and have used it before.


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sjbbandgeek
post Sep 4 2005, 06:29 PM
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I highly suggest that if you do donate anyhting, give it to the salvation army. They are actually helping people in the area. The Red cross does have people in Louisianna, but those are mostly "administration buildings"
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Moosh
post Sep 4 2005, 07:12 PM
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QUOTE (moop @ Sep 4 2005, 02:30 PM)
QUOTE (CommieBastard @ Sep 4 2005, 08:22 AM)
I did double post, to add new information to the thread. Ordinary users cannot delete their posts.

edit: the mercenaries have arrived.
*


Off topic, but I believe the delete button was recently enabled for everyone.

I definitely see it and have used it before.
*



Ordinary users can delete their own posts but not those of other users. Mods and Admins can obviously delete any posts.

I don't have time to read all the links now but when I do, I'll post something more on topic.


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Astarael
post Sep 4 2005, 08:07 PM
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This entire situation has just erupted into insane political ranting on all sides. Lack of aid is blamed on racism, government hatred for the poor, and a whole list of other reasons that no one can verify. Every organization is pointing fingers somewhere else and aid is being distributed in patchy waves due to a complete breakdown in organization. Some people simply couldn't get away in time and have to steal a little to keep themselves alive. Others are having some sick fun destroying things, stealing things from every store in sight, killing others, and raping the defenseless. The people who need aid are not getting because the people who don't want law and order restored are shotting a helicopters and people who try to get in and help. Everything has gone completely to hell down there and too many people are more worried about balming everyone else than helping. I hope that things will be straightened out soon, but I'm not too sure that they will, based on the way everyone has been reacting. It's really quite depressing.


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Tarantio
post Sep 4 2005, 10:53 PM
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I can almost understand about the Red Cross not being allowed in to the city. They are civilian volunteers and there is obviously danger remaining that the National Guard would not have the authority to allow them to be subject to on their own. That said, the RC have been operating in WARZONES for most of their existence, under military escort. Why aren't they allowed into what is so obviously being treated as one? The government fears for their lives? What about the civilians already there? If this is bad management issues then its the worst I've ever seen or heard of in all of my experience, probably in all of history, and if, like that site you linked to, commie, is right and there is a diabolical purpose to this madness then it is one of the most evil undertakings of mankind's existence. Either way the administration involved at all levels is accountable for this, whether through blame or negligence. The entire bloody american government should be strung up for this travesty, no exceptions.

I officially change my opinion on whether or not we, and other countries and organisations should be providing aid. I previously upheld that if the american government wasn't doing enough then we should step in. I now believe that we should be stepping in and stopping the american government from trying to help in the first place. This is not a job for amateur politicians and bloodthirsty warmongerers. After the responses shown by the emergency services at 9/11, America has shamed itself over this horrid occurence.


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CommieBastard
post Sep 4 2005, 11:36 PM
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Tara: the rationale given for not allowing the RC (or most other aid) into NO was that it would encourage people to stay. Um.

edit: And, yes, I'm now aware that the rules have been changed to let people delete their own posts. That usen't to be the case, and I got confused.


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CommieBastard
post Sep 6 2005, 10:47 AM
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Update: Meet the Press, Sept 4. I'll quote relevant portions:

QUOTE
Let me give you just three quick examples.  We had Wal-Mart deliver three trucks of water, trailer trucks of water.  FEMA turned them back.  They said we didn't need them.  This was a week ago.  FEMA--we had 1,000 gallons of diesel fuel on a Coast Guard vessel docked in my parish.  The Coast Guard said, "Come get the fuel right away."  When we got there with our trucks, they got a word.  "FEMA says don't give you the fuel."  Yesterday--yesterday--FEMA comes in and cuts all of our emergency communication lines.  They cut them without notice.  Our sheriff, Harry Lee, goes back in, he reconnects the line. He posts armed guards on our line and says, "No one is getting near these lines."  Sheriff Harry Lee said that if America--American government would have responded like Wal-Mart has responded, we wouldn't be in this crisis.


So, FEMA refuses water and fuel to survivors, then cuts off their emergency communication lines. Lovely.

QUOTE
And I want to give you one last story and I'll shut up and let you tell me whatever you want to tell me.  The guy who runs this building I'm in, emergency management, he's responsible for everything.  His mother was trapped in St. Bernard nursing home and every day she called him and said, "Are you coming, son?  Is somebody coming?"  And he said, "Yeah, Mama, somebody's coming to get you.  Somebody's coming to get you on Tuesday. Somebody's coming to get you on Wednesday.  Somebody's coming to get you on Thursday.  Somebody's coming to get you on Friday."  And she drowned Friday night.  She drowned Friday night.

MR. RUSSERT:  Mr. President...

MR. BROUSSARD:  Nobody's coming to get us.  Nobody's coming to get us.  The secretary has promised.  Everybody's promised.  They've had press conferences. I'm sick of the press conferences.  For God sakes, shut up and send us somebody.


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Calantyr
post Sep 6 2005, 06:17 PM
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Is anyone else annoyed at the way mercenaries are referred to as 'Army Contractors' in Afghanistan, Iraq, and New Orleans?

Just say it like it is, paid killers. The job isn't exactly politically correct, don't decieve people with a PC name either.

For crying out loud, it makes them sound like construction workers!

Edit: Yup, Commie. No one likes FEMA. They are experts at red tape and wasting money, but no good in a crisis situation.

I can understand things being done 'by the book' for efficient rescue. However when the rulkes and regulations stop anyting getting done whatsoever... some people just need a kick in the arse.


Quick note, the head of Homeland Security got his job after being fired for incompetance at another post. It's great to know that your future is in such able hands.


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CommieBastard
post Sep 6 2005, 06:48 PM
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But apparently, if you evacuated? Everything's just spiffy for you! So sayeth Barbara Bush, and I think I see where the current President gets it.

edit: An open letter to the President

I quote:

QUOTE
In a nationally televised interview Thursday night, [FEMA director Michael Brown] said his agency hadn’t known until that day that thousands of storm victims were stranded at the Ernest N. Morial Convention Center. He gave another nationally televised interview the next morning and said, "We’ve provided food to the people at the Convention Center so that they’ve gotten at least one, if not two meals, every single day."

Lies don’t get more bald-faced than that, Mr. President.

Yet, when you met with Mr. Brown Friday morning, you told him, "You’re doing a heck of a job."

That’s unbelievable.


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Calantyr
post Sep 6 2005, 07:08 PM
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Yup... the incompetance and sheer callousness seems to permeate the entire upper echelons dealing with this catastrophy. From crooked NO politicians who ensured that if something went wrong it would be spectacular, to FEMA, to the President and First Lady.

In places it is hard to see how they could have screwed up more if they tried.

But at least they all got some good airtime and photo opportunities.


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CommieBastard
post Sep 6 2005, 07:24 PM
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Science fiction author Arthur C. Clarke proposed three laws of technology, the third of which was Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

I saw today somebody suggesting that a corruption of this law is appropriate for the Katrina situation: Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.

That is, where the people who unquestionably had both the power and the responsibility to prevent this failed to, it is appropriate to treat them as if they purposely orchestrated it, the two situations being morally distinguishable.

Oh, and another update: they absolutely knew what was going to happen.


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CommieBastard
post Sep 6 2005, 11:05 PM
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Wow. Not only did Bush's visit to NO not help a damn thing, it actually made things worse. From here:

QUOTE
In reporting on President Bush's September 2 visit to New Orleans to survey damage caused by Hurricane Katrina, most national media outlets* have ignored reports that helicopter flights were banned for the duration of Bush's stay, stalling relief efforts and preventing sick and injured survivors from being airlifted to treatment centers.

Citing Rep. Charlie Melancon's (D-LA) chief of staff, a September 3 New Orleans Times-Picayune article reported that crews were unable to deliver three tons of food for hurricane survivors in Louisiana's St. Bernard Parish and Algiers Point on September 2, as "air traffic was halted because of President Bush's visit to New Orleans." The food, secured by Melancon and Bob Odom, Louisiana's agriculture commissioner, "baked in the afternoon sun as Bush surveyed damage across southeast Louisiana," according to the Times-Picayune.


Emphasis mine.


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little_bear
post Sep 7 2005, 12:04 AM
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Please, everyone, watch this video.

I couldn't believe my ears at first. But, yes, that's exactly what he says.


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Calantyr
post Sep 7 2005, 12:41 AM
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Wait... isn't Bush the head of an investigation into why the relief/rescue efforts were so inefficient/rubbish? If he himself is a contributing factor...

Isn't that like allowing a suspect to be their own interrogator?

Bloody hell. They are just going to push paper around for 6 months then say there were errors, but it was no ones fault. Damnit.

Edit: Oh.....kay....

That news reporter could have phrased that a bit better. blink.gif


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pgrmdave
post Sep 7 2005, 02:40 AM
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Did he just say...

I mean...

no, he couldn't have...please tell me he didn't say that these people are "so poor, and so black"


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Overfriendly_Kit...
post Sep 7 2005, 03:23 AM
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I'd just like to thank Commie for this thread and for continuing to post links to relevant sites.

You're doing a good job, please keep it up.
______

Back on topic.

The poor have been hit the hardest - they tend not to have insurance on their homes. What are they going to get out of this?

Haliburton have already been called in with the repair clean up - so will we see Iraq style corruption, grand scale fraud, incompetence and delay after delay?

Much of the area hit has been declared uninhabitable, will this prove to be uninhabitable becase it's too expensive to pay to clean up just to give it to some poor black family? If the mainly black poor areas are leveled and sold to developers will we see uninhabitable land suddenly becoming prime real estate?

As mentioned above, Gee Dubya heading an enquiry where as Commander in Chief the buck might be expected to stop with him. Not much chance of impartiality there then?


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little_bear
post Sep 7 2005, 04:52 AM
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QUOTE (pgrmdave @ Sep 7 2005, 03:40 AM)
Did he just say...

I mean...

no, he couldn't have...please tell me he didn't say that these people are "so poor, and so black"
*

Yup, that's exactly what I heard.


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CommieBastard
post Sep 7 2005, 08:09 AM
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While Dubya will be heading an investigation, Congress is going to have its own one, so there's still a chance he'll get whatever blame's coming to him.

My computer's not playing that file - can somebody post a transcript?


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